Sailor Moon Retrospective | Chatty AF

0:00 [Music] thank you hello and welcome to chatty AF the anime feminist podcast and the first of our series of retrospectives on Sailor Moon the incredibly influential and beloved Shojo magical girl series I'm Bry Kaiser I'm an editor and contributor at anime feminist you can also find me on Twitter where I do all kinds of stuff at writer vry or at trashpod where I do another podcast would you guys like to introduce yourselves yeah

0:46 find all of my writing on my anime Blog the Jose next door and you can hang out with me on Twitter at Jose next door hi I'm Anne Lee I'm the creator of shojopower.com where I talk about Sailor Moon through a feminist lens and more you can find me at Shoujo power on Twitter and I'm a contributor to anime feminist yeah thanks so much for for joining us today you're definitely the person who talks about Sailor Moon I think you were the first person we thought of and we were like let's do some let's do some retrospectives who could we get on as a guest it was like oh and yeah it's got a man it's on her Twitter picture and everything yeah yeah no like I am totally obsessed uh I started Studio power.com about five

1:32 years ago and I just knew that like there'd just be tons of stuff to talk about with with Sailor Moon like not all there's like so many uh different media properties with Sailor Moon from like the manga the live action show the anime the reboot and uh just uh so I'm five years I'm still I'm still here talking about it so there's a lot of material there which is why we kind of had to parcel these you know it's too long for our traditional watch along format but we couldn't just do the whole franchise in one podcast that would be an unfair nightmare yeah exactly um yeah the the series ran uh the manga began in 1991 and ran until 1997 and the anime was basically parallel for most of it it started in 1992 and ended in 1997.

2:19 and today we are only going to be talking about the first 46 episodes uh the the classic Sailor Moon anime which was directed by janichi Sato who went on to uh direct Princess Tutu uh prettyar uh he's currently the series director for hug toe Precure which a lot of people seem to be very into and say is good so thumbs up uh ecohara who is you know maybe most famously associated with the anime didn't actually come in until r as a co-series director so he directed some episodes gotcha right he directed the very excellent Rhett Butler episode didn't he did he I take that I could don't quote anyone on that folks um I'm not 100 sure

3:05 okay uh do not quote me but I seem to that was a good episode is the thing we're we're talking about it absolutely so I kind of wanted to start on this one since it's our first with our personal experiences of you know how we each got into the series and did you want to go first sure so I guess I got into Sailor Moon right when it started to air in America so that would have been like September of 1995. uh I was about 11 years old at the time and I was like totally into like Greek mythology astronomy and like one early morning before school I was like channel surfing and like there was this girl named

3:51 Sailor Mercury who was you know throwing bubbles so uh I was just like this is my jam and like it's been like you know I've been obsessed ever since it's adorable yeah I was pretty young too I I remember you know being in in hotel rooms and trying really hard to catch it I think it was in reruns uh early morning reruns of the original Saban version and I was like five uh but uh my really clear memory is is for some is like making a blanket fort around the TV when I was like six years old so I could watch black lady episodes of all things and I was super into the uh you know tried as religiously as I could to catch

4:36 the the Clover Run on Toonami when it got into s and such yeah like I used to like go into my basement and watch it on our basement TV like I don't know what was wrong like I think it was like my little secret or I was slightly embarrassed about watching it because I was 11 years old at the time so maybe like I wasn't supposed to be watching cartoons but uh I had actually with that to make the bus so my dad was really weirded out he was like why why is my 11 year old child waking up early to watch TV yeah it was really it was really hard to catch my experience is I think extremely different from most Sailor Moon fans and I will consider myself a Sailor Moon fan I like the series a lot

5:21 um so when I was younger I got into Pokemon and then kind of started watching Toonami stuff and Sailor Moon aired during the hour after school when I was doing extracurriculars so I didn't really get into it but I had a couple of friends who were big into it and so I tried to watch it but by the time I tried to watch the dub I had been existing on the internet and I knew that they had edited it and censored a bunch of stuff and the Very I don't know I will always remember this the very first episode I caught was was the one where like me too comes out of the bath in like a bath towel and is like leaning down very suggestively next to Haruka and they're having like a moment between each other and the whole time I'm like these aren't cousins shut up Sailor Moon these aren't cousins um and it was one of those things where I was like uh I don't want to watch this

6:07 dubbed I'll just wait until the sub is readily available because at that point it felt like it was gonna happen pretty quick well it didn't it didn't happen for like 10 years so I never I didn't get into Sailor Moon as a kid um I and then when so when I was graduating from grad school I knew I wanted to start writing about anime like doing a Blog and right as I was graduating viz announced that they were going to be re-releasing Sailor Moon uncut on Hulu two episodes a week and I was like oh crap there's a good first blog project I've always wanted to watch that show um so I started watching it and doing uh like recap slash commentaries about uh the episodes as they aired and so I did that for two years solid um because there's a lot of episodes of Sailor Moon and I I got really into it and I had a

6:54 really good time with it and I'm watching it as you know like a 26 27 year old and um so again very different experience I think from a lot of folks but um it was great I had a really good time so I imagine people will find that heartening you know who haven't watched it since it's one that I think is a hard sell for you don't if you if you're not already in anime as their first anime um I would I think you could still give it to a kid is their first anime or a pre-teen um with a little bit of understanding about like it was made in the 90s so there's a couple of things that aren't great um although it ages remarkably well which I'm sure we'll talk about today as well but like if you're uh if you're a long you know if you've been an anime fan for a while and Sailor Moon is like yeah watch it like I think you'll still get a lot out of it um because again it is it is surprisingly it holds up surprisingly

7:41 well I think um and that was actually how Ryan I met so extra extra bonus was meeting through the Sailorman reviews yeah yeah because you had just started doing the Zoe side episodes and I was just always always thirsty for people to talk about my boy the the only sad thing I'm sad for you is that you missed out on the um do you remember that ring of episode or that ring of websites in the 90s that was like the you know X anime uncensored um sites where they would like catalog the dub and then list like time codes and all of the things that had been changed or cut I followed those websites like religiously especially for for Sailor Moon and uh Cardcaptor Sakura we had we had something similar to that in the Pokemon franchise so I feel you yes I remember that song that was that was

8:27 my fandom Pokemon was very much my thing when I was younger but you're never too late to become a moon tonight so I even went and saw the the movies on the big screen these past few weeks with a couple of friends who have been fans since they were kids and so the three of us got together and it was really fun definitely think we'll have to make some time to talk about the movies when we get to their respective Seasons yeah for sure oh and as a a final uh you know even if you've been out of anime for a while I I watched this um my most recent re-watch of this season was uh with my wife who likes anime but is mostly a fan of the older stuff and is watching uh was watching Sailor Moon for the first time and she had a real good time too we watched the new dub which is pretty good honestly yeah yeah it's a definitely different experience like you have an

9:14 English-speaking you know cast but like the old uh original music so it definitely gives this like retro feel I feel about watching it yeah yeah have either of you watched the uh the redub I have not no I I went ahead and I was I watched the viz dub because uh I bought all of the releases so I was like well I I need to like actually watch it so yeah no it's if you like dubs at all honestly I'd recommend it obviously it's not the same as the original Japanese cast who you know inevitably when you get performers who have lived in these roles for that long it's going to be something special but but it's good which I think is a good experience a good way to lead into talking about ice the main characters where you know I

10:03 I think everybody knows the premise of this show but I thought it might be interesting to talk about sort of where the characters are not for the whole franchise but just in this first season and you know if you'd forgotten stuff about um about oh yeah this doesn't happen till later or you know gosh this character had real was established really strongly out right off the bat or some really good character episodes that you liked that kind of stuff I think if I had watched it as a kid I would have just hated usagi um and that's not an I think that's more a knock on me than it is on usagi is I just didn't have patience for you know for like kind of imperfect heroines like

10:49 I liked I liked your sort of out of the box badasses growing up um and usagi is not that um she kind of gets thrown into this role and she's a bit of a crybaby and she's um and it takes a while to kind of understand her her good points I think but watching it as an adult I had a lot more sympathy for her because I'm like yeah I mean she's 14 and she's suddenly having to fight monsters and she's doing her best you know I had the same experience when we did the shigayugi watch along and that I have I have a lot more sympathy I think for for some of these um these these teen girl characters from the 90s who were sort of hapless and struggling early on and then sort of learn how to you know mature and take responsibility for their actions and and become Heroes and so uh that

11:34 that's kind of one thing that I'm about what the series is that I was able to you know you know usagi a little bit more credit than I think I would have growing up yeah she's definitely a character where there's this when you're little and kind of I think looking for wish fulfillment figures she can be very frustrating but but as an adult just oh oh this child is doing her best and she's trying to be a good friend oh yeah I uh when I was growing up I actually um I really like dosagi that she wasn't a perfect heroine and I think maybe that was because uh I was like the oldest kid in my family and I was the only girl kind of like usagi and and you know I just you know there was just like really high expectations for me and so like I

12:22 always kind of felt like I wasn't meeting people's expectations so like I really related that like she she was the superhero but she was also totally like a screw-up and she was scared and whatnot so I actually had friends they're like why do you like Sailor Moon like why don't you like Wonder Woman and like you know for me growing up like Wonder Woman was this like adult woman with like a perfect body with rolling like toned arms and like I didn't relate to that at all so uh even though I love you know I love Xena Warrior Princess Buffy and stuff like that but uh uh I loved how like usagi was this very silly comedic character yeah I feel like this retro retroactive need to apologize to osagi almost

13:09 because you know as a kid I went through that thing that I think a lot of afab trans people do were like you are aggressively anti-feminine things and you fall really hard into the not like other girls face because you're not a girl but but so I was just like I I very much loved Mako and Haruka later but I I was just I had no time for you know usagi who likes pink things and cute bunnies and wants to grow up and be a housewife and a I'm sorry soggy you're a good girl and I believe in you yeah I I had a similar experience as someone who was you know kind of kind of pushing back against a lot of those feminine expectations where like you said I didn't have a lot of patience for characters like that um it's hard for me to say who I probably would have uh linked up to as a kid I think Ami and

13:55 Makoto probably would have been my favorites um and Ami still is my favorite so some things don't change I uh yeah I mean I have a obviously I've always I've always liked the smart kids because I was the I was the the nerdy smart kid growing up and so anytime she defeats things with science um or empathy but then she also my favorite thing about Ami is that she also like struggles with her self-confidence despite the fact that she is so freaking awesome and everyone around her knows it and I I think that's again something that I really enjoyed about Sailor Moon watching it was the way because I think if usagi was the only character um was like you know she was the girl like is so often the case in a lot of uh TV series or pieces of fiction um I don't think I would

14:40 have his positive an opinion of her because she does slot into a lot of these kind of um traditional ideas about like you know what it is to be a girl or be feminine but because the cast has all these different personalities you've got you know Ami who's very intelligent wants to be a doctor you've got Rey who's you know a fire brand uh with a short temper who you know wants to be like just wants to do everything basically um Makoto who can both you know make adorable lunches and then also Judo flip you uh Venus who wants to be like a pop star and Venus is a very cool character who I feel like we're not really going to be able to dig into her Arc until later Seasons um but I think having all those different personalities you know was a good way of showing like there is more than one way to be a heroine absolutely and I really and the

15:29 fact that they all get along like you know I mean they squabble but at the end of the day they all really like each other so it wasn't there wasn't that sense of like not like other girls like you were talking about right because there were all these different kinds of girls and they could all be friends and work together to you know defeat evil and I think that's really really nice yeah the Friendship stories are so good like it it it's just heartwarming and heart melting and like the fact that they keep coming back to how much you know these girls like each other and support each other even when they don't really get what the other what you know what one of their friends is going through they still want to to be supportive and it's just nice and you know it's really funny going back and watching this um so like uh Rey starts dating mamaRoo and back in the day like I hated this I hated this you know terrible but going

16:16 back and watching the whole thing I never realized that nobody really knew that you know Ray liked mamaRoo so when it comes to the time when it's all revealed that mamaru and osagi are these like Dustin lovers nobody knows that Rey like liked him and she Rey's having a moment and the only person who really picks up on it is Makoto and there's just like these there's this really touching you know scene between them and I just like did not catch that when I was a kid and like I I kind of I love that storyline so much more now because it really shows them supporting one another and Rey you know kind of just coming to terms with like now they're destined to each other and I'm okay with that so

17:02 yeah I thought um I think I think the first season of Sailor Moon Builds on itself very well because I think there's a lot in that early early probably 24 22-ish episodes that's kind of a mess and then right around the part where uh good old Zoe site becomes kind of the main Baddie I think it really starts to click and figure out what it's doing and so like like you said like Ray dating mamaRoo in a way where mamaru seems confused yeah the fact he's not quite sure that they are dating or what's going on anytime you see them together he's like he has this look like I just went out to buy some eggs and now she's here what happened um but I think the way they the way they kind of resolve that where it doesn't like there's there's some early like love triangly type squabbling I think but then when it gets to the point where

17:47 you know they have to kind of come to charge with like these aren't just crushes this is kind of serious there's some really nice moments where Rey because I think there's an episode it's been a few years since I rewatched it I actually reread my recaps before doing this so I'd be uh you know fresher on the up episodes um but there's an episode where they like go up to a ski slope and usagi and Ray get like trapped in a cannon or something and they kind of have this Heart to Heart whereas like yeah I really did like him but I can see how that you two are meant for each other and that he's really important to you so I'm okay like I support this relationship and it's just a really nice um moment of kind of eschewing that idea of like you know uh Girls Gotta compete for the man it was like no our friendship is the more important thing so I'm perfectly willing to step aside for this yeah yeah Memorial's whole existence is very

18:35 I'm sorry I don't I don't like him I think he's Bland when he's not kind of a creep and basically the entire positive influence of his role in the plot is well I guess he makes these these nice girls that I like happy I'm glad that they got what they wanted first like 20 episodes like just a rap ing [ __ ] um and I don't think and again we can this is something we'll talk about in later in later podcast too I don't think they really figure out what to do with him until s Because by the end of the series I did like him but it took a while um at this point I I agree with you but I don't I didn't have much of a connection with mamaru Tuxedo Mask on the other hand I love

19:21 so much I feel like that um that one Sailor Moon Abridged joke is is completely ubiquitous now the the my work here is done but you didn't do anything it's true he's he's the Team cheerleader he comes in to tell them that they can do it and to believe in themselves and then he swoops out of the frame and he's usually posed to top something amazing sometimes he's driving a bus for no reason yeah um he's he's the best I Mama who's uh sorry was just meh tuxedo masks like just glorious levels of extra were a big selling point for me early in the series because I think they I think he's a good example of the creators not taking the show a hundred percent

20:07 seriously and I think a lot of the time when you're dealing with you know kind of kind of inherently like monster the week type stories I think having a sense of humor about your own presence your own uh premise is really important um so and I think the series strikes this really good balance of like when it cares about its characters like the things its characters are going through are important the like monster fights and some of the superhero type stuff is kind of silly and we're gonna have fun with that so you know here's here's a dude flinging roses and standing on top of tall structures and how did he get up there don't worry about it I think it's one of the very few instances where like a bunch of male creators got into a room and they were just like we don't really want to talk about the guy like if if we can talk about the least at least possible like that'd be great let's just

20:53 focus on the girls like I that's what like there's been some rumors saying that the director like really didn't like mamaRoo that's why he kind of got like pushed to the side a bit but uh I have heard that ikohara totally hated him so how's the igu hotter I wanted to kill him off like over and over again and they wouldn't let him that's that's the rumor again take that with a grain of salt but yeah I I have I have also heard that um which I you know I think it's again it's early on like they definitely wanted to make a show that was you know for girls to or I shouldn't say four girls because I think I can and should enjoy this show um and non-binary folks and everybody um it was you know Target demographic was you know preteen girls and I think

21:38 they and there was this focus on you know uh you two can be you know Heroes and awesome and you know run around saving the day and so I think that mamaRoo kind of gets slotted into that role that the female love interest often does in series where he's just kind of there uh to get kidnapped and stabbed a lot I think he only gets stabbed twice in this season but it's gonna keep happening and I I appreciate that gender role reversal like at this point I think if I was watching a show in 2018 where this was happening I would be kind of annoyed like I'd rather there be more equality between the two but because this was coming out in the 90s and feels like it is in some ways a response to you know uh Sentai stories and other kind of heroic stories that had come before it I sort of like that I like that role of reversal quite a bit yeah

22:24 me too yeah I also think it it helps mitigate the fact that we haven't talked about this and we definitely should monitor is in college yeah yeah sir you are a creep I just I don't even know why they did that like it's still to this day perplexes me like like in the manga he is a high schooler he is 17. and I just even then like if there was a 17 year old dating my 14 year old daughter I would probably have a problem with that but like what like a 22. at least they're both still teenagers in secondary school right I don't I just yeah I can't I I do I doff my cap to that one like self-aware moment the anime has where

23:09 matoki and Memorial are having a conversation and and you know uh the episode where Mako and asagi are both trying to get motoki's attention and he's like yeah I like them as is like my little sisters I think they're adorable what like what kind of creep adult would go after 14 year olds yeah yeah he says he says like he says like I'm not gonna date a junior high school student in this voice like why did I even have to Ryan gets very uncomfortable and I'm like you should you should very uncomfortable it's weird um it's but it's one of those things where for whatever and probably partly because it's an older series um and I also think because there's extenuating circumstances there's a whole reincarnated romance element to it and whatever um but I also think the fact that the series works very hard to

23:56 balance the power between the two of them like in real life there is no Universe where I would be okay with a 14 year old dating a 20 year old um but in the in the context of this Fantastical series mamaRoo is the one who is constantly getting like I said stabbed and kidnapped um and usagi is constantly having to save his ass so I think that it makes it easier for me to look at it and go well yeah this is a problem but um it didn't it kind of stopped bothering me pretty early in the series um I don't know if it was the same one anything cool I think it's helpful that it's not really remarked upon too much like I I think growing up I didn't even realize it he was a college student student because you don't even see him at College like he's just walking down the street like that's

24:42 about it you know like all he does is he walks in front of the arcade yeah he doesn't have any friends so just walking in front of the arcade yeah it it is one of those things that I can kind of tune out while I'm watching and stop thinking about it like in like in the abstract sense it definitely creeps me out but like you said the fact that it's an older series and and specifically I think the fact that it's such a non - it's such a small part of the 90s series honestly it's one of the things that majorly turned up me off of crystal is even though Crystal restores the fact that he's a high school student the just focus on it to the detriment of all all those good good friendships it just can't but I was like that's also a good point

25:28 it's not the BL end all of the series there's there's always more than one thing going on with usaki and it's usually like a friendship story and a romance story yeah so it's one of those things and I'm like well I don't care for this but the the the Confluence of how it's handled and how ancillary of a point it is is I can yeah whatever but and and like I I can't even throw too much shade because when I was a little kid I was like really emotionally caught up in the narrow and nephrite story I was gonna segue into that so good job like which is such a bad thing all over but it gave me a feeling in my heartbeat I think a lot of people feel the same way as you do yeah I uh so like I said I was rereading over my recaps and I had forgotten how surprisingly upset I was

26:15 at the end of that Arc um and it wasn't that I thought they were a good couple I didn't um I just I have a lot of sympathy for Naru in that I think that Arc does a really good job of showing like what it's like to have a crush on somebody you know you shouldn't because she does you know but she still likes him and so um how that relationship kind of kind of works out I'm also a sucker for a Redemption story and therefore it was so boring yeah he was so not my favorite if I if I hadn't been watching like jadeite had style he didn't have a personality but he had style with his schemes uh if I had not been recapping Sailor Moon I'm not sure I would have made it through the Netflix Oh yes which would have been a shame because there's so much good stuff that comes after them um so I'm over here just like begging

27:01 for him to die so Zoe site can take over and things can get fun again and then all of a sudden you get give me this like two episode Arc where he starts to develop like a heart and a personality and starts to give a crap about other people and then you murder him and I was very upset which surprised me I think that was the first time Sailorman like surprised me with an emotion which it would continue to do as I watched it yeah and I think you raised a good point is it like similarly to how I feel about Memorial and that I don't care about him but I am glad that this is a thing that makes usagi happy I think naru's story works because it's not really about nephrite it's about naru's emotional response to all of it yeah yeah as we all know the the best villain is so excited it is yes yes I have so many feelings about this [ __ ]

27:48 Lord boy tell us your feelings yes yes well like uh for those of you who are younger and may not know um suicide was was censored in the original 90s dub they gave him a female voice actress uh because no no nothing gay going on here don't worry about it but he he's also just the kind of character that I absolutely adore who's kind of shitty and you know selfish and and petulant and evil but but really pathetic the more you did like once you dig like even an inch under the surface with somebody they like one person they really really care about and the rest of the world can burn like that's that's

28:33 right where I live that is the nanami zone he's a really good character I I mean he's first of all he's super fun um his like he just does not like do you spend these you spend the first like 22 Episodes of the jadeite and nephrite like trying to hide their personalities and wearing all these disguise these like very transparent disguises and then Zoe's shot shows up and his like first episode he just like pops up in front of the Sailor she's like sup I'm so excited I'm fighting you now and I was like I love you you don't give a [ __ ] and it's amazing uh his relationship with Tuxedo Mask is incredible during his stretch of episodes um they are flirt fighting I'm pretty sure um they just they keep because they're fighting over those um oh God what are they called rainbow crystal seven

29:19 monsters Arc yes the rainbow crystals um and there's that whole seven monster shark is incredible like that it's just it's just episode after episode that is so good um so again I'm very glad I stuck I stuck it out through the nephrite uh epic um but their relationship is really fun his it's yeah every time he shows up like the two of them just snipe at each other and it's amazing um and then and then I love I this is and I I know we're gonna have a conversation about this so let's just have it now um there is something inherently problematic about having a villainous character who is who is gay and is the only character on the show thus far who is gay um but what the thing I mean one it was the 90s two the thing I really kind of enjoy about that though is the most humanizing characteristic for Zoe site

30:06 and kunzite is that they love each other like that is what humanizes them as characters yeah it's one of those things where like yes it's part of a long and problematic history of villainous gay characters but I don't tend to get mad at them because it it is their humanizing Factor it is what makes them likable and sympathetic to the audience which is in such contrast to basically everything at the time where the fact that they are gay or gay coded makes them spookier or scarier oh my God they might try to hit on the protagonist and like suicide is definitely flirting with Tuxedo Mask in an anger way but it's not in like a oh this is what makes you know it's not in a way that is making him uncomfortable like that exactly right so right like it's the entire framing of it is so very different and I'm gonna write a piece on this one of these days I swear to God

30:51 um but it's just so good and and it makes me so depressed that the fandom doesn't seem to care about this continuity in that relationship at all like it's just it's just uh she to know senshi as far as the eye can see and like five concentants always site fix and I'm just depressed oh that is upsetting yeah right because it is it's just like it's I I always get kind of bummed out by sailor Moon's tendency to like hero or Adora here are really sympathetic mini bosses and now they're all dead like all the way up until Super S but it's definitely like it's well written I I like couldn't say it's such a dick too is is another problem if you want to go into that

31:37 kunzite is the most metal of the Sailor I would agree um totally metal um all of his all of his spells all of his spells and things are like crushing darkness and I just imagined him growling all of it um and there's like lightning he poses with lightning behind him all the time um but again the thing that I think is kind of kind of fun about kunzite is that his sort of motivation for the second half of the series is after Barrel kill Zoe site and I sit on the floor and cry for a while uh I was so upset although although I was watching uh earlier this week uh said you know I TR I tried hard to save you and I'm just like Coons that you did not try hard enough like

32:25 insignificant attempts were made he said no wait don't stop uh uh right before barrel shot him in the chest um but then he'd missed directs his anger at the scouts and so like his motivation the entire second Arc is like I'm gonna get revenge on you for being the reason Zoe side's dead I'm like well actually it's your boss that's the reason but okay um but again it was it was that sort of humanizing factor of he's not just doing this because he's a bad guy who does evil things and I looked at like and to point out too like kunesite says I love you to zoysite like several times and I just I don't know I think that's pretty awesome because because you know coonside is like this like really tough stoic dude and he says I love you to zoicet several times the the new dub the viz redub also kind

33:11 of sweetened up their dialogue a little bit which I am fully in favor of yes um and on a meta level I I enjoy the kind of headcanon that's like the only reason the only possible explanation besides we need the series to go on for more episodes that um that kunzite goes from very very deadly and nearly kills all of um all of the senchy right off the bat too I don't know [ __ ] something with a princess school is that he just wants to die [Laughter] I could I could see that it's soggy in fact I think in their final fight with him she tries to heal him and he shouts he says something to the effect of like you will never make me cry out refresh just what all the other villains did so they actually have to like defeat him

33:57 defeat him um and and I think isn't this I think his like last line is like I'm coming to meet you Zoe site and I was like oh yeah somebody write that Fanfare there's [ __ ] no reincarnation thick fandom what the [ __ ] are you doing yeah come on guys get on the ball they're adorable yeah I'd like to this day I have a lot of feelings about them as you can tell again I was watching this at like you know the age of 26 27 however old I was and uh I was I could not again one there was another moment where I was like I could not believe how upset I was that this goofy villain on this cartoon uh had died and his boyfriend was sad I was like oh I hope you guys I hope you guys get reincarnated and everything works out

34:42 good it's good that's like the one thing like Norm on the whole I I honestly very much prefer the 90s anime to the manga and the other versions but the one thing I was always kind of bummed that didn't make it into the the 90s anime was the whole we were brainwashed element yeah feels like because they they work so because the direction works so hard to make them sympathetic well nephritin so I said not not Jade Jade I just has style yeah but but it like completely bypasses this one other element and just kind of implies that they were always sort of evil yeah it doesn't really dig into their uh backstories at the later seasons will do a better job I think of the sympathetic villains um but I think

35:28 Zoe satin kunzite are very much where that begins um and I I don't know what the uh and maybe you've done some research on this I don't know what the fan reaction was like in Japan um but I I would say they they definitely have were fairly popular over here it seems like so hmm I'm not really sure but I guess I would have to say about that I think uh the Revelation that they were uh you know endemians generals came pretty late in the game so maybe they just felt like they just didn't want to tackle that part by that time possibly because of the parallel run yeah yeah that makes sense that's true too since the two stories were coming out side by side um and they were and they were killing them

36:13 off faster fast um yeah yeah well they were killed off in the manga like Jedi is dispatched quite quickly uh each one of them are uh killed off one by one in the manga okay it's been ages since I read the since I read the August so I couldn't remember for sure there um but I know there's I know in the manga there's kind of a big reveal that they were like the four of them were perfectly paired up with the Sailor senchy and I do kind of appreciate I I very much actually appreciate that the 90s anime ignored that point I hate that because sorry I like that usagi's friends are are single and the focus on their story arc is friendship because I stories like that so I mean I think you could do some interesting interesting things with it but like no

37:02 version of Sailor Moon has really tackled it in an interesting way like and I was really hoping Crystal was gonna tackle it in a really interesting way and like yeah like it just went totally the opposite direction my memory of crystal is that they showed up we're like we were secretly your boyfriends and then like I think they just got exploded immediately like no but they come back on in a special [ __ ] I hate it I hate it so much um yeah we should probably not talk too much about Crystal because I don't want to rain on anybody's parade but uh we yeah we don't we don't think I'm not sure if I'm not sure anyone on this call

37:47 was a huge fan of it we can move on yeah so let us talk instead about um a small moment of Spotlight for Rhett Butler and the other very good monster of the Week episodes because like yeah I was seven monsters monsters our Rhett Butler shows up um kind of kind of zeroing in on that because I think that's when Sailor Moon really Finds Its stride and I also think that's because that's really the first time we see this idea of people getting people getting turned into monsters because of like it ties into like they have their own insecurities or issues that have to get worked out and so then the scouts show up and they don't just kill a monster they like make people better and and I think that continues from that point on

38:34 through the show just about where you you you consistently see them not just fighting monsters but like fighting people who are you know dealing with problems of their own and and in you know sort of this Grand kind of magical metaphysical sense and then the scouts come along and they and they sort of help them with those issues and I I really like that concept because I think it provides more Nuance to the show and um leans into this leans into kind of the central idea that I think will eventually become Sailor Moon which is you know usagi's greatest strength is her super friendship powers like her compassion and her empathy for others and her you know willingness to listen and try to help folks and I think that Arc I think that Arc is where we first kind of start to see that happening yeah

39:20 where it has just these and I think a lot of anime took took notes from what Sailor Moon does so well here with these very memorable characters of the week and these nice little thematic mini plots and that yeah and let uh that tie into you know maybe something the girls are also going through or maybe just like an object lesson type thing and then it leads into these very good aesthetic monster designs and so so when I was like watching this again I just kind of realized like the way that Sailor Moon is written it's almost kind of written like an adult drama like um like Touched by an Angel kind of sort of like oh my God if anybody remembers that show from the 90s like kind of this

40:05 like it's where some people are having some problems whatever like Sailor Moon and the sky in the guardian swoop in they kind of like solve the situation and then they kind of like peace out and I think that's why this show kind of like maybe ages so well is because it's it's not like it is a show for kids but it also is kind of straddle like it's keeping the parents interested as well I think and uh I think yeah definitely it starts with Midway through the show like once Sailor Jupiter shows up that's when the rainbow crystal Arc starts so yeah and that was actually an arc that um so when it first aired in America like they only had a certain number of shows so they just like re-ran everything for

40:51 the like next two years until it went off the air in 1997 and um so I like caught the rainbow crystal Arc like I don't know how many times so like to this day like I think like the rainbow crystal Arc is like synonymous with like my experience of Sailor Moon I think that's a good Arc to to relate to the show because I I think it encapsulates a lot of the the series best uh moments and ideas um yeah kind of kind of talking about what you were saying with it also you know appealing to adults I think that's also the arc where they really kind of start to dig into these ideas of you know these are 14 year olds who are trying to grow up and going through adolescence and you know using the Sailor Moon universe as kind of a grand metaphor for different different issues you might

41:37 face you know uh as you're going through that that kind of in-between uh phase which is probably just my long winded way of getting us to talk about Ami and Rio who Rio's a nice boy and it's kind of it's kind of too bad he dropped right off the face of the planet while you reach ue2 row got to come back yeah that's true I like Teddy too but sorry I call him Teddy because yurichiro took too long to type and uh his last name is kumada and kumami's bear so I think I you know what the the deep it part of my brain wants to say that that's actually what the dub called him but I can't remember I'm pretty sure that was just this is uh his his name was Chad oh my gosh okay Teddy is better just

42:25 let's just Teddy is better um I I kind of enjoyed him um not nearly as much as Rio I real on these episodes I really enjoy because I think they I think with usagi you have this idea of you know um a kid realizing there's a world bigger than just them and figuring out um you know how to take responsibility for their actions and uh stand up for other people and he saw he's pretty much always been compassionate but she does have these sort of moments of selfishness along the way as well um but with AMI I think and and uh per episodes with Rio I think you have kind of the almost the opposite of that which you tend to find more I think in older teens but Amy's pretty mature so it tracks that she would be going through this sooner um this idea of like you do become aware

43:11 of others and then you kind of over correct and start you know you kind of develop almost a martyr syndrome uh there's a two-part episode later down the road not two parts sorry there's two episodes back to back later down the stretch where they really I think dig into this with um Brio trying to like sacrifice himself and Amy's like wouldn't it be better to you know try to fight and stay alive like that seems like a better idea than being so selfless that you you know destroy yourself in the process and then it's followed up by the the very good Venus episode where you find out some of her backstory with the folks from London yeah and she kind of does the same thing where she like fakes her own death because she just thinks their lives will be easier without her around um and it turns out that's not the case they were very sad and they finally get a chance to kind of be honest with each

43:57 other and work things out and I think Sailorman hits those points very well I I this was actually the first time I'd seen that Monaco episode because it never got dubbed um it was just skipped over for some reason um but I feel like Monaco kind of gets the short end of the stick in this first season because there's so little time to develop her before the plot starts happening but that episode you know built builds a character for her so well and really sells her as this you know kind of mature and thoughtful kid and it's a little awkward in terms of like like she's talking to this 20-something-year-old Senpai who's telling her like I had no I I thought you were still a kid I had no idea you were so grown no she's she's still a kid with a crush on her adult co-worker sweetie you were fine but but like the

44:44 sentiment is there which I guess we should we should touch a little bit about on kind of the the couple Shaggy awkward moments that haven't aged so well as much as this is still a very good show I feel like the wedding episodes in general are good to point out tell me a little bit more um you know just uh I was specifically thinking of gosh I think it's I think it's a jadeite episode The the wedding dress whenever early on we're like well obviously all girls the First episodes are in The nephrite Arc you can tell me no I don't know what I mean that that episode yeah that episode I mean while Amy's in the background like I'm not really interested in any of this but y'all have fun

45:31 and I felt for army real good real hard there um for me the the moment where I went uh-oh was when they draft the first four episodes of Sailor Moon and thankfully this ended up being more of an aberration than a trend uh the fourth episode is the one where they all decide they need to lose weight for their boyfriends for the most part not like oh you know I feel like I should you know be healthier it's something I want to do for myself it's like oh no it's so I'll get a boyfriend uh that was a rough one that made me very concerned in that in that first stretch of episodes there's and there's little things like it's it's kind of just it's not really I think actively toxic just so much as like all right this is not what I would choose to focus on right now we're like um where usagi

46:16 is having that really All Is Lost moment at the very end of the series and she's like I I can't kiss you now because all my friends died before they got to kiss the boys they liked I'm like okay fine all those very memorable boys that they had I think I mean I think the the the the episode four like actually I think the Deke dub did a better job with it than you know the original or maybe even the viz dub I would say um just because there's just weird things that go on like you know one of the girls they have a little pow-wow and she says like you know every time I have a boyfriend like I lose weight and the other girl is like but you don't have a or you're not in love right now you don't have a boyfriend and they like start fighting and then like there's

47:03 there's another girl in that group where she's like kind of chubby and like she's talking about how like it's kind of hard to lose weight and like everybody in the else in the scene are like they don't take her seriously so uh but you know I don't you know I think it's a good if there's One Bad Apple out of 46 episodes I mean it's easy to ignore yeah I think I think there's like one or two Clunkers basically every season but for the most part the episodes are either you know real good or mostly good like you know good at heart which is impressive for a show that is now 25 25 years old I think so yeah that's on 20 26 now yeah

47:48 yeah no it is again I was impressed at how well it held up kind of all around like even the animation I thought was pretty solid for the you know um for the time but the story arcs tend to work pretty well and the characters are all great and I you know even got into some of the goofy little romances that which I think Taylor does friendship stories better than romances but uh I still got into some of them again I'm like one of three people who ship on me in Rio they're nice kids they're nice too I mean I ship Ami and Makoto too don't get me wrong um I can have multiple ships but I was one of my I think one of my biggest kind of critiques or maybe just things I'm a little bummed about with Sailor Moon is how sometimes when they start a new season they kind of hit a

48:34 reboot but yeah um and you lose there's they build up this really fun cast of supporting characters in this first season and with the exception of like motoki still shows up Naruto and umino are still there um we haven't talked about whom we know at all but I have some Sympathy For That Awkward Turtle uh and and and Teddy sorry yuchiro I'm just gonna call him Teddy I'm sorry that's fine um like they continue to show up for the next few seasons but like a lot of these other little like supporting characters like I'm not sure I don't think matoki's girlfriend gets mentioned again which bums me out she's so cool her God we haven't talked about her episode her episode is great because the whole the whole thing is like um she's trying to decide whether she should choose between her career or her romance and and then it's like actually you can have both

49:20 congrats and motoki spends the whole episode like vigorously supporting her career goals um it's not like he wants her to stay and she wants to go it's like she kind of doesn't want to break up with him and he's like no you should follow your dreams it's just it's a good episode you guys it's real good it's it's also it's also a rainbow crystal episode surprisingly shock yeah I think like uh like the this first season of Sailor Moon really leans into like like it's an action comedy like this the faces that usagi has like there's 10 bazillion gifts out there of all the faces that the facility faces that saggy makes so like I think if you

50:06 like comedy and if you like action like the first season of Sailor Moon is your jam yeah I love the series face game is extremely strong I love the the kind of soft roundness of it and the bright colors and the real and the goofiness of you know both the facial expressions and just kind of like the springy body animation like it looks good it chose a style and stuck with it and with kind of some room to like uh to to play the who's that animator from episode to episode which is which is nice that's a nice element of 90s anime that I like yeah I agree I think it's I think it's fun how the the style will there's and gosh I should look up the animated animators and I've forgotten them over the years but um the sort of you know

50:52 kind of round um soft uh features you were talking about there's one one of their lead animators that was very much I think I think it's a she I think it was very much kind of her style and so you can always kind of spot her episodes by that sort of softer look that the characters get um and they tend to tend to be some of the better ones too so I always appreciated that so I have some good news so so for Sailor Moon Crystal the the next uh the dream Arc uh they're gonna make two movies and they actually brought on the original character designer of Sailor Moon for the anime um her name is uh kazuko tadano and um so that'll be really interesting to see what she does um because I know some people have there's various opinions about the style

51:38 of cinnamon Crystal so hopefully that kind of softer style will come back yeah I hadn't for folks who've just seen the 90s anime um yeah that'll be cool yeah I'll be curious to see how the how the characters um translate to the new style I do I do like that they've been willing with Crystal to kind of take feedback and play with things because I would say that the what what's the art called in the manga I'm calling it s in my head but it's uh deathbusters I guess yeah thank you yeah the deathbusters arc that they were willing to kind of they they shifted the character designs and made them made them will kind of soften them and made them easier to animate um it got all the way up to okay

52:29 so yeah that's what she does yeah for sure uh should we talk about the ending of this season because it's a little it's a lot and then it's kind of like what on the one hand like if this had just been a standalone series I think it would have been a good ending as one that leads into other Seasons it kind of bums me out because like you said it hits that reset button after all that good good development and it's what makes our kind of a slog for me yeah I think well I guess maybe I should wait until we get into R to actually talk about this about this I really like the first 13 episodes of R I like that filler Arc they did uh quite a bit um it's the it's the black moon stuff that I that I

53:14 struggle with a bit Yeah fair fair but this was one of those the ending so you get to this this big finale where they're slogging through the snow and the scouts just start heroically dying um did that destroy you guys as kids or well it was it was very heavily edited yeah um for the the OS TV release like they didn't they did everything they uh first of all they edited it down from two episodes to one episode like a one episode finale and they also did everything they could to imply that no no no the Girls Aren't Dead they've just given their power to soggy yeah that's the ticket yeah so it's like it's still it still

54:01 has that build of the hero must go on alone but all her friends are with her but it definitely lacks the the emotional punch of the actual episode I you know I would have to have to say even machine dub years ago as a kid like that was like probably if not my my favorite of all time ending to a series or or season like it's it's in that top ten like out of all the TV shows in existence like I think the whole idea of like you know picking them off one by one was just devastating and then like coming into the viz dub like I didn't realize that they had cut out so much of the kind of fight between Sailor Moon and evil and Demian like it is Naruto

54:50 like absolutely he kicks the crap out of her I I was like watching it today and I just I just had to take a moment because I was so like emotionally invested in and and those I would say the last four episodes are kind of like I would consider like the kind of final chunk but the you know the final two are incredibly brutal emotionally they're very intense and I'm watching them like oh it's fine I mean I know they'll be back there's like 150 more episodes it'll be fine and I still got to a point where um well they killed off my two favorites like right off the bat and I was like oh those were very fitting deaths for them I'm sure they'll be fine but I'm a little upset and then they murdered the rest of them I was like [ __ ] this is this is a little rough and then especially when usagi doesn't feel like she can go on and then they brought in

55:36 ghosts and here's the thing if you want to get me you break we're bringing some ghosts telling you that they're with you and that their power will be your power too and then and that's the they got me I was like this is not fair this is cheating I I know they're gonna be fine and I'm still upset I I don't it's very well done I I do always kind of laugh at the thought of the finale because I just remember myself in like fifth grade working on one of those iMacs with the pretty colors and like furiously putting together this PowerPoint of how how edgy actually the original anime was and they all died [Applause] that's awesome I love that not like not like those lame American cartoons

56:22 that sounds par for the course uh I wasn't doing that with Sailor Moon but I was definitely doing it with anime yes attracts um yeah no the ending was was very intense and emotionally resonant and I think kind of builds up to that idea of um first of all that almost quintessential Shoujo idea that I just love which is the concept of um teamwork and and friendship and like emotional bonds being being their own form of power and so you know soggy's able to save the day not just because she is able to go on but because you know she has these people who supported her and loved her and so they're they kind of help her spiritually and emotionally uh in that in that final stretch um I I really don't care I got I was very irritated that they then went

57:09 and then they all survived somehow and they don't have memories it's fine but up until that point I thought it was I thought it was yeah I would agree with you that it was it was devastating I think I think it's like kind of unclear and having kind of like watched this over and over again like like basically what happens is that like usagi uses the silver Crystal and when she's using it she makes a wish and so she says like I just want to be a normal you know kid again and so basically that wish is what happens is that like they become normal girls again they're [ __ ] reincarnated and stuff like that like because a lot of people are kind of like you know like she was supposed to die like you know Queen Serenity her mother like totally kicked the can when she did the same thing eons

57:56 ago and I think I think yeah I don't think it's like necessarily that clear but uh you know usagi's wish is what kind of like saves everything at the end at the very end yeah oh yeah just just a little eye rolly in terms of and they were reborn at exactly the same age and exactly the same time and nothing has changed and we don't have to write the theoretical future well at that point they weren't sure they were going to get another season right so they were kind of trying to write it so uh a piece of trivia is like they didn't it was always meant to be one season like when knock knockichichi was writing this she always meant this was going to just be oh like kind of basically a One-Shot um but then once the Crescent moonwalk

58:42 the moon stick started selling kind of like half you know halfway to towards the end of the series that's when they got green lit for another season it's alive so I am I am I guess hooray for castles I'm not gonna lie I want one of those makeup compacts oh I uh so growing up my parents didn't really buy me a lot of stuff in regards to Sailor Moon but now that I'm an adult with my own money oh I am buying all the merchandise like it's it's a good I'm having a good time I love it yeah no no what better way to be a grown-up than to buy the stuff you want uh I know I'm gonna be going uh wild when I

59:29 go to I'm going to Japan in a few weeks and I will I will be coming back with probably two suitcases where I only left with one yes um so anybody so any final thoughts you want to bring about this season did did we say enough about Rhett Butler because I know we mentioned how good he was but did you want to dive into how good Rhett Butler I mean he's very good in artemis's substandard comparatively I feel like I can say I I he's already in a committed relationship with Rhett Butler and they're very much in love you just don't see it on screen it's it's there though no watching that episode again I was just like who makes

1:00:16 TV like this anymore like I I miss this good stuff like nobody like does a whole episode about animated cats anymore like like it's a great episode well it has a deliciously like wacky Saturday morning cartoon feel to it um yes just in terms of the animation in terms of the way the story goes when Rhett Butler flings down a fishbone and The Tuxedo Mask Spanish guitars play in the background it's one of the best light comedic moments in the entire series and zoicide and the Rats oh God yeah a bad day and then I think red is the only monster that like well Rio tries and then kind of gets his his overridden but I think Rhett's the only

1:01:02 monster that like they turn him into a monster like attack the scouts and he's like nah nah I'm the captain he ends up helping them out because he loves Luna so much she's cute also I had a big fat cat at the time and Fuzzy's about the big fat cat I had um so there's also that anyway sorry we promised that we would talk about the Red Butler episode so I thought we should probably get that in there it's very like if you go back to no other episodes of this show that one though yes yes that again that whole rainbow crystal Arc like you can rewatch that whole Arc and have a and it's it's very good yeah again basically anything with my boy in it it's a solid entertainment value I wouldn't say this is sailor moon at its very very best but I do think the second half of it is

1:01:49 um is up there and provides kind of hints and glimmers of of where the show is going to go and what it's going to be um so I I again the first half I think can be a little bit of a slog especially as an adult watching it nowadays um but the second half is excellent and I would you know definitely recommend it to to people even even now yep yeah for sure yeah and you can if you are in the US you can watch it all on Hulu I don't know about other about other regions yeah I'm not I'm not yeah yeah and we'll come back to talk about the other Seasons uh as well don't worry we're not gonna leave you hanging it may be a little bit I need to re-watch some stuff

1:02:39 I haven't done a proper watch since I was a kid so it'll be fun but uh thank you but look forward to it when we do come back it'll be the same three of us and uh thanks so much for joining us Santa fam if you enjoyed this episode you can find more episodes of on our SoundCloud by searching for anime feminist or if you want to see more of what we do in text form you can go to animefeminist.com or patreon.com anime feminist that's what pays the bills that's how we're able to pay all of our contributors and editors and even a dollar a month can help uh we're you know breaking even now but we want to be able to expand out to do more to pay our contributors more to be able to pay for uh people to

1:03:27 transcribe these podcasts to make our site more accessible for you so any support is really appreciated you can also find us on social media on facebook.com animefem on tumblr.com anime feminist or animefeminist.tumblr.com or on Twitter at anime feminist thank you so much everybody and we'll see you next time thank you