Roald Dahl's Matilda: The Musical (2022) dir. Matthew Warchus | Showgays: A Movie Musical Podcast

0:01 [Applause] [Music] just because you're little you can do a lot you must let a little thing like little stop you there you go oh my god do we have a Matilda stand in the house today maybe a little bit wow we love see um welcome back to another episode of show Gaz of M musical podcast this week we are talking about roll dolls Matilda the Musical the movie uh C musical podcast I'm gonna continue to push for that Rebrand well

0:49 we're doing we'll do the Rebrand after you know what we'll announce the show we'll huge huge announcement it's so the show is this year is going to be part Awards part um Apple Apple keynote address Apple keynote showing the new features showing the new features of showc uh R.J how are you I'm good I am exhausted um we just did a full week Workshop of my play yes it's true and it went great it was so much fun it went for sure yeah um oh oh girl if you only saw Adam's little um uh crying ass on the front row honey a yes Maria I mean ever since I mean

1:37 Adam will tell you the play has has gone has has been she's she's she's a different girl than when I read her first yeah she's a changed girl since that that first time I read her a couple years ago now maybe I think I was in Madison I read it it's beautiful then I'm sure it remains beautiful but new new iterations yeah so excited about that I've been editing the the Pro Shot cuz we had we filmed de so did you get the license to do that absolutely from myself I gave myself uh yeah I build myself um so on that link I I'll be sure to share it to you because I I would love for you to see how how far it's come um but it was fun my friends were in town from high school um so we gallivanted throughout the streets of

2:24 Chicago um you know closed I I thought I closed down the place but it turned out um my friend stayed later the the night the night before they left cuz I thought we stayed up pretty late that first night that they were here but did you know that there are times after midnight that's that might be what what's tripping you up yeah it keeps going after yeah yeah resets I know wow there's a um there's also there's a bar here in in like in our neighborhood where you can like bring your own food which is nice so like it was like a midnight decision we're like well this pizza meeting house so we were like this pizza place is CL

3:09 yourselves um Adam will bleep it sure um no I won't so we we like bought a pizza like right at midnight and then like ate it at the bar why would I believe one of our local queer establishments are the support absolutely and then the next day we went back to that bar for a very difficult game of trivia like we were like this is int I can't this is too much it's been a while since I Didia logic puzzles yeah they had logic puzzles and it was it was actually funny because it was like these are the four hosts these are the four Lubes that they each bought and these are and these are four uh these are four the full grid four prices and you have to match who bought what at what cost and they gave you like word Clues like Crystal bought

3:56 uh boy butter uh Jan bought more yeah we were it was crazy we were like how this is int I me I was here for like I want come to this bar trivia I by the way may be in Chicago in October oh y oh we're out of town the whole month Fun Molly that's that's um we can record oh no that no we can't never mind oh you thought it was gonna be Show's I thought that was showy but it's not showy is November fam nober people stay tuned every November I mean we pull huge ratings for the show obviously it's everyone social event of the season if we ever did like a bonus episode where it's like we didn't watch a movie I

4:43 think it would be fun to do a a show gase trivia where we like ask each other questions remember when I did quizzes on like two episodes of this of this podcast I I did one for the whz okay I asked like New York questions okay and then I did one for what was the first show we did when we came back cats I think I did a cats one I asked the different names of cats you did play that was fun but it was very hard to do themed trivia each time so I was like listen it's not easy it's not easy being a trivia trivia girly it's not it's true Molly how are you I'm great nothing going on with me okay great anything in the mailbox anything in the oh we do we do have some mailboxes she's always that

5:30 I oh I forget that that's my I see them when they come in um and then I forget um do you do a little flag on your inbox I do I star and I also leave them on red Bryce um wrote in say Howard amazing I have no additional I have no additional information on brce um oh my God hi hope y'all are well and spelled y'all Y A WL which I love y y um so gagged that this was some of y'all's first time watching the best dcoms Adam in reference to Cheetah Girls um Adam is right that Halloween is better not not all that jazz that wasn't the decom they were referring to no I forgot to redo the subject line is Cheetah Girls is the context of this zo mb3 is facing tough

6:19 competition just inquiring if y'all have heard of one of the most cheerful fun touching movies of the last five years what do you think that Bryce is going to ask us to watch touching last five years the last five years is it will is it [ __ ] Wily twinky Wonka the girls are clamoring for twanka clamoring girl we'll just tell you right now it's our December 15th episode okay we're just going to announce it right now we'll do twanka I guess we have to commit at this point yeah it's going to be Wicked and then twanka okay everybody's happy um Bryce says it kind of has everything like a take on illiteracy in in quotation marks and just Joy I

7:04 mean that was Annie 2014 too so really you know wait no wait a minute that's interesting that's interesting you ever seen those two movies room at the same time I've never seen those two movies in the same place uh so yeah I guess we have to watch Twan guys is what I'm telling you unfortunately we're bummed and how very fitting as we are have watched a r doll today oh reallying them up um that's it that's it for the letter the mailbox that's it for the mailbox okay thank you thank you Postman you can go now let me do some Foley work of you leaving the room don't be shy don't be shy Divas to us right in drag us to filth

7:49 drag us to filth or tell us the first time you ever saw one of the movies that we've watched where were you and Cheetah Girls dropped you know MH um RJ this week we watched roll dolls Matilda the Musical and you have to summarize it in a minute or less okay okay okay your time starts now Matilda Wormwood a smart and imaginative girl who loves to read books and tell stories has been despised by her parents since she was born an inspector forces the worm would to admit Matilda to Crunch him Hall a school where the sweet Miss honey teaches and where the villainous Agatha Trunchbull serves as head mistress Matilda stands out as a girl with so much brains and who isn't afraid to speak out against trench bow who hates children and treats them all like sinful maggots she finds Solace and Miss honey who is also the victim of trench Bow's bullying Matilda's Anger from the

8:35 mistreatment she gets from her parents and trench bow makes her discover her powers of telekinesis and uses that to hatch a plan to revolt against Trunchbull and help Miss honey be the rightful administrator of crunch Hall Matilda uses trench's past evils of being responsible for Miss Honey's parents' deaths against her scaring her away and liberating crunch Hall at the end Matilda's parents leave town granting maa's wish to stay with Miss honey as her new family and that is under a minute very good wow and the I love to adjetives v a writing I'm just like in a writing state of mind you know well okay let's worksh okay well then we have not no well the workshop's over the one thing I will say I did not bring up um Mrs Perth Miss Perth the librarian and how Matilda

9:21 likes to tell stories as a way to kind of like Escape how her feeling how to like Express how angry and and and she feels it almost feels like that that was her way before the telekinesis happen like it was like her Outlet well it's an outlet but also we learned that that's part of her like Powers because she tells this very Vivid story about the acrobat and his wife but then we we realizes the movie goes on that it's actually the real life story of Miss Honey's parents so it's been transported into her brain yeah so it's not just fantasy as it turns out it's part of something Supernatural happening um Molly how do you feel about the phrase Matilda stands out as a girl with so much brains um I liked it because I liked the

10:07 part where the kids said that telek canyes is where you have so much brains it leaks out through your eyes so leaps out through your eyes I felt that it was fitting for this uh summary this childlike view that the movie frames things around yes yes um RJ Matilda the Musical so nothing on Matilda the Musical this was my first time interacting with it I had I think i' heard like a couple songs I think it was when I grew up um on the Tony I don't I couldn't I was so many years ago now I have no idea but I recognized when I grow up I've heard the like like I've heard that just like in yeah cultural osmosis um but I loved

10:53 Matilda the movie I the 19988 movie or 1996 I'm sorry uh obsessed with that [Music] movie do you know who directed that film Angley Danny DeVito oh yes he directed it yeah Dano and another thing I learned about that movie because I didn't really include anything about the first film in the because it's not it's not touching this at all really is that um Mara Wilson's mom died like four months before the movie came out Mara Wilson plays Matilda the film and so the movie's dedicated to her and she had I guess had cancer and they knew she was going downhill so um Danny deito sh like screened it for her so she could see

11:39 Mara and as Matia before she passed away it's very it's very sweet very sad yeah yeah yeah I like was obsessed with that movie I owned it on tape I would watch it all the time every time it was on like if they showed it on like cable TV I would watch it I used to like stare at door knobs and pretend like I could move it if I could just remember like all the times my parents yelled at me for you know not mistreatment but like why haven't you done your homework or stuff like that but yeah I would I was obsessed with her and I wanted to be her yeah I was obsessed with that movie Ladies and Gentlemen H ladies and gentlemen Ladi and gentlemen Matilda Molly how about you Molly how about you um I obviously share your love for the 9s version um this is actually the first movie that I watched for the

12:26 podcast with Andrew um and whole time we were watching Matilda he was like oh with Danny DeVito and I said no not that version then no no Emma Thompson yes well he asked me if there were any cast members of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia that were in this version because that is his favorite television show it's always fny they all work at the bar I just found that out on it's always four characters they just oh yeah I just thought they were like regulars like cheers yeah um uh where was I going with this oh I have seen two Junior versions of this on stage I've worked at two different theater camps that did versions of this I've never seen yeah it's a very

13:12 good show to do with kids um I've never seen a full length production of it but I am obsessed with when I grow up it makes me cry whenever I watch it and uh a little bit naughty um or just naughty I think is what the song is called na um I would sometimes listen to naughty when I was working on my dissertation and I needed a little like you can do it pick me up I would listen to that song yeah so I'm a a light fan I would like to see a full professional um version of yeah I would like to see it on stage for sure I would like to see it on stage with the caveat that it doesn't need to be two and a half hours I do I do want to specify that um I am like RJ only I don't think I'd ever read Matilda weirdly enough cuz I read the synopsis on Wikipedia today

13:59 and I was like I don't remember some of this so I think Matilda was one of the r dolls that I didn't read cuz I think I had like a collection like a like a four book little set of roll dolls I think it was like BFG Willy Wonka um elevator no not glass elevator because I ended up renting that at the library because I wanted to know what happened no uh uh James and the Giant Peach may actually maybe it was the witches maybe yeah maybe it was the witches those four yeah um Matilda's one of the more popular ones that's surprisingly didn't have it in there but James and D Peach and Willy Wonka I can see for sure yeah yeah um but yeah they uh you know I mean we've already touched on some some stuff about R doll when we did our Willy Wonka episode so I'm not going to get too into Mr Mr problematic figure problematic

14:46 figure but you know he is often regarded as one of the great children's authors of all time so there's a lot to contend with there um but yeah I have not I did not know any of the songs from from this I had not i' heard like people thought the movie was good uh when this came out people had you know said glowing things about it so I was I was excited to see it and I think it was you know I think it was good that sound good Miss teid response bit bit tepid in the before we get into it let's talk about Matilda so Matilda uh is published in 1988 two years before R doll dies um it is a so the the story is pretty much the same as what we watched in this definitely obviously the

15:33 1996 version is pretty different a because it sets It in America um but be there's some other changes as well in the original idea for the book roll doll imagined that Matilda was like kind of a wicked girl and she was like like a brat um and a publisher named roxburg at his American Publishing House apparently sent him a letter with notes that he ended up incorporating which was to like make her like more innocent and like maybe like she likes to read books or something like that so some of that he ended up switching out but he never gave credit to uh rockburg the bi his biographer later found these letters and that's how they pieced together how he changed the story from until death so that's interesting um but Matilda in the book

16:20 she has a brother his name is Michael um in the book um that was that was really a big change is also in the stage show oh is he in the stage okay um because he's not in the 96 version is he or brother the thing about the brother is that he's always watching television he's always that's right okay now minor I see why they cut it in that in just for like a streamlining purpose but he's there for some he has some good jokes because he's just constantly glued to the TV yeah yeah that makes sense okay um there were a couple other things but pretty much the the show follows along the story I would say except for the story of the escapologist that is pretty pretty manufactured for the show the

17:07 musical um so Matilda the Musical comes out in 2010 uh wow yes music and lyrics are by Tim Minchin who is a musician uh I would say like musical comedian yes that is a good apt description he also ends up later doing Groundhog Day the Music so he's now done two big big big big big musicals um it goes on to musical like one of those yeah it go it goes it gets glowing reviews uh the West End loves it I think it's technically still playing in the Weston I don't think it's technically I mean it closed for Co but sure that was like while I was on Hiatus um I think it's still playing um it had a really long Broadway run it's been

17:54 everywhere on earth like the list of Productions across the globe is crazy it's a perfect show for kids it's you know there's a lot there's a lot to like about it makes sense so at the Olivier I say they Baff us the Olivas um it won best in musical best actor in a musical for birdie Carville who played oh because Trunchbull in the show is played by a man in in a in drag um well really a Blok can address but uh that's the energy going on there so Trunchbull one and then best actress in a musical all the all the Matilda's won obviously it's a child's role so there's multiple there's multiple girls playing them and then it was it won best director best theater choreographer best set design uh best

18:39 sound design and was nominated for best performance in a supporting role in a musical best lighting design and best costume design so she kind of cleaned up big big show okay so then Matilda the Musical sorry roll dolls Matilda the Musical which is the official title of this film comes out in 2022 it's directed by Matthew warus he had directed the original production in the West End um so this is like uh what's her name who did um Across the Universe yes Julie T well no because that wasn't a show she was Mama Mia Mama Mia wasn't oh wasn't Jamie also it was the same team that did That's great so it seems like

19:25 British shows do that a lot British theater directors are are able to like make the film adaptation screenplay is by Dennis Kelly it's based on R dolls Matilda uh the musical and then also Matilda by R doll it's produced by Tim bevon Eric feler John Finn Luke Kelly at stars Alicia Weir is the titular M Matilda Melinda wormwood you know Melinda um Lana Lynch plays Miss honey uh you may know her if you're a fan of the Marvel Cinematic Universe as Maria Rambo uh Steven Graham plays Mr wormwood Andrea riseboro who I know that name but I do not know what I know her from I can tell you what you know her from you know her from the Oscars controversy she was the one that she was in like a little Indie movie and then

20:12 there was this big Push by fellow actors to get her an Oscar nomination two years ago yes but then because of that push there were no actresses of color or maybe one actress of color that got nominated for the role at all and then a bunch of attention went to like how this campaign happened to put her up for an Oscar because it ended up making Woodfield less diverse that were nominated Leslie it was a t Leslie was the film yeah two lesli was the film w i remember that controversy wow she plays Mrs wormwood um and then Emma Thompson plays Miss trench ball so they went with a a lady casting for the but dragged up I'll tell you I mean if you didn't know Thompson yeah she it's definitely still

20:57 a drag roll for sure yeah I mean we've listen we all watch Nanny MC we know she loves to put on a bit of a prosthetic call it a day you know uh cinematography by T tat Radcliffe it is edited by Melanie an Oliver the music is by Christopher Nightingale production companies are triar pictures working title films and the r doll story company it's distributed by Sony Pictures releasing International and Netflix internationally which is where we watched it uh it was released in the UK on November 25th 2022 but in the United States on December 9th for a small limited run in America um it's running time is 118 minutes and the box office gross is 35.6 but we do not have a

21:42 budget so I don't know I don't know I can't tell you with these streaming ones I can't I can't we don't know yeah who knows maybe it made money maybe it didn't they'll never tell us um okay so originally Ralph no sorry I always say his name wrong W fines was supposed to be cast's trench bow like announced a year before and then it ended up swapping to Emma Thompson so I don't know what they never said like why they never said anything but I'm curious I'm sure it would have been great he's great obviously another man down to you know do some do a bit of prosis yes famously very famously um and then um I have this photo if you go into the document m

22:28 there's a photo of Emma Thompson in sense orend it's bras um much should I just said it much do about nothing yes sorry thank you much do about nothing um never listen to women there is a there's a part in the movie when Trunchbull is on a swing in a white dress and it's it's directly referencing Emma's performance I really like that muchado do I have not seen the yeah wasn't there a Jos Weeden one like the black and white the black and white one that shot over like four days or whatever that was like that was like when we took Jos Weeden the most seriously and then and then right after after that we were like oh can yeah yeah um not a ton of background fun

23:14 information on this film it seems like they just you know it took some time to get the rights and then they got it together and they made the fil film it's on netlix now it's on Netflix yeah the biggest cont controversy the biggest thing that was like it was supposed to be released in theaters and then Sony was like The pandemic's Happening Netflix you can have it so gotcha sure cool um the week this comes out I have UK box office so this will be a nice change of pace okay so um the week this comes out Matilda's number one but I will tell you everything that's 10 to two so 10 is banshees of in airan this is so recent it's so weird to think nine is ly ly crocodile a movie that we may do one day eight is a movie called living oh I live girl I live uh seven is Black Adam

24:02 uh which was the Shazam it's DC okay six is bones and all five is the menu that was Rin that is Rines yes that's why I could do trunch ball it would have been a conflicting uh media junk he wouldn't have known he would he would have had two movies where he was watching people eat food in front of him at the same time and really it's the same audience too for those two movies confusing yeah you will be so confused four is a really uplifting film called she said uh three that that I saw in theaters that's the Harvey Weinstein film re is Strange World which is the uh Disney animated film I think it's Pixar actually uh it's it's the one where he's

24:48 like gay or something I don't know two is black pan two is Black Panther will count forever and one yes Angela Basset black panther will forever yes ah okay I read this thing that like Angela Basset who was nominated for an Oscar for that film she made $350,000 ,000 and Robert Downey Jr just signed on for like4 million or something no $95 million to play Dr D to play Dr everyone is like why the [ __ ] are we paying this much money that's all that's all wow well let's talk about the film okay [Music] all right I'm going to come in hot and I'm GNA say I feel very lukewarm on this

25:38 okay musical oh I think I I think I think a lot of the technical aspects really warmed this movie for me but I feel like every song I was like either a hit or it was a full Miss for me so I kept and it kept like every other song was the opposite so I kept being like Ping ponged by this film in a way that uh was slightly frustrating but I think it's it's a good it's a good time I'm sure kids would love I'd love to watch a kid watch this movie because I think they have a good time watching wish my nephews watch it they would like it yeah um I hated the CGI slop at the end I got really annoyed about that but like the chains yeah that that sequence just felt there's no weight to it it really bothered me but yeah all of a sudden it

26:24 was like oh we're doing like I think to okay I'm not sure of this cuz like I said I've never seen a full stage show but the junior version that I saw which was pretty complete but just kind of truncated it did the chalkboard thing and then that was what sent TR scar her away yeah I felt like that's that's what happens in the book it's just the chalk yeah so I felt like so so again maybe I'm wrong because maybe like obviously when you're doing a junior version you're not going to put as much technical effects in there but like it felt like it was like it built to that and then she just like knocked over the chalkboard she's like it won't be that easy and it was like I felt like they were setting up for like the movie needs more stuff that happens we've we've CGI so much already let's make it a really big and scary thing yeah which I will say I actually

27:09 did I actually didn't think this movie had a lot of CGI really until the end like there were definitely additional like there was definitely background elements that I they were like CGI in the sky in and stuff like there was some of that like atmospheric CGI but if this movie feels very Tactical for a lot of it yeah I think that a lot of CGI tactical tactile a lot of the CGI like the full CGI were all like imaginative because they were like either her stories or like her imic yeah that's true yeah I I feel a little bit opposite of you Adam in that I really like the stage show and I did feel like some of the CGI kind of ruined it for me

27:56 um specifically in my favorite songs and I think maybe it was because you know you're like more precious about things you really like but like naughty it like was really fun until she's like on the roof and then she's doing a handstand and I was like what like what this it's a thing of you're like this doesn't need this like cute little ornamentation like it's good it's just good just don't don't feel like you need to like entertain me so hard and then the place where I really like genuinely got upset was in when I grow up so I think the thing you have to understand about the stage show is because the the big problem of having a show that's children is that child actors can only do so much talent-wise right like there are some children who are preder naturally good

28:41 at performing and you know that they're great but like they're still good for children they are not fully trained on a curve yes um so the way that they do that in the stage show is that Matilda is a child and there are child actors that play the other like kindergarteners but there are adults who play the like older kids in the school and so so like this the song where they get introduced to the school is like done by the adults trying to scare the scare them as older kids right and so when I grow up has the kids and adult like the kids are singing and then the adults come in and then they kind of do this like choreography where they swing and they kind of go back and forth and so this device that you're thinking of as just oh it's a necessity for the talent level to be

29:26 there for there to be adult in these school uniforms transforms in the song into like a metaphorical thing of you're seeing the adult singing about one day when I'm older I'll be strong enough to carry these loads we like you're crying as an adult because you understand that the real meaning is like you know as an adult you still don't feel like you're you're fully grown up yet you you you aren't you still are afraid of things you still it can be hard to carry your loads like you never really get to that place but like you have to try to be strong for the kids so that they can feel safe right right and so to me it is such a song that's like powerful because it's quiet and so when it transformed it started and I started to get emotional as the kids were like they were like coming home from school with their

30:12 parents and it was so cute and then it was like now they're like in their little fantasies of how cool it'll be to be Superstars and they're growing up and I was like this is not what this song is about at all the tears got absorbed back into the eyes right back into my eyes so look maybe maybe one of the songs that like I get so emotional for that I wouldn't ever like I wouldn't be happy with any adaptation of it but I felt like that was the one place where I was like no you actually ruined this with movie Magic I'm really upset that you did it this way I did like I was trying to decide if I liked the seeing their parents and then into the fantasy because I was like I guess that's kind of cool cuz it's like linking some of the things that they were bringing up just like their personalities but then yeah it ended up just being I I wish it was more like

31:00 because it was directly after like one of the first trunch Bowl scenes where it's like she's really down putting them down as like you're nothing you're pathetic your kids or whatever that I wish it was like how you described it like them swinging like I wish it was more directly like linked or connected yeah cuz I was like I don't know if I like seeing their parents because they're like purposfully not showing their faces but you know that those are their parents uh can I ask a question so in Matilda the book she's five years years old does it did it feel like they're kindergarteners she was five no she's not five no I no the girl who plays her is 12 did it feel like they were too I understand that also Mara Wilson in the 1996 version is not five but she's not a queen either I want

31:46 to say she's like seven like it she feel still feels like she's like in like first second gr yeah like 12 or maybe 13 there's something about I oh God I don't like I really don't like saying this I did not love this performance of that of the golden Play Matilda yeah um and I can't really figure out why cuz she kind of does everything that she's supposed to like there's not there's not really like anything bad about the performance but so I'm wondering if it's just like because she felt older like there's something about if if mati Matilda being so young makes it feel like part of the the hugeness of the like villain and the hugeness of the

32:31 school the hugeness of the magic is like you're so young that everything feels big because it's your first time experiencing anything like you'll create villains in your mind of like people you know simply because they told you you couldn't have desert that day like it's like that's how young you are but like because she was like just old enough that I was like I'm not I'm not saying that I I didn't understand the movie or anything but it was more just like because it's so the re we were in a real world we were in a real place we were in a real school and it was so Larger than Life that I was like should I there was almost like because she was old enough that I was like should I be worried I I it's I guess it's this is obviously just child abuse if there if this is literally what's happening in this something about

33:16 if it's kids then you're like like this I don't know I mean like yes she like swings the girl in the pigtails it's a very famous scene in every version of Milda like it's huge it's great but something about if she was younger than it you could chalk it up to if your kid came home and said like our head mistress sung a Girl by her pigtails and like threw her into the yard next door and they were five years old you'd be like sure absolutely whereas like if a 12-year-old came home and said parents now would be writing you an email saying my child told me this happened and that is verbatim the truth and I need you to explain this what happened um uh I wasn't thinking about it at the time but I do feel like you're right I think that you in the book and in the in not original movie the '90s movie The 9s yeah you understand that it is a

34:04 childlike interpretation of what's happening now that doesn't mean that Trunchbull is a good teacher actually just fully misunderstanding but it is that like the extremity of what's happening is part of like a child fantasy version yes of what's going on um so which I think is like one of the doll qualities yes that he that makes his book so interesting to read is you really do get transported back to being like 6 years old and being like everything being so massive yeah so it's like I mean it's like yeah it's part of his strong suit of his writing for sure yeah I do think so maybe now this is maybe I should say it could have been more CGI like it's I'm giving like conflicting

34:51 feedback like but also like I need this to be more fantasy which I get is like a little because there is a lot of fantasy there's a lot of fantasy but there's no CG I mean like I hate to be the person that's going to do this conversation because it's so tired but like there's no CGI in the 1996 version yeah right but you and I understand that I watch it as a child I have not seen it as an adult so there I'm sure I'm going to have nostalgic lens of this film anyway but like it CGI isn't always the answer like I do wish in this movie there were more practical effects like the scene of Matilda like doing all the mag like all the telekinesis by herself in her house and having fun like yeah it's not in the book it's a complete departure from the book blah blah blah blah blah I understand but like that's like the fun

35:38 thing that you if you had that power you'd want to do as a kid yeah and I kept like waiting for the moment where like this Matilda had fun and I just feel like she kept I'm a champion for the rights of the working children and I was like and that's great and that's great nor it is a little the whole musical is a little bit serious I will definitely give you that I will say with the like the performance of this child this girl does like a little bit like a kid that I work with I work who is like very smart and gets herself into trouble so it was like screwing me up a little bit um uh but I think I think you're right I mean like like I said I love the song Naughty it makes me get all ver clumped and I like listening to it when I need a little motivation but like they might

36:24 have leaned in the writing a little bit to much into the like like she is so it it gets very like political and she is so like like nothing she does is ever actually wrong like I feel like Matilda could like actually mess up too it's it's only she is only the oppressed and and and trench is only the oppressor and like again like I'm not asking for trench to be like a complexe or something multi dimensional character like absolutely but like I feel like a more interest ing tack would be also like Matilda is mostly in the right but maybe there's one time where she takes a little too far and she has to learn to re in her power like yeah or or yeah or just make the stakes a little bit

37:10 smaller um I also don't know with the CGI if it's I I know when I watched the again Junior version so I might have been missing some stuff but like I was surprised how long it took to get to the telek say telek cansis telekinesis in the show and yeah and I think actually it does take a long time in the '90s movie too it's just the thing of when you're a kid you just remember the big set pieces remember the set pieces yeah um you know like I think all of airbud is about like a dog playing basketball but actually he like doesn't do that until the yeah exactly um so I I don't know if they also felt like they needed to do more CGI because they were like people are coming into this expecting it to be all magic and they're going to be disappointed if it literally takes you know an hour and 45

37:56 minutes before there's any magic in it but I think Adam I like your idea a lot of like it could be magic but like magic we know isn't literal magic and then make the telekinesis really big so we're like oh my gosh now the metaphorical magic is bleeding into the real world I think that's really the direction you want to take it like I I I love the she she solves the math equation on the chalkboard I love that it's like it's so easy to do there's literally no magic I just love the things that are like she's so smart like explain how smart she is her being like these are all the books I read is less interesting to me her being a person who can tell a story is really not interesting to me the movie and I

38:43 think I have no doubt that this works so well on stage because stage is more inherently a storytelling medium than a film where I you can't have her just say it so you're going to like end up showing it but like what you can dream up from Matilda telling the story is better than what you're going to show me verba of the story like and I understand that it has to that you have to tie it back into Miss honey and trunch bow and everything and you have to like learn it but I don't it it like slows this movie it you could cut that whole thing and you would cut 30 minutes off the stone yeah it okay it in the junior versions that I watched it was excruciating

39:28 because like they don't have the budget to like because Junior shows don't have the budget to like actually put trapes on stage or anything right so like is mostly just like doing you know ballet positions with their arms or whatever and and anything that's like one character having to tell another character like that's so interesting the thing you're telling me when it's like not that compelling to watch is like it it brings it down a lot yeah and I feel like the benefit the movie has again is like they have the budget to like she's doing this trick with the dynamite and her hair and whatever and like we get to see all of those things what I would have done if you want to keep that whole plot line is just have Matilda tell it through voiceover so like it's just we're like just in her mind and we don't have to

40:14 see I I feel like what slowed it down was the watching her tell the librarian now I love the librarian I'm G to forget her name the woman who plays her is a stand comedian yes um her last name is she goes by V CU her she has a very long uh last name uh cindu v um she is hilarious I've seen a lot of like her clips on YouTube and stuff like that so like I did love her being in the movie but every time that she's like oh Matilda you're just so good at telling the story I'm like she's fine at telling the story but like it's not I've seen better storytelling you know yeah so um I think it would be fun to keep the

41:00 plot but just have Matilda telling telling us over voice over or some something that was like we don't need the plot of her being good at telling stories it's a little it's a little bit the thing of you watch a movie and it's a the in the movie there's a band and it's supposed to be like this is the greatest band of all time but you never hear them play a song because then you can just be like I believe they have the they're the greatest band of all time the minute you're like you're the greatest story tell but I'm it as audience like I don't know if agree with thatment but like that's why the math equs like I don't know anything like you solving I I fully believe yeah I don't I don't know that looks impressive I'll just believe that it's impressive exactly I think it's also nice that Matilda is a very

41:45 internal character I think is one of the things that in like the book I it's I read the book but a long time ago but like I feel like let her magic I think part probably part of what is compelling to lot people about the story is if you were a shy kid you relate a lot to Matilda and so letting her tell the story in her head letting her be this smart but it comes out in these little moments would both help with the this is all a fantasy of how she sees things in her little brain and also would take a little more pressure off of the actress too and would let the movie do more of the that heavy lifting for her instead of I feel like there's a lot you're asking out of your young performer yeah this where she has to like be not just smart but also like compelling and you

42:33 know capable of like inspiring this whole Revolution with the kids and like yeah there's one more critique that I The more I've thought about this movie since we watched the last night that I um am G to say and that's for a movie a story really that espouses the ideal of like kind of like the messiness of children this is a very polished film like it's like a little almost too clean to me where like there's nothing out of place and I do like the that kind of like aesthetic it kind of reminds me of like it has a little bit of like that Edward Scissor Hands kind of like tracked house energy of like the

43:19 suburbs are all the same so I I I understand that a little Tim Burton of it too there's a little Tim Burton for sure we're living in that energy for sure but but I think like I just wish I felt like um like there was like a little bit more teeth I think to the movie or something just like I yeah I think that like grit gritty gritty not not necessarily gritty but like I was never it's so weird because now I feel like I'm I'm I'm saying the opposite of what I was saying earlier but like I felt like I was never worried because it was like and didn't I don't want to worry about them but I want a little bit of like roughness to some extent or just like a little messiness like I want messy unpolished yeah even

44:06 though I know they like go through the mud and they do the whole thing and blah blah blah but it's not even like a literal cleanness it's more just like the film style itself is so like presented perfectly like every shot is composed kind of immaculately that I wish it had been like a little bit more I wonder is it I mean they Netflix didn't make it right they just distributed it they moments that it felt like I was watching like a jingle jangle like a it's like not that it's over produced or like overdrawn but it feels like I'm looking at like a like a like a model like world you know what I mean like almost like a dollhouse almost there's something about those those very iconic R doll illustrations too that are

44:53 like is always like crazy something about that that like I don't think I in all of the movies that we've seen that are like based on a roll doll property I think only maybe the witch the original witches from the 90s like that might be the one that's closest to kind of getting that a little bit like a child made this energy just like and there's like a Darkness to his work too that I think people usually don't Embrace in film versions yeah because they don't I mean because that I think that's what they think is going to turn families off but like yeah I mean the endure I don't know it's it's yeah there is a really brilliant essay by finegan Kirk called the taboo of sadness

45:39 that's about how Theater For Young audiences the only thing the ultimate thing that you can't do is have real sadness in your story that there's like a real fear of portraying things on stage and I don't recall if this is something he it's really beautifully written and now I can't remember if this is something he says explicitly or if it's something I just took away from it I think that there's a lot of there's a lot of power in knowing that you're going to watch it with your kid yeah so there's stuff that people will put in children's books because you're not going to be literally sitting next to them while they consume it but if you have to sit next to them in a theater and see them going through real emotions that scares

46:24 parents um and and yeah I don't think that this film and I think the stage show also is not really like it's not really going to like real darkness and sadness I even wonder though there's that conversation that I think like Millennials gen xers I'm sure now Zoomers have started to have too where it's like I remember watching this thing from my childhood and it like quote unquote traumatized me but like all you're referring to is something spooky from a a kids's movie that is pointedly supposed to make you feel spooky it's more just like it's it's a new emotion that you're having as a child so it's going to imprint in a specific way for your brain but like like everyone talks

47:10 about how like well I guess not everybody because I'm sure people don't watch anymore but like when people used to watch Bambi as a kid and then being like Bambi is like a horrifying movie but like that's like kind of the beauty of Bambi is that it it feels comfortable enough to let kids have that experience but like the movie doesn't end with her dying it's about him start it yeah it starts with it it's like the first third of the film and then it's the rest is like how he goes past that and like grows up yeah that's all yeah I mean I don't know are people taking that really literally or do we just I think there's always been a desire to sanitize things for children and some of that is appropriate right I don't I don't think like from birth you should be confronted with the worst of the world but like uh I do

47:55 think that that we tend to default towards overprotectiveness and uh something that I have always said about kids theater is like now and let me say this is not kids theater it's a it's a familyfriendly musical I don't I wouldn't put this in the category of T necessarily where like the children are the primary audience um but you especially in the US you are often at the um you're held hostage by the most conservative parent there um especially when it comes to like what can you put on in a school right um the person who has the most protectionist mindset is the one who will complain the loudest yeah about whatever is on stage um again I I don't

48:43 want to like keep too much of this onto the stage show I think that I really like it I think Tim I really like Tim menchin I like his other stuff outside of musical theater I like a like witty word heavy lyric type of show I s time I like L man Miranda like that's my kind of jam personally um but I I wonder how much even there might have been some grit and darkness in the stage show that even got further sort of cleaned up cleaned up for the movie RJ thoughts on Tim mention I mean yeah I I also am a fan of like wordy it did a little it got a little too wordy for me sometimes but I think it was a combination of like I'm

49:29 looking it was not meeting like the words just kind of felt like they were just saying what was happening already that I was seeing visually so maybe that's more like the directing of like it's not showing me something that compliments the words that I'm hearing sometimes it felt like I was watching like just visual L literal translations I mean I agree to some exent I think there's a lot of it because I think he does a good job of writing lyrics as children say things yes like kids learning all these words so they're like just saying them to like Express how they feel yeah so I think he's very good at that like it feels like children in that way but like the the wordiness of sonheim that I like is like the word play that only

50:14 adults would ever be able to come up with in that regard so I think sometimes I was like well it's a little I mean fun pedestrian Thrilla and Manila with a queen named um arj can you give an example of a a musical number that you felt like was just like showing you what you already knew um let me look at this last yeah it's up it's right [Music] there I mean I wasn't a big fan of the trench bow songs but I also didn't know what H obviously like how do you make a v Like a Villain song um where it's like you're the goal of the song is to show like how scary they are right yeah um but I like the

51:02 smell of rebellion was the one where I was like I'm seeing these kids rock through the mud and like she just keeps going on that like I'm going to squash the Rebellion off of their bodies that I'm like yeah I got it I yeah yeah there was a little too much information from Trull about like I was like I think we get your worldview it's been articulated many times it's pretty simple it's very clear um it's called crunch them like we got it from the moment we walked in thank you so much the small details that I really liked um that kids are maggots as their school motto but in Latin I thought that was I was clever um the songs that I did like though I really liked um I really like yeah school song Miss honey song oh

51:47 we're gonna have to have a full conversation about H own I mean Miss honey could be one of the one of truly the best like literary characters I mean I just just yeah just all her iterations I do want to say look she real Sam wise I I think the performance was great but again maybe with the misremembering something from your childhood but the cottage I know her Cottage is so iconic and this one just did not quite hit in the same way the cottage in that 90s movie was like that's how I I would love to live in that Cottage we all wanted to live in that Cottage we all it didn't matter you could have had the best parents in the world you still want to miss honey to adopt you and let you live but I feel like as a kid I didn't realize that she was broke and I think

52:35 like in this one it's kind of really do yeah we don't really we don't get that much backstory I feel like in the 90s version no we don't get the whole thing with her par like is trable might still be rightt yeah you learned that right at the end yeah like right before the end she tells I don't know I feel like we don't it's like we didn't really need more information about Miss honey like she's the perfect kindergarten teacher that's all you need to know about her really she's like the ideal teach like she's the people who should be teaching yeah yeah but I do look okay let's okay we have talked about 67 songs and played none of them fix it and post let me let me uh let's do only because RJ just brought it

53:20 up we'll do school song which is a song that as someone who had never seen uh the show I was pleasantly surp this is where I'm this is where like the smartness ofc lyrics absolutely so fun yes the alphabet specifically where we were like okay I kind of want to see this play out because this is really smart so we're going to start learning oh you'll start learning all right great I already know the alphabet you don't know the alphabet until we learn the alphabet you think you're able to survive by dismiss by being a prince or a princess you will soon see there's no escaping tragedy even if you put in of effort you

54:08 just waste the energy cuz your life as you know it is ancient history I have suffered in this jail I've been trapped inside this cage for ages this living L but if I Tred I can remember right before my life had ended before my happy days were over before I first heard the peing all the [Music] B [Music] you I got to shout out them using asked with the British accent for r

54:53 as um that's song is so fun I was like I was like because I gotta be honest miracle I was like sure it's an opener we're doing a Busby Berkeley moment I think I think Miracle is really cute I think it sets a really fun tone for the musical I think that it is it's a it's a show about how children are viewed by adults and I think starting with this like satirical song about how parents think they're a little too cute but then we go to the school where like okay but we don't mean that like they need to be crushed in their Spirit or whatever like I think it's a really it's not a amusing song I wouldn't like listen to it on a playlist

55:39 of song musical theater you know bangers but like I think it's a perfect opener for a musical yeah and then [Music] naughty I did not have the same um enjoyment of naughty that you that you did Molly unfortunately so then we got to school song I was like oh all right like I'm okay okay here we go the problem is like she she repres naughty like three times in the first like 45 minutes of this movie and I was like sweetheart you have not earned this honey I got to be real with you miss honey she earned it for [Music] me's do you just have to BR and bear it if you always take it on the chin and

56:24 wear it nothing will change even if you're little you can do well lot you must let a little thing like little stop you if you surround and let them get on top you might as well be saying you think that it's okay and that's not right and if it's not right you have to put it right let's talk about Miss honey miss honey miss Miss honey miss honey honey honey honey I think Miss honey is a hard character to pull off because she is and maybe this

57:10 is why Matilda has to be a little bit more extroverted because honey is also so pulled into herself that if Matilda was also very in her head that would be a lot of introverted characters for musical um she's so gentle yesh and then you have to like sing singing in a compelling way while also being gentle is very hard yes and I in all the stage shows I've watched I've assumed that punting was kind of boring because it was a child playing her oh right you're watching the children Junior they're all children um I thought Shan Lynch obviously was a lot better than any of the children that I had watched and obviously High Praise I mean obviously has actual vocal Talent behind it yeah I felt like the wonderful vocals I was

57:55 very shocked I felt like the songs were holding her back from being able to actually harness that in some did you feel like the songs were too like it showed off too much that it like do this what am I saying were they too ballady were they too like okay too ballady too ballady and asking her to like sing in a quiet voice I feel like a lot of the [Music] time yeah cuz like it should be like the singing is a is a is an Escape right for a character to like that like if if the ballad was more the daughter of the escapologist yeah yeah it all comes back

58:41 like escapologist I didn't know what to expect what her song was going to be I was like is it going to be like so long that I didn't know if she was going to get yeah me too I was like are they not going to ever sing I thought cuz I was like is it going to be very torch songy where it's like I someday I'll be able to sing but then it's like but we already get those songs from Matilda because Matilda's the main character of like yeah I'm gonna like rise above or whatever so I really wasn't expecting she's kind of more of the anural really like she's just trying she's like the the circumstances just like are against her and she just needs to like and she falls in love love with a child um yeah I mean I did like her performance but yeah I I I see where you're coming out with the songs but I also by the time that it got

59:28 to the second half of the movie and she started singing I was like okay yeah look she has the right Vibes to be Miss honey I do think I think that she seems like a nurturing caring figure you got to have big eyes to play Miss honey I mean that's I think that's got to be in the cast yeah you got to look like an Hine yeah but I think that the musical struggles with how to bring Miss honey into a musical realm and maybe she should have been a non- singing role although I love her being on when I grow up I think that that again like I said like I think that song on stage tells a whole story about being an adult that's not really ready to be a grownup and then you see how it's leading into Miss honey is the top of that yeah well I think that could be interesting like if all the kids sound like these amazing

1:00:14 Broadway singers and Miss honey sounds like a child like unaware of her voice you know like a classic kind of 70s musical performer where it's not like you just are an actress who happens to like sing sing but like you aren't a singer per se I feel like you guys should pull up uh I think it was the Tony's or it was like the Tony's or what's the British version of the Tony's the Olivia the Olivia Matilda when I grow up oh when I grow up when I grow up I will be brave enough to fight the creatures that you have to fight beneath the bed each night to be a

1:01:01 [Music] growner and when I grow up when I grow up when I grow up I will be smart enough to answer all the questions that you need to know the answers to before you're grown up [Music] heart treats every [Music] day [Music] mon when the sun comes up and lying in the Sun and I

1:01:48 [Music] my story sometimes you have to be [Music] aght I mean okay so I think that what that what I think the song tells us is like obviously you're not gonna have a child who comes in with like a crazy vocal performance in comparison to a grown adult but like honey does still even though you can tell she's a trained singer it's it's a very quiet Meek vocal performance and we're learning that and we see Honey's path is I have to learn how to be a grownup and Matilda's path is like got this gumption within me I've got this setting things right thing and like I'm going to go out there and be the big Brave hero and honey has the more gentle story right and so I

1:02:37 think I think that that's great to have that dramatic choice of like honey has this kind of childlike voice but then you can't give her her own whole song because that we've we've already been subjected to a lot of child singing and they are great for being children but like like we're hungry for a grownup vocal performance yes that is true there's a lot of the I feel that the music doesn't let no matter how good of a performer Miss honey is she can't really like really get out there with the voice and so yeah I think that that is well I love the cleverness of the songs I I wish that they had somehow found a dramatically resonant way for

1:03:23 there to be like a full 11:00 number by an adult that's in here shaking it up sonically a little bit for us well like it could have been cool like that that moment where she's like she takes her keys and it's like I own the school now like even if it's just a little tag like a little two minute and a half tag a repre of when I grow up but like her belting It Up full Nicole Nico as Miss honey on the West End fully telling you absolutely rendition of when I grow up could I mean could be could be something so I'm gonna read this comment

1:04:09 so many of these songs are so good but are made better when you watch them in the context of the story which is a rare feat for a musical what Mama that is a music you talking about do you mean rare feet usually the problem is that it sounds bad outs inside of the context of the musical that's usually the issue somebody somebody is uh has taken issue with the integr 92 92 people liked that comment by the way wonderful pictures through this window I can watch the seasons change by this lamp I can read and I am set free

1:04:56 when it's cold outside I feel no fear even in the winter storms I am M by a smooth stubborn fire and there is nowhere I would rather [Music] be it isn't much but it is enough for me um I think this is a great performance genuinely by Lana Lynch I was not anticipating first of all I didn't even know she was in it so when she showed up on screen I was like oh I was like surprised I only know her as Monica Rambo and also she had just come

1:05:42 off of um that 007 movie where she was like G to be the next7 that's right no time to die is that what it is I think I saw the one that she was in but I don't remember what it was called it's one of those I'm not a big Bond Bond Head call I'm not a bonded babe um but yeah I think she's like really good in this movie I mean it's such like a if you can nail that just like she's so it's not just sweet like you it's a little sweet and scared and I think that's like it's kind of like perfectly done in this movie and anytime she like hugs M like when Matilda hugs her for the first time and they kind of like connect it's it's you it's just as

1:06:30 as a kid also sorry okay I'll do it as a queer kid okay English teachers were our Salvation there is like there were those teachers who it did feel like they saw us for us and not like just as another kid yeah um and so it like flashed it like always flash it honey that per like any either performance it's it's so evoc and I think it works a lot in the final number the holding my hand number oh tot the vocals and the music and all of that cuz it ultimately is I know I like made a joke about it before but like it is kind of a love story between honey and Matilda in the sense of like finding parent child together right and and them being it still feels like she's gonna be the grown-up it's not like a

1:07:16 parentification thing but that like honey needed Matilda's rebelliousness and Matilda needed Honey's nurturing and love and someone she could rely on in that way and so that they're like a perfect match for that reason and I think it all clicks very well in that final number yeah totally I agree I do also like the kind of going back in the Matilda telling honey story like she thought she was just imagining a story but it was actually like telling her truth I liked that whenever they would go back to the flashbacks of the story that like when Matilda was telling it first it she was the kid she was the and then when shees the connection that it's honey story like it's a young Miss

1:08:04 honey now this we would be fools if we were to not talk about this Emma Thompson performance if we were to go this entire conversation and not mention this is she not a Dame that's crazy no she's not a Dame what do you think she asked not to become one I feel like that's the only explanation yeah I have no idea I know some people have feelings about the like political of being like order of the British Empire and stuff so that's true she would technically be like a knight of like the culture Bas yeah dbe it's dbe Knight Commander or Dame commander of the most excellent order of the British Empire yeah she's definitely in she's in the OB yes oh okay oh okay I would think then I would think it would

1:08:50 be Dame Emma right Dame commander of the most excellent order I mean look British titles are insane I'm sorry we we broke off in your country because we couldn't handle all of this do it but I would think she's a Dame uh she's she's a Dame she's my Dame baby hey there's nothing like a d nothing okay Emma Emma Emma this performance is so insane yeah in like the best way I know she the woman will for a person who is not normally I think someone people think of as like character actress first like generally I don't think she's one of the the people that people think of when they they think of that I would say

1:09:35 comedic but not character yes but she

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