مناظره جنجالی زیباکلام و بیژن کیان آینده آتش بس با اسراییل

0:01 [Music] On Monday night, July 29, a few days after the ceasefire between Iran and Israel, Ahmad Vakhshite organized a debate on his Instagram, inviting Sadeq Zibakalam, a full professor at the University of Tehran, and Bijan Kian, a former Trump advisor . This debate had been held by him before . Zibakalam, who had previously said that he was betting on reaching an agreement between Iran and the United States . Now, for the first time since the 12-day Iran-Israel war, he is expressing his views

0:50 and confronting Bijan Kiani, who has completely different views from him. The topic of this debate was the future of the ceasefire between Iran and Israel, which we present to your attention in this episode. But before that, be sure to subscribe to the viewer channel to stay up to date with the latest Iranian news . Greetings to you, Dr. Ziba Kalam. Hello, Mr. Kian. Hello, I would like to say, Ahmad, dear Dr. Bakshit, I would like to say hello and respect to you. I would like to say hello and respect to you. Thank you for accepting the trouble. Both you and Mr. Kian, I know that you have been

1:37 infected with Corona for a few days. I hope you are well. I also wish you good health. Thank you for accepting the invitation in these circumstances. Kamal Mir. I am happy to be with you. Yes, Mr. Kian. Corona. Well, this shows how far behind America is from us. Because we have overcome Corona 98. Americans. Americans just reached it. We did not die. And we saw that in the war, we are ahead of others. We are ahead of America. The problem with our work is that we could not understand this coronavirus detector. And at least our technology is advanced enough to

2:25 detect it. I think the reason why you are ahead of us is that the technology is very advanced. Doctor. Anyway, we are 6 years behind you. We had Corona 98. 99. Now it is 1404. 5 more years for you. I don't know what you are doing in America, but something should have happened sooner. We do not have creativity at the level of our people. We do not have creativity. I was creative and I was telling Dr. Bakhshite that you saw every change in our faces today that looked like a smile. You should know that a smile is not a smile. But we have no choice. We are in a situation where we can only smile. It's

3:15 really the same. If you allow us to start this conversation based on the same topic, which is, in any case, a week has passed since the fire between Iran and Israel and the 12-day war that Dr. Zibakalam said in this. I think it's been 5 years since 2020. We actually had almost one live broadcast every month on Instagram. In this past year, you allowed me to rudely interrupt your conversation a moment ago. Just these two fists that you put in front of each other. One has the flag of the Islamic Republic

4:02 and the other has the flag of Israel. These two are placed together. Is n't it better for this to be your view? Let's put a place where these Iranian people can raise their fists against the Islamic Republic. How can this be shown? Because we see differently . We see this war between the people of Iran and the Islamic Republic, not Israel and the Islamic Republic. I wanted to ask this because we don't have control over the poster, but it can be done in a way that shows that these are the people of Iran who are standing up to the Islamic Republic, or that we should just go with this, with this order, I'm asking this question . Mr. Kian, Mr. Kian, Mr. Kian, we weren't

4:49 supposed to set the price first. If this is the case, the handful of Americans who have been against Mr. Trump, the handful of Israelis who have repeatedly demonstrated against Mr. Netanyahu's government over the past 19 months, marching for kilometers in protest against Mr. Netanyahu's government, I don't know if we are going to move forward like this. It 's not just the protesters against the Islamic Republic. There are also many protesters against Trump. There are also many protesters against Mr. Netanyahu. Of course, I myself didn't really agree with those two handfuls, and because I don't have much to do with war,

5:38 conflict, and conflict in general, I would have preferred that Dr. Farhad [music] design a symbol of peace and friendship and things like that . Of course, I would like to say this, Dr. Ziba Kalam, because how many times have we had this conversation, for example, about whether Iran and Israel were at odds that they would go to war, or whether there was even a discussion between Iran and America, or whether there was a situation of war and bombs and all that, I would have sent it. Dr. Ziba Kalam always had this concern that it should not be like that, but since the internet did not help me coordinate this time, and since the war between the Islamic Republic of Iran and

6:23 Israel had already begun. I made this poster very quickly. Now I apologize even if it is not well-received by either party. But the issue I wanted to address is that a war broke out anyway, which lasted 12 days, and everyone from London watched this war for themselves. He diagnosed it. Now, tonight, in this live broadcast, I specifically want us to address this issue from different perspectives, and I don't know if there's any chance now that we, the Kurds, should talk about it. Could it have an impact or not? But I wanted to say one thing. In the 5 years that we were on live with Dr. Ziba Kalam, they always said one thing. Many times, many people laughed that something like this would not happen. They said that if one day this

7:12 nuclear king reaches a point where he wants to have a military confrontation, even a single lamppost can be safe. And now we saw that in the 12 days that there was a military confrontation, Israel really attacked very hard, regardless of the fact that it could now have dimensions beyond the military dimension. But enough about this issue. I want to listen to your opinion more. And if you allow me, I would not always start tonight with Dr. Ziba Kalam. But tonight I want to start with Dr. Ziba Kalam because during this time, there was no internet at all. In fact, we did not hear a single thing from Dr. Ziba Kalam.

7:59 If Mr. Kian would allow me, Kamal, because Dr. Ziba Kaman is the host, we usually always start with a guest. But if Dr. Zibakalam agrees, let's actually start with this discussion, your view on what has happened in these 12 days. Mr. Ahmad, if you order, I will obey, but out of respect for Mr. Kian, minus the sometimes deep and superficial differences we have with each other, I would have preferred Mr. Kian to start . Okay, so Mr. Kian, what do you say? I

8:48 insist that I am grateful for the same reasons you mentioned. Thank you, sir, because I want to fine myself, and I interrupted you and, as the doctor said, set the price at the beginning of the fight . I don't see a fight, Doctor. I wanted to say, no, this is a cliché, cliché, cliché, Mr. K. B. I know, yes, I know, yes, I know. I wanted to suggest that if we put up a poster, we should tie the wrists, because the tie is definitely not for the purpose of putting the other person to sleep, because maybe it will create a friendly atmosphere there. So if you want to

9:34 show the tie, but no, please, Doctor, please, I am familiar with your intellectual positions, and please repeat it. I will listen. Your Excellency, Mr. Kian, first of all, in the name and memory of the Almighty, and with greetings and courtesy to all our compatriots, and condolences to all those who lost their loved ones and were killed innocently during these 12 days of conflict. Now, the Iranians were much more numerous,

10:23 and a number of Israelis who were civilians were also killed. We should really offer condolences to them and their victims. But on the other hand, Doctor, forgive me, Mr. Kian, who has been very active in the last two weeks, since Friday. Two weeks ago, when the conflict started, it was regularly brought up in relation to me, wherever I went. Now, there were seven or eight days when the internet was down and nothing could be done. But after that, when it was connected a little bit, and before that,

11:12 when there was basically no internet, one of the things was that Mr. Zibakalam, you openly bet several times that there would be no war and you regretted it. You regretted that if only betting were not allowed in the Islamic Republic and you were betting that there would be no war. Some even said, "Thank God that gambling is illegal, otherwise the rest of the wealth we had would have gone to waste." In fact, the Islamic Republic should be grateful. This was the issue. One was that in the early hours of

12:03 Friday two weeks ago, at 4:00 AM Iranian time, it became clear that the Israelis had attacked. A few hours later, when it became clear that the Qibla attack had taken place, that positions had been hit and commanders had been martyred. I posted a tweet. At that time, Ahmad Agha's internet had not been cut off. I immediately posted a tweet saying, "How can someone be on the side of Netanyahu, Trump, and the Crown Prince? I'm really surprised that they can be on the side of

12:49 these people. When I officially attacked like this, this is what happened. This is what happened. Many, many people cited this, or maybe many, I don't know, who died, whether they sided with the Islamic Republic or the opposition. I don't know. Maybe this tweet made them say, "Well, there's no point in it. We're going to side with the Islamic Republic. But Dr. Bakhshit, I don't know what Mr. Kian and you think, but I believe that a war did n't happen with America, which absolutely didn't happen." It

13:35 didn't take, meaning the only thing that happened with the US was that they fired 6 of these powerful bombs at our nuclear facilities, which is now debatable whether they were destroyed or not. Mr. Trump says they were destroyed, many say no, this is not news, they were not destroyed. Meaning the only confrontation between Iran and the US was these 6 bombs with Israel. I believe, Mr. Ahmed, that we did not enter into war in the sense that war is defined. The Israelis killed areas, targets, commanders, and military officials

14:23 . They attacked a number of nuclear areas and nuclear facilities. They struck a series of barracks, areas, and places that the Israelis considered important from a military, intelligence, and security perspective, and in return, Iran fired missiles that caused casualties in Israel. I would n't really call this a war. Mr. Israel, we did not enter the war. All of Iran's infrastructure is intact. Mine is intact. There were no flights at the airports for a few days. There were two flights.

15:09 If this war is called the one that was in Ukraine for 8 years and was between us and Iraq, I don't know what it's called. Of course, the Israelis said that wherever they hit it, it was military or security, or that Iranian nuclear scientists were there or military commanders. But one of the places they hit, which I still can't understand, was Evin Prison. Initially, it was said that 71 people were killed. Now the number has increased to 8 or so. I think about everything. Maybe Mr. Kian

15:57 can explain to me what Evin Prison was. For example, if you want to hit it as a symbol of the regime, a large number of these 80 people are innocent people. They were prisoners. They were killed. They came to visit them. They were conscripts who could have served somewhere else instead of Evin. What do you really want to show us about hitting Evin? I do n't care about other places, I still believe that there was no conflict between Iran and America. I don't know about Iran and Israel.

16:46 They hit a number of targets. We also fired a number of missiles. There was no conflict, war, or conflict in that sense. After 48 hours, after the first 72 hours, when the queues at the toilets were very long, the queues at the gas stations were very long, many people in Tehran left Tehran. After the third, fourth, fifth day, everything slowly, quickly returned to normal. How can we call this a war? Now, these are my initial and initial symptoms. Thank you. Well, after World War II,

17:34 even I'm giving a lesson. We can say that when countries entered another country militarily, they generally avoided the term war and used military operations. That is, when the Soviet Union entered Afghanistan, we saw that the Soviet Union used the term military operations. When the United States entered Iraq in 2012, they paid attention to this point, and the Western media emphasized that the term Don't use war and use the title of military operation. We can look at the latest stage of this issue in Ukraine, where Russia says that the word "war" should not be used and that this is a special military operation to demilitarize

18:22 Ukraine's infrastructure. If we go with this perspective, Israel actually used the concept of a military operation, which targeted Iran's nuclear infrastructure, and beyond the nuclear infrastructure, as you can see, it targeted the senior commanders of the Islamic Republic, and the United States came and carried out that operation. Mr. Kian, what is your view on this issue ? Dr. Ziba Kalam says that this is not a war and nothing special has happened, but perhaps we should look at the issue from another perspective. On Monday

19:07 last week, the wave of Israeli attacks intensified, specifically targeting Evin Prison. We can say that by 4 a.m., when the ceasefire was supposed to be in place, those who were in Tehran probably experienced the most difficult night during those 12 nights. In your opinion, is Israel looking for war or a military operation? With what goals and ultimately, why did this happen? Yes, thank you, Dr. Ziba Kalam. If you know how, I would like to start by asking Dr. Ziba Kalam's question about why and how in relation to how, why

19:56 and how a thought can be placed alongside Trump's thought or Netanyahu's thought in such circumstances. If you allow me, I would like to start from there and then I would like to get to this point. Basically, the definition of war and whether there was a war or not was a topic that I would like to talk about openly. Then I would ask a specific question about why Israel targeted Evin Prison. For that, I do not have an answer and I think an Israeli military expert should come and defend Israel's special military operations or explain it. But I have an understanding for myself and I will

20:43 definitely share this understanding with you in this matter as well. And let me tell you that I see that why and how, Dr. Ziba Kalam, very honestly. I think that they, as academics, are expected to ask such a question. But just as this question is a valid one, they should have the patience to hear the answer, not to look at the why and how from the beginning with the intention of denying what happened. Really ask why, why do some Iranians outside Iran and many inside Iran, Dr. Zibakalan, Dr. and Bakhshite, say that, why do they say that, no,

21:31 we understand that this war is not a war with Iran because Iran is not an Islamic Republic. This campaign that has begun, and I see that Mr. Khamenei is also following it strictly, our beloved homeland, your beloved homeland, I think that why and how they stand should come back to what they see. Those who are not on the sidelines today, Mr. Zibakalam, you are aligning with the sentiments that the Iranian people show in sympathy, whether abroad or at home, with what has been aligned. Not that the intention is that we did not come to stand with Mr. Trump or

22:19 Mr. Netanyahu, but we came to stand with the Iranian people who do not want the Islamic Republic, no matter how they say it, we do not want you. Now a government has come and has seen this existential threat and attacked. Under what circumstances do you expect someone like me to stand with Mr. Khamenei ? Mr. Khamenei, who is not Iran, Mr. Dr. Zibakalam, you yourself have listened to me many times and you say, "Do you want to know why the world has become your enemy?" And you listed a long list of the madness of this criminal regime from day one. Of course, I do n't think you would ever consider Mr. Khamenei

23:06 or the Islamic Republic regime to be criminals . But what kind of child-killing regime are these cries about the child-killing regime of Israel? Of those who lost their children, for a mother, her child is always a child, mother Sattar Beheshti, others, Neda, Agha, Sultan, Nika, Shahkarami, how many names do we have, Hadith Najafi, Mr. Zibakalam asks why and how to reach the hearts of the people, why and how, because if you say it is the Islamic Republic of Iran, that means if someone asks you, Mr. Zibakalam, Mr. Dr. Zibakalam, where are you, Mr. Dr. Bakhshite, where are you, Bijan Kian, where are you, you have sense,

23:54 say I am the Islamic Republic, there is no problem, because you consider the Islamic Republic a country. If you consider it, maybe you don't, but Mr. Mohammad Javad Zarif is trying to do this, because because we stand against lies, we cannot stand by Mohammad Javad Zarif and he lies, and we will also applaud and benefit for him, Mr. Zibakalam. How long will it take for all the people of Iran to forgive, forgive those who don't know, but you who know, Mr. Doctor, you know, I am sorry, I can't, I can't answer you. Let me give you another one. You said why and how is this why and

24:41 how is it that I say the Islamic Republic in the eyes of those who, even inside Iran, say, " You are killing my child, sister, mother, and daughter, and then say, "You are my same sex, my same country, you are Iranian, you are not, you are not, you are stealing what is mine, with a cake, with a helicopter, bringing cakes and flowers to your children's weddings. There are more Lamborghinis in Iran than anywhere else in the world. Connect these. Why, how, how, I have a long list of whys and hows. If you accept the logic, now let's move on to the other issue, the definition of war between you and me, which we can

25:28 talk about. Then we have a claim that we don't have. We do n't have a crystal ball that can guarantee and insure that this will happen. At most, you and I can imagine futures in which events in those futures will be possible, and at most, we can share the degree of probability of these events with the people. We have the right to say we were wrong. We had no control over what happened. We made predictions based on that data at that time. Mr. Doctor, forgive him for saying that we will neither fight nor negotiate. He said that world leaders will hide until something happens. They take us to an unknown location, but we stand

26:14 in the front row. No. So, look at the war, we went and fought, we took territory , we made mistakes, the tanks were moving, the swords were drawn. This was the life of a farmer. Weapons changed during the industrial era . The taptics changed. In the industrial age, they go to war to change the minds and hearts of those people who want to change their minds and behavior. Look at the game Mr. Trump played with Mr. Khamenei. How he put her in a corner that she had no idea about. Now we are wondering whether this was a war or not. With that definition of the agricultural era, Dr. Zibakalam, and with this opponent, an

27:04 opponent that is a small country, feels an existential threat, feels its existential threat more from the perspective of the Islamic Republic, and takes military action. This is protecting its own interests. I think we have said many times that no one catches a cat or a mouse for the sake of God. America also protects its own interests, but America showed its full support for Israel, and this support was considered legal support. If you, Dr., had studied these things, I know that I am not a student of Sam J. Pease, but if these two Latin words did not exist, the world would not have been able to harmonize so easily. The head of

27:51 NATO would not have been able to speak the same language as America, and so on. So there was a legal reason. Let's accept it. You ask, will the war continue? It depends on whether the leaders of the army eliminate their slaves who helped those conservatives. This is no joke. History will one day show that without the help of those who remained, it would not have been possible for those who were eliminated to be eliminated. Another. Even more so if I say I cut off a part that I shouldn't have cut. But if they don't understand that yes, the game can be over, why do you need a General Heiser from the other world to come and tell you, "Sir, the game is over?" The game is over. Don't be like that Japanese soldier who

28:39 was stuck in a cave and wouldn't come out, saying the war wasn't over yet. Someone tell them the war is over . For your own sake, for the sake of your children, if you don't want someone else to raise your children, you should finish it. You are weak. You failed. Accept it for the sake of the people, for the sake of preserving the country. I think I've answered your questions as best I can about prison. Like you, Doctor, what human being doesn't feel truly heartbroken when a father loses a son, a son loses a father , a house, or a sister? How can we not be sad? How come you don't think there's a paradox in this part

29:24 ? That is, we can condemn the Islamic Republic as much as we can as an observer, why are they not releasing political prisoners or prisoners who could be released, but we can also condemn Israel, by what rule and law did you attack Evin Prison? And I want to say this: You first said in your statement that Israel is a dictatorship. I want to say that if we say that the Islamic Republic is a puppet government, a dictatorship, does that mean that we are saying that all of Israel is not child killers? The fact that in Gaza it was shown that it was a child is confusing the issue. Excuse me, an analogy. I'm confusing the issue. Let me finish the

30:11 prison. You say that 70 people, 200 people. You expect the world to accept statistics from the Islamic Republic that there was not a single rectum in the stomach of this Islamic Republic. Mr. Ziba, you said it yourself. You said it yourself, Mr. Doctor. I heard from you that you did not have a single rectum in your stomach. You didn't say a single word of truth . It's clear that the world doesn't accept it. If you want to have the world's sympathy on the scale you mentioned, you should also point out that the Islamic Republic is lying. How do we know that no one was killed? We don't know. Because the Islamic Republic is lying. He is lying. Now, if you want to talk about the lies of the

30:57 Islamic Republic, I think we should make a special program that will be a series of several seasons, but my answer to you is this: Why are people in Evin Prison? Why does Evin Prison have to be so crowded? Do you know why they are keeping them there? What is Ms. Narges Mohammadi doing there? What did she do? What action did she take? Well, I think, Mr. Ya, if you allow me, we can take this discussion forward. But I will borrow from your words and ask Dr. Zibakola and continue. My understanding is that from your statement, I want to know Dr. Zibakolam's opinion. The Islamic Republic is an authoritarian government that has put all these people, including those I spoke to,

31:43 in a section of prison. Now, for example, like Dr. Zibakolam, they came out on leave and went to another section. Now, what are they in? If Mr. Kian protests, I think that Israel is doing this, and you should also come and express your disgust. Should you declare it? The abomination that, for example, is being done now, well, Evin prison will only get fuller. Then, if Evin prison is going to get fuller, Israel will come and attack there again. In a way, these complement each other. That is, Israel and the Islamic Republic seem to complement each other. Now, with this formula, I want to say that Israel is not white. Israel is definitely like the Islamic Republic. In my opinion, the same amount of criticism that has been directed at the Islamic Republic can be directed at Israel, not more. But,

32:29 Dr. Zibakalam, let's hear your opinion on what Mr. Bebin said. Look, look, Mr. Ahmed, if we had a program with you a month ago and Mr. Kianam was there, we would have had a round table debate. They were doing all the talking. The Islamic Republic is like this, like this, it did this, it did that, it lies, what, what, what, what, what. If we had put together a program 6 months ago, this would have been it. Two years ago, if we had a plan, this would have been it. Look, just before these 12

33:17 days began, Ahmad, I wrote an article titled " System Collapse Syndrome," which basically says that the opposition's only concern is that the Islamic Republic is collapsing, meaning it's over. The Islamic Republic is now the beginning of July. It's the 9th of July. They say, "Kill yourself. For example, by the end of July, there might be a second one." You see, every event, every development, whether positive or negative, including these 12 days of war, is more important than a free life.

34:05 You see, whatever happens, the opposition has only one approach, and that is that this system is collapsing. It's over. It's gone. Then that crisis goes to sleep. It's falling for a while. It's falling. It's falling. It's being put aside. It's calming down. Its fuse goes down. Then, for example, another incident happens. For example, truck drivers go on strike because of the increase in gas prices. Teachers go on strike in the streets because their salaries are low. Nurses, you see. You see, every incident like this happens. If you are the opposition, Follow them, you will see that they immediately go to the time. The system is

34:52 collapsing. This is another issue. What I said, I said that a conflict has arisen. A conflict has arisen between the Islamic Republic of Iran, between the Iranian government and Israel. This situation of people like Sadegh Zibakalam, who are critical of the Islamic Republic, are critical of many of its policies. And who doesn't know this? Who hasn't heard that Sadegh Zibakalam has been saying for years, " Who gave you the Islamic Republic the mission that you

35:40 must destroy Sklo? Who gave you the Islamic Republic? Where did you get this authorization that you exist and do not exist? You are putting the country on the nuclear path?" I said these things over and over again. So those are some of the things that are the foundation of the republican system. I criticized them over and over again. I said that the ideology of anti-Americanism, the ideology of hostility to America, the ideology of anti-arrogance for 46 years, which we are now entering the 47th year, has struck at the root. The axe to the root has struck at the root of Iran's national interests. Who am I to do these things? Who am I to do these things? I didn't say and I know everything. I have a case file and Evin and so on and

36:27 so forth. But look, what I said was this. What I said was that on June 31st, when these events began, it turned out that a serious and serious attack had taken place. They raised the question that someone like Sadeq Zibakalam, who has very fundamental and fundamental criticisms and objections to the Islamic Republic system, what should he do now? How can this situation be? He should come and say that because of the criticisms and objections I have to the Islamic Republic system, now that Israel is

37:13 like this, I am coming and supporting Israel, just as many of the opposition are doing. Just as I know, Ahmad, so that your viewers and your audience understand what I am talking about. We know that over the past 19 months since October 7th, thousands of Israelis, tens of thousands of Israelis, hundreds of thousands of Israelis have come to march against Mr. Netanyahu's government over and over again. The question is why did they come to march because they strongly protest Mr. Netanyahu's government. There are,

38:01 now, these opponents of Mr. Netanyahu's government who are strongly opposed to Mr. Netanyahu's government. Are they opposed to coming to cooperate with the Havas in 19 months? Are they opposed to the Netanyahu government? Are they opposed to coming to cooperate with the Islamic Republic? Are the Americans who are opposed to Mr. Trump's policies? Never come to cooperate with Russia. Never come to cooperate with the Islamic Republic. Contact the Islamic Republic. The hands of the Islamic Republic in Washington, who are strongly opposed to Trump, want to be separate from Trump. So we want to come and cooperate with you. All I'm saying is, is it okay?

38:49 I'm an Iranian, a citizen of the Islamic Republic. I have huge, fundamental, and fundamental problems with the Islamic Republic system? Does this morally justify me? Does it allow me to stand with Israel? Stand with Netanyahu? Regardless of whether you're sorry, let them finish speaking. I'll answer this part because I might forget. Please, let me answer at some point. This part is over. Mr. Please, I apologize. I apologize. No, excuse me. I want to

39:34 apologize, I want to apologize, please, no, there is no need to apologize. Please apologize again, Mr. Kian, Mr. D, Mr. Doctor Ziba Kalam. An Israeli protester who protests against Netanyahu is not blinded with a shotgun. A protester who protests against Mr. Trump is not killed. They do not run him over with a car. Mr. Doctor and Ziba Kalam, you are making a complete analogy . No, it's not like they're protesting there, they're protesting everywhere. Why do I say that the Islamic Republic stands in front of its people ? What do you tell them to do? Sadegh

40:19 Zibakalam: We are in the information age. The war with America began in an instant. I am a student of this work. In diplomatic protocol, no head of state would do to Mr. Trump what he did to Mr. Khamenei . This was more severe than any declaration of war . Mr. Doctor, America is at war with the Islamic Republic . Military commanders also have a duty to do this. This is what we expect from you, Mr. Zibakalam. What we expect from you is that you tell them, Doctor, that logic dictates this, that they should say this beautiful word with the lives of the people. Did n't you say this logic? Didn't we all say it? For example, Doctor

41:06 Ziba Kalam, didn't everyone say it live? Didn't all the people in Evin say it? I think 90 million Iranians said it. So let me ask this question after you. But listen to the rest of Doctor Ziba Karem's speech. Then I will ask you this same question. Yes, look, look. My point is, in one sentence, is being against a government, being a critic of a government, protesting against a government? Does this justify us if foreign enemy countries attack us because we are critics,

41:55 oppose them, protest, and are in the hands of those who are enemies? I believe not. If it is said that no, it is not like what Mr. Kian is saying now, and why did we criticize Masoud Rajabi ? Why did we, the Mujahideen, object ? They can say that we fought with a government that was cruel and bad, the same things that Mr. Kim says, we went and laid hands on Saddam, but we all condemned it. Mr. Kianam himself condemned it when in 1982, the Mujahedin, Massoud Rajavi and the leadership of the organization went, and

42:41 look at these differences that I have with us, I have a kind of question with the Islamic Republic system, I repeat these differences that I do not deny us, not this criticism that I do not deny us. Does this justify me going to join hands with the enemy or not? This is his answer, in my opinion, do not interpret it as sympathy with the Iranian people, sympathy with the Iranian people. Let me ask you a question. Mr. Kalam, look, look, Ahmad, look, Ahmad, if

43:30 we were to conduct a survey among the people of Daryan, the people of Iran, let's say all those who are 18 years old and above, we want to survey them. Let's say that despite your feelings towards the Islamic Republic system, your approach to the Islamic Republic system, your view of the Islamic Republic, would you stand with Israel when it attacked? If America were to attack one day, would you stand with America when it attacked? Or not? You will continue to stand, and despite all the criticisms you have of the Islamic Republic, the Islamic Republic, starting in April and this morning,

44:19 I myself, as one of those who were surveyed about me, I say no, I would not stand with Israel. I would not stand with Mr. Trump. But look, we did not survey whether the majority of the Iranian people approve of what Sadeq Zibakalam is saying or whether the majority of the Iranian people approve of it. What Mr. Kian is saying is that we have so much hatred and grudge against the Islamic Republic that if the evil regime comes to attack the Islamic Republic, we will still go along with the evil regime. We did not conduct such a survey. We are the only ones who know. The only thing I know is that

45:06 Iran International, now I hope it is okay to mention its name. Iran International made a great effort in the first days after the attack to say that in such and such a place they are chanting destructive slogans. In Aquatan, they are chanting destructive slogans. In Narmak, they are chanting slogans against the regime. That means that many in the opposition were hoping that the people would take to the streets. Maybe Mr. Netanyahu hoped that the people would take to the streets. Maybe Mr. Trump hoped that the people would take to the streets. But I believe that many people are going towards what Sadeq Zibakalam says, that we cannot come and stand next to the enemy, no matter how many enemies we have with the Islamic Republic.

45:58 Let's take it. Thank you. I think if you allow me to offer a third reading, that is, no, your reading is not sympathy for the Iranian people, it is not alignment with Israel, Mr. Dr. Mughleta said, no, if you allow me to offer a third reading, then I will ask your opinion because I posted a poll on my page, I think on the fourth or fifth day, the internet was not yet down. That was the last day. I posted a poll in three stories where I actually asked who do you think is to blame for this and who started the war ? Then the second story is what solution you propose and the third story is

46:46 what kind of person, group or political movement is desirable to you, if, for example, the Islamic Republic resigns or is present as an alternative. I want to say that unfortunately, we have been moving in this direction since 1401, to the extent that the Islamic Republic has started facing political bankruptcy, perhaps from the opposition side as well, because it has not presented any correct formula. It has always caused people to suddenly become passive at times. But this does not mean that maybe people, I mean, I want to say that Mr. Doctor, you as a person who is critical of the Islamic Republic, I perhaps as a person who is against the Islamic Republic, Mr. Kian as a person who is a subversive, in fact, you are

47:32 specifically pursuing subversion. I think that there is a very significant segment of the Iranian people who, by the way, do not have any feelings for the Islamic Republic. They have no loyalty to Israel either. But during all these 12 days of waiting, they kept saying, "Oh my God, why doesn't he just finish this?" I mean, at least the messages that came in my Instagram stories, direct messages, or at the bottom of the posts, now it seems like we know when it's going to happen, for example, this work will end, and people have reached a level of understanding that they say that death is a once-in-a-lifetime thing, crying is a once-in-a-lifetime thing, this story should end once and for all, for example, our children should

48:18 have a comfortable life, regardless of what other scenarios could happen if the Islamic Republic falls, and how correct or incorrect this vision may be. But I want to say that there is a third reading, and I want to ask you this question, Mr. Kian, regarding this reading. You see, in 1401, when the Women's Life of Freedom was formed, we reached a point where a wave of unity was formed by the people of Iran, different spectrums of civil demands were being formed, and even that could have been able to achieve very important things . But the opposition abroad suddenly organized a bus. I don't know about Ms. Masih Alinejad and Ms. Bonadi, and I don't know about those who are

49:05 completely unrelated and irrelevant, and suddenly being together with Mr. Pahlavi, and the result of this was that suddenly the people inside Iran were scared, let's say shocked, suddenly they stepped in, and this became the preferred option for the Islamic Republic. But when the subversives, when the monarchist movement suddenly enters with a radical view, and people feel that, and there is a paradox. You are dropping bombs from there. Israel says, for example, that the people of District 7 should evacuate Tehran. Then our friends sitting abroad say, "People, come out on the streets, people, people, people, people, people, people, for example, District 7, District 5, evacuate these areas, or I say, leave Tehran." Then you say, "

49:52 People, come out and express disgust." Well, even though the government is not falling, we can hear from abroad that people, or intellectuals who are in Iran, can now label them, say, "Roshan, a government intellectual or another non-real intellectual," and now they are returning to the Nitakhani, where anyone can enter. But don't you think that these self- imposed restrictions, whether in the context of a free life or in the current circumstances, have caused people to say, "Hey, it would be better if we just went back and stood behind the Islamic Republic or had a passive policy?" I said all this with the premise that I am against it. In a survey I conducted, I realized that a significant segment of the population is

50:37 against the Islamic Republic. But do n't you think that there is a paradox? Those who are sitting abroad and are actually trying to change the version of power, Dr. Bakhshite? I am a philosophy student. I was taught that you can enter into their discussions as long as you claim that two unrelated things are related. We should not let up on the discussion until we reach a conclusion. But isn't it a truth that we say that the Iranian people hate the Islamic Republic and its symbols?

51:25 More than 80% of this nation said, "We don't want you to be called by any language." And Mr. Zibakalam, I really have to be honest. Whenever I see Mr. Zibakalam speaking, somewhere, 10 or 80 of his speeches were criticism of the Islamic Republic itself, but because he issued a vote, I think that the vote It would be fair if I could prove the opposite, what would they say? Saying that the opposition only thinks about the fall of the Islamic Republic,

52:11 and Mr. Dr. Zibakalam, if they say that Dr. Zibakalam also only thinks about the continuation of the Islamic Republic, you will discuss it with him. If you agree, then yes, you agree. If you do not agree with such an accusation, my request to you is this: You can talk, talk to the military commander, tell him with the utmost respect that we will not insult you. If I insulted you once, it was because I was angry with the way those who are no longer with us treated the people. But my assumption is that those of you who have remained are more humane. Those of you who have remained are less and less stained with the blood of the

52:59 people. You tell them why a General Heiser should come there and tell them no, let's do this, stay neutral, let the people be like this. Who should come and tell them? Mr. Ulyanov should come. Well, it's Mr. Ulyanov who gave this message. Now someone should say yes. You and I should skip the fact that I only think about collapse and you only think about continuity. Let's get to the point today, Dr. Bakhshi. The point is this. The point is that people, as you said, your survey, I don't have a survey. I

53:45 went somewhere and someone told me that you look like someone. I said, "Who is your image?" He said, "Bijan Kian's image." I said, "Who is Bijan Kian?" He said, "Someone like us, someone like us." And this is really the best definition I can give myself. I want to be like them . If 80% of the Iranian people are at war with the Islamic Republic and don't want anyone to distract them, they should see that it was Israel that attacked Iran, not Israel, the Islamic Republic in Iran . The Islamic Republic thinks very, very wrongly. If he thinks he is Iranian, is he Iranian? Where is the Islamic Republic of Iran? Where does the Islamic Republic stand in relation to Iranian thought

54:33 ? No, I think, Dr. and Bakhshite, as you yourself said, sympathy for the people of Iran cannot be based on logic. It cannot necessarily be alignment and support for the war, or it cannot be from a hostile force, or it can be out of patriotism, betrayal of the homeland, and insensitivity to the sense of patriotism. No, that's not necessarily the case. This is not necessarily the case. Proof of something does not negate it. Teach me that I did not get the question. Mr. Kian, please answer your question. No, I did not get the answer to the question. This formula, the formula that the opposition is giving, is nothing other than a request. Now you are saying,

55:19 Mr. Dr. Zibakalam, for example, come and speak. Mr. Dr. Zibakalam and the likes of Mr. Dr. Zibakalam are talking. Isn't he in prison? Should I speak? I am listening. That is, the Islamic Republic says, you said, it is not a request. Look. I can almost assure you with a high degree of certainty. My purpose in saying this is not to, God forbid, hurt Mr. Dr. Zibakalam or you. It is not time for us to go to the end of the article and analyze it. The issue is that I sympathize with the people of Iran. If someone accuses me of my sympathy, I am actually participating in Israel's war against Iran. Israel is not fighting against Iran

56:04 . Israel is fighting against the Islamic Republic, and I sympathize with the people of Iran. Let's not relate this. Let's not relate this. Your question is, has the opposition failed with this performance or not? It doesn't matter to me at all. Let's go back and see what happened. How did it happen? You mentioned the names. What should I answer, Dr. Bakhshi? I have nothing to do with the past. I'm saying this right now. You have an order that you have. I'm sorry. I'm interrupting your order. I never speak in general on live broadcasts. I apologize to Dr. Zibaklam. Sorry. Dr. Zibaklam. I'm talking a little too much tonight. You, I still believe that you have a formula for

56:51 coercion. You're saying it boldly because you think you're saying that they should listen to the non-coercion formula. Dr. Where is the non-coercion formula? We see that they do it. But otherwise, all this was said in different live broadcasts. Negotiations are logical. Why coercion? Don't you think so? I, the Iranian people are very poor. The Iranian people are poor because no one is on their side. In my opinion, it's not the opposition that is abroad who is on their side, nor those who are in the Islamic Republic's basket who are on their side. But the point is, don't you think that the war is making the atmosphere more radical? It's going in a direction where even someone who, for example, is in the Islamic Republic, like Javad Zarif, Now, it seemed like he was talking to a wise man. He also

57:38 threatened Rafael Grossi in such a way that, to make matters worse, the shadow of war would increase, meaning that this atmosphere would make the Islamic Republic more radical. And then, to get past the Islamic Republic, yes, I understand that you are saying that the Islamic Republic would become more radical, that the attacks would intensify, that the Islamic Republic would fall, but what a planter. I say, bring forward a more believable figure than Mohammad Javad Zarif . I think Dr. Zibakalam is much more credible than Mohammad Javad Zarif. Mohammad Jawaz, look at his face. These people who have no power have no executive power. Now, tell me, Mr. Zarif doesn't have it. He didn't have it when I was in office. He was Mr. Khamenei's servant.

58:28 It's just that now, I think we should ignore this. My question is this: Dr. Bakhshte, would you please conduct a survey ? Is the Islamic Republic the same as Iran? See what they say. According to Mr. Doctor, it's not about whether my opinion or the opinion of Mr. Doctor is approved . No, ask this question: People of Iran, do you know the Islamic Republic? Ask and see what he says. Let me continue this question with Mr. Zibakalam. I think it's a joke. I apologize because we all know that the Islamic Republic is someone. I myself have a personal opinion. I think many people have the same opinion. I

59:13 think it's not very correct to say that Israel attacked the Islamic Republic. The Islamic Republic is a government that is located in Iran. Many of us don't believe in this government either. But anyway, this government, with its policies, caused Israel to attack Iran. Israel has attacked Iran. Now we're not saying that Israel is a republic, so where are you, one of you? You say, "I am the Islamic Republic of Iran," but I don't know how many people were killed. An Islamic kind of usurper government. Well, that's all I had to say. What should we do to get rid of the usurper government? I heard, Mr. Doctor, if you allow me to return to Mr. Doctor Zibakalam, it's been a long time. In fact, I must have endured, endured, patiently, Ayub. I spoke, no, please, Mr. Kian, Mr. Doctor.

1:00:02 I will now ask this question and also give the points that you yourself have made. In your opinion, this war atmosphere is now considered to be one that could cause the Islamic Republic to fall. He can also make the atmosphere more radical from the side of a few others . What we are seeing today is that sometimes the extremist currents in the Islamic Republic are insisting more that we should have carried out the operations last year in the first place. And you see, I myself, for example, did not think that anyone else would so openly threaten Mr. Rafael Grossi's statement. Mr. Pourmohammadi should put a green tick. Mr. Reza Rashidpour said, "Well, we were happy, green tick." In other words, we know that when Mr. Pourmohammadi, with his record and the green tick he gives,

1:00:49 says that you are actually telling Mr. Larijani that his turn is coming, in other words, they are actually threatening to kill Rafael Grossi, who is an international institution, this is radicalizing the atmosphere even more. Do you think that in this radical atmosphere, whether the Islamic Republic remains or falls, democracy will emerge in Iran, whether the Islamic Republic remains or falls, Mr. Ahmad? I will answer your question as far as I think it is to your question whether the Israeli attack, this conflict [encouragement], is in the interest of democracy? Your question is, is it going to take democracy backwards? Democracy in Iran is becoming weaker and more marginalized than it already is. But before

1:01:35 I answer this, Mr. Ahmad, you have said several times that Mr. Kian said that he wished that Sadeq Zibakalam or someone else could tell the Iranian military commanders to do the same thing that General Robert Heiser did in 1978. He came to Iran and ordered the Iranian military commanders to stop supporting Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi and start supporting Ayatollah Khomeini. Let's do this now and tell this military governor, sir, stop supporting Ayatollah Khamenei. Let's support the people. I didn't say that they

1:02:24 did a good job. Now, let's let them see the bad. Look, Mr. Ahmad, I am very insistent. I am very insistent that we find out what happened in 1978. The only thing that Heiser didn't do was that Mr. Kian said, "Come and tell the Iranian commanders that because Heiser wrote his memoirs, these memoirs have been translated into Persian." The only thing that Heiser did was that he told them to come and tell the Iranian commanders that because Heiser wrote his memoirs, these memoirs have been translated into Persian. There are no memories in those memories. It was that I received a mission to come to Iran and tell the Iranian generals to tell the Maymashians and the Qorbagis and this and that and that to stop supporting the Shah. Now I assume that this happened at all.

1:03:10 I assume that I lack information. Mr. Abbas Milani's information and Mr. Bijan Kiyan's information are much more extensive, and Heizer has done something similar. Is it because? Is it because the military commanders of Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi were listening to Pfizer? Does this mean that the IRGC commanders, a large part of the IRGC commanders, also viewed it correctly, Doctor? It's true. Khamenei is the same as the Shah's commanders viewed the Shah. Doctor, please allow them to continue their conversation now. I didn't tell you what to say, whether we like it or not.

1:03:56 Then you can give your opinion, whether we like it or not, whether we want it or not. Iran's military commanders, especially the IRGC commanders, believe in Ayatollah Khamenei. This belief is wrong. This is true. It is religious, not religious. It is an ideology that I have nothing to do with its principles, but they accept Ayatollah Khamenei. This is an important collusion between Ayatollah Khamenei and his commanders and Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi and his commanders. But regarding what you said in the short term, Ahmad Agha,

1:04:41 your perception is absolutely correct, and a kind of radicalism, a kind of extremism, a kind of grab and hold, we are going a little bit towards that, that is, these 12 days, one of its social effects is that it is creating a situation of grab and hold. For example, if you want to go from point A in Tehran to point B, they will look for two or three places. Now, I don't know, they are looking for bombs. They are looking for Afghans. I don't know what they are looking for. But the breath, the breath, the expression like this on the street reminds us of the

1:05:26 beginning of the revolution. It reminds us that the Basij has power. Doctor, it's like we lost contact with Dr. Ziba Kalam. Yes, their

1:06:12 internet connection broke. Maybe yes, I think that's what happened. Because, well, in the meantime, when Dr. Ziba Kalam returns to us again, see, Doctor, excuse me, they are recording. You were right. Let the person who is absent from the speech, if there is no problem, come back and leave. Yes, of course

1:07:01 I'm not talking to them. Yes, yes, our internet had a problem. Our VPN had a problem. We were cut off. Now your voice is live. If you want to continue the conversation, yes, yes. I wanted to say that in the short term, it has increased a bit. Some people who are now Jews, Baha'is, are suspicious. I don't know if this is it. But I mean, these past 12 days have been bad for democracy. It has taken democracy back. But, thank God, Ahmed, I believe this

1:07:49 is temporary. Why? Because I think it was today or yesterday, Mr. President spoke a little bit because a feeling has arisen in the Islamic Republic among the officials of the Islamic Republic that after a long time, after 1401, after the women's life of freedom, after all these difficulties, a kind of solidarity has emerged. Although we do not have statistics to ask the people, the same discussion we had with Mr. Kian about what percentage of the people consider the war to be a patriotic war and what percentage of the people consider this war to be a military war that they oppose,

1:08:37 but in any case, a wave has emerged, an opinion has emerged that a kind of solidarity has emerged among the people. Now the basic question that is being raised is how can this solidarity be maintained? How can it be expanded? After a long time, when a kind of solidarity has been established, how can we expand this solidarity ? One way is to strengthen our military base, buy planes, buy tanks, but another way is to try to spread national solidarity and unity . Let's increase civil liberties a bit

1:09:26 . Let's take some and reduce the amount . Let's treat people a little better, kinder, and not be so harsh with them . Let's not put so much pressure on the opposition, critics, and protesters, and let the country's space open up a bit, and this is definitely solidarity. If the space is created, if it is reduced, this opening of the political space of the country will certainly contribute to the solidarity that has emerged as a result of these 12 days,

1:10:13 and I very much hope that the intellectuals of the system will move in this direction to compensate for the past few years to a large extent. Mr. Dr. Ziba Kan, don't you think that the work is over? And now, in fact, the time has passed for the points you mentioned. No, I don't think that the work is over. Because now I didn't want to enter into an argument with Mr. Kian Ward because we don't have any statistics. Look, look, look. Dear Mr. Ahmad Aghaei, Dear Mr. Dr. Bakhshi, Dear Mr. Bizhnikian, You may not believe it, but

1:10:59 there are still those in Iran who view all the criticisms they have of the Islamic Republic system as a symbol, as a religious institution. I don't look at it, but many do. And so, despite all the criticisms they have of it, all the dissatisfaction they have with it, in the final analysis, they view it as a religious institution. In a way, in the final analysis, in They stood by him. This is a reality that many in the opposition do not want to see.

1:11:47 They have so much hatred and grudge against the Islamic Republic that the opposition unfortunately does not want to see some of the facts. Mr. Dr. Kalam, if you allow me to ask another question because your internet is so-so now, do you think that Israel is pursuing regime change in Iran? Israel thought that if I attacked, as Iran International said and believed, as Prince Reza Pahlavi believed, if I attacked today, if I attacked tonight, if I attacked tomorrow morning, they would throw people into the streets. This absolutely did not happen. This absolutely did not happen. So, if, if, until

1:12:34 yesterday, the Israelis thought that if we attack, if Mr. Netanyahu thought that we attack, people would pour into the streets and overthrow this system, they were very wrong, and in fact, these 12 days have shown him that such behavior from the people will not occur. In the current situation, what about the continuation of the story, Mr. Dr. Ziba Kalam? And the future, not just Hazrat Barian? Do you think that in the future, Israel will still pursue the desire to enter the military space, and that is, if there is a little bit of reason in the White House and a little bit of reason in Tel Aviv, they should not

1:13:22 pursue the hope that if we launch a military attack on the Islamic Republic, people will pour into the streets, not pour into the streets. Many of them are in doubt whether the attack is on the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps or on the regime. This is a point. Another point, Mr. Ahmad, dear sir, I had a detailed discussion with the students about the extent to which we can look at cyberspace as a reliable example of the situation of the Iranian people. The comments that Ahmad Agha Bakhshite receives, the comments that Sadegh Zibakalam

1:14:08 receives, how sure can we be that these represent a significant portion of Iranian society? I'm not very sure. Thank you, Mr. Kian. Let me ask you this question in another way . In fact, the Islamic Republic was trying to negotiate with the United States and seek to reduce tensions. Well, I was supposed to deliver the message from the Islamic Republic to Mr. Bitkaf on Sunday, and it was expected that if that message was not satisfactory, then, for example, from Monday to Wednesday, Israel would attack in order to please the Israeli authorities. But Israel, with its preemptive attack, has practically

1:14:53 shocked the negotiations between Iran and the United States. And now, let's look at Mr. Trump's contradictory statements. In the past 10 days, one day there is talk of negotiations, one day there is no negotiation at all, one day there is talk of what Iran should sell its oil for, and one day it is completely denied. You who are in the United States, are you basically seeking regime change, or are you, as someone who is with the monarchists, thinking that Israel is seeking regime change so that it can shape the process that you are pursuing? Mr. Doctor, forgive me. Today, we are constantly encountering issues that need to be corrected. There are many hypotheses. Let me take a minute, now

1:15:42 that Dr. Zibakalam is here, to tell you that Dr. Zibakalam, I understand your feelings. But that's why they tell you that you are the regime's safety valve. That's why your reasons are not enough. Doctor, what you are citing is that there are some people inside Iran who are still religious. I think we have to agree with that. Of course they are, but Doctor, their number is getting smaller and smaller every day. We don't have statistics, you and I, but the Ministry of Guidance of the Islamic Republic, which has statistics,

1:16:28 came and said that 73 people responded to the referendum. I imagine that the Ministry of Guidance of the Islamic Republic, which is not going to hold a referendum to beat itself, published this 73. Then they will be worried and say, "What do you expect?" A government poll was conducted asking people whether they like us or not. Well, it's clear that they're afraid. No, the real figure is above 80. What do you think? Dr. Bazi and the monarchist were used. I don't know who the overthrower is and what the overthrow requires. I don't know who the monarchist is. I support a secular

1:17:16 democratic monarchy based on the principles of consent, equality of opportunity, and the principle of freedom, Article 21 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. I'm not a monarchist. The word monarchy itself does n't fit in there to have any connection with the idea. I'm a secular democratic monarchist. Thank you for this one. Thank you. Well, this live has been very long. I would appreciate it if you would allow us to conclude the discussion and actually conclude the discussion. I was also looking at the comments and questions from the loved ones who were present on this live broadcast . Let me conclude with the

1:18:03 same question that has been asked a lot here: what will happen in the future? Will war happen again? Is it possible to negotiate? These are the questions that we all know best. Dr. Ziba Kalam, if we could hear your summary and now what the future holds, we would be very grateful. Otherwise, I imagine that a situation like that of southern Lebanon may have arisen for Iran. In other words, we know that a ceasefire was reached in southern Lebanon, and negotiations took place. The Israelis

1:18:52 withdrew their forces from Lebanon anyway . But in the past few months, every time the Israelis felt that, for example, Hezbollah was moving its military forces or making statements, they allowed themselves to attack. I think a similar situation could arise in Iran. And whenever the Israelis feel that Iran is doing serious things regarding nuclear weapons without saying that negotiations are taking place, negotiations are not taking place. What does Washington say now? What does Mr. Trump

1:19:39 say? What does Mr. Witkoff say? They should attack Iran very, very quickly and prevent it from developing and advancing nuclear weapons with a military strike. Well, Iran will also fire at Israel, and the question is, is such a situation not very interesting for Iran, of course? But, dear Dr. Bakhshi, such a situation is not very interesting for Israel either.

1:20:25 You know better than me how much the Israelis are spending on the war and how much feeling of hopelessness and distrust in the future has arisen in Israel. There are no statistics now, but some people are thinking of leaving. Therefore, that situation like Lebanon cannot continue for much longer in relation to the Islamic Republic of Iran. Therefore, I believe that although everyone is thirsty for Russell Grossi's blood now, both Iranians, Americans, and Israelis, and everyone wants to

1:21:11 avoid tension, I think that the Grossi file solution was finally implemented. He came back and said that the Iranian nuclear issue, either today, Ahmad Agha, said it, or yesterday, he came back and said that the Iranian nuclear issue has no military solution. The US and Israeli attacks showed that Rafael Grossi was right and that Iran cannot be destroyed by a military nuclear attack alone. Rafael Brusi continued by saying that there is no military solution to Iran's nuclear program and whether we like it or not, we must sit down and find a political solution through negotiations for

1:22:00 Iran's nuclear program. I think this is the only solution. I will ask one final question. I forgot once. I apologize. I am asking this because Russia used the term regime change for the first time. Mr. Peskov, the Kremlin spokesman, said that this could turn the atmosphere into hell. But this is the first time that Russia has used the term regime change in Iran. I want to ask you specifically this: If we think that, as a hypothesis, the Israeli attack intensifies and the Islamic Republic falls anyway due to a foreign attack, do

1:22:47 you think an alternative can be formed in Iran and form a central power? Otherwise, I am looking from Mr. Putin's perspective, from the perspective of the leaders of the palace. I'm watching the Kremlin. I repeat, they are in no way willing or willing to allow the Islamic Republic of Iran to fall. Why? Because the Islamic Republic of Iran is a potential ally of Mr. Putin, not only in

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