Amy Bradley’s brother returns to Untold for exclusive update on her case

0:00 you know, the first several weeks I I I had trouble sleeping. I couldn't fall asleep. My mind wouldn't stop. That that sense has improved a lot. Um uh but yeah, it's um been very emotional. I think we haven't had as much hope as we have now in a long, long time. >> It's been a whirlwind few months for Brad Bradley. Back in July, the Chesterfield man sat down with us to talk about the mysterious disappearance of his sister [music] aboard a cruise ship in 1998. Ever since the release of a Netflix docu series about Amy Bradley, [music] the family has been bombarded with tips, sympathy, and offers to help, but also some harassment. [music] Now,

0:46 Brad is back in the untold studio to provide an exclusive update on what has developed since he joined us last. Brad, thanks for coming back. >> Yes, ma'am. Thank you for having me back. >> How you doing? >> I'm all right. A little tired. Been a long day. And usually I think our first interview was uh I wasn't at work, so I was a little bit more refreshed feeling, but uh I'm doing all right, you know. >> Yeah, you're juggling a lot of things. >> So So the documentary and all of the interviews that have followed have definitely stirred up a lot of conversation slash tips. Um tell us what that's been like. um what's the volume of of kind of dialogue on this now? >> Well, the volume uh of tips is is a bit overwhelming. It has, you know, there's

1:32 I I haven't counted them, but there's between the um the email tip line and the phone line. I mean, it's thousands and thousands um from everywhere. And we literally have two maybe three people uh manning all of those things and separating them into subcategories and important versus not and all that kind of thing. So um you know there's a lot that's happened. There's a lot of things that along the way through social media, you know, people bringing up things or sending pictures or you know different questions that have since been ruled out. Um, and there's a lot of things that are going on right now um that I can't speak on directly, but um we're

2:19 working on several different things that are credible enough to need to follow out, >> be investigated. Yeah. um prior to this documentary airing and you having these conversations? I mean, how can you compare the level of, you know, conversations in your day that involved Amy from then to now? I mean, are you sort of constantly on the phone, constantly taking text messages? I mean, it's >> Yeah, >> it's kind of like, are you getting bombarded? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Um, just to give you an example, um, today, [snorts] um, you know, aside from seeing patients all day and working, um, since, you know, 7 o'clock this morning, um, I've been on

3:05 the phone with, uh, an ABC Hulu producer who, um, is requesting a new documentary style show um, in short order. >> So, they're um, we're dealing with that. Um, I spoke with the um, director of external affairs with the uh, attorney general Jason Miis's office today. I spoke to my mom about four or five different things that are happening today. I spoke to an individual who um, um, we are working with now um, in a different capacity as far as um, you know, an outside authority um, that uh, I can't speak on uh, here. Uh, and um, so yeah, there's been I've had about

3:54 five different things. I spoke with uh, Representative Maguire's uh, uh, aid um, just before I showed up here today about um, some help that he's planning to give us and um, >> yeah, I mean, you're running out of hours in a day. >> Yeah. [snorts] Do you feel good about that? >> I do. I feel really good about it. um you know anything that all those things I mentioned you know a year ago none of it would be true and we'd be you know just going about life not not having a whole lot going on but the fact that the interest now I guess we're approaching we're three and a half months out from the show having gone uh come out and um you know I still feel like we're picking

4:39 up momentum um not so much with you know social media uh um interest and engagement. I mean, that has kind of >> simmered a little bit, >> simmered down a little bit, thankfully. Um you know, because that was probably one of the more overwhelming aspects of what I've been dealing with over the past few months. [snorts] Um but yeah, it's um it's very encouraging and exciting and um you know, we have a lot of uh a lot of a lot of different things we're juggling. Uh, and not only me, I mean, I do certain things and I talk to certain people and then we have five or six or seven other people who are juggling different things and um, you know, we're working on uh, rejuvenating and upgrading uh, Amy's website, the Amy

5:27 Bradleyisming.com website. So, that's going to kind of be brought into >> um, you know, up to-date, I would say, into the, you know, 21st century >> uh, with a lot of different uh, um capabilities that the other website doesn't have. Um so it's just a a a list of things that um are all positive. Of course, there's a still that negative side of um the internet specifically where, you know, these certain characters online um are helping on coming after me and my family and just being, you know, antagonistic contrarians to the nth degree. and sympathizing with the uh prime suspects uh

6:12 >> and that kind of thing. So, all that's still going on. We're working on um um finding out who they are. And um >> you know, there's been some suspicion about uh whether these characters are um from the islands or involved with some of the suspects themselves or maybe they are the suspect or so. There's a a lot of lot of talk going on about that and we're working on um >> but that's been consistent that harassment from >> certain [clears throat] online operator. And and there's there's probably >> there's three or four that are that are that stick out to me the most, but there's there's also, you know, several others that um you know, their names have been uh where their uh user

7:00 addresses have been provided to certain people that um you know, I'm hopeful we can find out uh where they're coming from and who they are. M you [clears throat] >> there's been language used you know one of the things um from one of the uh characters online they they made mention of my mom and dad >> um and apparently in Grenada and other Caribbean islands that's a very popular way to say mom and so it's just a couple of little interesting things and >> um so hopefully we uh get to tell everybody who they are shortly. >> Wow that's interesting. Um, talk about we we were just discussing a couple minutes ago. Well, first of all, while we're on the topic of bad actors online,

7:46 uh I know that you've also had to spend considerable time discrediting some of the publications that have been out there recently. >> And that must take a lot of time, too, because I have seen, you know, I I obviously stay in contact with you regularly and ask for updates and then, you know, a couple of times these these articles have actually like caught me off guard. I mean, I've saw it and been like, Brad didn't tell me that, you know, they discovered X, Y, and Z. And then I kind of have to catch myself and, you know, >> I thought the same thing when I read the articles. I'm like, who >> where's nobody told me? Yeah. So, you know, you get excited at the first glance and it's like, >> oh my god, you get award, >> right? Once you get a layer or two down in the article, you realize there's like really nothing, no meat on the bone. But

8:33 like how many times have you had to sort of say to a reporter or someone calling like, "No, that's not true. No, that didn't happen. >> It's got to be a hundred." I mean, and that's that's within the past two weeks. >> Um there was an order an article that came out in uh um the Hollywood Reporter and I spoke to the um journalist who put that article out. I asked him who his source was who he he wouldn't share with me and you know I respect that but um there's been some question as to who you know who the heck he's talking to because nobody on our team >> we've asked everybody no and every you know unless we got a mole in the group that's trying to stir up some trouble nobody knows anything about it um you

9:21 know so there was some mention of um uh the story where Elizabeth Lewis who unfortunately we still have not yet been able to find. She's the third eyewitness who testified in the grand jury that um she saw Amy in yellow come off the elevator from inside the Viking lounge. And uh later, I think it was either the following day or the day after Amy's disappearance, she was back in there, a young girl came out from behind the bar yelling, "Senorita kidnap." M >> and then the bartender who um we have since found and interviewed who denies everything basically forced her back behind the bar away from you know where Elizabeth Lewis was

10:06 apparently sitting. So this new article says that that girl has come forward and has spoken to investigators. I don't know who's investigators um because we don't know who she is. We don't know where she is. don't I don't I don't don't think there's any truth to it and I don't we still don't know where it came from. >> Um interestingly there was an AI generated YouTube video. Now the reporter denies ever having seen the video but the claims in his article um which came out the Monday preceding his Thursday article um online which we already had to refute repeatedly. Uh I kind of echoed the same claims in that video. So, I don't know. I haven't heard from the guy since, but yeah, that there was a claim in there about that. There's

10:51 another claim about um Amy having children or a child. And I, you know, I' I'd have to say that's purely speculative and and unsubstantiated for sure, unless that someone knows something I don't. >> Um and there was another piece of information about an IP hit um uh that I would rather not have been made public. Um, and I won't repeat it again here, but that there is some truth to that. Um, but I'll leave that there. >> Um, there's another article that came out a couple days ago. Um, and I think again it was an AI generated thing. Um, probably prompted by somebody who doesn't have anything better to do. um that says that there

11:38 was a um another girl who had been trafficked, who had spent some time with Amy who has come forward and had Amy's silver college ring from Longwood in a box that Amy had given to her and all this stuff. And it goes on to claim my parents are different ages than they are, much older. and um and it goes as far as to say my parents and our attorney have come out and made a statement not true. >> So, you know, so it's it's it's a lot of time online, >> not only on my platforms on like X and Tik Tok, but on our Facebook groups and on Instagram pages that other people run. It's just, you know, it it creates a lot of excitement which I think

12:23 >> um is a good thing because it renew it sparks a lot of conversation and gets people >> kind of pulled back into it where there you know they may have fallen away had nothing come about. So, I think there's there's some silver lining to those kinds of things um as far as maintaining people's interest. And um I think the most encouraging thing is that when something like that happens, the amount of response that it gets kind of tells us how interested people still are even. >> A little bit of a litmus test on Yeah. because it really kind of it generates a lot of traffic and you know it's unfortunate because it it detracts from our ongoing efforts. It takes a lot of time um and it's very misleading you

13:10 know misinformation that you know gets a lot of people fooled. >> Right. Well, inversely there have been some things that have popped up um that that you've discovered since the documentary. Um, one of which involves an interview that we did here on the podcast as well with a guy named Chris Fenwick, who was the one who the videographer editor who shot the Well, he wasn't a videographer. He was an editor. He's very clear on that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to [laughter] get a phone call. I'm going to get a phone call. Chris, I know you're calling me. Um, yes, he's an editor. Um >> but he um yes he [clears throat] he had said on in our interview he had talked about um deleted footage of Amy

13:57 >> um and sort of enlighten us on what's come out on that. >> Yeah. So um so Chris Fenwick is the video editor who was on the boat. His videographer Bob was the one who shot the footage of Amy and Yellow dancing in the Viking lounge that morning. um he did an interview with you and and he's documented I don't know if he showed you his written explanation of events you know from way back but ever since um Amy's disappearance he has thought and so have we because I think of the story that he's told us that um the ship's video edi editor Steve Smith was asked by ship security to scrub images any images of Amy from his tapes.

14:45 >> Mhm. >> Um, in my opinion, so as not to show her with any crew members um that might um cause some liability problems. Now, Chris Fenwick since located Steve Smith and they've had some back and forth and I've got all the screenshots, >> which is fascinating because when we talked to him, he hadn't he didn't know. I remember we showed his picture and said if anybody seen him I I can share with you their conversations. So, >> um, >> and to find someone named Steve Smith, how did he do that? >> I don't know. I don't know. I guess >> I mean, I know how he did that. He He is a dog with a bone, that guy. He'll Yeah. >> So, he got in touch with Steve Smith and through their conversations and I think Chris kind of slowplayed it a little bit instead of just like jumping on the bone.

15:30 But he eventually got to bring up, "Hey, you know, do you remember when I came into your room that morning and you were editing footage and you know, you told me that you had been asked to remove um any footage of Amy from your tapes?" He was like, "Yeah, yeah, I remember that." Um and he said some Chris said something about security and Steve said, "Oh, no. It wasn't security. It was everybody's favorite cruise director." Mhm. >> And um since we found that out, I I went on my social media platforms on X um and called him out and you know gave him an opportunity to give an explanation as to why that would be and haven't heard anything from him. We've been unable to contact him after multiple attempts with

16:16 no responses. Mhm. >> Um but yeah, so it apparently Steve Smith never spoke to security, but that's one interesting piece um uh that has come out since we last spoke. >> Yep. And then Oscar Alexander, Yellow's roommate. We've had some development there too. >> Yeah. So, um after our interview, and I I can I'll play it for you later. Oscar Alexander was Alistair Douglas or Yellow's roommate on the cruise. And um he was quiet as a church mouse for 27 years. Never heard anything from him. And all of a sudden um I guess several months probably six or eight months after Yellow's interview with James Rener where Yellow um gives many

17:04 provably false statements and timelines and all that kind of thing. Oscar decided um or Yellow and Oscar together decided it would be a good idea for him to come out and make a statement. And in his statement, it's a it's not a it's not a full interview like Yellow's is. It's a threeinut clip on YouTube. There's um Oscar Alexander's profile picture from his Facebook page. It's not a video of him speaking. So, we can't confirm 100% it was actually him. That's weird. >> I assume it was. >> Yeah. And I don't know why James Rener didn't include his entire interview. [clears throat] >> So Oscar says that um in line with what Yellow says that you know that Amy and Yellow met that night, they talked a

17:50 little bit. Amy came up and I came up and we requested some songs and all true. Um and at after their set was over around midnight, they packed up their things and um went back to the room. Um, yellow uh Oscar states that they were both in their room by one o'clock and um and that uh and which we know isn't true. I mean, we have >> from the key card, right? >> Yeah. Yellow's key card data shows that he goes into his room at uh at 3:35, same time as I did, right? >> Um and Yellow told me the following morning that I was with her until 3:30. Now he says he's in his room at 1 o'clock. >> Yeah. Um, Oscar says that they were also in their room at 1:00, but that security

18:35 knocked on their cabin door uh between somewhere between 3 and 4:00 a.m. to search the room for Amy. And you know, obviously Amy wasn't reported missing until after 7 a.m. So, um, you know, another provably false claim >> um that contradicts what Yellow said. If you remember, Yellow said that the hotel manager called his room at 7 a.m. Never made any mention of security knocking on their door, which is a pretty significant event. You you probably wouldn't leave out of >> Sure. >> your own interview if you were telling the story. And we since found in uh in some of the security report pieces that we have that um the uh ship's chief

19:21 security officer um did not inform the hotel manager until 9:00 a.m. So I don't know how he calls Yellow two hours earlier and then something like 12 or you know some years ago Yellow gave an interview for CNN and he says that you know they called him at six o'clock in the morning. You know there's times all over the place and you know I've had times off, you know, 15, 20 minutes here or there, and I I think that's fine, but um yeah, Yellow and Oscar should have talked it through a little more before they, >> you know, decided to speak publicly, I think. >> Um and then lastly, uh Barbados, tell me about what's what's going on there. Um, so we have some help, some people in

20:07 Barbados and um, they've been uh, extremely helpful tracking down leads, ruling things out, checking out places and people and things that have been sent to us and and all of that kind of thing. So, um, you know, that's still ongoing. Um there's a couple of things that they are actually actively working on um that I won't go into detail about, but uh Barbados continues to be kind of I guess on the forefront of interest, >> you know, although, you know, who knows if Amy's still out there where she is. I mean there's so many islands and so many unnamed islands and different places and you know um we still get hit my family about why don't we move down there and you know where

20:54 where are we going to go >> right >> you know I don't know whether to go to Barbados or Kurissau or Aruba or Grenada or St. Lucia or St. Martin or Venezuela, right? You you pick where where you want us to live and we'll we'll start there, I guess. >> Um yeah, but there's um >> you know, still some things going on in Barbados that we're working on. And um >> you know, hopefully I I think I I still maintain that uh the only the only way we get to Amy or to what happened to her is if someone comes forward. You know, someone I go back to somebody knows something. I [snorts] think several people know something and >> um I I I'm hoping that if the conversation can continue on social media and

21:42 otherwise and people continue to share and ask questions and repost, you know, we're potentially one reshare away from it reaching the right person that hasn't, >> you know, somehow seen or heard of uh what's going on here recently. So, uh we're we're still dependent on that. um on that person or those people to come forward and and do the right thing. >> It seems that the pressure is like you said mounting which um you know like you said if there is something to be to be released that that pressure is what you need to get it >> to come out. >> I hope it's the right way to go about it you know. >> Yeah. Um, some people have questioned

22:27 whether or not it's too much pressure and if Amy were still out there, the people >> um that you know are around her would >> lock down >> do something about it and it might you know might not be >> a good thing but at this point we don't you know the spotlight is on. We don't have any choice at this point. So >> yeah, the spotlight is certainly on. Um well that is a good a good point to take a break. We're going to do that and we'll be right back. [music] If you're enjoying Untold, like and subscribe on YouTube. You can also [music] rate and follow us on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Now, from a legal, legislative, you know, um sort of actionable

23:14 um on the government side of things, you've been dealing with the federal government and you've been dealing with the state government. So, let's um talk about your sort of time in Washington and what you guys have been working on there. >> Yeah. [clears throat] So, um on September 4th, we went up to DC with our team and met with uh Senator Grassley's um team. um I don't know whether to call them his attorneys or his staffers or what you call them but you know we met with uh his people >> and presented um our case with all the certain asks that we are you know hopeful to uh achieve >> um and left that meeting feeling very encouraged um much more so than when we

24:00 walked into that room >> um since then um Grassley's team has uh sent uh internal communications to the federal level um uh I believe and they you know they haven't shared with us because it's I guess a confidential matter to them [snorts] what exactly the letter said or who exactly it went to but I believe it was to you know DOJ officials, FBI officials um and DHS officials or HSI and you know the ask being that our family has long requested access to the FBI case files that we've never been privy to because we feel like it would um not

24:45 only fill in some of our gaps um but it would show us, you know, what they have done and what they never did, >> right? >> Um so we're hopeful that Grassly's team's efforts will result in some action there. Do they have to technically close the case in order to give you the file? >> I don't know. I mean, we've requested that if that is required, then do so. >> Then close the case and give us file and then we could reopen it, right? >> Yeah. And I know, you know, I don't think we're going to get access to the grand jury testimony. Um um although we've since been in touch with the assistant US attorney who called that grand jury and um [clears throat] uh spoken to him about kind of the same thing is that you know it's very

25:31 difficult. I think the judge that presided himself um would be the one who could release those, but I I'm not hopeful that that's going to come out. >> Have you ever seen anything from that file? >> No. The only thing I've seen from the FBI are basically email communications that pertain to information that my mom or dad provided them. Mhm. >> So, in response to stuff that came from our side, um there'd be some back and forth about it, >> but we don't we don't know, >> you know, essentially, we don't have a list of people they questioned or a list of people they polygraphed or a list of places that they've been to or or we don't we don't know. Um >> and they claim the case is still open

26:17 because >> don't know. >> Okay. because there's not anyone actively investigating from the FBI. >> Don't know. You know, again, they don't communicate with us. So, we we >> recently received an email, I think a couple of days ago, um from the lead agent um requesting, now this is 98 days after we last spoke. >> Um when there was supposed to be a meeting set up in August, that never happened. and much has, you know, this been our experience over the years as um a lack of communication and follow through from and I'm I'm not single out singling out the FBI as an agency as a whole, but certainly I think the um the

27:02 agents that have been in charge of our case um have been a disappointment to us >> and may and maybe they've done more to be fair than we know about and we're we're unfair. fairly, you know, accusing them of not doing what they should have done. Maybe they did and but they just, you know, have never told us anything. Um, there's a new agent that's going to be assigned to the case. Um, because Agent Sheridan got a promotion of some sort. Um, you remember the the two uh African-American >> I don't even know if they're American, two black ladies that Amy was talking to in the matching uniforms on the boat the night before. >> Yes. So, we were previously told by an FBI agent named Carrie Glycer that we know who those women are. They refused

27:49 to ever tell us who they were. The new agent, when they were recently um having a conversation with our investigator, um said what to black women. >> So, you know, you have a a new agent coming in that has no idea 27 years worth of information he's got to learn. Um, and I guess that would be true if a new, you know, a new team took the case anyway. Everybody would have to kind of start from the beginning. And we hope that that's, you know, something that's going to happen. >> Mhm. >> Um, I >> find it interesting that they're putting a new agent on it. Um, I mean, why? Because, well, I know the one got promoted, but if they're not actively investigating >> and I don't and again,

28:34 >> they might, >> maybe they are. They just don't tell us anything. So, >> you know, to to answer your first question, I don't know whether or not our access to the files is predicated on the case being closed. >> If we get access to the files without the case being closed, I'm I'm sure they'd be heavily redacted, >> you know, and we'd be like, "Well, thanks. We can't even see what >> Yeah. Just as a journalist, I know trying to get things, you know, through open records that are any type of case file that's still pending um is almost always a no. >> And our foyer requests have been denied and >> appealed and and so forth. So >> um and I don't know why the case if they're not doing anything. They're certainly not reintrogating Yellow and Oscar.

29:20 >> They're certainly not traveling to Grenada. um or if again if they are I guess I have to continue to be fair. Um we just don't know about it. Um but people a lot of people online have speculated that perhaps the case is is kept in an open status to prevent us from having access to the files [clears throat] >> for whatever reason that might be >> to maybe find out what they didn't do >> right >> that they should have done. But I don't I don't know. certainly helped from an investigative standpoint though for I can see your perspective of you know okay well now we know we can cross this off the list as you know not a possibility and they never explored this that is a possibility you know what I mean like how how are you to know >> what's been done um or like where to

30:07 start you know what I mean like where where's a good place to start >> um so um there's that effort ongoing on the federal level you've spoke spoken additionally with the attorney general's office here in Virginia. >> Yeah, we actually met first with um Winom Seir, Lieutenant Governor Winom Sears office. Um she actually was the only one out of everyone we've spoken to that reached out to us >> offering her help. So we um had a meeting with her and her team. um they um essentially said that from a state level um they recommended that we go federal to federal. So, they've recommended we get in touch with Representative Maguire, >> who we since have um I spoke to his

30:54 >> assistant uh this afternoon, and they're >> um considering drafting a letter of the same sort to the same type people um as a kind of a multiaceted >> uh multi approach. Yes. Yeah. >> Um >> so, we met with uh Sears um and she was extremely nice. um pointed us in a certain direction but really didn't give us much to go on. Didn't offer to um you know write a letter herself or you know like the other people. Mhm. >> Um uh and the attorney general's office um we met with um deputy attorney general and the director of external affairs with his office and um they are still in

31:42 the process of revising and drafting um a letter to DOJ and FBI requesting similar things. >> Um >> might get more traction after the election. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And that, you know, with with the government shutdown and then the election in Virginia and >> um you know the the letter I think was held up quite a bit um when it was sent to Yncan's uh team and it got kind of stifled in legal counsel and all that kind of stuff. So, that's still not I don't know exactly what's going to happen with all of that, but hopefully um the letter goes out by the end of the week and certainly I would I would expect that if it's going to be delayed

32:27 anymore, it would be after November 4th. >> Um and talk about a little bit about the legislative actions that you are looking at broadly um down the road, the Amy alerts and then also the independent security on chips. >> Yeah. So there's there's there's three main ones in my mind that we'd like to have mandated. Um because we all know that the cruise industry is not going to electively choose to do these things. Um one would be and I think it's common sense um there was a a gal on TikTok that came up with Amy alerts >> and I we I think we spoke about this on our first interview. So very similar to Amber Alerts. So you if a child is missing, everybody's cell phone goes

33:13 off. Um and with the information um and Amy alerts would be on cruise ships. If someone uh goes missing, um every single person on that boat, their cell phone goes off with pictures and up last seen wearing with this person, all this kind of information, right? Because when Amy went missing, um we didn't we not only didn't have that, we had um in my opinion an effort to conceal what had happened from the passengers. >> You know, we were told quote, you know, they wouldn't make an announcement because it would disturb the other passengers. >> You didn't want to wake anyone up. It was early, right? I do remember all that. >> Um so all that kind of stuff. and you know to have some sort of standard operating procedure which the cap

33:59 captain admitted to us they did not have for a missing person at that time. >> Wow. >> Which I find hard to believe. Um >> but to mandate an actual procedure where that ship gets locked in place, gang ways don't go down, nobody gets off and and everybody's made aware of what's happening. A search is performed before anybody's allowed to leave the boat. all that kind of thing. >> Mhm. >> Um, so that Amy alert would be a huge one. There's a petition on change.org that's I think garnered over 20,000 signatures. Should be a million and 20,000 signatures in my opinion. I don't know who doesn't think that's a >> good idea, right? >> Um, so I would encourage everybody to go to change.org or to go to my social

34:47 media X, Tik Tok, the linkree and those uh platforms, the Facebook group, the Instagram page. Um all that information is there. Please sign the petition and we're trying to uh push that through our efforts with Federal and all that kind of stuff ultimately. >> [snorts] >> Um secondly, um you know, we talked a lot about the ship's security, and people don't understand that, um the security on these boats, uh is hired by >> the cruise line. >> The cruise line. >> They're trained by the cruise line. And it's it's long been my opinion that um their main job is to protect the cruise

35:33 line. Um there's a lot of if you look at um there's a podcast out there called my ship story I think and there's a creator on Tik Tok who shares a lot of these podcast clips from ex cruise employees and all [snorts] these kind of people um that shed a lot of light on what went on in the '9s on these cruise ships and the bribery and customs officials and this all this kind of crazy stuff. Um but the security needs to be independent of the cruise line. So there there I I believe there should be uh a mandate or legislation that mandates independent security or independent police >> be on these ships to protect the passengers because I I don't believe

36:19 that that's in the ship security's interest. Mhm. >> Um and then not lastly, but thirdly, I'd say, um you know, not only do you have problems in international waters and jurisdictional issues with sovereign countries that these ships take, you know, not only our citizens, but citizens from other countries to. Um they fly foreign flags. They're headquartered in the United States. >> Yeah. But whether it be um for reasons where they uh can um circumvent taxes or um the United States authorities because whatever ship you're on, whatever flag they fly, you are subject

37:05 to the laws of that country. Um and then there's all kinds of you know again uh red tape and jurisdictional problems with our authorities um being effective in those scenarios. So I believe that any cruise ship that is headquartered in the United States should be forced to fly an American flag. So our authorities have the ability to investigate the crimes which still in large part are not required to be reported by these uh industries. Mhm. >> Um and and there's there needs to be some changes and and they're going to have to be forced on on these companies because they're not going to obviously not going to do it voluntarily. >> Yeah. I mean I I until reporting on this

37:51 story with you had not realized how resistant the cruise line industry is to any changes any I mean >> they are completely resistant to things that are not beneficial to their you know companies. It's really hard. I mean the lobbying >> we spoke to you know another great person you recommended us Jamie. >> Yeah. and she, you know, she kind of went through even just um laws surrounding shared information about ex employees, you know, I mean, she said it's a very common pattern that, you know, some incident happens on one cruise line, the person gets terminated, never charged with anything, but but everybody knows there was something bad that happened and then

38:36 >> they don't have until the next. >> Yeah. 6 months later they're on a different cruise line and they're you know back in the same >> um scenarios with you know the same type of situations. So um but she said you know it is it's powerful it's wellunded it's they've got huge lobbying arm and it's really hard to get those changes through. Yeah, I mean I know and I think it was in your interview >> um where she said that, you know, her and her team um went to Washington, >> they weren't allowed to bring their attorneys, but the cruise lines surely had theirs there. Yeah. >> And they had certain asks like, you know, peeppholes on all the doors. So if someone knocks on your door, you know who's standing on the other side of it. And they said, "Well, no, it's maritime and it's you can't really drill holes in

39:22 the doors and all this stuff." and they requested, you know, four, five, six, seven different things that were all denied for various reasons. And then it turns out that the late Elijah Cummings um passed some legislation that mandated all those changes. >> So again, I think that's that's going to have to happen in this case too um if anything changes. >> Well, I do know that the pressure at least for that purpose, you know, it is useful. I mean I I mean that's when legislation needs to get through, you know, the pressure of and there is certainly um a lot of pressure surrounding this case. So, um you know, we'll we'll see. But yeah, those uh seem like some pretty common sense ideas. >> Um all right, we're at another good

40:08 point to take a break. We're going to come back and do another check-in on where things are with your case in just a sec. [music] >> If you're enjoying Untold, like and subscribe on YouTube. You can also rate and follow us on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, this is now a much more consuming part of your life. Um, I mean, I'm sure you've been always thinking of Amy, but now are actively on a daily basis spending good portion of your day really. Um, talking about her, talking about this. Um, what are you sensing emotionally has happened to you, if anything, by by

40:55 going down this road and by being where you are? Is it has it stirred you in a way? >> Yeah. Um, you know, it's it's weird. Um, since the show came out, it it is very reminiscent of [snorts] the first three months after she disappeared. M >> you know the the reliving and recounting and retelling every single detail trying to get help from all these different entities that [snorts] you know don't seemingly uh help. Um very frustrating. Um there's a feeling, you know, it's hard to say there's a feeling of well there's a feeling of helplessness, you

41:41 know, and we can do all we can do, but I I think, you know, as I've said many times, you somebody out there knows something [snorts] >> and um we're we're largely dependent on that person or those people coming forward and and finally um saying what, you know, telling us what they know. But, you know, it's been a reliving of of the nightmare. Um, you know, people over the course of the many interviews that I've done of, you know, I recall things. You know, you relive it enough and you're like, another piece comes in and oh, I forgot about that. And you know my mom will remind me after like for instance our interview and I said something incorrect and she'll you know tell me you know

42:26 what the real and I'm then I have to next time I do a an interview I'll fix that part and you know we've kind of been putting it together and fine-tuning all the details and that kind of thing. But it's hard to you know the first several weeks I I I had trouble sleeping. I couldn't fall asleep. My mind wouldn't stop. >> That that sense has improved a lot. Um [clears throat] uh but yeah, it's um been very emotional. I think we haven't had as much hope as we have now in a long long time. Um, so >> the negatives that come with it, there's also the positives. And, uh, I don't I I don't know whether the hope is is a real intuitive type of,

43:14 um, thing that family members share or whether it's it's a it's a result of what living without closure for 27 years does to you. Mhm. >> And I I don't know the psychology of that but >> yeah, it's um been a really interesting time. um difficult but but positive and um you know I'm I'm still you know going to be forever grateful this for this what I feel like is one last opportunity >> to to find her or find out what happened or hold somebody responsible or something >> affect some positive change in in regard to not only the cruise lines but you know the the laws that apply to them and

44:01 how that can hopefully lessen the chances this happens to somebody else's daughter or sister and >> yeah, >> you know, so it's a it's a lot of pressure. Um, and I' hope I've done a fair job at it. I do the best I can and I know I've not been perfect um with every detail and everything I've done or said online. I'm a little bit of rage bait um [snorts] out there that I've probably responded to a little more poorly than I should have. Um but you know at some point you kind of reach a limit for people's stupidity. I mean it's um it's hard to it's hard to [snorts] >> be the bigger person in all >> Yeah. >> It's a lot. It's a lot. Um I I wonder you know you were mentioning this

44:47 is both sort of painful and hopeful at the same time. And um you know, I was actually thinking about you recently because um I have a daughter and a son that are 3 years apart and my son is three and he has trouble sleeping and um he has started to go into my daughter's room and fall asleep on the floor in her room and he'll sleep comfortably right there. you know, he'll just take his blanket, he'll go into her bedroom, we'll hear, we have an old house, we'll hear the door creek open, he'll he's three years old. He'll lay down with his blanket and in the next morning we find them um him on the floor here in the bed. We've since pulled out a trundle to be more humane about the situation, but

45:32 I thought of you instantly because I was thinking about, you know, that's that's his safe space next to her. Mh. >> You know, he's scared of the dark or he's scared of waking up alone and he goes there because he's >> safe with her, >> you know, and um >> and I was just thinking I literally thought to myself, I'm like this the powerful connection between siblings um you [clears throat] know, it doesn't go away. You know, it's it's that's >> you know, as vital to you as a parent really. I mean, it's it's when you've grown up with somebody like that. >> Yeah. And, you know, it's funny. I think [snorts] there's a picture, and I I'll share it with you before I go today, um,

46:17 of a a portrait that was supposed to be of just me or or my parents took us in when we were very young to get individual pictures of us. So, Amy takes her pictures and um, it's my turn and I I'm not having it, right? And so I need I I refuse to behave until Amy's right beside me. And in the picture, you know, I'm I'm have my hands on her hands and she's you can tell she's kind of there like, "Okay, I'm here. Go ahead." You know right. >> It's really sweet. Um but it's um >> sounds familiar. Yeah, it's very comforting to me that regardless of what comes from this um you know I did my best and um

47:04 you know it's it's it's hard but I'm and I'm not going to stop doing it um because I [snorts] owe it to her and and since we don't you know again I it's hard to make sense of it to people who don't understand after 27 seven years. Why we don't, you know, give it up. And it's it's simply because we don't, even though we don't know exactly what happened, um, and we don't know where she is or if she's still alive, we don't we haven't ever had any evidence that she isn't. There's no body. There's no evidence. There's no piece of clothing. There's no nothing. And so we have to we have to go forward

47:50 assuming that she's, you know, out there waiting for us to save her. [snorts] Mhm. >> And and I think I think any short than the effort that everybody on our team, including me, is making is um is honoring her and and uh you know, we can't and nor will we um stop trying as hard as we can whether it makes sense to people or not. >> Yeah. I think to some people they're thinking, "Oh, this is torture to have to go through all of [snorts] this." But [clears throat] what I think they're missing is that this brings you closer to her in a way, you know, and it it probably feels kind of good to be talking about her all the time. And it feels good to have everybody interested in >> and >> yeah, and this has brought forward a lot

48:35 of personal stories from friends and >> we've [snorts] had pictures sent to us that we've never seen um of her and that kind of thing and that's always a really cool thing. >> That has to be touching. >> It's very meaningful to all of us. um you know that the what's happening and not only the outreach outreach from people around the world um but you know the the amount of time and energy and selflessness that [snorts] complete strangers have put into this and and I include people on our on our team not just content creators on Tik Tok and things that you know there's some really valuable assets out there that have spent hours upon hours upon

49:21 hours of researching and putting together content that um you know they're they're doing whatever they can to help us and um you know then you have those that um that aren't so helpful >> that have too much time on their hands. Yeah. How's your mom doing? >> Um good. Um she well you know I say good. She's taken up um her old uh exercise routine. >> Oh, good. >> Um you know, unfortunately, my parents over the past several years have lost three dogs, >> and they were tied down specifically with one of them who uh was ill for a long time, completely blind. It was a

50:07 24-hour job that they couldn't leave the house at the same time. They couldn't go anywhere. They couldn't travel. So now that um that they're freed up um they you know it's it's almost odd to for them to say they're going somewhere or going out of town, but they're they're getting to live a little bit more life um that they've been um you know kept from over the past several years with the with the the dog issues. But, you know, mom uh she's out walking miles and miles and, >> you know, losing some weight and feeling good and and and >> that's wonderful to hear that. >> And and although, you know, reliving all of this has been obviously really hard on her. Um, again, the positivity that comes from all the different aspects of

50:54 what's happening when so many years went by without anything. Um, has been has been good. I think >> I just picture her in that office like working harder than ever because as you said you you know she just was >> all day yesterday she was in she was talking to all kind of different people. >> Yeah. >> But you know she probably feels fulfilled by that too. >> I think so. >> Yeah. >> I think so. And I think all of us like >> you know it's kind of goes back to every every opportunity we've ever had. We know we can look back and say that we did absolutely everything. and and and even, you know, since this show came out, there's not, you know, really one thing that we've left on the table that um >> hadn't gotten our full attention. So,

51:40 >> you know, we're going to continue with it. So, um you know, all you out there that uh that don't like us for whatever reason, um you know, fly a kite, I guess. But we're gonna, you know, we're going to keep [snorts] we're going to keep doing what we're doing. Well, um I know there was some things that you can't tell us and some things that you know are off the table for this interview, but I hope >> if there is a time when they become um able to be shared, you'll come back and and talk to us again. Absolutely. I you know, I think >> there's a tremendous interest nationally, but also locally because so many people know your family. I can't tell you how many times I've been out in Richmond and someone [snorts] said, "Oh, I watched that interview because I went to high school with him or I know his

52:26 dad from here or I know his I mean, there's a lot of connection out there." Um, specifically in in this area and you know, and you know, just to put your anxieties at ease, everyone has said lovely things to me about your family. So, you know, these are the Richmond folks though, you know, so [snorts] >> those who actually know you. So, um, anyway, I hope you'll come back and keep us updated. I will, >> Brad. And thanks again for your time. >> Thank you. >> Untold is a production of WTVR CBS6. Executive produced by Mike Bghazi and Katie Beck, directed [music] by Nick Maharage and Brock Taylor, and edited by April Harshman. Follow the show on Instagram at [music] untold_wtvr.