Gavin Newsom - Governor of California | SRS #218

0:00 [Music] What? What is this? What's this? Gavin Newsome. It's good to be with you, man. Welcome to the show. It's great to be here with you. Well, this is a very uh unexpected interview. Come on. What do you What do you mean? Guy from California. A coastal elite. Hey, I've had a lot of coastal elites on lately in the tech space. But um That's true. In the tech space. Yeah. I imagine your audience is ecstatic that I'm on your show. Oh, um, sure they will be. But, um, no, in all honesty, I I just I really appreciate you coming. And, um, you know, I've been wanting somebody that thinks a little different than me and it's maybe on the opposite side of the fence. And, uh, I couldn't I've tried and I couldn't get

0:46 anybody, you know, for the last election. and I I I paid myself out to be somebody that talks to everybody, which been extremely hard uh to get somebody that thinks differently than me. So, I appreciate you coming. No, I appreciate it. And look, man, I appreciate your openness cuz I I say to everybody all the time, divorce is not an option, man. We got to we got to live together and advance together across our differences. So, no BS. I mean, this is critical that because this zero sum, everyone talking past each other, down to each other. I mean, our kids are going to model that and it's just not sustainable. Yeah. You know, America has become very tribal in the past 8 12 years and uh just seems to be getting more and more amplified. And so, you know, what I

1:33 what I really hope comes out of this is that people can use this as an example of how to talk to each other. I love it. And uh because I think we've lost that uh in America. So kudos to you balls for showing up today and uh I do I do appreciate it. I love it. But um I'm going to start you off with an introduction here. Beautiful. Not that you need one. Jesus. Let's hear this. I'm curious where you're going to go with it. Gavin Newsome, the 40th governor of California, leading the nation's most populous state since 2019 and the fourth largest economy in the world. Eat your heart out, Japan. a former mayor of San Francisco, a businessman who built the Plumpjack Group, turning a winery into a hospitality empire, host of the podcast. This is Gavin Newsome,

2:19 where we've sat down to discuss issues with those you disagree with. A husband to Jennifer and a father of four children. We're probably going to disagree on a few things here, but like I said, thank you for showing up. I appreciate introduction and talks about my kids. You you already you won me over on that, man. That's that's that's real bio stuff. That's what it's all about, right? Yeah. I mean, come on. That's that's the obituary stuff, not the resume stuff. That's the stuff that matters. Yeah. But um so I'm wondering if you're Did you come here to uh hang out with the 92,000 Californians that Oh, you got you're hitting me right there, man. The California exits. By the way, complete [ __ ] Now, the last two years, we've seen significant growth in California's

3:06 population. So, it's reversed uh and uh record-breaking tourism. Uh now the fourth largest economy in the world. We dominate in every major industry, including the number one manufacturing state in America, 41% larger than the next largest state. Um and so we're really proud of California and we went through a little rocky period over a 2-year period where there was some adjustments all across the country, one of 18 states, many red states, too, not just blue states that saw an adjustment of population during CO. And now we're on the other side of that, seeing population growth backtoback years. Well, it's impressive. California is an impressive state. Even if you hate it, very controversial state as well. But um but yeah, I'd love to dive into some of the co and stuff later, but um

3:53 but a couple things before we get started. So everybody gets a gift. Oh jeez. What do you got, man? Here we go. You ready for this? Look. Oh Jesus. Ready for this? Is this an accident? I got to report this gift, man. That is so that is a California compliant. Oh, Sig Sauer. This E365 macro. Come on, man. I don't know exactly what makes By the way, this is uh this is too cool. The fact that you would give me this up. So, you just want me TSA to take this from me and not ask for the airport. I'm on to you, man. Well, I got a buddy at SIG and I he was like, "You got to get a Sig in his brother. This is fabulous." Um, you know what people last thing people would expect is

4:40 that I respect this gift. Really? I appreciate. Yeah, man. I'm not anti-gun at all. I'm for just some gun safety common sense that I think vast majority of folks to the right and the left agree. And I think we've lost a little touch with some common sense around background checks. I think there's an age appropriateness. Um, I do have some ch, you know, I'm challenged by large capacity magazine clips in urban centers. Um, and uh, you know, weapons of war that are out there sometimes outgunning the police and I've experienced that directly with the loss of a police officer. It was gunned down by an AK-47 and the police were outgunned in Bay Hunter's Point in San Francisco. Uh, but otherwise, man, people have the right to bear arms and I got no ideological opposition to that at all. Do you think I was going to say, by the way, you're welcome.

5:25 That's crazy. The last damn thing I expected I expected a hat. Okay. You gave me a goddamn gun. Well, I got another gift for you, too. Okay. But um but diving into the two-way stuff, I'm just I'm just curious. We see a lot of the cities that don't have that don't that you can't conceal carry or it's extremely hard to get concealed carry or or you know, California being one of them, Illinois, New York. I mean, do you think that everyday citizens carrying a gun reduces crime or increases crime? I think the evidence, the evidence suggests the opposite. It increases the likelihood of a gun death. And you look at all the states with the most comprehensive gun safety reforms. They have lower gun death rates than states

6:11 with weaker gun laws. And there's a correlation there. California is one of the lowest gun death rates in America. Uh the highest murder rates in the country tend to be red states significantly. So you look at the murder rate, eight out of the top 10 uh murder rates cap per capita in the country are all red states. Well, I thought Chicago was the number one. No. Well, as cities, you all have different experiences, but at state levels, gun safety, from our perspective saves lives. And we have the data to bear that out. You look at the common sense gun safety laws that California started establishing in the '9s. You look at our gun death rate from the '9s till today, significant reduction, nationleading reduction in the gun death rate. So that's that's the prison to which I I'm into the data. I'm into the evidence. I'm also deeply mindful and

6:57 respectful uh of the Second Amendment uh and people's constitutional rights. Uh but as it relates to just simple common sense around background the idea we're we're addressing the issue of background checks and we haven't fundamentally addressed some of those gaps for people that are struggling with mental health disorders and the like or substance abuse. Uh I I just don't understand that gap. Well I think I think that the gap is a at least for me I can tell you why it bothers me. I I mean I carry a gun everywhere. I protect to protect myself and my family. appreciate and and you know when when I hear about the the you know background checks and and you know mentally unstable people I mean

7:43 you know a lot of veterans I mean almost all veterans are proun and and and fought for the country and want to be able to own one to protect themselves and their family and especially you know if there's any recourse from those wars which you know we've we've talked about it on here there's supposedly over a thousand sleepers cells of terrorists if they're within our borders and you know but if we go down that road I mean I know for a lot of veterans me included is is you know some people have been diagnosed with PTSD and depression and [ __ ] like that from coming home from combat and so is it you know maybe we start with schizophrenia but then then the next thing is oh well is PTSD going to be on there is depression going to be on there am I going to lose my [ __ ]

8:28 rights you know when I fought for the country because somebody, you know, that that deems me unstable. Well, maybe I'm not, you know, and but a convicted felon, you know, someone that that has had a violent, dangerous past, someone is a domestic abuser, I mean, I'd like to red flag some of those folks. I mean, I can't argue that. Yeah. And so unless we have a system that allows at least some vetting with some objective constraints along the lines which what you suggest I you know it just right now it's so it's just this zero sum games like you're either proun or anti- it's like no that's not the case man there's nuance here and I think if you look I mean you look at I'm not a polling guy but it's interesting when you look at gun safety polling like Fox News polls and these sort of top four controversial

9:14 issues they're overwhelmingly supported bipartisan support for some of these safety measures and I just think it people demagogue this they demagogue on all sides but that you know it's not enduring to a safer country I mean there's no other country in the world that has this kind of gun violence and it suggests we're doing something very differently than the rest of the world everyone has mental health problems it's not unique to the United States of America it's not about that that's not the issue I just think it is the accessibility the suicide rates are off the charts in the United States because of the simple access as well. Um, so look, I it's a it's it's a tough issue. It's very divisive. It's weaponized. Um, again, blue and red, uh, certainly weaponized nationally. Um but

10:01 uh man, lived experience, former mayor living in cities, dense urban centers, uh and looking at the evidence in California uh for as I refer to it, common sense gun safety. Well, let me ask you this then. I mean, I know you want certain weapons restricted and you know, there's the California compliant versions of everything, but it's really hard for people to get a concealed carry permit in California. Yeah. Why is that? Yeah, because I mean I the idea of I mean it just I think there's a cultural construct in California that people just don't want people running around with concealed carry uh and you know folks you're running into in a restaurant, a bar, you're on the BART and Barry Rapid Transit or you're you know you're in the school or in the playground and everyone running around that's got a gun and uh

10:48 you don't know the good guys from the bad guys. I think there's just sort of a a cultural mindset around that, a concern around that. Uh we allow for it. There's a process. There's, you know, law enforcement as a process. By the way, we exempt law enforcement from these gun safety laws in the vast majority of cases along the lines of what you're suggesting as it relates to our veterans and military. There are exceptions to many of the rules that we advance. Uh, but on concealed carry, it's that's, you know, that's been a principle that um we just believe in a permit process that's yeah, admittedly very comprehensive and it's what your state wants. It's what the state I think overwhelmingly wants. Well, I mean, well, I disagree with it. I mean, I do, you know, digging into your background, I mean, I I found a number of things

11:33 that have a number of narratives against you that that there's definitely some nuance on. But one thing that I did find is that it does seem that that whether people want to [ __ ] agree with me or blast me or whatever for saying it, I mean it seems like you're doing what the majority of the population in California wants. And yeah, and I mean look and and it's not look, they don't hire me to be a weather vein, right? I mean I think leadership's defined, you know, they they hire me for judgment and and they want they want leadership. And so it's not about public opinion in that respect, but you have to be sensitive to public opinion. I did two gun safety laws that I actually put on the ballot. So I can validate

12:19 the assertion that I just made. That's where the public is because my gun safety legislation overwhelmingly passed in California. Interesting. And and so that was my initiative. I got out I did signatures and put it in front of the voters. Work with law enforcement on some exceptions and exemptions along the lines that I suggest. Um, and it's been wellreceived. Now, there's certain pockets and camps. They, you know, folks in the gun rights movement, they look, I'm a poster child for them. I get it. Except, you know, what did I do on Mother's Day? I was at Wing and Barrel with my kids with a 9-year-old doing ski shooting. No [ __ ] That's what I did on Mother's Day. Are you any good at it? I'm not good. I'm great at it. Okay. Because I've been doing it for years and years. Or the goddamn record. You can

13:04 laugh. I wish we were doing that right Your wife must be a shooter. She Mother's Day for ski shooting. Mother's Day ski shooting. God is my witness. You got a cool wife. Is and and so with the kids and we're with grandpa and grandma and uh you know that she grew up you know she's we we we got married in Montana. Uh my daughter's name is Montana. Uh family has a ranch out there. We're hunters bow hunting for me uh primarily. Um my son was 11 years old got his first rifle from uh his his grandfather and that was point of pride. It was emotional like my my the attachment the history that attachment to his grandpa now because of that. Um so again I I I I celebrate that and at the same time man running a fourth largest economy in the world size of 21

13:50 state populations combined trying to keep people safe. Um we we have a different approach than many states in the country but the approach is bearing fruit. If you look at gun death rates and murder rates, substantially lower in the state of California and in the vast majority of blue states. Interesting. Interesting. Well, I got another gift for you. What is that? All right, here we go. Jeez. Oh, it's my favorite one. How you going to make up? What is this, man? Vigilance League gummy bears legal in all 50 states. I'm hoping you brought me some California gummy bears, brother. that uh you know, by the way, when I did that gun safety initiative, I also did the uh the legalization uh of cannabis for adult use in California.

14:36 Right on. Uh that mean only reinforces my progressive uh you know, bonafidees or what how you what's that word? Bonafidey, whatever the hell. Uh thank you, man. You're welcome. That's why I'm advertising this. Look at this. You're welcome. And u gummies and a gun. Gummies and a gun. Jesus. Gummies and a gun. What the hell is that? And we just started this But um I want to see what happens at the end. What else? Oh, we got lots of good stuff coming. But um so one last thing to crank out before we get going and um actually before I before I read this question. So I want to do a life story on you and go through your you know go through your life story from childhood all the way up until now. And along the way we will dive into some issues that I know that we disagree on. Awesome. and um and and

15:24 have a beautiful discussion. I love it. Big beautiful discussion. But one thing, so I have a Patreon account. It's a subscription account and uh it's turned into quite the community and uh they've been here with me since the beginning. And so what I do is I offer them the opportunity to ask each anding every guest a question. Oh, interesting. And so I just posted a picture of us at breakfast and about 2 minutes after I did the post. What do you got? Joe Rogan texted me. [ __ ] Joe, I loved, by the way, I'm a Joe Rogan fan. He ain't a fan of mine, but I'm a Joe Rogan fan. No [ __ ] Right on. And for dec I feel like it's a decade back in the day before Joe was a Joe Rogan. He was just a podcaster, man.

16:12 Now he's a phenom. Well, he's What did Joe say? Good friend of mine. So, this is from Joe Rogan. Oh god, this is a tough one. He won't have me on the show by the way. Who will be held accountable for mandating co 19 vaccines for children which were unnecessary and ineffective and who will take responsibility for the unprecedented increases in myocarditis and cancer cases among them? Second to that, do you feel any remorse for that draconian decision that was obviously heavily influenced by the pharmaceutical company's desire for maximum profit? Yeah, I've been I've been I' I've signed some of the most progressive laws against big pharma in the country. So, I have receipts on that. So, no one should suggest that it was about doing the

16:57 bidding of big pharma. Quite the contrary. Uh California like many states, red states included, Florida included, uh moved forward early in the pandemic, working with the Trump administration and the advisers from the Trump administration uh to impose dirt strategies to mitigate the impacts of this novel disease coronairus. Um what's interesting about this process is none of us have really reviewed in an objective way. It's all through the lens of politics what we did right and what we did wrong. And so I'll answer that question by telling you what I've just tasked. I've asked our team to put together an objective review of everything we did right, everything we did wrong. We're interviewing people that vehemently

17:43 disagree with us, that opposed the mask mandates, that opposed the stay-at-home orders, uh people that are international experts. We're stress testing our entire process. could have, should have, would have comparing and contrasting to what other states did. I mean, Florida shut down their bars and restaurants before California. Before California, the question was when did we start to unwind some of those restrictions. California was more restrictive and we were certainly aggressive at scale. as it relates to vaccines. Vaccines save lives. But Joe asked a very different question about children and I respect that. And that was where there was a lot of feedback uh with a lot of experts that I had as advisers. By the way, I used advisers from two other states. We

18:30 did this West Coast Alliance to review not just what was coming from the federal government, but to have a prism and lens on the recommendations coming from the CDC through our own independent adviserss. and I took their advice, not as a doctor, but as a governor. So, with humility, seriously, humility and grace, I've asked them to have that report done. It's going to be done next month. And it'll be the only state that I know of that is putting out a truly objective review of what went right and what went wrong. And I know everyone's a goddamn genius now in hindsight, but at the time none of us knew what we were up against, including the president of the United States, who I worked very closely with. There wasn't a Democratic governor in America that worked closer during the

19:16 pandemic than I did with Donald Trump. And and you can go back and stress test that. Um, and I say that with the kind of humility he deserves as well and grace or rather grace that he deserves in terms of the decisions he made early on. We were all up against something none of us had any experience around and we counted on the experts. What are some of the things during co that you think maybe were a mistake or that you could have done? Well, I mean we we we were sitting there with Purell. Remember early on we had price gouging issues around getting Purell. we were wiping down uh everything in the house. Uh and we were concerned it was airborne and and folks, you know, we were worried about people being outside even. Uh and we realized then after the fact, what the hell are we doing shutting down the beaches and

20:03 open areas, you know, and not understanding that early on? And so I think that of all issues, uh looking back, I remember Florida, there was a big issue too, even there, not just in California. No, I mean it was in Florida. I remember that they had that cruise ship off the coast of Florida that was just stuck there. Yeah. For I can't remember how long. And I say that cuz look at Florida, I keep bringing up because I think there's sort of this sort of triumphant new narrative. It's all mythmaking. It's all storytelling narrative. There's some truth to it, but there's a lot of [ __ ] about it. You know, Florida had worse educational outcomes during co than California. Kids did worse on reading and math scores. Fact, three out of the four areas, fourth grade reading and eighth grade reading and math. uh three out of the four categories California outperformed. Uh from a

20:48 health perspective, they had more per capita deaths than California. And from a wealth perspective, their GDP contracted more than the state of California. I mean on three key areas, there's a lot of mythology around what they did versus again big blue state, California. Again, we weren't the only state doing it, but the state of mind of the California derangement syndrome. There's a Trump derangement syndrome, no question. But there's also California derangement syndrome. Uh as if California stands unique in some of these interventions and respects. It's true in some but not all. Uh I just think more objective minds should review. And for one reason, we're going to have another one of these damn things. And we're totally unprepared because we're so distrustful of everybody. And again, we see the world

21:34 purely through the lens of red versus blue. And so to Joe, that's a good question. And I want an objective answer, not a political answer. And uh that's why I've tked these folks to objectively stress test what we did right, what we did wrong. What What are some of the things that are I mean, how how far along are you in that poll? They're Well, they're almost done. They they've been working on this 6 months. In fact, not only 6 months, a couple years ago at Sunnylands, California, which is amazing place down near Palm Springs, I I invited and convened a group of international experts around CO and they began the process of stress testing. The interviews that are going to inform this report were done then a few years ago, and now we're really looking through all the data, which is

22:19 county by county. remember California's, you know, I know we did the stay-at-home order, which was top down, but a lot of the local decisions really informed the pathway ultimately out of this process and or out of CO and so each county had different approaches um because each region of the state is radically different. Big rural areas didn't have the issues of density that downtown Los Angeles may have. So, you had different rules and regulations. we probably would have I I'm assured this report was so we should have started with the flexibility earlier in the process but again we didn't know what we were up against. So I think those are examples of areas where going forward we want to inform whoever is in leadership going forward

23:05 how to approach a novel virus. Uh but vaccines man lives period full stop. I'm just not I and I by the way RFK Jr. It's a friend of mine. I was with him in the governor's office really talking about he was hand he handed me I think I six or seven damn books he gave me uh just all these attacking big farmer etc. He's an old friend one of my environmental heroes. Guy's next level wrote some of the best environmental books in this country connecting to God and mother nature connecting to generations. I mean there was a spiritual quality to how he expresses himself and connects uh to our earth and our spe and biodiversity. Um, he touches me, man. His dad was my political hero. Like the why I'm here,

23:51 Bobby Kennedy, man. His dad, Sarge Shrivever, the vernacular of the 60s, solving for ignorance and poverty and disease. And so his son, his family, I rever what is I was at his mom's funeral, one of the few governors, the only governor in the country at his mom's funeral. And so I I respect Bobby, but he he I mean he really turned on me early and he flat out lied about some things. What did he lie about? He lied about said though because Newsome got some um I I I got sick for two or three days and he said it was because of a vaccine and then he lied about what I had. He weaponized it. Uh he misled. I was like and I was reaching out going, "Brother, the hell's going on?" And I saw him go down this sort of darker, you know, good people can disagree. And I'm, by the way, make

24:36 America healthy. That's California. I've been leading that cause for decades. There's no governor again. And I'm, forgive me, that movement started in California. I did the Skittles ban a couple years ago. My buddy Marshon Lynch was all pissed at me because we're going after Red Dye earlier than and all the folks on Fox were mocking me. Now they're all jumping over, patting themselves on the back leading this effort. But so I I've always admired that about Bobby. But on the vaccines, I think some skepticism absolutely, but I think that there's a lot of miss and disinformation that is uh really hurt public health. That's my humble opinion. Do you think that some of the restrictions that you put in place

25:22 created a a mental health crisis? By being locked up, by not being able to enjoy the outdoors. That's devastating. Come on, man. Of course. I mean, it was for everybody. Kids in particular. I got four kids sitting there trying to get them on Zoom. I mean, Jesus. I mean, you can't Now I can't get them off a damn device. No, no one's naive about that. Come on. It was It was It was I mean, we're all And we haven't gotten through it. We haven't [ __ ] We haven't We don't want to talk about this. We want to We want to We want to indict people, but we don't want to talk about it. We don't want to have a a real conversation about this. It's one way, not two-way, because it's again through the prism and lens of, you know, our certainty, the sort of binary. You're right, I'm wrong. And um but

26:08 yeah, no, I experienced it firsthand as a father of four, as a as a husband, as a governor, um as a you know, guy responsible for, you know, 40 million people trying to keep people alive, working with the president, taking the advice and counsel from his administration, which I think people forget Operation Warp Speed was next. Well, they definitely forget that. And I don't understand the mental gymnastics behind that either. And by the way, to to Trump's credit, one of the great triumphs, how many lives he saved because of Operation Warp Speed because of vaccines. Now, do you you really think that the vaccine prevented people from getting CO? I think it prevented the acuity of uh the symptoms and disease and kept people out of the emergency rooms. And I think that's universally accepted at least by

26:53 90% of objective of experts. Man, I don't know. I just, you know, when that I wound up getting the vaccine. It's one of the only [ __ ] things I regret. And And I did it. Which one was it? Did you go old school? Johnson and Johnson. Fizer. And you So you did the MRA. Yeah. You did the the novel the the a different version. And uh the I just I was scared to death I was going to miss the birth of my son. So I took it and then I got [ __ ] COVID like Yeah. couple weeks later. And they couldn't test. I would they kept I got the test and it was this one's positive, this one's negative. And I'm like, you guys have any idea what the hell you're doing? Like, you just gave me the same test with with an a positive and a

27:40 negative. Yeah, there's a lot of false positives, man. It's Look, it's messy. Life's messy. Public health is messy. And and and there's no experts out here. And there's again back to I I just think everybody everybody I don't know how to best say it. Uh anyone has certainty about what we did or didn't do or could have. I mean uh I just [ __ ] Little humility across the board. All the so-called experts that said just let it rip. Mhm. That's Earth two. And I'm glad I didn't live on Earth too. And you know for in in vaccines, yeah, there was we overhyped that somehow this was going to end the pandemic. So there was some language. I mean was that Fouchy, was

28:26 that Trump? Was it because then again Trump administration buck stops somewhere. Can't blame Biden for that. Mhm. Um you know he didn't he didn't I mean I I'm sitting there talking about reagents with him and swabs. I mean I remember calls with Trump. None of us knew what the hell we were talking about. I mean Corona. We were talking about beer back then, man. People don't even know what corona vir what the hell is this uh MN na what that you know literally it was all this is all new and so you had to count on the experts and and and that leadership is at the top coming out of the white house and I know you know we talk about bleach and stuff like that I mean I know we mock that but man it wasn't like a masterclass of leadership ultimately there but it was a masterclass on operation warp speed and

29:13 uh and I I grant I grant Trump on that and it shows that government can do big things when it wants to. Uh I happen to believe in vaccines. I think it's one of the most extraordinary things that's ever happened in our lifetime because it's extended our lifetime, saved millions and millions of people's lives. Uh and I say that as a guy that's gone after big pharma and has the receipts. Want more from the Shawn Ryan Show? Join our Patreon today for more clips and exclusive content. You'll get an exclusive look behind the scenes where you can watch the guests interact with the team and explore the studio before every episode, plus unlock bonus content like our extra intel segments where we ask our guests additional questions, our new SRS on-site specials, and access to

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32:18 lightning fast shipping, your supplies can be at your door in as little as 48 hours. Go to my patriotsupply.comsrs right now. That's my patriotsupply.com/srs. You know, I think you got you you received a lot of criticism in, you know, kind of the where I'm going with this is the rules for the not for me type thing. And so we saw, you know, we saw Nancy Pelosi at the at the hair salon with no mask when California had the mask. I I read somewhere. I don't know if it's true that you had closed all the wineries except your own. Such crap. Is that [ __ ] It's such crap. It's not even It's It's so insulting to your intelligence

33:04 and to your audience that anyone would [ __ ] believe that. Are you kidding? Obviously not. I mean, we we we literally had a map as it relates to percentage of those that tested positive by county and as the percentage declined, we lifted restrictions on capacity and restaurants, bars, hotels, hospitality generally in each county on the basis of an independent analysis had those restrictions lifted. One of those counties, many of the counties, dozens of counties were in Ryan country, which exists not just in Napa and Soma, but Central Valley, Central Coast, and they were lifted. I have businesses, and I'm proud of the fact that I've created close to a thousand jobs, started 21 businesses, uh, with no trust funds,

33:51 right? college pen to paper. Uh, and I have a number of businesses in Napa um that had the benefit of reopening, had the burden of closing like every other business in that region. This is just questions, you know, I want to ask. ask him. We were talking at breakfast, you know, I mean, I told you I don't I don't watch any news anymore because I think it is I don't I know it's all [ __ ] and um and so there's Yeah, there's some things that you know that that I've despised you for. I love that. I love your honesty that that I despise me for the [ __ ] I read, too. I want to you know that I want to uh I despise me for the French Laundry. The French Laundry. Well, I was wrong. I went to this damn restaurant. That's the rules for thee.

34:36 You just mentioned I'm I'm going to indict myself here. Biggest boneheaded damn decision I made. Now, it was a restaurant that was open. I went to a restaurant or and it was sort of coming out of of co we were in that that sort of category that I just expressed where things were lower in that region. And this was a restaurant that was open and but it was against the spirit of what I was saying which is you shouldn't have large dinners with large group of people uh as we did. And I went to a damn birthday party and uh I paid a price and I own it. You know, I'm not perfect, man. Um and I, you know, I beat the [ __ ] out of myself for that. Um and everyone who criticized me is goddamn right. And I own that. And uh you know, there were plenty other

35:22 people making those same damn decisions that weren't on Fox News every single night. Uh but that doesn't matter. I control, you know, I take responsibility. Um so yeah, stuff. Those are the things. I mean, you mentioned Nancy, others. I mean, you know, life, man. It's uh none of us are perfect. Maybe the president is in some people's minds, but none of us in my mind are perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I appreciate you coming clean on that. And so, one, it seems like you're gearing up for maybe a presidential run. I mean, you were just in South Carolina, went to a couple different places there to speak. I mean, are you gearing up for a 2028 run? No, I I'm I'm gearing up for 2016 cuz from my humble perspective, I think it's

36:09 existential uh if my part is not successful next year. And that's why I was out there on the stump nine different events. Uh just making the case, don't look for the guy or gal on the white horse to come save the day in 2028. I think it's the Democrat party's the I'm blown away the Democrat's obsession with just that that sort of perfect person that's going to say you sort of this John Wayne thing. Um this romantic version of that person is going to save the day. Meanwhile, we're not doing the hard work uh in between. 2028 is four damn. I mean, this guy just got elected. Been obvious a little over six months or about six goddamn months. Why the hell we talking about 2028? Uh, and so we got to grind. We got to at house, you know, these House seats, uh, that's it, man. It's to me, uh, I need a Speaker Jeff.

36:56 People out there love this Speaker Johnson guy. I don't, uh, he wants, of course, to tar and feather me. Uh, it's a spiritual term, I imagine. I didn't see that. Maybe it's in the Old Testament, not the New Testament, but uh um, we're just we have different different points of view and world vision. So, you're not going to run? I'm not. Well, I'm going to avoid I'm going to run if he tries to t feather me. But as it relates to uh the presidency, who the hell knows? That's that's fate. That's Do you mean a moment? Uh are you wasting anyone's time? Do you do you have a why, a compelling why? I mean, I I have I would have to sit in front of you and feel totally congruent. Mhm. That I'm just like, this is the why. Why are you running? And just say this is, you know, and have that burning

37:42 conviction. I'll tell you, the more Trump keeps doing what he does, the more compelled I am to think about it. Um, I've never felt more outrage, more anger, uh, uh, towards the actions and often this individual than I do now. Well, we'll get into that. Who, who are some, if it's not going to be you, who are some leaders in the Democratic party that you would like to see step up? I think there's a ton of them. Look, I can give you, you know, the who's who name the list that everybody knows. But yeah, look, you have the lineup, a lot of folks that ran last time. They're outstanding leaders in our party. Again, nine out of 10 people listening, rolling their eyes. I get it. Different parties. Um, but you have extraordinarily

38:28 talented people. You have to acknowledge like Pete Buddha Judge. Um you have extraordinarily talented uh governors uh that are emerging uh from Basher uh to Whitmer to Shapiro uh to Wes Moore who's a rock star. He's a buddy. Um you've got a lot of folks we don't talk a lot about uh in the Senate, many in the House of Representatives. I mean, you see Roana making moves obviously. You see, uh you see Chris there uh up in in Connecticut. to see folks um I I think that will emerge um out of nowhere including a lot of brand names, celebrities uh that folks are trying to mold since we're so into performative uh policy. Interesting. Who I don't know. I mean just you know the

39:13 the sort of you know you get the the Cuban types that are always being pushed the rock types you know where I don't know you know their party affiliation. I mean, you know, McConnell is always talking about running for something. Uh, you know, and and so you just you have folks I think Trump has just opened the damn door and you know, it's it's style now. It's narrative. It's not facts. It's who can dominate the conversation, man. Flood the zone. And this guy's a master at this. Mhm. You know, I think he's a bit of a flim flammer. He's a carney from my humble perspective, a music man in many respects. Um but he's incredibly gifted at at at at defining the terms of the debate unlike anyone in my lifetime. Um the Democratic version of that that may

39:59 emerge may not. Bernie though is powerful man cannot deny the populism of Bernie Sanders the purity of heart sort of conviction the consistency of message repeats himself over in the vernacular of Marshawn Lynch over and over and over and over and over again. Trump does the same. There's something about that in terms of communication style. Is it AOCC's and the next generation or is that Roana in that mold? I don't know. Um, but it's uh, you know, there's a lot of talent and I I haven't said I wouldn't have said that seven, eight years ago. I didn't I didn't sense we had that kind of deep bench. We do now. Well, thank you. You know, speaking of Trump and the presidency, I mean, a lot of people are frustrated uh, on his base with what's going on. All right. So, I want to ask you a couple of things, you

40:45 know, that are that are really hot in the news right now. And, you know, and and I mean, let's talk about the Epstein stuff. You know, there was a big big push in his campaign in his campaign about releasing the Epstein files. When are we going to see the list? And I mean, he rode that, you know, in a campaign and then is potentially destroying his entire base by just dismissing it and closing the case. So, I'm I'm curious, what are what are your thoughts on what's going on? I mean, I I I'm, you know, I I don't want to just play it because I the whole thing has always been to me a sideeshow, but I thought it got real interesting when Elon put out that tweet. Mhm. And then all of a sudden, a few weeks later, what file? I thought it was

41:32 really interesting to watch Trump take over for Pam, who's an old friend of mine. Don't want to get her fired for saying that. Uh Bondi, the the AG, and she was asked a direct question about it. Trump defensively jumped in. That was the most defensive I've seen him in a while. So, what do you think is going on? I don't know what's going on, but I know the rumors. Was it a Was it a Was it a intelligence op by MSAD? Like, what? Well, that was one of one of the the the the current uh uh look, man. I I have no idea. I just I felt it was getting down a little down the corridors of Pizza Gate for a while and I'm like, "What the heck what is going on, you know?" And and by the way, that that's manifest in real craziness. I mean, you about two years of protest

42:20 where I wouldn't get out of my damn house. I've had every version of that. Like, what the hell's going on? get into the chemtrail stuff. I mean, there's a lot of stuff. I get it. Um UFOs are a little more interesting to me. I'm a little more uh less on the conspiracy side of that, but that's another conversation. Uh but the Epstein stuff, man, I couldn't make or break anything except Trump. Look, man, the guy Epste and Trump knew each other. That's not even There's no fake videos. Those aren't AI videos of those guys hanging out. Uh and uh it wouldn't make a lot. I don't know. I just I'm going to leave it to more objective minds. I have no objectivity. I don't even I'm not going down this rabbit hole except to say what Elon put that out. I thought it was a big tell. Something's up. A lot of weird stuff's going on. I mean, you know, and and you know, it just it sucks because want to take people for

43:06 their word. And time and time again, you know, we're we're seeing that word broken. And it's it's made me rethink how I choose my leaders. And not saying that I'm choosing you to be my leader. By you just said you said you said you despised me earlier. I am extremely frustrated uh with with with what's going on. And so let's move on. You know, the other hot topic is Iran. I mean, what do you think about that? Well, you know, we bombed Iran. I had Leon Pedetta on uh my podcast last week and was interesting to have former CIA director obviously Leon Secretary of Defense and chief of staff um with all of his hats that he wore and you know they were doing they were gaming out this exact mission. Mhm. uh back when he was in charge. Um

43:53 and it was executed flawlessly. Goddamn heroes. Unbelievable. It was a master class. I I'm You're the expert here, man. But I I was proud uh of how flawless they executed on that. How many years they were working on it and and how seemingly effective, obliterated or not, you know, whatever. a lot of bloiation from Trump but you know may have it seems to have delayed the program and certainly not ended it. Um so it's now going to require the hard work of diplomacy. Well see what's interesting to me and this word maybe it's my understanding that our 18 not one of our 18 intelligence agencies said that there was enriched uranium there.

44:38 Now I'm not a friend of Iran. I know Iran uses terrorist groups as proxies, but I thought it was interesting that now one of our 18 intelligence agencies said that we had enriched that Iran had enriched uranium at those facilities. And then Israel Assad comes along and says, "Oh, no, it's in there." And just like that, we're saying it for most of my life. I mean, I can't remember when BB wasn't saying it. We're just month away. We're just a year away. I think I was 40 at the time. Now I'm, you know, I'm almost on social security. Uh, so I get the cynicism there. I mean, Tulsi was testifying few weeks prior. Yep. Uh, so that's a legit question, man. That's a that's a legit question. And that absolutely it's a legitimate point of critique as it relates to what may or

45:26 may not have occurred. Um, the fact that they did make the decision, the fact that regardless it's delayed the program, uh, makes me sleep better at night if we do the hard work of diplomacy because we didn't solve for anything. We didn't end anything. Mhm. And I really worry more broadly with the aftermath of what's happened in Gaza and the devastation uh of Gaza. Um, you know, I I pray there'll be Abraham 2. I pray Saudi deal Israel. I pray that we can begin to negotiate for peace. I appreciated the president immediately pivoting to wanting to negotiate after the successful bombing. Um, and I think

46:14 that's critical now. So this success will be defined moving forward regardless of the legitimacy of your observation uh and what has been reported from the intelligence communities publicly. How do you think the stuff between Israel and Gaza ends? I BB is just enough. Come on. All these poor children. Enough. When's enough enough? Mhm. I mean Famas. I went I flew out there one of the first flights in. Had to get to Cypress. could barely get out of Israel. Flew in to meet with BB. Met with the president just weeks after October 7th. Um, sent a field hospital, deep reverence for the state of Israel and Israeli people. My family married a

47:00 lot of Jewish family. I'm we can get into my history and so there's a why there. I feel always connected to that country. I was proud to go out there and support country. I mean it terrorist attack a kamas. Mhm. But Jesus, I mean, look at these children. Yeah. Starving, you know, and uh can't I mean, so enough. I know we're we're in the final stages and as we talk, they're negotiating these 10 hostages and we're looking for temporary peace deal. Um, but it breaks my heart, man. And again, this is someone that reveres the state of Israel and and and and and has its back. I'm not, you know, BB, I remember meeting him in the bunker right after, man. And it's so interesting now to hear what he said, not in the

47:48 moment, but with everything that happened after it doesn't surprise me that his mindset understandably, but I mean enough. Yeah. I mean, the last numbers I saw 40,000 people dead. My man, that's a lot of And these are 40,000 families. Yeah. that are going to have a point of view as they grow and get their lives back about what the hell just what happened. And that's uh 40,000 opportunities going forward. Y uh where we may not feel so safe in that cafe uh when we're traveling. And um and so I you know, look, I I applaud President Trump on the Abraham Accords.

48:33 I I think there's a pathway. I think the Biden administration moving down that pathway with Saudi Arabia, which a big goddamn deal. and the opportunity now with Syria and everything that's happened there, the conditions have radically changed and how they have significantly I think they just exposed Iran is not a paper tiger in terms of their proxies but in terms of their own sort of domestic uh military capacity certainly from a defense perspective. You have this extraordinary moment that could transform the history of this country our country and the world certainly the Middle East. Um, and I pray uh that cooler heads prevail and that they can temper some of the appetite of BB particularly of some members of his coalition in particular that are rabid on this topic uh to I I

49:21 think get a pathway or not think that need to get a pathway to peace and do it so immediately. Well, let's move into your life story. You ready? See, I I I prefer Middle East politics to my life story. Come back to it. We can come back to it. Where'd you grow up? I was San Francisco man. I know people are booing. Don't hate. Um San Fran, fifth generation. Uh my uh my dad used to joke his great-grandfather, he said he didn't know what came first, the Irish cop uh or San Francisco. Uh so it's been about 150 years from the Irish cop uh to uh to a politician. Uh and uh and so I grew up there, had pretty significant learning disabilities, so I

50:07 struggled in school. Couldn't read or write. Severe dyslexia. It's why I don't read speeches. Never seen me read a Yeah, I've read that. You You can't even You do not read a teleprompter. I The only thing I can do is a teleprompter. And it's difficult beyond words. But it's But I certainly sure as hell can't look down and read a speech. never been able to which is a little bit of a disability in politics. I imagine I could have picked another profession. Uh there's been a gift and can get to that later. But as a consequence that moved to Maring County for better schools, my mom, single mom, came from nothing. She died, left about a $5,000 state. No [ __ ] Which was a mayor. Amazing. Because with all the care at the end, she died of cancer. Um it was amazing that she didn't have more debt. And it

50:53 just puts in perspective. There's a sort of perception of me some rich kid. uh somehow born to privilege. Uh but she was a teen. She was uh 19 when she was pregnant with me. Two kids, divorced a few years later. She's just like hustled, man. She worked for aid to adoption of special kids, the Debult family. So when it comes to issues around uh physical and intellectual disabilities, it's been my cause, man. Special Olympics back to SAR Shrivever and the Strive. I mean, and just the issues around intellectual disabilities and best buddies and and and people, you know, being bullied. I don't like bullies. Mhm. Goes to why I have strong opinions about Trump, man. Just is. It's like it triggers me. All of us have that. I don't like people talking down to people, past people. I don't like people exploiting weakness. And so, my mom

51:40 taught me that and she was tough son of a [ __ ] And she just taught me hard work, man. I mean there was no if you know I was doing paper roots working for Jeffix Construction was doing janitorial work down at the tenderloin in San Francisco. I mean I was my summer job through college just grinding uh was going to go to community college. I mean I got 960 or something on Monday SAT. Uh my mom said don't even take it again. It's okay. I was panicked you. I was just like that guy. I remember fifth grade Mr. Morris's class I start reading. You know they make everyone read a little part of a book and you just you seen the clock you're like [ __ ] You're like, "Please, please let the let's class end." And you're like counting the desks and you're like and I remember getting up people I swear to God I'll never forget people laughing when I couldn't even read the goddamn words. Damn. And and you those are the scars of your

52:27 life, man. I identify you. And so my mom struggle with that. My sister's smart. She's going to fancy school. She goes to Georgetown. She's getting 13. I don't remember that. It don't even matter. It was easy for her. And I'm just And so for her, I I have so much empathy. I never I never had kids. She died years and years, 18 years ago. So, she never got me my kids and I never got to say thank you because as a parent um I've got a couple kids that have been struggling and it's so hard on the parents. I never even thought about that. Never thought about my mom, man, and all the sacrifices, all the [ __ ] she went through. She worked two, three jobs her whole [ __ ] life. I mean, that's how I got in the restaurant business. I was she was a waitress and doing bookkeeping and part-time real estate and I was the bus boy and that's how I

53:14 kind of got introduced to the business and um and then she ended up working for me near the end of her life when I started growing my businesses from one little store uh with uh one part-time employee and built that to 20 plus businesses across California. And so that was my mom. My dad was uh uh he kind of panicked. He he uh tried to get into politics, lost, went into debt, tried to do it again, lost lost the relationship with my mom, and then just moved out of San Francisco and went up to uh Lake Tahoe area and he just he had a little nerv he had a little breakdown. How old were you when he left? Uh just a few years old. Do you remember him? Yeah, I mean I

53:59 remember him for, you know, summers. I remember him sometimes on the weekend. I remember when I started getting good at baseball and basketball. That was where we reconnected. And it's the only reason I got into four-year college baseball and uh was pretty good basketball player, better baseball player, and got recruited to Santa Clara. Uh and that's they kind of that's you kind of snuck in there. a nothing scholarship. Wasn't even about that. It was the ticket to a 4-year college. But those high school years, man, my dad was started to show up as proud. It's like the son's, you know, you were proud. He was proud. And he's proud. Yeah. And sort of connected and that and I was like, "Hey, dad." You know, so he

54:44 kind of started coming back in our lives a lot more. How did your mom handle him leaving? I mean, what was they neither neither ever got remarried. Uh they both every time they came close, they sabotaged each other. Did they talk well of each other or with each other? Yeah, there was there was no abuse. There was no no issues. There no affairs. It was u my dad just struggling with his own identity and uh and he eventually he became a he was a lawyer then became a judge. He was on the superior court then the court of appeals. Incredibly bright um objectively so. I mean that was he was that was his sort of legendary status. Uh he was a he was at Stanford. He was doing a little English work there. professor for a brief period of time or was teaching there and then became a judge and wrote these beautiful opinions

55:30 and his entire inheritance he passed uh he made it just through uh my election day as governor which is a hell of a thing in a wheelchair. Wow. Survived just to see his son become governor man and uh which is just [ __ ] in hindsight I'm like good as that man. Let's roll it back a little bit. I mean, did you feel I mean, did you feel any resentment or or I mean, when your dad leaves at that young of an age? I mean, man, I think you all everybody goes through these journeys differently and there's so many people that have the same experience. Uh, I never, you know, you didn't I didn't know any other pathway, right? So, I didn't experience something and lose something because it was I was so young.

56:17 That's a good point. So I didn't sort of connect with that other caregiver, the other person being home or around. I just connected with my mom and that sort of, you know, and that was like a jawing thing, man. Like I'm the only son, you know, I'm struggling, but I'm like the guy, the boy just like So, man, she just Yeah. I mean, she sacrificed everything for me, man. Like gave up everything, any ambition, anything else. How did you receive him coming back into the picture? uh his gift, man. He's my hero. I mean, he was the he was he was the he was the Bobby Kennedy, you know, he was the the judge, the politics, you know, he had all these interesting relationships, including with the Getty family, his closest relationships, which

57:04 opened a lot of doors for me and created a lot of opportunities I wouldn't have otherwise have. And um and so he was adventure. The summers were he's a he was a ravid outdoorsman like man we were like we'd go I mean we're all over the world. We would go it was one summer trip and it was just always a [ __ ] adventure and river trips primarily and and we you know up there and you know up there in Manitoba Winnipeg and we're out there beluga whales in Hudson Bay. I'm like this is amazing. We're doing blue whales down uh in Baja or or or or grey whales in Baja. We would be out uh doing these river trips on the the middle fork of the salmon and American and Rogue River up in Oregon and he was just that

57:49 guy. So I'm connected to adventure. Um and then he was passionate about politics but it was public service wasn't partisan. It was like man just it again it was the feelings around the 60s like it was a noble calling. Um, and uh, and so you combine the hard work and ethic of my goddamn mom. Don't complain. Don't explain. You have agency. You're not a [ __ ] victim. You got to deal with [ __ ] And that idealism of my dad. What a gift. Wow. Wow. I mean, any any Did you ever ask your dad why he left? Yeah. He said he had a he said I just was I was in I He I He says he literally had a breakdown.

58:34 I mean, we were talking earlier he did some interesting stuff. I mean, I'm I'm getting in different territory here. Uh he told me he did some LSD experiments at Stanford University. He said he primarily did it cuz they paid a lot. Uh he was just always he was he was on a journey, man. I think I didn't you don't think about that with your parents. My mom, you know, my mom's dad was prisoner of war um in Corri. He ultimately took his life. Talk about pts. Talk about veterans. Don't even get me started either, man. My mom struggled with that. I mean, he put a gun to their head to his my mom and his sister

59:21 after he came back. That's how he was. Was a beautiful man, but not when he drank. And so my mom struggled with that and was very lonely, isolated. My dad clearly was struggling more with his mental health than I expected. Not in an acute way, but in a way that I'm starting to more appreciate. He said, "I had a damn breakdown. I couldn't I couldn't face you guys. I couldn't own up to being a good father, and I wasn't gonna be a good husband." And so I said, "I had to leave." And he just said, "I broke down." Wow. And but he was a beautiful man. And as I say, his inheritance was his idealism and um in the sense of adventure and limitlessness obligation,

1:00:07 you know, he was, you know, he was I think community opportunity responsibility. He was the responsibility guy like you have an obligation, brother. You know, you got to give back. That's your job. And he he was charitable and he was causeoriented. uh justice, you know, just justice Nuome and um so I thought he's he was a beautiful man in my mind, but terrible not a great not the best father and certainly not a good husband. I mean, what kind of LSD experiments? I man I I'm just learning about him, brother. I'm learning more and more about this. I'm trying to find out more from uh other family members. I'm like some MK Ultra [ __ ] Yeah. This this is like predates all this stuff that's now everybody's starting to understand how powerful and

1:00:53 potent and profoundly important this space is. Mhm. In ter not just for the I mean for vets next level. I mean you're look I'm talking to the expert here. I'm going to my words but more broadly man. This mental health crisis it was the right question you asked me about co goddamn right man. Social isolation we haven't come. We're more lonely than ever, more isolated, more distrustful. Community's been afraid. That did not help co quite the contrary accelerated. They were pre-existing trends. I mean, you you had the former surgeon general and Obama that made the point that the number one disease in America is loneliness even before the pandemic and then it was accelerated. And we haven't figured that one out, man. And that's that's I where I want my

1:01:39 leadership to speak to those better angels, man. and not divide, take down, separate anymore. And that's that's my gripe. I don't want to get back into politics, but that's my gripe about what's going on in 1600 Pennsylvania right now. It just we need to knit things back together, man. And um this guy's uniquely capable of doing it because he has no political mornings. It's not ideological Trump. So, his ability to pivot, shapeshift. Mhm. Uh what a gift if he would just damn exercise it. I mean, do you feel like the last administration was divisive? I think, you know, we we got ideological, you know, failed at the border. And by the way, I say that as a guy put 394 National Guard

1:02:26 down at the border. I saw that. I didn't years and years ago. I didn't react to that. I mean, I I invested over a billion dollars, 1.1 almost 1.3 billion dollars into migrant centers in three counties, Imperial, San Diego, and Riverside counties along the border in order to put a lid on it. It's why you didn't see on the nightly news. I know you weren't watching as much as others, but there was a lot of the flooding of the news was primarily around Texas, but we were able to kind of keep a lid on it a little bit in California. Trust me, my friends on the right would have exploited the hell out of California had we seen that flood. And we we were trying to manage it and I was trying to manage the politics, trying to have the back of the president, but very very critical saying you guys

1:03:11 wake up to the hell is going on down here. I mean, the fact that here's a progressive governor putting hundreds of military at the border and and consistently funding that in every b fighting in every budget to keep that going. Um, rever those guys in the National Guard, by the way. Rock stars. You know, I I did I read that you put

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