Big Finish Review - January 2025 with guest Rob Valentine

0:00 hello I'm Matthew W house I'm coming to Australia in March 2025 and I'm going to be in Sydney I'm going to be in Melbourne I'm going to be in Adelaide so hope to see you then cheers bye [Music] [Applause] [Music]

0:48 good day audio files this is the Sirens of audio the show that explores the universe of Doctor Who in the audio medium and other cult TV there you go Philip it's been so long I I forgot the intro line how are you yeah I'm Dwayne and I'm Phillip good day Dwayne how you going you forgot to keep going did I you forgot the whole I'm Dwayne you you're supposed to say I'm Dwayne I'm Phillip I said good day d a there you go hi everyone thank you for that uh good to see you Phillip um how how things been we've um we've had Janet Fielding in Australia once again at this time in a different city in CRA How did that all go it was lovely being in the capital territory with Janet Fielding um

1:35 she was her usual arite self um had lots actually bit about her at the moment because she's currently in Brisbane texting me messages about the Cyclone coming towards her and um so she and she was last time there was a cycle of H bris was 1976 and she was there as well and she was telling me stories of the flooding and the dead dogs and cats floating down the street that she had to walk through and so I was getting I've been getting stor from getting text about okay yeah so anyhow so for those you who are listening um this what happened by now a Cyclone's heading towards Brisbane and you'll know whether or not it hit and how much damage it did but we're just waiting to hear which is it's very it's very far south for a cyclone um they don't usually travel anywhere down near that as far south as this one is and so

2:22 it's causing lot of concern it's been a big hassle for work as well but yeah I am great Janet at the moment is safe and we had lovely weekend in CRA um friend of the podcast Todd and his um husband Ash were with us and they were marvelous and yeah there's a fantastic group of fans that came and gathered in Cambra we had some dals there Janet Janet just put a brilliant show as always um it was just a really lovely time so with that in mind in a couple of weeks time we have Matthew Waterhouse coming to join us in a few different cities we're starting off in Melbourne on the 20 22nd uh and 23rd of so 22nd is a VIP and 23rd will

3:10 be the uh the event and then the following weekend we are doing the Adelaide on the Saturday and Sydney on the Sunday so that'll be very exciting if you want to get your tickets to see Matthew Waterhouse in person with us uh just go to Sirens of audio.com and you can get your tickets there it' be great to see you all looking for to this one it'd be wonderful to see you yeah I'm really looking forward to Matthew it's been it's been interesting too because there's a few questions I asked Janet to get get myself prepared for Matthew and I'm curious to hear Matthew's responses back um from what from what Janet said so it's going to be some interesting contrast because Matthew work with Tom Baker and Peter Davidson and laa Ward and through a very turbulent time and John naan Turner coming and Tom being forced out and yeah I'm very excited to

3:57 hear the whole story of all that from Matthew's Ma and what we had on the program he's really thoughtful very intelligent and yeah I'm I'm really looking looking forward to some of his considered uh answered and looking at him from from years in the future so I'm very very very excited Matthew so today we're going to be having a quick look at some of the releases from January that stood out to us from Big Finnish we're a little bit delayed on that uh I do apologize it's been a bit quiet on the podcast front over the last couple of weeks but we are uh getting getting back to uh usual service at the moment um we also have a guest coming on to join us this week and that is Rob Valentine he's the he's the script editor and one of the writers for uh the new fugitive Dr

4:45 box set Most Wanted so we're going to talk to him about that and get his thoughts on that particular range so that'll be fascinating Philip to uh to get uh Rob Valentine he's he's one of our most returning uh guests so I'm glad he keeps coming back well yes and can I say we could keep getting in back cuz there's something else happening this month I was thinking well we could talk to Rob about that so yeah he keeps he keep writing too much and do he's very busy at the moment doing some great work all right so we'll get to that uh after we go through our um stories for the month uh but before we do that there's one thing we got to do philli you know what no I forgotten what do we do next yeah I know it's been so long we got to jump down the rabbit hole let's

5:33 [Music] [Applause] [Music] go okay few things have happened uh since we've been together recording Phillip and uh I guess I could ask you about the uh most recent trailer for Doctor Who have you had a chance to see that season two there's a big trailer that's just been released and are you looking forward to it uh okay I have watched the trailer but only once I I keep tending to go back I started a new role at work this week and so with Janet Fielding last week excuses Phil oh sorry I'm speak excuses so I really haven't had a chance to look at it properly for what I saw it looks amazing but trailers can always look amazing no matter how

6:19 good or bad something is and so I've actually worked out I can't you can't trust trailer the thing I've seen that's most interesting which was a major spoiler um if if we call them spoilers or maybe it's um a teaser was the German I saw some stuff from a German trailer that came out which was very different which had a shot of the doctor and companion being turned into cartoons um and that looked pretty that looked pretty amazing so the German trailer looks more interesting than the um English one that got came out what what what was your impression of the trailer well I've only seen that first one and now you've mentioned the German one I might have to seek that out and and have a look at it um however I was not you know I was not enamored with the

7:05 first season so uh that is kind of secondary to all my other doctor who consumption at the moment I've got season seven on Blu-ray coming on the way so I am very eagerly anticipating the arrival of that seeing all those stories once again I've been itching to watch them like I put um I went to put ambassadors of death on the other day said no I got to hold off got to wait for the wait for the Blu-Ray so uh very keenly anticipating that um more than more than anything really I I guess and the Savages as well is coming out in a few weeks time so I am a fan of the animations I have enjoyed the animations that this particular company has done before so I'm looking forward to the Savages not quite sure on their

7:51 rendition of the first doctor but if I can watch the whole story as uh as in motion then I will cuz I like the Savages I rate it it's it's a good story so I'm looking forward to that one as well it won't be long for the new series starts so it'll be to see where it's very much just follows on from the first season because they did basically do the two seasons back to back um or we see some new things will we will we see a Dal story for this doctor or not will we have a regeneration at the end of the season there's a a few big we're waiting to see yeah yep that's it so all to come in next month or two all right that was a quick one let's jump up out of the rabbit hole and we'll talk about some of the stories that stood out to us for the

8:37 month now there are some stories that you've heard that I haven't and I've heard that you haven't so that's good so that'll give us a good a good mix uh for the month I want to kick it off with uh the first release of 2025 I was looking forward to this very much it's an audio novel called the Lord of misrule which which is features the fourth doctor Romano 1 and Joo and Lightfoot and as it's a audio novel it's done by a reader and that reader is John khaw and I think he does a fantastic job at all of the voices um I was particularly impressed by his light foot he gets light foot very nicely throughout this the thing

9:24 with the audio novels though is that if you are a long-term audio drama listener you're going to get a a 1 Hour 2 hour or 3 hour maximum if it's a you know a sixpar story and that's what you commit to but with an audio novel you've got to commit to uh 9 hours I think this one goes for so it's it's it's broken into six parts so it's episodic so it's about an hour and a half for each episode uh but you've really got to invest that time and I don't know about you Philip but I I don't find myself able to chop and change between stories so I I can't really F listen to a bit of this and then listen to another story and then go back to this I feel like I've got to try

10:11 and get it all done in one go how do you feel about the audio novels are you the same like that I am and the reason why I haven't listened to this yet I confess I haven't I do have it and I love John ker I love poor moris I love the fourth Dr Roman and Jer and life so I do really want to listen to the story because I think it's going to be really great but I just need to find enough time to do it and this is this will be a whole week of listening really of me struggling yeah and so I can't listen to anything else while I'm listening to this and I just haven't put it aside and so yeah it it's gone on the back burner um yeah I could try and listen to it at 1.5 speed or 1.75 but I think they would be doing a disservice tell Nick Briggs well that's why I haven't done

10:57 it a not to tell Nick BRS but also because yeah I I do actually believe in the purity of the sound design Etc I mean with a with a normal novel which hasn't got a sound design behind it I am happy to speed it up but I think that I'm assuming this has an excellent sound design with it all and it does it does so I need I need listen to and probably with headphones on and so I've got to find see there always two weeks a listening probably at the moment because of my lifestyle yeah I'll get to it but I mean I love the cover I think the cover's spectacular and it looks great so did you enjoy it yeah I I did very much and and Paul moris yeah I always love his the last novel audio novel type story that I

11:43 listened to from Paul Morris would have been one of the stories from the jgo and Lightfoot season 14 which they did as audio books cuz um before um I can't remember the actor's name oh Trevor back Trevor Baxter of course yeah that was that was the SE that was the season 14 that uh that the scripts are written but he unfortunately passed away so they they held that often but still turned the series into audio books um so it was it was really good in that and I always find Paul Morris's humor to be right at my alley so I I find myself laughing at a lot of his jokes uh he I I sort of Gill very much with his humor so very good stuff I was say I love his heightened language and of course since

12:29 since this came out of course to chrisop penjamin has passed on so we've lost both Jagger and lot now from Big finish Productions Doctor Who the audio novels the Lord of misrule small piece unlocked the door and a figure moved into the shop well bless my soul exclaimed Joo behind him small piece slammed the door causing a waft of fog to evaporate into the gaslit corners of the room you know this character He barked indicating the doctor if he's troubled just say the word I'll sort him out he thrust his whiskery chin towards the doctor pugnaciously know him Joo said why this is one of my closest friends and as for

13:17 trouble well I can't deny trouble often accompanies him no but he's the one sorting it out not causing it AR you doctor thank you Henry a more St car a witness I couldn't ask for small piece was a Gog you're a doctor he turned to ja is the doctor what what didn't you say so he clapped the doctor on the shoulder J told me all about you this puts an entirely different complexion on things he looked at the glowing cylinder fondly I can see I shall have to take a bath on this one oh well Joo looked confused at the exchange we've been agreeing terms beamed the doctor what

14:03 about you bit late to be out shopping joo's face clouded I was looking for light foot you haven't seen him either of you the professor said small pie thoughtfully not for a month or so only comes in here when he's on a case and not like you and we've only to surved said the doctor romano and I he added to joo's quizzical look from maror eh joo's mustache bristled slightly and he seemed imperceptibly to hold his head a little higher very fine woman that he haded a small piece for jao he'd met her when they got involved in the case of the pugilist who had been stalking London what made you think light foot might be

14:48 here more likely in the pub i' have thought I've just come from there huffed jgo he sighed as if wrestling with a confidence you might as well know he's uh not been himself depressed you might say but with a side order of erratic last I saw he was charging off into the fog with a demented look in his eye he paused I know it doesn't sound much but I'm worried the state is in someone could do him a Mischief or he could do un himself the doctor looked out into the impenetrable Haze lit only by a couple of dimly discernable

15:34 gaslights I trust your instincts any day Henry not a night for the aimless he opened the door Roman's out in that too she can look after herself surely said Jacob she and Lightfoot aren't the only ones out in the fog said the doctor Darkly somewhere there's a Time vehicle with no Rudder and a nasty habit of disgorging visitors from the past Joo blinked oh what this is the only thing that can fix it said the doctor patting the cylinder come on you two we've got a busy night ahead of us we've got to find out who is behind this small piece blinked me too you too old small piece said the doctor

16:21 he clapped jgo on the shoulder conspiratorially I'm assuming you trust this reprobate Henry oh yes replied jaob well that is to say he may be a clook but he's no villain good enough for me shouted the doctor bounding to the door and flinging it open come on big finish for the love of [Music] stories so let's move on to the first doctor Adventures release Steven Nunan release and Lauren cornelius's dodo featuring the return of Peter pervis um in the living Darkness so last year we had Morin O'Brien um coming back in

17:07 playing her current age physically and in this one Peter pervis does the same thing now I know you and I have both listen to this so give us give us a rundown on uh your thoughts on the living darkness philli in terms of positives I think the performances are just amazing Peter pervis has the first episode to himself basically which I think is really fantastic because it really gets to bring Steven back and I think I love Peter peris and the opportunity for him to just be the center of this mystery of where where theyve end where where the story is taking place we'll give away the spoilers but where it's taking place what's going on it's a bit of a mystery he doesn't he doesn't really know where he is at first with other characters

17:53 don't really know who they are and it's the whole exploration of normal episode one of black and white Doctor Who of the whole Discovery where we are and then the doctor enters enters the the prey Steven n as always just as an amazing performance of the first doctor I just every time he comes back I just love what he does I love his work his care on the first doctor his love for the first doctor just shines through and I thought he and Peter peris just worked so well together both in terms of the warmth but also in terms of the friction um which I thought was just which was just lovely so and all the characters in terms of the whole whole group acting together I thought was really cleverly done so they're the main posses great story really worth listening to I think my big winge I'm

18:40 having at the moment is I think these stories is too long um I think I've said you before I still I still think the right length for Dr story is 50 minutes so I would have preferred this to have been three one hour stories rather than one extended six-part story which I just thought it was a bit too long it's not it wasn't engaging I just once again I'm jumping in in out of cars and I want to listen to bits and pieces I want to get through stories and just like I couldn't invest in a 9h hour book I actually I'm actually finding it hard to invest in a three-hour story because I'm it's I can't listen to in one go and I want I'd like to listen to a story in a go and get through it in a day and this is this took me in and out four or

19:26 five days and I forget things cuz I'm getting old so I'm I'm really partial I mean I've just finished the latest John Cole show this week which was you know seven episodes and I just thought it's just too long I just want I just want short f-sized pieces but that's that's me that's my personal preference um I love I love these characters together I love the actors but I really think I would have preferred just three stories with the do and Steven and dodo rather than one drawn out story maybe there's economic reasons for doing it maybe it's because they want to try and get back to the field but I don't know what was your impression of this story well I agree with you particularly since it's only one story coming out in in the first doctor Adventures range for the year I mean that's not enough I mean

20:14 we've got other stories that have been announced coming well there's another first doctor Story featuring Steven Nunan coming out uh next month I think it is uh the family's short trip is it family's short trips no companion Chronicles the style of the companion Chronicles uh and that's called families uh so there's a couple of stories there where he's featured which is good so and that that comes to my little nitpick with this story I Echo everything you said performan is f Peter pvis fantastic but this is a first doctor story there's not enough of the first doctor I I if I'm going in to listen to this doctor I I want to hear the doctor and I mean he's not in the the first episode at all um I and and the rest of

21:01 it is very very scattered throughout so from for my personal taste uh if I want a doctor who story I want the doctor and i' I I don't think the the doctor was in this one enough that's my only bug bear with this one apart from that everything else was fantastic yeah and you get to know the doctor to the adventures if they're only having one Adventure a year you really don't feel like ignore them whereas even if if had three different stories so we'd had you know a future a past just a scattering Adventures I just think you get to know the doctor better and and I just think people you people would warm even more to the the portrayal that Ste students's doing so yeah I yeah but anyhow that's that's maybe it's his personal

21:46 preference don't know yeah well yeah it's not just you from Big finish Productions Doctor Who the first doctor Adventures the living Darkness please return to quarantine it is for your own good we have your best interests at heart none of this is for my own good CH me with the voices of my friends would you first Susan and now Steven well I won't stand for it you here [Music] doctor I seem to be bouncing around in time and space for some reason and believe you me if I could leave I would it's a dog You're With Friends everyone I'd like you to meet the doctor

22:32 a fellow prisoner and a very old friend I think that must be the ship's name Saad I've heard that word before our captors are collectors then we're just part of that solar system exhibit we don't know we don't know where we are we don't know where we're going please do not be alarmed this is for your own good they know we're here they're coming for us yes unfortunately I think you may very well be right I think our only option is to get off this ship we must hope it lands before they reach us we only want what is best for you no stay away from me stay away from me Steven tayor what who said that you have failed selection I will now delete

23:20 your brain no this can't be the end it can't doctor big finish for the love of stories doctor I've got a bone to pick with you let's move on to uh another release um that I've only just I've only started listening to I don't know if you got all the way through but this is zygon Century infiltration uh give us your thoughts on this one because it's uh it's an unusual Beast it is a very I can hear it is a very unusual Beast so it's it's three zygon stories connected but in three different eras um and it's it's Bleak I found I

24:08 found it very Bleak so I don't don't think I approach it quite knowing what to expect and so I'm not not quite sure where it came out of and there's a more some more releases coming this later in the year which are a similar format so I think I might hit them a bit better because I know what to expect to be better um I've only listened to the first two stories I actually didn't get to the third one which is probably a shame because that's the one which actually has the doctor in it I assume because he's on the cover I don't know he's in the third one but I'm assuming Michael trouton is playing the second doctor in the third story because he didn't appear in the first couple it was yes it was enjoyable I guess these are these are the modern era zygons and they're not quite the same as the classic zygons it was it was

24:54 okay so what what happens have you listen to um I've listened to most of the first episode so yeah still working my way through that I'm actually on that right now but um yeah it's quite the way it's done too is quite interesting um sort of all over the place you're sort of having to guess what's going on it's not really everything's not exactly spelled out for you so it's it's yeah I suspect having not listened to the final episode yet it really hasn't come together yet and that's possibly my FOC I guess that's what'll happen when when we get to the end it will come together I hope so but at the moment it is just a bit all over the place and the classic zygons are better

25:40 they they just are they're much better yeah I agree all right uh let's uh now this is one that you would have heard but I haven't heard at all and that's the Torchwood uh release for the month yanto Inferno uh written by Roland Moore who I always rate as a very good writer what were your thoughts on this one I love it it's um it's just three characters and they caught in a stairwell so it's it's it's a it's a lowbudget audio but it it it just takes place basically the entire thing in a stairwell which just goes on forever it goes up forever and down forever it sort of Ashes artwork that never ends and

26:25 what can you affect and how do you escape but but it really is a very very strong character piece and yanto has a really strong role and it's you're trying to you're trying to work out where in Yo's live stream it comes because you know yanto is a character in torwood started off not being particularly liked or respected he had his girlfriend HD as a cyber woman downstairs they kill her that causes a bit of friction but eventually he becomes part of the team and so it actually felt like it was quite early on but actually you come to realize oh hang on there's more going on here so it's a lovely exploration of character having only three characters me me you get to look really in depth it gets quite chilly at times but certainly this is a

27:10 back to form of really excellent tort water I for a long time Torchwood every month was was some of my favorite releases this is going back to that sort of yes it's it's a classic Torchwood it's inventive it's only three characters it's yeah I don't say more create spoilers really this would be one worth getting though if you're not sure to get this month this would be higher my list to get and January is always yanto month isn't it seems to be over the last few there's there's a lot of yanto there's a lot of we a lot of yanto recently actually um I G Gareth David Lloyd is just magnificent so i' I'd actually like to see him on stage live because I believe he's a superb actor on stage as well so I'm maybe when I'm over in the

27:55 UK later in the year he'll be in something hoping to see lots of theater when I'm over in December so he's he's one of the ones I'm hoping to see on stage got room in your suitcase what to bring him back with me or take you with me to take me well here's to our deal yo Jones yes here's to our deal from Big finish Productions Torchwood yanto Inferno but we want to have a look at what else you've got before we decide on what to trade great that's what I expected well bring your crisps and let me take you to [Music] Torchwood Van's on the third floor and

28:42 it's only a short drive to the archive so why you betraying your mates then betraying that's a word isn't it yes I suppose I am you sure this is the ground floor what only if this is the bottom why are there loads more flights of stairs going down okay that's impossible can't even see the top or the bottom this car park has five stories that should be five flights of stairs and we should be able to see all the way up and down but we can't this place it's a trap isn't [Music] it w was there

29:28 came from further up something's in here with us big finish for the love of stories all right let's move on to the next one and that is the classic Doctor's new monsters box set uh number volume Five this one they've called Faithful Friends so a very exciting title for the box set Just For You Phillip um there's four four stories in there two written by John Dorney so Story one and Story three both feature the krillitane and uh the Second Story uh the Dying Breed by Tim Foley features the lupari so the dog uh from

30:16 flux uh those those aliens flux yeah and uh the last story is 500 Ways to Leave Your Lover and that is a Again by Tim Foley um and that features the monks so for me I think this was was a bit of a mixed bag I love the the the dawning Stories the krillitane stories I really love them um the the particularly the first one the krillitane faint I thought that was awesome getting the second Dr Jamie and zoi together pre-season 6 um or pre war games I should say so season six I thought that was really good and I was very much enjoying that

31:03 by the end uh the lupari uh because I'm not enamored with flux at all and you know I don't really connect with with uh that particular monster so that really didn't do much for me krillitane Relic was uh fantastic again um who was the doctor there oh yeah the seventh Seventh Doctor with fantastic with Ray yes so we've got we've got some Ray stories coming up but uh this was the first appearance of Ray so hopefully we'll find out did we find out in that story how Ray got into the Tardis or was she just there just there so that's Yet to Come yeah like the S doctor traveling with um Harry and Naomi it took three or four years before we actually found out what the heck was going on I suspect we

31:48 got enough going on here hope it's a bit quicker to find out about Ray yeah I think there there's Ray stories coming up this year and the monks I remember you saying a few things to me about the monks they're they're a monster that uh you're still not quite sure what what they're what they're all about Philip no I I still don't get them they're too clever for me obviously I do actually be mean i' be mean to go back to watch season 10 and watch those three month episodes again because I've probably I would have seen them twice but I've not I've only watched bits of season 10 and I think I think Stephen says Peter's best SE I don't know I love season 10 but for some reason the monk stories I kind of and the E of light there's sort of four stories in there that i' never I've watched both ends a lot more than I've

32:33 watched the middle I'm not quite sure how that's happened B same yeah so so in terms of me I mean these are the this is the only release this month which actually has original doctors in it so there's there's actually a a lacking of original doctors which may or may not matter I don't know whether it's to people's taste or not and like you I actually found it was the story without the original doctor with Michael Tron playing the second doctor which I enjoyed the most um John dney I must admit it's a John dney story I'm now listening out for what's the trick going to be because I know John DNE is gonna do something with my expectations because he always does and so I was suddenly waiting how is he going to try and confirm my

33:19 expectations this time and so I was listing out for it and I I got I got it before it was revealed so I was I was think yes finally I've beaten John Dorney but he's he's written it really well and of course the third story does link back to the first story as well it's that very clever link and some lovely work with with Wendy padbury and Fraser Hines so it was really lovely just their performances Michael TR does a great job but s of um Sylvester mcoy as well um and yeah like you I guess to me the Loper were never really explained properly in the flux that every human being has a dog that protects them I had issues with the whole doggy thing in the first place and this didn't really help

34:05 me understand them any better I mean I did love Tom there anything explained in flux no no no I mean the the whole thing was like we was saying with the zygon one earlier you kept thinking in the last episode it will all make sense and you got to the last episode and went ah they explained nothing which was just major disappointment well once again maybe I'm not as smart of people out there maybe our list can tell me what was going on in the flux and they it does all make sense at the end but to me it was just all these wonderful setups and nothing paid off and I guess I felt a bit like that um with the Dying Breed Tim Foley I usually adore all his writings I thought the um 500 Ways to Leave Your Lover had some very clever elements to it all but

34:50 to me um the two John Don stories really stood out as as the highlight of the set from big finished Productions the worlds of Doctor Who classic doctors new monsters Faithful Friends gather around my Cubs tonight I tell you the tale of what happened here if you are the creatures that injured my brother you will be ripped apart like the animals you are the destiny of the lupari hangs in the balance no that does sound ominous we're really in the Luna Spar not just a Luna Spar the Luna Spa you

35:36 and the doctor are booked in for the full coup's treatment I think we may have company figures in right they're the monks the groom is near he cannot Escape your skin it's gray and cracked we require the truth hello Hello I'm called the doctor and you're in a lot of trouble another mutation the famous krittin pens how many would you say you had here just a few hundred hands in the air now oh dear what a good start is it does this sort of thing often happen to you rather

36:23 frequently what's going on here Magda I don't know the cryogenic facility I wonder what Zoe's doing here so she's what undercover lying I don't know ohay I think I might have just made a terrible mistake big finish for the love of stories let's move on to a story that uh we have both listened to a box set which is one continuous story and that is a a new property that big Finnish has the rights to and that is V visitation and um you haven't seen the

37:09 TV series I have seen some of the TV series particularly the first miniseries and bit and some of the early episodes um but I want to hear your feedback on what you thought as a newcomer to the V sort of uh Saga what were your thoughts on this well bizarrely enough I think this was the best release of the whole month so this was the one that most engaged me in terms of Storytelling and acting and its pace so I did I mean I knew V from the ads I've got vague memories of people with sunglasses and tongues coming out that are forked but that's just some ads I had no idea what this story was about

37:54 and this audio caught me from the very beginning and it was it was done through new stories and so many characters and I I must admit it started with so many characters I was thinking I'm not going to be able to follow this there's too many characters and yet by the end I knew exactly what was going on who everyone was I was feeling connected to characters but this is just the pace of this story it just drives and drives and drives and builds suspense of the whole First episodes the whole coming of the aliens who are they and then then what goes on from there and it has so much to say with life today and society today with what leadership should look like with the people in social media um what

38:40 is truth what isn't truth the the things this has to say about our modern society were just profound and so I was just engrossed by the story the whole time through driven by the plot driven by the characters it also had that deeper level which you could or couldn't engage with and for me if you The Pick of the month which I can't believe I'm saying V because at the start of the month I I wasn't even sure I was I wasn't even sure I was going to listen to this or get it but big Finnish just showed everything in terms of when they pull everything together with Direction and casting and sound design and as I said I think it's Johnny it's Johnny Morris isn't our friend Johnny I think yeah is that right ah like he's done the most

39:26 amazing job and then so I know nothing about this story but I can't wait to hear what happens next and I'm just yeah I'm hanging out for the next episode because these are characters that I really want to know what's what's going to happen to the next because I'm just so caught up and I'm caught up not just the humans but with the aliens too because they've got real drives and characteristics as well and stuff I don't really understand what's going on but boy I'm intrigued so what about someone who's watched this miniseries how you find well I knew before going into this that this was going to be a retelling a modern retailing of the same story that we saw before so I came into it i' I'd seen some skepticism online and I I I've

40:12 got to admit that I felt that skepticism myself and I thought oh they're going to put in modern stuff and they're going to be you know going on about brexit and Co and all that which the couple of the little things were dropped in but it wasn't overdone I didn't think was overdone I thought it was done right um I was totally impressed and of course the setting has gone from the United States to the UK so that's a different setting as well um the the old man character who was uh Jewish in the original uh v television series has now been uh an African is an African man who's gone through I think was gone through a parthe had he is that yeah so he' gone through he been prisoned Tores

40:57 and escape from hard from South Africa yeah yeah yeah so so I thought that was done really really sensitively by Johnny and really well and um Al you know adapted for audio too there were things about V the TV series like any TV series that big Finnish does that are very visual but they managed to capture that visualness uh on the audio medium perfectly and uh I very very much enjoy enjoyed it so I think I might I might be tempted to agree with you that this was the best release for January from Big finish I think I do agree bizarre isn't it but there you go they stopped Mike look up but the government forces wouldn't call off their attack

41:43 not without good reason there's a reason all right look up it must be over 10 m wide made of some sort of silver metal it's like the best special effects ever now we know how the indigenous people felt at the first sight of thead or ship whoever they are they've been observing us for a very very long time my name is John we have come because we need your help my name is Diana I am the commander of the mothership above you two weeks ago I received an email inviting me to be of the conspiracy you believe all this about a

42:32 conspiracy of course I mean it all fits doesn't it scientists thinking they know best anyway we don't have anything to worry about do we I mean you're not a scientist I'm not a scientist must help this family or else we haven't learned a from Big finish Productions the UK visit itation what are these rodents called again guinea pigs Commander final release for the month was the Fugitive Dr box set we were eagerly anticipating this after Joe Martin's appearance in Once and Future Koda a few months ago I enjoyed that

43:20 performance I enjoyed her bouncing off Jonathan Carly's War doctor in that particular story so I was Keen to get into this one um let let me start with you Philip what were your what were your thoughts on this set well honly a lot of what I My Views and my opinions of it came through in the interview we did with Rob Valentine so I'm happy just to throw to the interview unless there's any you want to say beforehand before we go the interview well I I will say one thing um on the box set and that I think this is most definitely designed for fans of Joe Martin The Fugitive doctor so if you're a fan of that particular doctor you're going to you're going to love this you're absolutely going to love this um

44:07 I don't think this is I don't think this is for everyone though and I don't think it's made for everyone which personally I think could be a mistake I think it should be made or attempted to be made for everyone whether that's possible to do with a character like The Fugitive doctor with with the story arc that she's got from the TV series that they're playing with I don't know whether that's possible so for me personally this may not be uh a series for me but for plenty of people it is so and as usual it's fantastically done um Great Performances throughout sound design fantastic so thumbs up for all of that um but yeah uh I think uh I think some people are going to love this absolutely and I'm one of them and I

44:53 think you you'll hear that coming throughout through the interview because I I I really liked way it was going and I thought it was very inventive and Joe Martin's performance I think Joe Martin was I think one of the highlights of the jod era um as soon as she appeared on on screen she just had presence and I've always enjoyed what she's brought to the stage fantastic all right well we were privileged to speak once again with Rob Valentine uh always a pleasure talking to Rob and getting his thoughts on things so let's cross over to our chat with him on the fugitive doctor so one of the hotly anticipated releases for it feels like ages since was released uh this year is The Fugitive doctor first box set and we're very privileged to have one of the writers of the first in

45:39 fact the writer the first story and the script editor of the whole range with us Rob Valentine Rob welcome back to Sirens of audio hey thank you very much indeed how are you doing yeah doing really well thank you so I've been looking forward to this since it was announced and I think it was like 18 months ago was probably announced was it in LA I think maybe it was longer than that long I think it's been a couple of years I think it's been wow so how was it you got hand of how did you get hand of The reigns of looking after this release um really simply David Richardson emailed me and asked me if I wanted to script edit it and immediately I said yes um and then the then we kind of we're in business and so the the first step was right we we need to talk to Chris chel because we need to understand uh this

46:26 character where they fit in do they fit in and all that stuff so we can just get on with working out kind of what the series is going to be about and all the other stories how long did you meet with Chris and and what was the discussion like I remember the discussion I um how long it was a long time ago I think it was before the power of the doctor even um so it was a I think he had he or anyway yeah t time I don't know but I remember the conversation very well cuz um our BAS basically David and I what we wanted to know was um if if if the fugitive is a preh hardal doctor why does she have a police box as a Tardis and we had a few other questions as well um and it never really kind of come

47:12 across to me from the TV series that strongly but talking to Chris um it was just hugely um uh helpful when he explained that you know he's a huge fan of the prisoner and he's a huge fan of Twin Peaks and so the whole idea of the character is you know like number six in the prisoner you the Patrick McAn 60s TV series is you must never know who he is or what number two wants out of him because the moment you explain it you kind of kill the concept and like again with Twin Peaks um as soon as you kind of they as soon as they revealed who killed Laura Palmer you kind of the show kind of dies a bit and so you want you want that kind of utterly inexplicable mystery of the Red Room and the little [ __ ] and the one-armed man and Bob and

47:58 all that stuff and and and you want just the ongoing in congruity of this doctor and so that was so talking to Chris was kind of it was from that moment that we kind of realized ah I get it the fugitive doctor doesn't fit into the timeline intentionally she's like she's the Joker in the pack she doesn't she's not a she's doesn't she's not part of any suit or anything like that she is absolutely Patrick mcguan in the prisoner and that was kind of uh that was kind of our starting off point because um because that was kind of that was Chris chal's idea of the character an nth doctor really and I thought it would be a crime and really reductive if then big Finnish were to kind of impose a place for her

48:43 like saying okay we're going to decide she's prehart or or we're going to decide she's 6B she's meant she's meant to be a mystery in the extras you refer to the conversation that you had with Chris and you started by Chris you you quoted Chris as saying well I think she's and you stopped yeah now I'm not going to ask you to to go on from there but are you are you going to take the series in a direction that that um that he envisioned the character to go or because of the the type of character it is are you virtually got free reign to go where you want to go with it you and we have free reign but I kind of feel that free reign in that you must stay true to the idea of the character and find a structure a story structure and a

49:29 series structure that complements the character and the reason I kind of stopped there with in terms of what Chris said well I think that and his next two words were well I think she is probably that was kind of where he went after that but the point is what Chris thinks is irrelevant because he's he's deliberately I think she was designed in part to create fan discussion but it's like it's you know it's fan discussion that Del like a JJ Abrams mystery box it's fan discussion that deliberately doesn't have an answer um so really I kind of thought well basically she's The Fugitive doctor she's The Fugitive she's Dr Richard Kimble so she needs uh Sam she she needs her US Marshall Sam Gerard to be chasing her and because she's on the run she can't have a companion um

50:16 but actually the Sam Gerard figure the character who's chasing her is the companion so it's it's basically it's Doctor Who it's about a time an eccentric time traveler who travels around helping people it's just that this version of the show is more like The A Team or um any of those kind of 70s or Stairway to Heaven you know uh one of these people who isn't allowed to stop traveling because they're on the run but wherever they go they help people and that's that's it really um it was just it's it's it's all Doctor Who so it all has to do Doctor Who stuff it's just that because of she's that kind of character that shape of show just seemed the most fitting really it's it's less about what you want to do with

51:03 an idea sometimes I think the idea kind of tells you no this is how this is the kind of thing I need as an idea to flourish okay it's a really fascinating idea and I'm I just want to drill a little bit deeper because it it's it's not what Doctor Who fans would expect I guess they they like things in some ways wrapped up a bit more even I guess the doctor's always been a mystery so in terms of did Chris himself actually believe he knew how this character fitted but isn't telling people or did he just create the character he's just happy for anyone to own it anywh they want um no it's neither of those he very it's his his idea as far as I again I might not be right about I might have misunderstood him I don't know but I as far as I understand the idea of the

51:48 character is that she doesn't fit in she's designed to annoy she seems preh haral that would make sense but then she's got the police box which suddenly doesn't make sense it's it's deliberate it's not it's there are many different kinds of fans and she this that that idea of the character will inherently annoy the kind of the train spotter the categorizing side of Doctor Who fans um but but you you just have to understand it's easier I think if you if you if you know the prisoner you know Twin Peaks she she's designed to be it would be much easier if she was just called the nth doctor you know but even but even then that would that would suggest although she's not part of the timeline but the whole idea is oh well she could be it's that's

52:35 the point she's she's designed to either be fascinating or irritating depending on how how you like your Doctor Who and if you need if you need people to fit in and if you need to know where your where to put the future do figure on your shelf she will annoy you unless you but but really you don't on the Shelf you just put you put her by the washing machine or something you put her somewhere else or you move her about cuz she it's a character designed to not fit and that's his intention so yeah that's that's just just thinking about the thinking about the prisoner for a moment if you're using that as a comparison I love the prisoner and the journey all the way through that I'm talking the TV series

53:20 here but when I get to episode 17 I'm as annoyed as heck and confused as hell cuz I assumed it was going to wrap up is that is that where you're taking us are you are we should we expect to have that same feeling with the fugitive doctor no because I don't like that feeling and the writer of The Fugitive um it ended up that way because Patrick McAn kind of took over and it was never The Fugitive was was never meant to go on that long and it just ends like I kind of I kind of uh pile that together with the the David nien Casino Royale it's like a late 1960s popup mess that doesn't mean anything um so no no um really it's kind of more the side of the street that appeals to me is more the kind of the

54:05 the Dale Cooper Twin Peaks side of things but also just really getting back to the fact that it's that as soon as you as soon as you supply answers uh you with with with an idea like that I mean there is the idea that um Patrick M the number six is Patrick mcu's character from uh Danger Man that's a fun Theory but if you were to actually explicitly state that you you kill you kill the mystery so I it's it's these things are fascinating to talk about but the but the thing is really it all boils down to uh a mysterious eccentric time traveler traveling around the universe and time and space in a police box helping people um and if that's and there comes a point

54:54 in my thinking about it where I think if you decide that that's not enough for you I have I have terrible news about the entirety of Doctor Who because that's what it really is um when you when you when you actually you Chuck out all the uh the baggage and all the stuff that fans like to get entrenched in and the stuff we spend lots of time having really fascinating discussions talking about but on some level you have to with with with a character who's designed like like The Fugitive doctor like number six it's it's tness is all the way down as Terry Prat might put it you know it's um you can't get to the end of the mystery or you kill the series it's like n Niles and Daphne can't consumate their feelings because you kill frasia you know that's it's one it's one of

55:40 those yeah things there's little mores you throw out though CU at one stage I thought you actually were going to give us a location because there's a little little throw throwaway comment about the communion circus and the circuit and the Tardis and a pre deltion to the police box and then it doesn't go where I thought it was going to go so there there's little morles like that all the way through which made me smile and I went ah bother like it felt like you were going to give us a clue and then took it away from us like snatched away which actually kept me quite engaged yeah and to be honest that's the kind of the cruel trick of it is that um you know probably as we you know if we get to do more of these and I'm fairly confident we shall because it's it's selling well and Joe Martin enjoyed doing it but I kind of think you know well you got to sew Clues all the way through that point in different

56:26 directions that's the that's the only thing to do with a character like this is you either ignore the continuity and you just get on with the story at hand like what she doing this this in this story you know what's what what's her problem today or you just um you plant signposts all pointing in different directions if you want to have some fun with that with that kind of twin peaky prisoner kind of you know just the the endless questions and no answers and and false leads and stuff like that and if you don't find that fun you're in [Laughter] trouble I think it's actually quite like the Fus TV show more than the movie I mean but the TV show is every episode he's on the Run Kim's on the run but he

57:13 does good and you can't work out what he could possibly done that's wrong that be lead to the chase that's happening um and so the three stories in this box set each one the doctors being the doctor where she arrives and it's not making sense why she's being hunted I mean once again what is section 31 what what's going on there why is she being hunted that that's all being kept deliberately away from us as well so I mean it's made me anticipate the next box set because I'm hoping they probably won't be I'm hoping for more answers because but what is driving is the fact that you're always trying to work out put the pieces together no EXA exactly um and because the fugitive is such a uh sort of um a source text for this one um yeah the

58:00 the you know you can only go on the run for so long before you start wanting to hang on a minute I need to find the one-armed man now so that's kind of you know there are certain things about you know the fugitive you know the structure of the future that kind of uh suggests how we're going to move forward um but the point point is you the things there's a limit to what you can explain just by Chris chiel's design because the moment you do you do so it becomes less interesting so it's you it's uh but again the way to deal with that is to give the problem to the character because the I think the doctor finds it infinitely and endlessly frustrating as well um but yeah um yeah so it's more things will be revealed but I think like Twin Peaks

58:45 there's always going to be just further Mysteries and further questions over the hill because I kind of think there has to be um but it's all about character and it's all about really the relationship between the doctor and Cosmo because that's the that's the interesting character everything else is kind of fan mystery baggage but in terms of human drama the fun thing is the uh the relationship between uh the person who's on the run and the person who's chasing them that's kind of that's kind of the dramatic approach from a storytelling point of view who decided who the writers were going to be and I mean you you you did the first story but as scriptor did you choose other writers was that David Richardson or was it you and him together it's usually together we kind of um throw a list of suggestions um but then the other thing

59:30 you know the big decider is availability um you ask people they're either free they're not free um fortunately um I think everyone we asked was free or made themselves available because it was it was was an exciting project to work on but um yeah it's a it's often it's a conversation between um uh script editor and producer and also whoever might have um recently written something good for you they're always kind of fresh in your memory as well but yeah that's that's generally the way it works again it was you know it's probably about two and a half if not three years ago now or something it it was Rec it was recorded over two years ago it recorded in January 2023 yeah that's the thing so I'm fairly I'm fairly sure we were kind of hatching all

1:00:17 this still when we were still locked down I think uh I think all business was you know conducted by Zoom at the time so yeah it was a devil of a long time AG go but yeah um yeah what usually happens is David will have suggestions I'll have suggestions um yeah and you tend to go from there then you just ask around and see who's free and up for it do you know why the decision was taken to wait two years before release or that's not not your decision and I think my understanding was that um the furtive doctor the Sasha Dewan Master Series call me master and uh the 13th Doctor Adventures I think they were all again I no one necessarily bothers to tell me I'm the script editor but I just for osmosis I just got the impression that they were all going to be released

1:01:02 after the jod Whitaker era had ended and possibly after the first series of uh um shoy ATS series had also so I just kind of think I think 2025 was always the the year that all three were going to come out I think it was just David Richardson being very efficient and just uh getting them recorded nice and early like a like a good producer should yeah um do you talk about the three stories what you know in terms of your first story The Fast Times the idea the whole idea of that um being captur by P had the characters were there um why how come you just came out with that idea or how did it come where did it come from well um I think with with rashan Patel's story um The Legend of

1:01:50 Baba Yaga and with Lisa mcmullen's Story the dimension of lost things I think we just let them know pitch some ideas and we kind of chose those ones David Richardson basically told me what you know look yours is going to be like the Chase and it's going to have the DS in it so I I kind of you know I was I was given a brief um which which is very it's a helpful thing to have actually but um my my story kind of had to do what an opening story of a brand new series has to do which is introduce the main character and make clear very quickly what's he set up set up the premise of the show going forward what new character is like and uh yeah basically bring bring all the pieces onto the board so that the series proper can begin afterwards

1:02:35 so my job was to introduce the the new doctor uh sort of introduce division or the division because it's never the same between sentences even the name division is Chris J will come said in our meeting you know sometimes it's referred to as division sometimes as the division and no clue why it just is you know another just little tiny little mystery to make it seem a bit odder but anyway so set up the division introduce your future doctor and introduce her Sam Gerard character in cosmog gon Cosmo who's the time lord detective who's uh sent to go after her and then just show her in action show her what she's like with the DARS and show her relationship with them and also just demon straight that she just she wants to kind of look

1:03:22 out for number one but she can't cuz she's she cares about everyone and she does good in the world you know so she's the doctor whether she likes it or not and I think that's probably the thing about the Future Doctor that's that's probably the P if you're going to pitch her in one line that's it her life would be much easier if she didn't care but she does and so yeah so my job was to set up all that stuff um in a in a in a in a in a sort of a Chase prison escape kind of way that does stop for breath really and that was that was the gig um if I get to do another one and probably um when you're script editing it does help to write one episode yourself just to help kind of guide the direction of

1:04:08 the show and all that uh so I think next time I'd like bit more free reign just to do a kind of a different kind of fugitive doctor story that isn't necessarily having to kind of carry the weight of setting up the series really yeah so did you write your script first and hand it to the other writers so they could all see where it was going oh no there's never time for that no no you just kind of no you let them know what you're doing and you kind of you all write in in in tandem in parallel as much as possible so that all the scripts are ready at the same time but as script editor you know you're there to kind of um to make sure that they all fit part of your job is to try to make sure that they all feel like they're part of the same show they all kind of make sense uh

1:04:56 once once they're all kind of lined up together and that they all fit so really no I think we all wrote In Parallel and I was just very delighted to get rash's story and Lisa's story um and and and and because although you you have plans for the series is one of the nice things is being surprised with what the writers do come up with I mean the about Yer story I really loved a bit of Ru but also just the the closest and person personal person P the close person it was lousy word the what what's the word I want to use it's a personal that's it I just like how personal how personal that story was and and once again it felt like the doctor had found a

1:05:41 companion but then sadly no but off to other things but the bbba Yaga I thought was brilly done and brilliantly cast oh yes yeah it was it phenomenally cast and um rash Patel is just one one of my favorite writers I I I work with her as much as I ever possibly can and as much as she's ever free um yeah no it's it's a wonderful story and that's part of the curse of the F The Fugitive doctor is um she can't really have companions because she's not living a life that's conducive to it so even even when she M meets people who you know in in other lives might have been someone you could take along with you she can't it's uh it's her curse I think

1:06:27 and just the other in terms of the um dimension of lost things that amused me was the idea that there's a dimension where every time I lose a pain or lose my phone or it's all gone to a particular place um so they're just constantly tripping over these items everywhere which I just thought that was just a beautiful image that they set up at the very beginning of that story yeah it's a it's an enchanting idea it's not just Za Zord bble Brocks taking your byos they end up here too that's that was kind of a lovely lovely conceit no I I love I love um uh Lisa's contribution to the series the dimension of lost things and it was really great getting a couple of stories that could have um that just feel like good um good Doctor Who stories that any doctor could have and that was one thing I was kind of happy about was that Jo Joe Martin gets

1:07:14 to have Doctor Who stories that she gets to star in as the doctor essentially um so I I do try to just refer to her as the doctor cuz she is is the doctor um it's just you know uh so it it' be nice over time if we you know if just if just naturally if just naturally you know the fugitive gets dropped a bit um but that that will just come with I think hopefully with just her getting to do more stories the fact that we need to keep the numbers with every you know the fifth doctor the eighth doctor I'm not sure fugitive will get dropped if we haven't got a number for her no no true true well you know we we Dro we drop the numbers you know in context and stuff but um yeah to be honest though even I I

1:08:00 I um I'm someone who likes the doctor to be 900 and something years old and that's it so the fact he's now you know he she they are now thousands of years old you that annoys me for some reason I just like the doctor I think the doctor should just be permanently 900 um because that's where I came in and that's what I'm I was used to but yeah um yeah I just think with with conversationally if you're just talking about her her show it would be nice if she just becomes the doctor um but we'll we'll see what happens you know it's the kind of thing no one has any control over um it's just you know I'm I'm just glad she's getting more stories really where she just gets she gets to be the doctor rather than uh a mysterious recurring character in another doctor's life yeah and Joe Joe Martin is spectacular I mean even you

1:08:47 know when she appeared in the future of the dun she just immediately won over so many people because her performance was so great that she she burst on being the doctor immediately which I thought was very powerful did you get to go to

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