One-On-One: The Media & National Development

0:00 Hello and welcome to oneonone. I am seril Stobber. Uh the Nigerian media has a critical role in national development. Apart from shaping attitudes and behaviors, the media provides a voice for the citizens of a nation to advance their aspirations and concerns, promote accountability and ensure effective participation in governance. The Nigerian media played an invaluable role in the struggle for independence and has been an integral part of postindependence development efforts through the early days of independence and the challenges of nationhood to periods of political instability replete with military rule failed

0:46 democratic experiments right up to the present day. The media has continued to perform its traditional role of education and enlightenment. But being a part of the larger society, the media has also come under scrutiny in recent times. Our program today focuses on the media and national development as well as other issues. As I sit with a foremost professor of mass communication, a broadcaster, scholar, administrator and media expert, Professor Umaru Alaji Parti, Vice Chancellor, Federal University of Kasher in Gome State. Thanks for being with us today. >> Thank you very much Sel and good evening Nigerians. >> Right. You are also uh the pioneer

1:32 president of the Society of Nigerian Broadcasters. So we'll have a lot to talk about and what it aims to do. But let's start this conversation from the point of the Nigerian media its evolution over time. As we did say it played a key role in uh the fight for Nigeria's independence and has continued to play a role. Uh but a lot has happened but let's just quickly start that on a brief note. >> Well I thank you very much. The Nigerian media as an institution is one of the most critical sectors in this country that has contributed significantly in the growth and development of Nigeria. We have played many roles at different times. Well, there may be some critical areas that perhaps people accuse the

2:18 media of not playing what the role it should play but on an overall assessment we have played the part we should. And don't forget if you're assessing the role of the media, you must also look at the entire society. You don't just pick the media in isolation and treat it as if it is an independent island within an existing uh area. So uh the media reflects the goings on in the society. It captures the aspirations, fears as well as the happiness of every Nigerian in the context of what it gives to to the rest of us. So if you see the media talking about things that are positive certainly it reflects what is happening in the society. Equally if you see the

3:04 media playing the role of some maybe promoter of ethnicism, religionism and some other uh roles that are subversive to the growth, unity and development of this country. Again look at the larger context in Nigeria. If you say the media perhaps maybe to some extent has some element of corruption. Again look at what is happening in the larger society. So the media one is not owned by people who are from the moon. They are owned by Nigerians. Two those who work in the system are also Nigerians and the content reflects the happenings on daily basis in Nigeria. So overall we are playing our role as we should. uh there may be some drawbacks here and there and

3:50 again it's not only the media if you look at the civil service you look at the security system you look at the educational system they all have their own areas of concern so overall I think we are partners in progress in Nigeria's project >> let's look at it from the premise of uh the pre-independence and the period just after independence where it's felt that there was some patriotism you firing the media to demand uh self-actualization for a nation and that those who worked in the media were driven by one cause to secure nationhood and galvanize um cohesion. I agree with you. Before

4:36 independence, the enemy was one the colonial master. How can you push him out? So there were efforts from maybe some level of commonality between those who were in the media axis to see how they can unite and push the colonial masters out. And not only in the media, politicians too were doing the same thing. So like I said, there was something like a common enemy. But after independence, remember one Nigeria at that time was a unitary state and there we had regions and not only regions, we also had political parties with diverse directions. And if you look at the history of the media in Nigeria, particularly the

5:23 private media, politicians were fully involved in the establishment and sustainance of these newspapers. If you look at them before independence, those who were engaged in the nationalist efforts were at the same time also the newspaper owners and they were the people who transformed into politicians. Talk of Zik, talk of Aolo and up north not here even though it was not so pronounced but they still have some linkages. Most of the newspapers in the earlier days and later days had some kind of linkage with either the politicians or some political parties or with the regional governments. So you could understand everyone at that time was trying to promote his or her own agenda within the federal context and naturally based on the differences in

6:10 the ideology of the parties, the interests of the owners, there were some areas of clashes to the extent that some people even blamed partly the media for the crisis we had in 1966 and some other later periods in Nigeria because they were busy trumpetating and propagandizing for their leaders instead of propagandizing. for the interest of Nigeria and naturally that also led to areas of conflicts and eventually the break outbreak of the civil war. But you cannot simply just blame the Nigerian media equally during the Shagari era with all the factions and the elite intra and interconlicts the issues of political parties and all of that. Again the media was also blamed when the

6:56 politicians were chased out in 1983. Like I've said again, you cannot simply just blame the media. The media is only like uh a voice reflecting the interest of its masters. But some people said there must be a common interest uniting all of us which is Nigeria's unity, development and prosperity. >> Has the media understood that much that there should be or there ought to be uh one purpose? United >> don't forget Nigeria is a federal nation. Nigeria is multicultural. Nigeria is diverse in every aspect that you can think of. In other words, it is a heterogeneous nation made up of different ethnic groups, religious groups and all of that. And these things are reflected in a lot of our conduct.

7:41 Luckily, we are a federal nation where some of these tensions are addressed. But these tensions naturally will be reflected in issues of resource control, political power control, economic issues. So in the course of trying to capture power, in the course of trying to have advantage on the economic system, naturally there will be some kind of what diversity in opinions and some of us instead of understanding where we should be. We now promote our s sectional interests against the national interest. Again remember Nigeria does not have a common ideology where all of us are united because of our intra elite conflicts and

8:27 interests. So there is hardly any point where we are all united. In the past people were thinking that the unity of Nigeria is the main point that none of us will tinker with. But today you could still see in our newspapers particularly with the coming of the digital online and social media where people now simply say whatever they feel like saying with little or no regulatory uh thinking. So here we are today with our legacy media on one side where there's fairly better compared to what you see in the largely democratized space of the internet where people with all sorts of thinking interests and

9:13 sometimes even mischievous behaviors now say what they want to say and these things are promoted to national platforms and widely circulated. Is this for one of a better word a good development or there are sides various sides to >> well for every coin for for for every coin there are two sides there are the advantages there are also the disadvantages you see with the coming of the internet and the revolution in information and communication technology access processing and use of information has been totally or have been totally democratize. It becomes difficult for control and in

9:59 this case you cannot say you're going to part the internet or the airwaves. People will have their own ways of expressing themselves and in our own nation where there are all sorts of contentions. There are all sorts of interests compounded by the economic situation in the country and subverted by some of our politicians or people who think that they ought to be where they are not. So when you combine all of these factors, you can understand why we see a lot of these subversive voices. But the solution is not in exercising control because with these technologies daily newer ways of disseminating information

10:45 are coming up. So how do we promote media literacy for people to become critical thinkers and critical consumers of media messages? How do we also on our own promote things that can make Nigerians feel that Nigeria is a bigger project and is their own country that no matter the effort of those who may want to destroy the country, we are at the end of the day better off staying as a nation and better off uniting on some common points instead of at all times going towards different directions. And these are efforts that all of us must do. Not only the media starting from the educational system where minds are shaped and I can tell you from experiences our educational systems too.

11:32 You have people who do not even understand the concept of Nigeria and they teach younger minds sometimes hatred against different parts of this country. So in the course of our discussions we'll talk more about some of these things. So there's an interesting angle which you brought in. Now the question of media literacy. How well have we done? If we fast forward that particular we're not doing so well in that respect. When you talk of media literacy in a country of about 230 million people with some high level of uh with not so good let me say with some lower level of literacy and compounded by economic troubles definitely we need to do more in terms

12:18 of promoting critical thinking among our people. How can individuals understand that whatever you read on social media, digital media or online media is not completely true that there are so many forces out there, forces of mischief, forces of propaganda and forces of destruction out there who are always promoting sentiments that are not necessarily in best interest of the nation. There was a time I read something on how fake news fail ethnic conflicts in Nigeria. a study done by the BBC with facts and figures giving concrete examples of certain conflicts in Nigeria that were

13:05 engineered by people outside of this country elsewhere but using the social media separating information that were completely not true at the end of the day leading to bloodshed in this country and there are a lot of such examples that many of our people don't understand their roots don't ask questions simply when they see them they now looked at them from the religious angle, ethnic angle, political angle, provincial angle and all of these original angles. So we easily religionize, ethnicize, regionalize, politicize without asking question. So we need to make uh penetrate into the perception of younger people for example

13:50 so that they could understand that it's not every information that they see which may necessarily be correct. So how can they develop that critical thinking and you talk about media literatur is it how can we consume this information to the extent that we understand how to use the information. Well, Prof, if if I get you right, this also has a bordering on objectivity and objective press. But you're an academic. I've also heard people say uh there's no such thing as objectivity that everything is subjective to a certain level that whatever you put out is a reflection of your background, your training and such things. And so uh the concept of objectivity is subjective in itself.

14:36 Yes, I agree with you. You may not have complete unanimity on every issue. In other words, you may not have complete objectivity, but there's what we call intellectual honesty based on superior reasoning. There are also some universal points of agreement where you I else we could say okay something this seems to be relevant or truthful. But in a situation where the point is completely off the mark, it does not indicate any foundational relativity, it does not reflect any common object denomination, then certainly is far from the truth. Now in

15:22 all of this there's what we call credibility in communication based on perception. First, no two individuals perceive the same thing in the same way. And perception is the basis of believability in communication because perception is the way you make sense of whatever you encounter. And just like you have rightly mentioned, perception is a product of our upbringing, our socialization process, our educational level, our income, our community, our religion and a lot of factors combined to influence how individuals perceive whatever they encounter through the uh receptive processes. Now for credibility to occur, there must be four points. what we call truthfulness,

16:08 relevance, competence and dynamism and that credibility is the basis of believability in any communication situation. So any information you encounter whether consciously or unconsciously you are likely going to ask these questions based on your own understanding is these things truthful or not to your own truthfulness or not and especially when what you see goes with what you know and what you hear but where what you see contradicts what you hear or what you know then there will be a problem in that respect. So naturally Nigerians consider a lot of factors in their believability of information that they

16:55 come into contact. Religion, ethnicity, their area of location, their so many other things. And now the thing is compounded by their economic status and what they think of their own governments and their own leaders. You know that a typical Nigeria hardly has serious confidence in in the elites. They're always asking questions. So by time you look at all of these things you can understand why we have issues why people are believing whatever they see on the social media. Why people are thinking that the social media is correct while the alternative I mean the main media is incorrect because perhaps they have been used to getting information that at the end of the day contradicts what they see. So by the

17:44 time you go into some real analysis, you can understand the state of mind of a typical Nigerian whether he's at whatever level. Prophet, I'd like to take you to the practitioners themselves here. Um as is common with almost everything, uh people romanticize the past. Uh they believe the good old days. That's the syndrome. So when you look at people who are in the media space, the practitioners themselves, do you see a an improved quality or um how do I put it now or do do you see that there is a a departure from the

18:30 commitment to the ideals that you used to? >> Well, people can tell you dep perhaps was better than what we are experiencing today. I may not necessarily completely agree with that point. First, you have to look at the issue of quantity and quality. In 1960, when Nigeria became independent, how many newspapers do you have in this country? How many radio stations and how many TV stations? >> What was Nigeria's population? We were just barely less than 60 million. Today, Nigeria's population is 230 million. How many radio stations do we have in Nigeria today? there are almost over a thousand not to talk of those who are online and offline. How many TV stations,

19:16 how many newspapers? So by the time you look at all of this and then look at the contending interest and the developments in the country, by time you look at all of that, you could understand why we may be experiencing some of the challenges that perhaps we may be talking of in the media system. When Nigeria became independent in 1960, there was only one university offering mass communication and that was the University of Nigeria and Suka. When it started in 1960, it was the only one that started with a degree in mass communication. Then perhaps much later University of Lagos came as the second institution. Then Bio University in the 70s, then University of my degree in ' 83. All others came after them. We only had some one or two institutions offering diploma. So a lot of those who

20:04 went into the practice themselves either went to fleet street in London >> or learn on the job they came from other backgrounds some not necessarily with long qualifications but they had the talent and they were lucky to get some level of mentorship and because the number was smaller they were able to perform and it was not as if even at that time there were no issues there were issues only that like I've said not as pontificated as we have today and today is understandable because of our population the exposure and the number and in every situation where you have number you are bound to have some of these challenges today we have so many fake journalists all over the place and it's not only in journalism go to the civil service go to the security system

20:52 go to the educational system these challenges are all there the thing is when you engage in expansion without quality that is extremely dangerous especially in the media system and in the educational system. So we were expanding without necessarily bothering about quality and today the consequences are facing us but that is not even the main problem. The major problem is on how we misuse the social media. Today the legacy media may not be as powerful as it used to be. The major power today is in on the digital aspects and that is where many of us particularly the young are and that is where the damage is being done. You have now issue of

21:39 disinformation, misinformation, malinformation, role mongering, hate speech and all of that. And where do we have all of that? in the social media I mean on the on on on the internet where there are no issues of ethics you don't even know who are the owners you can't even locate their uh offices they are just in this space this is a challenge the world over and we are a part of the global community >> but it would seem as if uh we launched into it with little preparation ation. Not to say that other parts of the world had any form of preparation but uh given

22:25 the level of literacy awareness and uh uh the ability to appreciate social phenomenon it was um where on the downside of it would that be part of the for every advantage there are disadvantages the internet and all these communication technologies have created remarkable opportunities they have come with so many innovations that are useful to the human kind and people are enjoying and utilizing these advantages. But for every advantage there are also disadvantages depending on how you use them. In some places they use all these as tools for economic development, for prosperity

23:11 to for efficiency, for qualitative services. In some other areas, we use them more to cause destruction and division, separate rumors instead of using them for the other aspects. Now going back to what you have just said, these tools are have global standards. These tools are developed and met available to us. If you want to use it for good, fantastic. If you want to use it for bad, then that is your own problem. The issue of regulation is a very difficult one. These technologies are evolving at a very fast speed beyond your own comprehension and the capacity

23:59 to regulate and come up with other laws if you want to call them or whatever form of regulation is so slow that before you understand what is happening a new technology has come. In other words, we are busy trying to master these technologies without necessarily trying to see how we can regulate them for our own good. So each one of us is just trying to learn how do we use this, how do we use this but we have not taken time to also see how do we ensure that they are not used for mischief or they are not used for negativity. And it's not only in Nigeria is a global problem. These technologies are evolving so fast. Remember in how in less than 20 30 years

24:44 we've started from 1.0 today we are talking about 5.0 web and 5.0 is coming with or 4.0 with artificial intelligence ability of machines to mimic the human mind and a lot more. So instead of sitting here to lament in Nigeria, what we need to do is to innovate, turn our institutions like universities into engines of innovation. How can we master these technologies so that we can be sure of being part of the global evolution? Well, speaking of which, you're a vice chancellor of a university and you did say that in the early days there were very few less than a handful of institutions that offered

25:29 any kind of uh training in in in media. But today um the space is so wide there are so many institutions now has that translated into quality that's on one leg and the other side as well. uh you speak of using the university system uh to ensure that we are not just gobbling >> not just the universities I mean our educational institutions generally poly techchnist colleges of education >> so that brings us to the education system is it is it is it well tailored towards appreciating what you've just spoken about here >> we need to do a lot more now let me just give you one or two examples last three weeks I was at a conference in Morocco where I represented Nigeria

26:16 about vice chancellors from 56 different countries attended that conference and I made a presentation on behalf of Nigeria. Uh one of the things that I had at that conference was with the evolution of the internet and the coming of robot the improvement in robotism and artificial intelligence about 92 million jobs are likely to vanish in the next 5 years. Equally about 120 million or so may be created courtesy of these technologies. Which means our universities must understand that we or an institution generally we should not continue to train students for jobs that will disappear so fast and so soon.

27:01 The alternative is we have to renew. We have to retool and we have to refocus to train students that can be flexible, that can be adaptable and that can fit into the evolving scenarios globally because standards are changing and the jobs as we know them traditionally are changing. Look at what is happening in the media sector today. You have tools these AI tools that can produce complete programs for you without any human input. All you need is load uh the tool and it gives you a complete program and is sh is vanishing. I mean these things are causing so many disruptions. So many jobs are vanishing. So instead

27:47 of sitting and lamenting how do we ensure at least in my university we are now introducing courses relating to AI and ethics. Every student must offer such a course issue of critical thinking and we are also trying as much as possible to dismantle all elements that are anti-intellectual that and are likely to affect all these innovations. So it is about innovation. Our and our universities must be innovative. Any university serial that has to close its laboratories, it has to close its libraries after office hours either because there's no electricity or because of strikes or because it has no money then that university is not this

28:33 time for greatness. Laboratories must remain 24 hours open. Libraries must remain 24 hours open and our students must have access to both virtual and physical facilities 24 hours. >> Now this is expanding the conversation to other frontiers because now we are going into infrastructure and this uh may not be readily available given the situation. Well, I'm just telling you this is why if you want to innovate, first you must create the backbone and make the available structure make the structures available because if a university wants to do whatever once the internet backbone or connectivity is not there's nothing it can do or the electricity is not there. Now take the

29:19 media let me take you a little into history. If the most important currency in media development globally and even in Nigeria is one factor technology. Around 14 something the Gottonbar machine for printing was invented and when it came it created the possibility of printing a newspaper no matter how cool it was at the time that as the technology I mean the technology of printing improved the newspaper printing also improved in quality the much later around 18 late 1870 into early 1970 the technology to transmit sound was invented by man that also

30:04 created the possibility of getting the radio. Initially it was a big box but later it was transensorized made smaller to use but and then today you know how the radio looks like of technology. Then a little after the technology of transferring sound and sight. You remember the telegraph and all of that came then that gave birth to what we call the television and film and that also continued to develop got better sophisticated and when the newspaper came I mean when radio came people predicted the death of the newspaper but newspaper didn't die when TV came people said oh no now radio and TV will die the two of them did not die they struggle to survive now during our period the

30:49 internet With the coming of the internet, it also gave birth to what we call convergence particularly for the media and with convergence radio, TV, newspaper are all threatened now. So they are all converge onto one platform. Now you have the platform or the politics of platform on in the internet. If you are not on the platform as a media organization, you know you are off. So you can see in all of this the constant factor has been what? Technology. then political will by those behind the scene who are promoting the evolution of this technology and a lot more factors like economy and all of that. So if the political will and the political commitment is weak that technology will also not come and it

31:37 affects the universities and the general society. >> Interesting. We'll take a short break here. Uh when we return there will be more on the subject matter. Stay with us and oneonone. We'll be right back. >> Why should we be in a difficult situation financially? >> Once upon a time, we were rich, but we are not a rich country anymore. >> Disaster management is everybody's business. >> In all these times, uh, the organization turned to Nigeria. We would as much want to harness the capacity that is within us uh so that we see how we can uh become self-reliant. >> One month ended and he said we are

32:24 increasing one strike by 2 months. I mean you incubating madness. Even if these are officials of government who have been told to go and enforce the law and they have gone against the law itself, they must be held accountable. Oneonone Friday 10:30 p.m. on NTA Network. >> Thanks for staying with us. I'm still here with the mass communication teacher, university administrator, uh, Professor Umaru Pati, who's also president of the Society of Nigerian Broadcasters. Just before the break, it was an interesting scenario you painted. Technology. Yes. On the

33:12 other side of it, this same technology, uh, you you did talk about doing away with anything that will be anti-intellectual. uh but somehow we find that even technology itself when not employed correctly uh might be bordering on the antilt anti-intellectual take for instance AI and I'm coming on this because u you've been an academic these days how much of knowledge do students embibe when they can simply uh return home and uh ask AI to do all the assignments and uh write do all the

33:57 writeups for them without with little or no input. >> Thank you. Uh Serel, my understanding and opinion may slightly be different from yours. I don't agree that AI is completely anti-intellectual. No, not completely, but it could be used for >> it is a tool >> available for you to work with. If you want to work with it negatively, >> it gives you that negativity. Equally, if you want to use it positively, it gives you positivity. Don't forget, as a tool, it only answers questions that you have asked. It does not give you the context. It does not give you that human component. Now before then you need to

34:44 understand that these innovations have come and they have come to stay and they getting improved on daily basis. It is either you shape innovate and survive or you reject stagnate and vanish. These are the realities and these technologies are in almost every aspect of life today. Even prescriptions many people no longer go to the hospital and they sit go to AI and get the details. So the challenge for us is how can we one master these technologies at our own levels. Two, how can we ensure that we also have

35:30 inputs? We have our own resources that AI can also access instead of waiting for resources created by others and loaded on the internet for if you AI is not as if it goes to the moon to bring any information. It works based what is available. So how do you teach your younger ones to master these technologies and understand the ethical use of these technologies? newspapers, radio stations, TV houses, radio houses that is in my own sector >> are all utilizing these technologies and they're getting more and more sophisticated by the day. >> So if you think you can just stand and complain or lament and face the wind,

36:15 you're just wasting your time. The whole world has embraced it. So our own duty is not to sit and be lamenting and say it is anti-intellectual. How do we train our minds? How do we get the skills to understand how we are going to utilize them? If you have a car, this car of yours can drive you to a church where you go and pray to your lot. It can also take you to a bar where you go and drink and get drunk depending on how you use it. So, is a technology available to you? The same thing with AI is just a tool for you to use. So how do we now train our student? That was why I told you that in Kasher University from next semester we are introducing

37:00 courses in AI and ethics so that we can train our students to understand the relevance of these technologies and how they can ethically and responsibly use these things and also issue of critical thinking so that they can critically understand whatever information that is available. Is the is the job of teaching and learning a lot easier now with AI or more challenging? >> It's more easier or or let's say let's say is easier because these technologies are supposed to improve to to to come with efficiency to add quality and to make it easier for you. Today on my telephone handset I have library a

37:46 complete library of hundreds of thousands of books moving with them which I cannot carry physically. Our students can access books in different parts of the world. So the first challenge is how do we change the perception approaches and orientation of our lecturers who are supposed to be the drivers. Many of us are still analog in the university system unfortunately or in our institutions generally starting from primary op. Many of us are analog. Number two, so the challenge for government today is how do we change the orientation of these drivers of change? Number two, how do we create the backbone in our institution so that these things can be available to our students and to our lecturers and generally the educational system so that

38:33 they can be efficiently and seamlessly available and then we now focus on how we are going to use the content to understand that AI cannot give you context. AI can only answer the questions you asked. And AI has no emotion and has no human feelings, but it can assist and facilitate and make your job easier and make it more efficient. This is what the technology is bringing. Uh let's come back to the media and the challenges of EI and um you've been known to speak about that for instance and this is in the question the matter of fake news and uh impersonations where it's possible now uh to churn out

39:22 something that is completely untrue and uh you'd hardly ever know the difference people >> and this is this is where the issue of critical thinking comes around or comes up where this is the issue of emotion the issue of human understanding coming now you see with the coming of the internet like I've said at the beginning democratiz there's democratization of access to information and use of it there's a difference between information and communication >> but many of us don't even know the difference so part of critical thinking is to make an individual well understand the difference between information which is uncertainty reduction and communication

40:08 which is interactive with 100 naira data very cheap and an access to an Android phone somebody can cause confusion that can lead to loss of billions in this country why because he has with his Android data he can manufacture a lie >> pretend that it is true and where you have people who are very vulnerable either due to educational deficiency or for some personal interests may take the information as true and then go on some negative uh steps especially where you have poverty where you have hunger that become elements in the hands of

40:54 mischief makers. People who are desperately poor are looking for anything that can help them to do to live and mischief makers will now capitalize on that and cause confusion. So the internet gives them access to do all of that. This is why from the beginning I said we have to educate our people because the internet will not stop functioning. By the way these technologies are getting better by the day. So our responsibility is how do we now ensure that our people are eminently equipped with the right skills and the intellectual capacity as well as have the cognitive ability to understand what is truthful from what is not truthful

41:40 and have the filters imbued into their minds to understand what is propagandistic and what is not. And this is not an easy thing to do. So it's not by legislation. You can bring up all the laws. You can bring up all the sanctions. It will not work. It can only work through education to influence the perceptive processes of individuals and for them to develop the capacity to differentiate from what is truthful from what is not truthful. Technology will not mind. and how do we use these technologies instead of us in Nigeria sitting distributing rumors causing confusion. And you see the issues again are further compounded by our security situation and

42:27 economic situation. People no longer travel a lot by rot because they fear. People no longer leave schooling to go from their communities to go to other communities. People no longer even trading go to other places because they fear. So even the level at which Nigerians interact among themselves to understand themselves within a d I mean a diverse federal system has reduced. So people sit in my degree exchanging hatred on people in the south south because they have never even gone to the south south to understand the dangers and problems of pollution. People in the south south sit and be talking about booam and other issues in the north is east thinking that the entire not is a mangabian crisis because they have not gone there to understand the issues of deforestation and other

43:14 problems of poverty. They think over there people are rich. So people in the central zone sit and be talking about ethnicity and telling you you are not a son of the soil therefore you should leave their land without knowing that there are people are also living elsewhere because we no longer travel and our children who are growing up no longer interact in schools. There are schools for the rich there are schools for the poor. The children of the poor go to some wretched and miserably equipped schools where the teachers themselves are looking poor without facilities and they graduate have debt. Children of the rich go to private primary schools that are well equipped, secondary schools that are well equipped. They go to universities that are well equipped. All within Abuja here

43:59 while the children in the villages end up going to maybe not so equipped government schools. At the end of the day, those who are in Abuja don't understand the problems and silent issues of those children who are in the villages. By the time they grow up, they also fixed into a big appointment in Abuja. And they will now be taking decisions for villages in Boro, in Yanagua, in all of these without ever traveling to these areas, without reading about these areas, without even watching TV programs on these areas. So that empathy is just not there and you can see the disconnection which should be resolved through political decision making and the segmentation is so clear. Children of religious groupings also go to religious schools. Those who are in

44:46 Catholics go to Catholic primary school, Catholic University, Catholic secondary school. Those who are in isala go to Isala Primary School, Isala Secondary School, Isala this, Isala that. The same thing with Sunni. The same thing with other groupings. You have so many religious based schools from primary to university. By the time they graduate, that feeling that sensitivity to the other fellow to the other Nigerian is just not there. is possible today on the campus of my university to marry a lady have a child that child will attend primary dinary in my university will go to the primary in my university we'll go to the secondary in my university and will attend the university and they will go and cook up NYC posting to some nearby area and at the end of the day I will come to Abuja here lobby and get an appointment for him where he will be

45:31 given a file dealing with the entire Nigerian context he does not know anywhere outside of Abuja or outside of one his own area. So how can you have a Nigerian leader that is completely informed of every unit of Nigeria and will be empathetic to be able to address these issues. These are some of our challenges that are now becoming subversive to our process of national development and unity. When the media reports on these issues, is it considered as scaremongering? Is it considered as uh fanning the

46:18 embers of division? Or when the media papers across them, is that what patriotism should be? Let us not talk about patriotism yet. Nobody is more patriotic than a journalist. Everyone is patriotic in his own right depending on his own duty. You are patriotic as a media professional. Someone somewhere too is patriotic. You are on contributing your own quarter. So what we are trying to say here is that the media may have its own excesses. But remember is it only the media that has excesses? What of our political class? What of our economic class? What of the other areas the civil service when decisions are taken

47:05 based on ethnic interests >> where decisions are taken based on religious interests or when decisions are taken based on some other primordial interests that are not so clearly defined >> right >> then the media naturally will reflect this and don't forget the media depending on where they are located are also agents of some interests Well, Professor Pat, let's quickly uh in the remaining few minutes we have talk about the Society of Nigerian Broadcasters and um its place in broadcasting generally and uh what do you see of the future of broadcasting here? >> Thank you. The future of broadcasting remains bright. After all, information

47:51 dissemination now is about video and audio. any people hardly read again. The culture of reading and not only in Nigeria globally is declining. So most people will want to see and want to hear than read which means broadcasting is still relevant. But that should not give broadcasting complete confidence because of the onslaught of the internet. Now everything is going to podcast platforms and all of that. So the challenge for broadcasting is to ensure that we are able to mainstream these technologies. We are able to build capacity for our professionals to understand how they can handle these technologies to be able to

48:38 have managements that can address five fundamental issues in the broadcasting system. Issue of funding, issue of technology, issue of content, issue of credibility, issue of freedom and safety as well as how they can become competitive where you have so many new owners that are coming up on TV, online TV, online radio. You have so many fragmentations and you have a changing test of the audiences because of their access to global TV stations, global radio stations where the standards are up. So how do we also raise our standard here so that our audiences are not just hooked onto

49:24 international channels but they also see relevance in our local channels and give attention to that. So the Society for Nigerian Broadcasters has a fundamental goal of ensuring that our broadcast system and our broadcasters are up to date and are well equipped to be able to serve the interest of Nigeria and for Nigerians. They should understand Nigeria as their constituency and master these technologies and be able to deliver so that we can remain relevant. And to be able to achieve this we are busy focusing on issue of capacity at all levels of the broadcasting system like I've told you at the beginning and we are doing that gradually. We have the the the body is less than a year even though it has been there but maybe kept

50:11 in the coolers until last year when the thing now was given some kind of life with our election by the Nigerian uh broadcasting industry to lead that particular component. We are not rataw, we are not nu, we are not a trade union. We are more of an interest group that is focused on issue of capacity and then ensuring that our relevance is sustained so that all these technologies will not consign into of history. So for round uh we have branches all over Nigeria in all the states we have coordinators. We have our zonal coordinators also and at the national level we have our executive team. We have our headquarters in Abuja here courtesy of some wonderful federal

51:00 media organization. We have wonderful offices and we are looking for partnership and collaborations from different bodies all over the world so that the Nigerian Broadcasting Society can also be on the global rad to be competing with others all over the world. Definitely we are on track. We just have about four minutes left and um I believe this is where we can't let you go without commenting on trends in broadcasting these days. Uh there's such a thing I I just want to ask your opinion about there's such a thing which they say well if the audience loves it then it's okay. It's the matter what is referred to adversarial in interviews

51:45 and broadcasting. What are your thoughts on those briefly? >> I don't know what is adver adversarial broadcasting uh but I believe there should be some element of decorum. There should be some element of knowledge and there should be some some people say aggression. I don't know whether it's aggression or not but the broadcaster must be quotious in relating with his uh do we say interviewe and it's not a fight the difference between us and the police or the SSS is in the SSS and the police or EFCC they interrogate you in the media we interview you even though they also saying they interview now they no longer interrogate so when you

52:33 interrogate by An individual is supposed to answer when you interview the individual is at will to answer or not to answer. So it is all about ethics. It's all about taking responsibility and respecting your audience. I came into your studio on choice. You can ask some difficult questions but please be courtious. Please allow me to express my opinion. Please understand that I am also entitled to say what I say based on my own perception and understanding not necessarily based on what you perceive or what is your own understanding. If that is the case then why did you call me? So >> on a final note um this is pretty

53:21 subjective as well. I admit to that and that's um when you look at the Nigerian mediacape and uh the press in this country would you say Nigerian press is free as a final rap? It is relative and contextual, >> right? >> Who is free and who is not free in Nigeria? When you suffer economic depression, when you suffer illiteracy, when you suffer hunger and wretchedness, are you free? Whether you are a journalist or you are a common Nigerian. So we have to be free like Amatas said in his book freedom is development from these chackles that are strongholds on us and these

54:06 things are systemic that we need to take time >> to liberate ourselves from. >> Professor Omarupate Vice Chancellor Federal University of Kashir Gome State and President Society of Nigerian Broadcasters. It's been interesting talking to you. We wish we could go on with this conversation and we we would like to ask you to come again so we can expand. >> I will always be available. This is my constituency >> and I will always ever be available for 8 years. >> And speaking of which, we can also say to you, welcome home. Thank you very much. >> Thank you very much. >> And that's our program today. We thank you for watching. Next week, we'll be back with oneonone. I'm Sirill Stober