Doctor Who: Once and Future - Hit or Miss? [SPOILERS]

0:00 hi I'm Morin o Brian and this is the Sirens of audio please leave our review for us on Apple podcasts and please like share subscribe and comment on our YouTube videos then you shall be like [Music] us [Music]

0:58 good day audio files this is the s of audio the show that explores the universe of Doctor Who in the audio medium I'm Dwayne and I'm Philip good day Dwayne good day audio files good Philip how are you I am well thank you been a bit warm here we've been having a few 40 degree days in Sydney so I heard that I heard that I'm coming to you from from Albany in Western Australia so if there are any listeners in Western Australia do let me know um in Albany you can wave as I go past yeah everyone can look up on a map where westren is little alone ALB it's the place that was locked off and no one could get into a few years ago okay all right today is our final full podcast episode for the year we've got

1:43 one bonus episode because we're going to we're going to come back on to talk about the church on Ruby Road shudy gw's first episode but this will be our first one we're going to have a bit of a rest Phillip I think we earned it I think so too how about first of all we just recap uh the events that are coming up in February should we do that first that would be good so for those who haven't heard yet for those of you in Australia we have Wendy ped coming to confirm Sydney and Melbourne um I'm I actually discussing and trying to work out whether we can get her to Brisbane as well um but I'm not no one talking to me in Brisbane I'm still trying to get contact with the right person um but yes Sydney on the 10th of February and then on the 18th of February in Melbourne there'll be a VIP

2:31 the night before so we've got Wendy pedre we've also got her daughter Charlie Hayes coming as well Haynes um who's done a number of big finish stories some really great ones she's had some great roles she has sometimes working with her mom often not um so we'll also um have a bit of a chat with her while she's out as well all right on today's episode we are going to be talking about all seven episodes that have been released thus far there's a little one to come in 12 months time of Once and Future the big finish 60th anniversary series and we're going to go through we're not going to spend too long on each one but we're going to give a brief recap of each story and just give our our basic thoughts on those but before we do philli do you know what no what DNE we have to jump down the rabbit

3:18 hole for the last time in 2023 come with me Philip let's go yeah here we [Applause] go [Music] thanks for coming down the rabbit hole with me again Phillip this is going to be a nice easy one we're just going to look back over the podcast for the last year and look through some of the highlights and I I just want to get your thoughts and feedback on what your memories are and standout moments from those years so if we go back to to January we had uh some awesome guests in January the first guest of the year was Michael trouton then we had Jeffrey beavers then we had G Russell uh joining us for a randomoid episode um standout moments from January

4:05 for you all of them I suppose that's not that's that's not too shyest start of the year was it it's a great start to the year yeah yeah it was great to with Michael trouton and um getting a few stories about his dad and just hearing about his career and what he's doing so that I enjoyed but for me I mean the Highlight um has to be Jeffy Bieber um what a fascinating life what a lovely lovely man and just he's such a gentleman such a gentle it was just glorious so just being able to sit and chat with him um yeah that that was great and Gary we've had Gary a lots of times this year because Gary's you know friend of our podcast and um always full great stories but yeah for for jenry I guess Jeffrey was just amazing you absolutely absolutely oh well it was

4:51 thrilling to talk to Michael trouton as well because I really uh sort of fell in love with Michael Michael's voice when I listened to the uh biography of his dad that he narrated so I really enjoyed talking to him and I predicted before it was announced that he should be playing the doctor and of course uh I think someone must have listened to me at Big Finnish and that must only be the 30th time you said that that's it all right let's move to February uh we had Kate Orman join us for the first time we had a a special um on Steven gri where we played some uh some un some cut footage from our interview with him because we were doing a um a sort of a memorial for for him uh we also had Jan chapel and and Sally

5:36 nette come back one to give us some extra material uh we also spoke to Michael Stevens uh commissioning editor for BBC books and Simon gria was on this podcast for the first time and he hasn't been on since we've got to do something about that in 2024 Philip uh he was talking about uh one of our randomoid episodes as well so what do you your thoughts on on February I think Kate Orman was a big one Kate was amazing to talk with um and just it was good to see her with so much life and so many stories to tell um actually the huge one that got lots and lots of listens to was um the T the target say Target publisher um but the BBC Michael Stevens Michael Stevens

6:22 like lots of interest there lots of interest that one um I guess for me we had such an amazing time with stepen was it last year um and so I think it was it was two years ago two years ago his passing just seemed like a real shock because he'd been so full of life we' had such an amazing time with him um so that was just sad I so it's was Lov to catch up with Sally and Jan and once yeah there's a bit bit more emotion that we we cut stuff that we didn't put in um but that was just a special time as well just being able to share and Steven graff's Sons got in contact with us just to thank us for the episode and for things that they learned about their father and that was just lovely too just to know that we yeah his touched his family's life as well which was just

7:08 lovely excellent all right let's move on to March this was an interesting month we had Dan sty uh for week one then we had John LaVine and we had Christopher Benjamin uh who else did we have we had John Dorney back on too for for another random oids but those three big guests uh what are your standouts for that one I know we I know for me it was probably John LaVine it was one of the most interesting interviews we've ever done I think yes Not only was there technical issues that we that we kept dealing with and I think we we dealt with them reasonably well considering what those issues were but um but John yeah he he was he was a fascinating character yes that's a good way to put it um I I was John will always be

7:56 something I'll never forget I mean Dan starky was I've been looking forward to talking to Dan for such a long time he's had such a major input into modern H who and so just to talk to him was just a joy as well but benj Christopher Benjamin too he has been since I was little um you know Mr Joo um a huge impact and just just chatting with him and yarning with him about life and history um some you s gr was taking far too soon some of the other actors are getting on and you know just being able to spend some time with them while they're still here and get some stories so I'm so I hadn't looked at what we've done this year now you read them out I'm just being blown away by those first three months like that's just amazing

8:42 who we've talked to like I'm yeah I can't believe it yes well April was a quiet month we didn't do too many full episodes um because it was qu a rather busy month it was uh our first event Janet Fielding was over right we we were we had events for Janet set up in Sydney Hobart and Brisbane so we only released well we released two episodes because one of them was B at fielding debrief where we were talking about uh Janet's uh events but the other one was episode 150 our 150th episode where we had a sit down face to face in person with ro mcmanis who is a huge name here in Australia yep so and he on a big finish I don't think probably around the rest

9:28 of the world people may not know in America they probably do actually he had a show over there I guess ask it's inter with the um the giggle last week um and talk about the LOI bear loie bear who invented television we have in Australia a um Awards night for television and film called the Lois named after loie bed and so it was interesting like the emms bit like the EMS in the US is it oh it's it's it's like the EMS Bia um I'm pretty sure the Em's are all industry Awards and so people who actually know what they're talking about award the best people um with our Lois half of our Lois are popularity Awards and so people you know it used to be

10:13 used to fill out forms in in a magazine like like the radio times um called TV week um but people used to rig that because they used to buy multiple hundreds of TV wigs and you know rig the forms now it's all done online and people still rig that um so it's a but we love it I mean the logos are ours it was just but um Ro M Manis won the gold logi which is the highest award you can win and um so that usually goes to particularly good actors or presenters and for years Ro mcis had some of the best TV shows best entertainment shows interviewing people and he was always amazing and yeah spending time with him in Tasmania was just a joy and having him on our program was great in terms of you know as an Aussie um we don't get we don't get to

10:59 do many Aussies but it was it was great to have him but yeah he had appeared in a big finish as well so it was good to be able to talk to him about that that's right but I mean Janet Fielding that month was just you know that was the highlight of the joy and you know doing things like going to the Blue Mountains but we couldn't see them because the Mist going up Mount Wellington in Tasmania couldn't see them because the Mist um yeah my wife and I took jenet out to a play the actor broke his ankle in the first half of the play so the play was canceled so we didn't get to see the second half everywhere we took her it was just a disaster she's just she's just jigs that lady she's just jigs imagine Janet and Katie Manning out together oh terrifying don't don't too too scary okay so may was uh a little

11:45 quieter as well because we had a random wordss to catch up on but we did and we and we showed some footage from the Brisbane event Jason hay gillery um which was interesting to show uh but we did have Sophie that month so that was busy as well uh but we had a we had a a big full sort of career big finish career interview with Helen gowin in in May which was really good too and Max kashvi um it was nice to be able to talk to a new writer uh as well so uh I always find those interviews fascinating but it was good to have a proper sit down chat with uh with Helen as well Helen is just a ing I find her so so

12:30 talented I I it blows me away that she is a huge star because she should have been um it's it's the luck of the draw sometimes you know sometimes people get picked up and other times people don't Helen has so much talent and still continues to just shine and we'll be talking about her quite a bit today actually because she's directed A lot of these episodes exactly so in June we had an interesting interview we we had a a chat with Elizabeth Morton Peter Davidson's wife about a book that she was writing plus a few other doctor whoie type things uh we had Tim bentin who is a regular guest actor for big finish and very very famous for his long-term role in the radio series The Archers which he's still doing um who else do we have they were the two

13:16 biggies for for that month so yeah I found Elizabeth Morton was really fascinating and she was in the Tripod so I was very excited to to talk to someone from the I know you enjoyed that one but yeah she was she was lovely in indeed yeah she was and Tim was great too because uh fellow Tasmanian born in Tasmania so very interesting story uh July was great we had uh the beautiful Beth Charmers join us we had Glenn mccre uh and we had Lizzy hopley uh join us for that month as well so uh probably well they're all stand outs for me because Glenn mccre was just hilarious um Beth Charmers was fantastic what an amazing voice but I really

14:03 enjoyed uh Lizzy hopley she she was with us for the whole show right from start to finish and she was um had a had a lot of really interesting thoughtful things to say um so that was a standout for me Lizzy I think for that month I love it when we get to talk to the writers and Lizzy has been producing such amazing work it was a real Joy but yeah I mean Glenn and so who's the other pres say Beth Beth I mean you both them have done so many roles Beth's G to come up again tonight um yeah so once again yeah there there was some great conversations there okay we're up to August and it was great to talk to Paul vovan another Aussie a well-known Australian actually who who wrote for the second Dr box set

14:50 wrote a story called The Green man we had Johnny Morris on again um Hugh Ross from uh countermeasures we had on as well and and we played some more we devoted one episode to some of the Janet Fielding live in Sydney so that was an interesting month as well I think I I love talking with Paul bov and I've spoken to him a couple of times on the podcast now and I love his enthusiasm for what he does that just comes through in in the way he speaks about what he does the excitement in his voice he really takes you along for the ride y I agree Hugh Ross for me because I I love C measures and I I just love Hugh's voice it's just amazing so I think for me just talking to Hugh and his career and um C measures was a great

15:38 joy and now we're getting up to the 60 towards the 60th anniversary season that we began in September um but not with this one the first one we did for September was a chat with John Dorney and Lise Jameson for the Omega factor which was uh due to be released a month or two after we spoke to them um then we had uh a couple of couple of other podcasters on that month we had Sarah from type 40 talking with us about the nth doctor we had Martin havl talking to us about or with us about Torchwood um and then we did a a look back at the paradise of death we're heading right back into the 60th anniversary uh feature by looking back at anniversary stories and of course the last one for that month we had five

16:23 episodes in September uh we were looking doing a retrospective of the Pirates so would that would I be correct in assuming that that would be your standout for the month well I was going to say having a good Goss with Lan John was probably a major standout at the start of the month um yeah it's been a while since you I caught up with with Lou and um yeah always love a good gos session with her um and John's is crazy a so I love Lov love time with him and we've had a couple times with him this year different things but yeah doing the Pirates retrospective it's a favorite of mine in terms of of of shows and just be able to chat with such a wide range of people about the show so you know we had some really amazing interviews from all sorts of people involved in the production behind and in front and

17:10 behind the microphone and yeah that was a real Joy being able to do that yeah absolutely all right October uh was a good one too because we we spoke with another Blake seven person Brian Croucher we had Conrad westm coming on to talk about car's uh and his time with big Finnish and his life in general um and we looked at the villains Trilogy uh we also had Gary Russell on to talk about Z Gras so any standouts in particular there's a couple of big standouts for me that month wow just so that's amazing I mean Brian Croucher was fantastic so I think of all the first two seasons now we' we've managed to speak to all the surviving or

17:56 just about um or bar one and that's unfortunately going to happen um so that that's I guess we're very blessed and privileged to have been able to chat with all the surviving BL seven people should we haven't be able to get a few more early on um I'm going to start thinking about work in season three and four soorry uh C and D for the BL s purists why would you number things AB BCD I don't know really BBC um so Brian Croucher was certainly and it was an interesting I mean you never quite know what you're going to get when you do these interviews and often they take you down a different path than you expect and Brian Crouch was certainly one that took me down a different path to everything I prepared for which is okay I it's you know J be did the same thing

18:43 um occasionally you just go go off on some interesting tangents and you're never quite sure if you're going to get back again the villains told because we spoke to all three writers cubc oh no we didn't talk to all the writers no we we spoke to Ian cubc on that one um but we had Gary Russell talking a little bit when we we had him on the following month talking about or we had him later talking about Zas but we cut a little bit in with Gary talking about the villain Trilogy well I had in my head that we managed to speak to all the writers each of the three writers for that you're you're thinking of the 1963 Trilogy I think oh yes okay I'm I'm good grief I've got no idea what we did this year I'm so we've done too much done too much

19:29 we need a rest what what else do for you that month Wayne well the the big standout for me was Conrad westmass what a joy to talk to Conrad um he coming back such a such a lovely guy and he is coming back next month in the in the sarons versus rutin box set which is going to be awesome and um yeah it was a really a really popular episode too so lots of super popular episode I mean and Conrad really once again it it took us down a slightly different path to where where I was expecting to go and he just because he was so open honest we were actually able to discuss some stuff that he's never discussed with anyone us before and I think you

20:14 know and he was you know we we checked out with him afterwards are you happy for this to go in you know um and I think because of that his honesty and just being open it allows very endearing yeah exactly and just discussing things that yeah often don't get discussed and that's part of what we try to do we often try and show a different side or show a more complete side of those people come to the program rather than a very now narrow view we try and show a much broader View and often we go in strange you know strange directions but I'm all about just you know ideally just letting the guest speak and let's see where we go so in November oh mentioned before I go to November that the last one for for October was Gary Russell talking about Z Grace which was fascinating to talk

20:59 about yes about such a important story to me I think it's it's still my favorite anniversary story uh for for many different reasons but it was great to get some background from Gary on that so moving on to November uh we're well and truly into anniversary season time now we we did some episodes on our own talking about uh the toy maker in the companion Chronicle solitire we we reviewed the star Beast the big finish adaptation it then we did the 1963 Trilogy and we that's where we spoke to all three authors we had Eddie Robson Johnny Morris and John Dorney on for that one um and the last uh I think the last yes the last main episode for November was Nick

21:46 Briggs talking about the light at the end which I'm glad you pressed me to do it because we had done that story before on a on a random oids and I wasn't going to to do it but you pressed me and we got Nick to come on and join us and that was a lovely episode I I still think the light at the end is the most anniversary of anniversary stories you can have so it's it's up there with the three doctors the five doctors and then the light at the end because of what it does I I I mean as said I love Z gra I think it's a wonderful anniversary story I love the Giggle and the specials we' just had I think their anniversary stories too I think sometimes people get a bit narrow in their view about what an anniversary story should look like I think there is at large range but the at the end is just glorious with you know the doctors and the Companions and

22:31 they're mixing together and and even the you know I said it was made today the first second and third doctor would all have a much even bigger role but they still actually play a significant role in that story so I was so glad to listen to it again because it to me it's just the perfect anniversary story and and in my head I was just ticking off all the people we've talked to you know Colin Baker Sylvester McCoy India Fisher Louise Jameson um Jeffrey beavers you just you know you work through the cast oh yeah oh you done that done that you dick Briggs ticking them all off John Dorney um you just think wow we are just so fortunate and as as I listen now to stories like that having spoken to the actors spoken to the writers it just means all the more so for December we've done two

23:18 episodes so far this is the third one for December uh the first one we look back at ber Summerfield an very important character in terms of audio uh because even though she's sort of older than the audio she's been with big Finnish for 25 years this year so we had a look back at um Love and War the first story that she appeared in as a novel and this was the big Finnish novel adaptation of that story um and then our last episode Phillip maybe this is the standout episode for you for the year I don't know but we had India Fisher on last week and uh what a joy she was to talk to what a lovely lady she really is and yeah stand I don't know whether she's stand out or not but this we I still

24:06 can't believe who we've spoken to just being reminded this year what we've had we've had a big year and we finished big we started big we finished big and there's some big stuff that start us off next year as well so what what a joy and just I'm still still just can't believe I'm here week by week chatting with some of these people and with you of course just on the Love and War episode one thing that really uh made me smile I love it when we can we can get our friends and fellow fans to look a little bit further into something and I saw a tweet from someone who said I just listened to the audio Sirens episode and I'm now on the big finish website looking at all the Benny releases and that was just a thrill if if we can you know get more people turned on to these

24:52 great stories then I think that's our job done yeah I agree and yeah I yes I agree what I was going to say keep listening to audio it's brilliant all right let's jump on up out of the rabbit hole and we're going to talk about once and future all seven episodes uh the first episode that came out was released in May so there've been monthly releases and um before we start talking about the first one which is called past lives uh I will read the blurb the time War the doctor has been injured and brought to a Time Lord field hospital his body glows with energy but this is no regeneration into a future form instead the doctor's past faces begin to appear as he flits haphazardly

25:39 between incarnations staggering to his tardus the doctor sets out to solve the mystery of his de generation who has done this to him how and why from the Earth to the Stars across an array of familiar times and places he follows Clues to retrace his steps and encountering old friends and enemies along the way tumbling through his lives the doctor must stop his degeneration before he loses himself completely settling as his fourth Incarnation the doctor goes in search of the monk with a vague memory that he had something to do with his degeneration on Earth the Monk Is meddling bringing Sarah Jane Smith to the Future unit HQ to steal a device for an alien race the doctor must help Kate

26:25 Stewart and OSG good foil an invasion before he can confront the monk about what he knows from Big finish Productions ah no it's wrong it's all gone wrong Doctor Who Once and Future Past lives I think it's the doctor sir help me we have to stop it I must fight it I must resist right first things first what's the current situation doctor short-term memory scramble Tardis bruised and reproachful regeneration cycle all over the place I

27:11 say Sarah Jane Smith you look lost oh it's you hello there doctor okay let B St oh wonderful hello Dr Panella OSG Good At Your Service you might say I'm re visiting a past life doctor how far back do you go I'm suffering from the effects of some sort of degeneration weapon finally our time has come we've drawn attention to ourselves arm the Cannons shoot that thing out of the sky it's coming right for us isn't it yes at quite considerable speed perhaps we should it's too late big finish for the love of stories

27:57 lives by Robert Valentine the director was Helen Goldwin music and sound design by Harold Carter script edit Matt fitton it was recorded on the 2nd of February 2021 released May 2023 this was actually the second of all the stories to be recorded and goes back a couple of years as you can hear starring Tom Baker as the doctor S Miller as San Smith Jenna Redgrave as Kate lith Stewart inget Oliver as OSG good and Rufus how as the Monk I'm also got Dan starky in it as Pap father cast and in terms of other doctors Colin Baker Peter Davon Sylvester McCoy Steven Nan Tim T tror and Michael trouton all make cameos but the main doctor in this one is Tom Baker

28:42 with Sarah Jane Smith Kate Osgood and the monk thank you Philip now as far as anniversary stories go I think once in future really does tick the bo boxes and it's not this is not an anniversary story for fans of the TV series new or classic It's a combination It's a combination of classic new and big finish so I've seen criticism out there that this once and future is just like a checkbox of you know it's like an extended trailer for all the different ranges that they've got but I think that this is doing exactly what anniversaries should do and it's bringing all those elements together and and the story is

29:29 not like as as I read the blurb the story is not that complex the doctor's degenerating and he's trying to solve the mystery as to why and how and where and when how how this all came about and each of the episodes he's sort of looking for the next clue so in this one as it said he's got a vague memory of the monk somehow being involved obviously he goes back in search of the monk but the monk has picked up Sarah Jane Smith played by S Miller and I think in this case uh the star of this one for me would be Sadi Miller she has somehow nailed Sarah Jane like never before this is almost a perfect performance this one there's so much emotion at because

30:14 and spoilers everyone please make sure you listen to this because there will be spoilers on the way oh yes spoilers for everything spoilers for everything part part of what makes this so charming and the emotional impact is the fact that the fourth doctor well it's not the fourth doctor it's I think it's the eighth Doctor Who be generating and kind of say I wonder whether they would have got away with this um had they not started the Productions in 2020 I don't know when Russell took over when he had the idea of his by generation but it's interesting that you know before you know the Chang of regenerations we have this decent Generations which mind I think it been done something similar been done in Doctor Who magazine 30 years ago about the same time as the star Beast there's a there's is a um Doctor Who comic where the doctor's going backwards through these

31:00 regenerations that from I think which doctor I think it might be from the fifth doctor backwards where was the fourth doctor but there was a similar thing done in do magazine decades ago um but the whole idea of a degeneration where the doctor's actually flitting his body keeps changing backwards and forwards with his clothing being done too which is interesting interesting they because in the um the anniversary specials just on they never mentioned why David ten clothing changed with him when he regenerated from jod I expected there was going to be there would be some point but it was never covered and in this all the characters clothing is changing with them as well so who knows what that is but it was interesting that this degeneration allows for every doctor to appear but not at the same time but it's

31:46 yeah it's beauti it goes on but Tom Baker who's the playing this is his M he comes back again this is his main story in the range he picks up sah Jane Smith um on the moment just on the same day he's just dropped off in Hand of fear and so for him because he's he's the well isn't isn't that the monk that picks her up well so you're right so she gets picked up by the monk you're right but they they meet up again on the same day so so the fourth doctors changed from the fourth the fifth the sixth the 7th the eth this is is during the time it's actually the let's spoil this completely it's the War Doctor Who's degenerating so it's on the eth yeah beyond the eth so it's the War Doctor going through all these generations and

32:33 so it's been hundreds of years since Sarah Jane Smith is gone but for Sarah it's minutes since she's just left the doctor and it's her coming to terms with the fact of what do you mean you never came to see me again because at this point she hasn't seen you know we do know that Sarah will Rec connect with the doctor but at this point she's thinking that he's never bothered to come back to her having just dropped off and how when we've had this relationship so s played that so well and played an emotions so well yeah and an interesting combination because each one of these stories has a combination of you know sometimes big Finnish characters classic characters new series characters all in together and the and the combination of Sarah Jane with um new unit under Kate

33:19 lethridge Stewart and Os good uh is is an interesting one I think uh I think it works really I always like OSG good as I've said previously I'm not the biggest fan of of Kate leth Stewart but um but when she's there with OSG good I think that that is a good it is a good jeer they bounce off each other very well and in combination with the monk Rufus Hound's monk has been in many many stories for big finish now and originally the monk was played by Graham Garden but then uh maybe he's he's too old to do it now I don't know maybe he's retired uh but ru's hand has come in and he's like he's like the perfect combination of like Peter Butterworth and Graham Garden you put those two together it's like like you get Rufus hound and uh I think that works really

34:05 well too I recently watched again the girl who waited the Peter Kali story which Rufus Hound is in so it was interesting seeing Rufus Hound acting live but as as you say I think this is such a great anniversary because it's a combination of original TV series Tom Baker it's got the recast Sarah Jane Smith and the monk by big Finnish and it's got new series in terms of Kate and OSG good and so just having that that the total mix of those different areas scenarios yeah it's a clever show and and there's not a lot in it because I mean the main point I think this story is is trying to make is um that the doctor knows the Monk Is present except the monk works out it's a future Monk and so he's now he's now warned in terms

34:51 of oh when this when this happens this is what I need to tell you and so it's sort of the knows what has to happen in the future because the earlier doctors told him what's going on that's right yeah so the clue at the end of this one that that sort of ties this to the next story is the monk suggest to the doctor that he go and find someone with the same genetic makeup and so we move on to the next story so shall I read the blur for that sounds great uh the next one's called the artist at the End of Time suffering the effects of degeneration the doctor head towards the end of the universe in search of answers instead he finds his daughter Jenny and an artist whose Works appear to Mark the end of every World they touch the doctor

35:37 St advises into his fifth form to join forces with Jenny and the curator to solve the mystery of the final gallery and the art it has collected gathered in this Gallery the final artworks produced by the world's now sadly silenced by time from big finish Productions Doctor Who Once and Future the artist at the end of time you wouldn't happen to have any timel DNA in this Gallery would you you show me stuff something is wrong what are you doing at this end of time I bounced off a Time War you well actually I came here to find myself this universe is dying he

36:23 finished his painting just as the world ended really killing worlds as he makes art how will you face your death the last Creations in the universe a diamond Among the Stars a tardis at the end of time who are you who are you big finish for the love of Stories the doctor spent lifetimes saving worlds but there comes a time when the magic stops working the artist at the End of Time by James Goss this was directed by Ken Bentley the music was by how Carter as was a sound design it's associate producer I might mention

37:10 is Georgia tenant so whenever Georgia tendance in one of her shows she is always act as an associate producer I'm not quite sure what changes City producer for the whole range is John anworth um it's it was recorded on the 26th of July and the 19th and the 20th of September 2022 so this was actually one of the most recent ones to be recorded only a year ago and it's strange it's got three different days for recording most of them only have the one recording day so I'm guessing that none of the casts could actually get together for this but then they seem to be so I don't quite understand how the recoring happened we good to ask someone of that question it starts Peter Davis as the doctor george tenant as Jenny Colin Baker as the curator and also the sixth doctor and aside from that there's um appearances by Michael trouton timra

37:56 la and Stephen Nunan and a couple of other parts is played by John toer and Abby Harris but it really is about the doctor and the Creator and with Jenny as well yeah Philip I think this one was specifically written to get Georgia tenant and her and Peter Davidson together in the same story cuz that just would be fun to have the real life doctor and daughter uh playing the fictional doctor and daughter yeah and James gos throws in some few fun lines with that relationship there absolutely and that's and that's what this series does it it's it's not it is not the greatest story in the world but no none of the anniversary stories ever are should I should mention too that the the first three doctors

38:43 regularly appear in they they appear in most of the of the episodes in cameos at the start or the end actually Steven Nunan has a larger role towards the end uh in one of them um but yeah none of them are going to get the whole a whole CD to themselves so that's right they do they do use those three a lot because yeah none of them are going to have a whole story like each each of the main television doctors gets their own story yeah which is a bit of a shame but then it would have been a instead of a seven-part epic it would have been a 10p part epic and that would have been 10 months long you know it would have been yeah dragging it on a bit I guess but um as far as the story goes yeah

39:30 it's it's an interesting story it's got a it's got a typical James Goss kind of world view or Universe view to it uh with a with a James gos style twist at the end um got but lots of use of the curator as well which is interesting because we've got Colin Baker featured here as the curator which is a different role to the doctor he's a bit more well obviously he's he's older he's the yeah acts the physical age that Colin Baker is now rather than the younger or the more youthful six doctor um but yeah it was good to get those two together and these stories these combinations allow those lines to come out so you have anniversary Throwbacks

40:17 to you know to past stories or in jokes lots of in jokes things like that so these stories are for are typically for for fans they're not for casual not for casual listeners um so you've got to know your Doctor Who stuff to sort of know all the lines and you can probably go back and hear stuff that you hadn't heard the previous listen as well yeah I'd recommend if you enjoy this story go and listen to Bernie Summerfield in the extin extinction event um there's a story there which is about Benny and it's actually lots of similarities there's um auctions happening of of items that are the last items of certain planets before they've been destroyed so an extintion event is something that makes a planet extinct and this this

41:04 this this house this is Auction House selling different goods and one person turns up trying to murder people um he's the last he's actually Survivor of one of these extension events trying to get back a piece of property so yeah it's there's some strong similarities between those two stories and this one but it's it's fascinating in terms of trying to work out what's going on that why everywhere the Creator goes suddenly the planet is wiped out and there some lovely scenes on Orion I think the um the stuff on Orion is probably the stuff that warmed my heart the most because it felt like the five doctors and once again that's that anniversary no the five doctors you can totally visualize it yeah H exactly and and just similar lines and the iron storms and the it's just beautifully done so yeah James gos has really a lovely

41:50 story also interesting that the events of the giggle could sort of us the origin of of the curator as well is the 14th doctor going to go off and be the Cur curator who knows there's a there's a the a different curator Well yeah if you listen to the um commentary by Ros T Davis he's actually saying that every doctor continues on and gets old and so it makes a lot more sense of the old Tom Baker and the old Colin Baker and Etc if that's that is is true but it's not been on screen yet so it doesn't have to be Cannon yet very good okay well let's move on to the next story in the series Story three which is a Seventh Doctor adventure with along with Teran Mallo Davos called a genius

42:36 for war here's the blur in the midst of the time War the time Lords have received a communication from falus the prison Moon of Scaro its sole inmate Davos wishes to make them an offer he will help them win the time War but only if the doctor comes to his room rescue from Big finish Productions Doctor Who Once and Future a genius for war this is Davos calling gyre repeat this is Davos calling cifre the general I have been appointed to conduct your briefing I was in the middle of something you know but no pla

43:22 me out of time drag me halfway across the universe without so much as a Biol leave we wouldn't use the time scoop to bring you here unless your presence was absolutely unavoidable the garlic Emperor has accused me of treason I trust Davos about as far as I could throw him instead I have been incarcerated on falus the first moon of Scaro he must be desperate liberate me from captivity and I will help you defeat the DX you think it's a trap I wish to be rescued by the time lord known as the doctor so now I know why I'm here to

44:10 save Davos fire well let's get going shall we all darling units to disembark and secure falus Mor The Matrix has pred did the time War can only end with mutual Extinction you can appreciate that we are eager to avoid that outcome The Matrix can be wrong The Matrix predicted the war the ttis passed through a temporal breach I offer you the means to end the time War I offer you Victory big finish for the love of stories your appearance corresponds with the time lord known as the doctor you are the enemy of the DX

44:58 it's the first line on my CV current deployment the oncoming storm a genius for War by Jonathan Morris directed by Helen Goldwin and music by Howard Carter and sound designed by Howard Carter as well it's it was recorded on the 30th of September 2022 released July 3 so once again this is quite a recent one star Sylvester McCoy as the doctor Ken bones as the general Nicholas Briggs as the DX and Beth Charmers as beckan there also most importantly Terry Malloy as [Music] Davos also it's also Cameo appearances

45:44 by the first the second and the third doctors very good so when did you say this was recorded So this was recorded 30th of September 2022 so last year in September I think this might be the last I I didn't mean to check the order I think this was the last one recorded right okay no I actually wrote notes on this one believe it or not I actually sat down and wrote some notes but it also happens to be my favorite one out of all seven I just love this one because I always loved Terry Malloy as DAV Ross uh and I have enjoyed Ken bones as General in everything I hear I think his voice is amazing so at the opening of this I I'll go through my notes as quickly as I can in the

46:30 opening of the story there's a musical uh sympathy to trial of a Time Lord so you get the same opening Style music that that Howard Carter does um and we find that the the space station has a name the the trial of a Time Lord space station it's called space station Zenobia which is really interesting and it's been decommissioned but whipped sideways in time into the time War so they can use it uh for for this and Other Stories I guess um there's a there's a desperation that I've never been a huge fan of the of the time War stuff um I find it a little bit

47:16 complicated and confusing but I thought it was interesting that vean and the general were willing to do anything to to stop the to stop the time War and I guess there's a lot more of that in the in the time War Stories which I have heard most of them and Gala Fray war room at the moment War beIN and the general are playing Major roles in in galf Fray the War Room yeah so we because it's set on the moon of Scaro there's a there's a little a a few little interesting things there where there's careds on there I'm thinking where did these careds come from it finds out we find out that the careds are actually clones um that uh that DAV Ross has has recreated and there's musical stings

48:03 there so the musical stings relating to the trial of a Time Lord scenes but Howard Carter's also emulated some of the Genesis of the D music stings as well I don't know if you picked up on that Phillip did you pick up on that while you're listening to that so I thought that was really really good there's I was because I was listening to this with my headphones there's one scene um I think it's with the doctor and Davos just talking and Davos is moving around the room and it it he's just his voice is moving around your head it's incredible sound design uh so it really really impressed me um and particularly Davos in the tardus control room too I thought that was that was really well realized uh in sound as well so we've got references to the hybrid so

48:50 people who like that particular era of new series uh who uh the hybrids in there too um I was a bit sad that space station was destroyed lots of stuff happened there that was not always good but it was that it was uh but it was nice uh when it while it lasted um where are we oh yeah and towards the end we've got the final scenes from Genesis of the DX emulated there as well with um Terry Malloy saying some of the same lines um it just reminds us diard fans who voted Genesis of the AL number one which wasn't me um but I still know the story very well um so we also go to the lake

49:38 of mutations as well and is this is this the first time we get a reference to the diamond in the stars I think in this story which comes out much more later on so yeah I could listen to Beth Charmers and Ken bones all day long I love this one I think this is probably the most stand alone of all the stories because I mean it's sort of the doctors taking out of time to deal with the situation it's all Adventure it's all action-packed I I think I mentioned I missed this on the way through the first time I I don't I downloaded and just didn't listen to it and so when I went back to have a relist to do this it was brand new and it so I can't tell what it's my favorite or not because it was special because I hadn't

50:23 heard it before and it was like a discovery like like like a lost story returned um so I don't know how I missed the first time but then once I was into it it was just so loud exciting action-packed D Ro is just fantastic yeah it it was amazing but I I don't know it's because I missed it the first time through it it's but in terms of it's it's up there as one of the best stories and I yeah this is the one I want to go back and listen to again yeah absolutely all right so move on to the next indeed the next one is called tw's company back on Earth the doctor finds a clue in the search for the origins of the degeneration weapon in his sixth body he meets Jackie Tyler and Lady Christina duza thrown together

51:10 by fate or something more in pursuit of a powerful item of jewelry meanwhile a Time Lord Renegade has duped har Harry Sullivan into helping him stop the doctor's travels before they begin and all are set on a collision call from Big finish Productions Doctor Who Once and Future to's company degenerating I'm fluctuating between incarnations in no discernable order L he size in this place like a mansion that sound you must recognize it Harry who do you answer to to you Doctor a future you I'm looking for lady Christina duza stay right way you are

51:55 and put your hands on your head oh Behave is your mom in the place is booby trapped excellent I love a challenge ah you don't improve with age Sullivan doctor what is that motorbike helmet sorry about your curs Goldilocks a side car you're having a giraffe a degenerative weapon I wonder big finish for the love of stories who's accompanied by Lisa mcmellon director was Helen Goldwin for this one and once again music and sound designed by Howard Carter mat F being the script editor

52:41 this one Stars Colin Baker um Tim to is the third doctor and has some scial stuff to do as well but it's mainly Colin Baker story as the doctor this time also starring CA caduri as Jackie Tyler and Michelle Ryan as lady Christina and as mention Christopher nayor playing Harris Elan and the Renegade is played by Michael Maloney of course the M the Renegade is just so we don't give away this the plot of who the Renegade really is because it's someone we know what do you think of this one BR loved it because that casting didn't spoil it for me on the first listen but I'm going to spoil it for you now uh and it's in the title to's company and as the story was progressing I'm going of course of course it's an early adventure for who we originally were introduced to

53:28 as the 11 the time lord who when he regenerates retains the personalities of the previous so he's like a uh a Time Lord with multiple personality disorder uh and sometimes these incarnations assert themselves but this is the second Incarnation so he's only got one other Incarnation inside throughout this um but what a what a pairing I loved the pairing of Camille kaduri and and uh Chris lady Christina they were so funny if you can get through the scene where they are just cracking up I don't know what they're saying but they're just laughing and it just seems to go on and on and it's just perfect perfect if you like Jackie Tyler then this is the one for you I was thinking all the way through

54:14 that Jackie and Lady Christina what an amazing box that that would be because you have two characters and actresses from very different worlds who talk so differently and yet they just like each other and respect each other and the two of them were just giving the poor doct hell which is part of the draw of it all in terms of yeah I mean Colin Bak is a big I mean he needed you needed it to be a big doctor to deal with those two characters because they're both so big and so large um once again it's that beautiful mix of classic do who with new Doctor Who with big Finnish um throwing thrown together Chris na is har salivan you know beautifully competently played he he I thought this was one of his best

55:00 performances as say I think has a real charm in this um I'm not sure did I mention the fact this is recorded in so this was recorded April 2021 um they're not released to August 2023 so this is another fairly early really early recorded one um but yeah just everyone has played so well together and yeah Michael Maloney as the two just played him really really well in some way it's a pretty normal plot of you know the two discovers his future the doctor's going to be a problem and so decides well I'll kill him now and you know it's never going to work but the other that's it puts in play is the fact of and it's a bit of a red hering herring that the two hears about the degenerate weapon weapon for the first time so immediately going oh hang on a

55:46 second if the two's heard about this then it must be maybe it's a future um one of the two that's going to cause all the problems and so there's all these things being put in along the way going oh I wonder if that's what's going on here um but to me the standard he just the performances Colin Baker Camille caduri Michelle Ry those three together are just spectacular yeah so bit of a bit of a heist story of course if you got lady Christina but yeah you're right this combination was just really really enjoyable even though it wasn't overly plot heavy just the the way they Spar off each other was just Sensational and the and the twist that got that did get me that the two was the two uh I really enjoyed that

56:32 too okay one thing I should mention is that I bought the special editions and with those you get extended extras that's the main uh benefit of getting the extended and I didn't have the issues people were seeming to have issues with the packaging but because I've got download only I did that obviously didn't affect me but I know they were ugly covers can I just say the the the special edition ones special edition covers were just awful well because I've got to say I I like the standard edition ones better yeah that's what say the standard edition covers were beautiful and you know they were bright with color in all the characters as opposed to these dull drub you know backtack heads and faces oh I mean

57:19 Diamond logo it just yeah I I just wish on my on the app I had the option to switch the cover to The Standard Edition cuz it's much nicer it is much nicer well i' you know I often download them on to my Apple music and I I changed the covers in that so my Apple music is showing the righted covers even though I've got the standard even though I got the special edition yeah but definitely worth getting the special edition for the extended extras that's for sure yeah okay let's move on to the next story story number five uh this one's called The Martian invasion of planetoid 50 the first doctor arrives in Victorian London admid a martian Invasion but he discovers All Is Not What It Seems when

58:05 Missy appears soon the doctor is propelled into a future Incarnation the 10th but he's not alone in battling Missy and her Martian Invaders the patosa gang Madame vastra Jenny flint and Strax are also here to assist but can they offer the doctor any help in solving his own degeneration mystery scanner indicates that you may have been the doctor at some point or that you may be in the future that's because I'm stuck in a mid degenerative State probably from Big finish Productions Doctor Who Once and Future the Martian invasion of planetoid 50 I think I must be a future face mistress the alarm has been

58:51 triggered really has it really no I simply will not accept it something is very wrong now listen I have some questions I want to see if your answers are any different to Jessies where are we and when are we London Earth Victorian ER but I always wanted a pet lizard oh look you've not touched your food sorry have we met other head like swiss cheese oh well look at you I was hoping for one of the classics time itself along with our memories appears out of joint it's them do doctor it's the Martians that thing's using it heat rate everyone out before it burns this place to the ground come

59:37 on they're coming lots of them because only one time lord would ever do something so mind-bogglingly time consuming ridiculous they you say such pretty things big finish For the Love of stories oh my dear doctor you have been naive the invasion of Planet toy 50 by Jonathan Barnes this one's directed back to Ken Bentley again he and Helen Goldman are sharing director duties backwards and forwards music and sound design by Howard Carter and script was Matt fitton recorded this is the

1:00:22 earliest one recorded on the 10th of October 2020 released in September 2023 so this is by far the first recorded and it's recorded during lockdown while David Tenant was hugely available so during that huge period of time when they were just pumping out story after Story for David Tenant they decided to get this one in there as well so David Tenant play the 10th doctor Melle Gomez is Missy it's got the Panos gang with nerve Macintosh as man of vestra Dan St tracks kayen Stewart as Jenny Jenny FL and it also has uh Steven Nunan temp law as the first and the third doctor and Hannah genesus I pron genes I think I have as to see me

1:01:08 more so as I said 10th Doctor manest Jenny STX and Missy so this is the story that uh Steven nunan's first doctor gets quite a sizable portion of the story at the opening maybe 10 or 15 minutes uh he's in the first uh bit of it before he settles on the 10th doctor and finally the degeneration effect is propelling the incarnations forward rather than backwards so apart from the first doctor and a bit of a cameo from Tim tror at the end uh we've got no combinations of any Classic series elements here uh in this doctor we've only got the 10th doctor in Missy and the ponosa Gang with Missy and the ponosa Gang being almost

1:01:55 contemporaries of the new series and the 10 10th doctor not being not far behind what do you think of this combination it was it was interesting the 10th doctor with Missy because Missy is very much designed for Peter Cap's doctor um the Masters and doctors go together and and so you so John Sims was it was the master for David Tenant so it's interesting seeing Missy with David Tenant but once again even Miss's not quite normal either because we work out the Miss's actually also been hit She's suffering with the degeneration too but right did was it was it established which Master it was that she was at the time was it a it was a past Master wasn't it could have been could have

1:02:41 even been anley so she was dropping anley lines here and there so yes could have been that one don't know even though anley wasn't technically a to but no I I would need to double think I can't remember whether not but once again it was Michelle had also been hit by the Missy had also been hit by the weapon and but yeah it was interesting seeing them I mean Michelle Gomez is just such an amazing actress and just does such things um and so you know C J B the first actually threw me a bit because because she was under my control for the first half and so she was therefore speaking in a really flat voice I really struggled to realize it was Jenny because she wasn't sounding like Jenny because she'd lost her accent with the mind control um but aside from that the

1:03:27 Beautiful Moments Dan starky does another amazing job um yeah it's it's a it's a good listen it's a fun little story um and then just you know the whole question of this one was was missing hit as well um all these questions being you know being raised um but the whole premise of the war The War of the Worlds and what misses up to is hilarious in a bizarre way so it it's is the War of the Worlds because there's the tripods there's Alien Invasion but there's little twists along the way too and then you start working out oh Missy what are you up to but it's yeah it's it's it's it goes very bizarre um Jonathan Barnes is really WR a very unique left of field

1:04:14 story with this one but once again it's the dialogue that everyone fires off each other you wouldn't even know that Michelle Gomez was a continent away doing her recording at the time it just sounds like she's there in the room so um she as you said yeah I was going to say that too she's such a amazing actor what a what a performance as Missy yeah but I don't know if I was suffering when I relistened I might have been suffering a little bit for some uh David Tenant burnout I don't know but it was like oh David Tenant again sorry that's a okay all right shall we move on to the next one let's Okay story six in Once

1:05:00 and Future Time Lord immemorial slipping between bodies the Ninth Doctor finds his tardus caught between universes as the cosmos starts to break down a doctor from another reality arrives and they join forces with Liv chanka and the lumat to find the cause someone has desecrated the mythical Hall of the time lord immemorial where the sands of time from the Multiverse are held and those Sands are running out once upon a G from Big finish Productions Doctor Who Once and Future Time Lord immemorial what have you done to my console room this is my console room you're trespassing you're from an

1:05:46 alternate universe or rather you are we were friends a long time ago I've changed a lot since then what was that degeneration you said degenerating is like a sort of reverse regeneration so s it's pouring through the walls silans they look like an army the sands of time are running out and they're starting to March time itself is unraveling they're gaining on us talk about quicksand right here he goes wait for me oh my it can't be it is

1:06:36 it's the Hall of the time lord immemorial the doctor always the doctor big finish for the love of stories I'm the lumat would you mind terribly giving me a hand to save the Multiverse Time Lord in Memorial by Lis McMullen as usual Sam old crew have done most of this I will mention different different director again well back to Helen Goldwin and written by Lisa McMullin I'm sure I mentioned that before this one's recorded on the 18th of November 2021 released October 2023 this one actually starred Christopher eklon as the Doctor David Warner as the doctor from the other alternative universe who we know through the bu Summerfield stories um G mcke as

1:07:24 the lumad um Robert pal as the time Memorial and as the companion Nicola Walker as Li Chena so it's an interesting mix of people wow now when I saw the cover for this when I saw it's a multi doctor story like Eon said he would never do um it's kind of a little bit different to a multi-doctor story but you know what I mean uh kind we kind of we kind of got a mul Story the second one with the with Peter Davis and Colin B and the curator yeah so there was kind of a m doctor story and this is of well I think this one's probably actually more of a mul doctor story than that one because the C is not really clear whereas they're both in on the adventure

1:08:09 these are two these are two established doctors who are together the whole time as doctors and of course David Warner's doctor is very established in big finish um as is the character of Li chka Nicola Walker and The lumat who I think the lumat may have appeared in Doom Coalition for the first time is that right yes I believe so yes yeah so the lumat is a a future good incarnation of the master uh which uh so it's interesting combination here and when I saw Robert Powell I thought wow this is fantastic he's never been a big finish and Robert pal such a huge name I thought of uh I thought this is this is going to be great but I got to say Phillip out of all seven of these this one is the most disappointing to me I found the story

1:08:56 really difficult to follow difficult to understand of course the chemistry is there and the with the dialogue they're sparring off each other but I found the story so incomprehensible uh and I felt that Robert pal in particular was wasted as the time old IM Memorial um David Warner I don't know if it was the last thing he recorded I don't think it was the last thing he recorded but he he wasn't sounding overly well either which is not his fault obviously but Robert Powell I think that was that was my biggest disappointment that he didn't have a a bigger role his voice was treated so you didn't get to hear his voice properly throughout so but I mean I thought about I thought yeah this is this is also a lockdown story as well so I think they're remotely recording um so I was I was forgiving it

1:09:45 on certain points for that but I found it just really incomprehensible this one and I don't think it really did anything to serve the plot of overall well I'm not sure mus thems do much to serve the plot to be perfectly honest overall I think the number of plot devices that link them all together is very slim it's it's the bad wolf of um linking materials um I I actually really enjoyed it I really enjoyed the pairings um I mean you know Chris ecken and D Warner when they were together were superb and I loved how they bounced bounced off each other I think when Nicola did too I did too I it's just the story that got

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