Splitting: The All or Nothing Dichotomy in Narcissism

0:01 Hello everybody. Thanks for joining me this evening. This evening I'm going to be talking about splitting. Okay, it's a topic that's come up quite a few times in some of the recent videos I've been uh doing, some of the recent discussions I've been having with people. Uh questions have come up asking me to go a bit more in depth into the concept of splitting. So that's going to be tonight's focus. So, splitting, um, I'm sure a lot of people are familiar with it in the terms of things like narcissistic relationships and so on. Everything's either good or it's bad. And at its bare minimum, that's what really splitting is. It is something of a what's known as

0:47 a primitive defense mechanism. In other words, it's something that we learn very early on. You could say it's one way of uh maybe protecting ourselves from things like cognitive dissonance, from having two opposing thoughts and beliefs at the at the same time. So, I'm going to give you an idea of splitting and then I'm going to go a bit more in depth uh in in terms of what it looks like with narcissistic relationships. So, if anybody was around during the '9s, as you can probably guess, I was. I'm slightly over 30, as you can see. Um, back in the '9s, there was a band that were really, really big. Oasis.

1:33 Everybody loved Oasis except me. Okay, I really did not like them. I didn't like their music. I didn't like their I didn't like how they presented themselves in public. They always seemed to be so arrogant. They were always arguing with each other and you know the two the two brothers in the band. I really didn't like them and I couldn't stand their music. However, one time they put a song out and it was a really good song. Still is. It's one of my favorite songs. Um I could not accept that this band that I did not like had put out this really amazing song. Okay. It was just part of me was finding it very hard to accept. So that

2:18 was a form of splitting. So it's like good people do good things, bad people do bad things. Not that good people are capable of doing wrong things, bad things, inappropriate things from time to time. Or bad people, people we don't like are capable of, you know, acts of kindness, generosity, and things like that. We find that very hard to accept. That's how I was back then, listening to Oasis. Did not like them at all. Okay. As the years go by, um, you know, as all of us do, we start to become a bit nostalgic and I'm more able to recognize that I did not particularly like their music.

3:03 There were some songs were absolutely fantastic. I did not particularly have to like how they behaved in public and so on, but I don't have to because that's got nothing to do with their their skill, their talent, their creativity and so on. So, what we often do when we're splitting or what we can do, what most of us do is we start to reconcile and we start to recognize that there can be good and bad. We recognize that even people we don't like have really good qualities. um people that we do like are capable of maybe annoying us and upsetting us. With narcissism, this is different. With narcissism, we see this as a

3:49 defense mechanism where it's either this or it's that. There is no spectrum. There is no shades of gray in between. So everything goes into ex like extreme extreme categories. It's either all good or it's all bad. Which is why you sometimes hear things like even um maybe a colleague they have in work. They might not be best friends. They might not get on. They can work well together. They do what they have to do, you know. Um they can behave professionally, but they won't say something like I I don't really like him. There's just something about him, you know, we just don't seem to jail. Rather, you will hear something like I hate him. Okay? So, you get these absolutes when it comes to narcissism.

4:36 There's no room for nuance. There's no room for context. Um, there's a difficulty being able to hold two conflicting thoughts or feelings at the same time. Someone can be a good person but have flaws. Someone can be very deeply flawed but still be a good person. Um, and it goes further than that, not just when it comes to people. It's like a situation can be difficult like maybe passing your driving test. It could be difficult to learn how to drive a car and to pass your driving test. So, it could be difficult but it is fair. Okay, we all have to reach the same standard. Um, it could even be rewarding. You know, we all feel good when we accomplish something. But with

5:22 narcissism, it has to be one or the other. It can't be difficult and rewarding. If it's difficult, then it must be bad. with narcissism as well. In fact, with all of us whenever we're splitting, it's not necessarily a conscious decision. It's what I mentioned earlier on about it being a defense mechanism. It's it's a very primitive one. So, if I was to explain it this way, if you think of a baby uh little little baby, um the world is perfectly simple to them. When the baby's needs are met, you know, they get a cuddle, they get fed, they get soothed and things like that, the parent is good. But if the parent is unavailable, then they're bad. Okay? So that's how maybe babies look at the world. It's a

6:08 form of splitting. But as that child is growing, they start to merge the two versions of the parent. The good parent and the bad parent are the same person. They're they're a whole person. And they're not always going to be available. um because maybe there are other siblings to look after, maybe they have to go to work. There's different things going on. Maybe, you know, uh the other parent has to look after them or grandparents or whatever, but the child recognizes there are both positive and negative qualities, but the parent is fundamentally loving and and reliable. But at that stage, I I believe, okay, there might be experts out there on a higher pay grade than me that can maybe um phrase this better or could could maybe um say more about this, but I

6:55 believe with people with very strong narcissistic traits, it gets stuck. The integration gets stuck. So, you might be good until you're not. And then it's like all the good gets erased. Anything that came before that just gets erased. You're now all totally bad. It's not that you're capable of both. It's not that you don't have both qualities. And with narcissism again to be able to acknowledge that maybe let me go back a bit. A lot of the questions came around this when I was talking to Richard Grant and we were talking about idealizing. Whenever we meet someone, we and we start to fall for each other. We start to idealize each other. We start to

7:42 idealize the relationship. But again, as time goes on and we get to know each other, we can recognize things like they snore, you know, they pick their nose or whatever. They're not perfect. They forget things. They make mistakes. And we can recon we can reconcile that. Okay? It doesn't necessarily have to bring up a cognitive dissonance in us. We start to realize that the idealized version was an idealized version. Sometimes they're going to meet and that's lovely when they do. Other times, not so much. With narcissism, it's very difficult for them to recognize a flaw in someone that they have idealized.

8:28 Um, it's almost like they've been betrayed or something. You're not the version of you that I need you to be. You're not the version of you I have created in my head. That creates like an internal chaos. Okay? And they can't manage that. So rather than just accept this person has their flaws, they pick their nose or whatever it is. Maybe not in public and all over the place, but every now and again they do it, you know. um they're not the perfect version of the of themselves that they want them to be. And that's when the de the devaluation comes in. So it's like the mind splits. Put it this way. It's like the mind splits. They can't integrate the two versions. They can't maybe manage their

9:14 expectations, reappraise their own idealized version. rather they split into this sort of all or nothing um reality to try to protect themselves and their view of the other person shifts dramatically. What they don't recognize is this isn't necessarily a true reflection of who the other person is. It's more a reflection of their inability to see the other person as a complete human being again with all their warts and all with all their good qualities with all their bad qualities with all their indifferent kind of qualities that don't really mean anything. So you get that split and it's very all or nothing. It's black or

9:59 white. It's right or it's wrong. It's good or it's bad. And that's that's part of that cycle um that a lot of people have heard about the cycle of idealization, devaluation, and then discard. But the thing is it really depends on the person. I'm always careful when I say this. It depends on the person. This isn't always a deliberate tactic in order to, you know, um confuse people and hurt people. It's more like it's not a rather it's not always a deliberate tactic to try to destabilize people or rather just an unhealthy pattern of behavior. I think it's more like a a the way they behave. It's like an outward

10:45 expression of that internal all or nothing world that they live in. Okay, remember if something isn't that easy then it must be bad. If not, if people don't see them the way they see themselves, they must be bad people. So, take a little drink. I really need start that again. I really need to start bringing water up because Coke's not necessarily a good thing to be drinking when you're thirsty. Anyway, what was I talking about? Get back to What was I talking about? Um yeah the stages I was talking about the idealizing the devaluing and so on. So in that those early stages the ide

11:31 idealization phase this is all good. So in terms of a relationship, it could be a job, it could be anything. It could be a group they join, it could be anything at all, but they get there is this good stage. And if it's a relationship or friend, partner, whatever, they put that person on a a a pedestal, if you will, kind of like we all do to some degree, but they put them on maybe an incredibly high pedestal. And narcissistic people tend to do they do what everybody does, but it's more pathized. It's more ramped up through the ceiling. Just like when we fall for someone, we love how we feel about ourselves when

12:18 we're with them. We love to do things to make them feel good. We love to surprise them and things like that. Narcissistic people are the same. They love how you feel about them. Okay? They love the fact that you can't stop thinking about them and all all the rest of it. You're to the narcissistic person. You're not just a great person. You're not just a fantastic person. You're not just a wonderful purp wonderful person. Wonderful purpose. Strange thing to say. Maybe something Freudian going on. Purpose. Um it's like you're flawless. You become this uh almost like a magical kind of being if you will who has come to complete them. They are going to spend the rest of their days feeling absolutely

13:04 wonderful because of how they feel, how you make them feel, things like that. Okay, you've become this wonderful, wonderful person. A lot of people would call this the love bombing stage. And this is where they would shower the other person with attention, affection. They start to mirror them, their their values, their dreams, things like that. And to the other person, it's like they've met their perfect soulmate. This person is just so wonderful because think about it. You've you've become the you've become this this embodiment of everything that is good. And a lot of the times when we're in that love bombing stage, it's like we're reflecting back their own desired

13:51 grandiosity because we think they're absolutely wonderful just like they in the early stages probably think we're wonderful. But the thing is that idealized version, remember, it's ideal. It's a fantasy. It's not real. So the pedestal that they put you on can be very, very fragile. And it's fragile just like their self-concept. fragile in the sense that it's not based on reality. It's based on fantasy. It's based on the version of you that they want you to be. It's based on the ver not not on the version of you that you really are. Okay? Just like the version of them that we fell for is not the real them. Okay? As I say, in most

14:37 relationships, we can navigate that and we can accept that. We can reappraise our expectations and things like that and we still love the other person and they still love us. We just accept that we are not perfect and flawless. Narcissistic relationships it's very different because with that fantasy they hold on to the fantasy as if it is real as if it should be real. Okay? And it's up to you to keep it real. But the thing is, reality does tend to find a way to creep in one way or another. For instance, you might disagree over something. You might make a mistake over something. One way or another, you will do something that disappoints them. Uh maybe you couldn't

15:24 mind readad. Maybe you couldn't preempt their everyone. Maybe they were telling you something that happened in work and you're just pointing out that well maybe you shouldn't have been behaving like that and it wouldn't have happened. One way or another, something happens and there's a quick shift into the devaluation stage. And this is where we go from everything is good, all is good to all is bad. And this is commonly referred to as like a narcissistic injury. And it doesn't even have to be a criticism for them. It could be a perceived criticism. And that could be anything. That could be you're just a normal human being with flaws. Or maybe you're just talking about reality. You're maybe just giving

16:09 a different perspective on something or you might challenge an idea, something you don't fully understand or whatever. But one way or another, this could be perceived as criticism. Narcissistic people are both highly sensitive and highly resistant to any kind of criticism. It's almost like it's a a personal attack on them. But when that happens, you have shattered their perfect image, not just of themselves, but of you. You shatter their image of you. And this is again, this is when the split occurs. the person that they once thought was good and was going to worship them

16:56 forever and was going to keep them feeling absolutely amazing about themselves is now seen as a traitor, seen as maybe disgusting and worthless and all the rest of it. Again, it's their all or nothing thinking. They cannot be just a little bit disappointed. They cannot do any kind of maybe self-reflection, little bit of introspection. It's like all of the good that came before has just become erased. Every bit of good that came before is almost like you were trying to con them or something. You were lying to them or whatever and you now become bad. And that criticism

17:42 again, it's it's not just in in uh it's not just in their view of you. It it uh it's not just that you might have disagreed with them or whatever. It's it's going to leak out into a lot of different areas. It's not going to be something like um you didn't just disagree with me. You're always fighting with me. You're always picking holes in everything I say. You didn't just make a mistake. you know, you forgot to bring milk home with you or something, you know, whatever it was. It could be something trivial, but it's you always mess things up. So, again, we're getting to this sort of a generalized it's always this. It's never that kind of language. Just like if you set a boundary, you say no to something. You're not just being selfish. You are the most selfish person they have ever

18:28 met. You care about no one but yourself. And they might even accuse you of having some kind of malicious intent for a simple oversight. They'll lash out with rage. Um they might punish you with the silent treatment. That that that simple oversight could be something simple like you forgot to stop and buy milk on your way home. But to them, this is evidence of what a horrible person you are. This is where a lot of the gaslighting and blameshifting commonly kick in as well. And what they're doing when when they're uh trying to recreate uh rewrite your narrative, rewrite your history and they're dumping all of their bad stuff

19:14 onto you. I'm guessing, I'm speculating that internally what they're doing is they're trying to solidify this bad version of you by dumping all of the bad stuff on you. But in reality, you're not really being punished for who you really are. You're being punished for failing to be the version of you they need you to be, the one that they created. Again, that all or nothing thinking they can't be wrong. There's no way they could have been wrong about you. So if they have been wrong about you, maybe you are flawed, maybe you do make mistakes, maybe you do forget things from time to time, maybe you don't pick their side in every

19:59 single battle. Well, again, that's because you've betrayed them. You are now the bad person. And what you often find is this can happen in a one-off thing. So it's like you can never recover, but other times this becomes a cycle that repeats over and over, sometimes even within the one day. And this is where people are often, you know, they often describe they're walking on eggshells because they do not know what version of the narcissistic person they're going to be faced with. They might do a good thing hoping that it's a good thing, hoping they're going to win back favor, get some kind of approval, only to be rejected yet again. It's not a comfortable way to live. It

20:44 does leave people in this constant state of stress and strain. The narcissistic person, again, it depends on where they are, I guess, and how deeply ingrained these things are. They like the thought of you trying to win back their favor because that's uh validating their superiority and their sense of entitlement. But no matter what you do, it doesn't fill that internal void, that emptiness. So again, they can punish you for that. Um or they might again projecting their own stuff onto you. The fact that you are trying to do something good, the fact that you are trying to win back their favor. Well, as far as they're

21:30 concerned, maybe you're trying to manipulate them somehow because again, that's the kind of thing that they would do. Again, they assume other people think like they do. But one way or another um trying to get back on their good side, but they're unable to realize that both sides are true. You can get something wrong. Doesn't make you a bad person. Okay? They find that very hard to reconcile. Now, for me, I get to Yeah. So that that's that's splitting that all or nothing that right or wrong

22:17 good or bad is really how narcissistic people it's how they process reality. So other people are either a value or they're not. They're either a hero or they're a villain. They are either a saint or a sinner. People aren't capable of both. So the thinking is, if you will, it's very simplified. And I'm just thinking maybe a way of putting it as well is that all or nothing thinking. Um it's because they do tend to interpret things in what it means to them. So it's a very self-referential way of thinking. It's about what it means to them. Which is

23:03 why maybe an innocent comment could be heard as a deliberate insult. A different opinion could feel like a personal attack. The word no could be the crulest thing, the most selfish thing they have ever heard in their lives. And yet they're seeing themselves as being maybe highly intelligent, as being super aware. They are emotionally intelligent. Um they are highly moral, you know, they are just, I don't know, little fountains of virtue and things like that. That's how they're seeing themselves because again they don't necessarily want to see the other parts of themselves.

23:50 I suppose I would say at this point that all or nothing and thinking doesn't necessarily mean that they can't think critically because maybe when it comes to problem solving maybe in a task maybe a project at work or something they probably can do it but I think in many cases when it comes to critically thinking maybe maybe thinking through an argument a perceived criticism or a disagreement on something being able to think about their own perspective ive and is there any new information they would be open to? Well, that ego defense mechanism I think just won't let them. It shuts down. It must be a threat. Their their version of themselves is being attacked and they have to defend themselves.

24:35 Um maybe trying to reflect on something might mean having to confront some kind of complexity. Having to reflect on something might mean having to be open to the possibility of being wrong that maybe someone has a piece of information that they don't have. So their ego is not really going to tolerate that. Quite often what you get are very emotional reactive responses. Now another side of the splitting can be how trying to think of how to phrase this. Another way this splitting could manifest is it could help explain this amnesia they

25:21 tend to have over their own behavior. Um the fact that they had lied to you for instance. Well, they can't remember lying to you. It's it's you that's got it wrong. Um something didn't happen quite the way you remember it. Again, the gaslighting's kicking in. Um, whatever it was happened happened because of you. Whatever it is you did 20 years ago. Um, so there is like this what I refer to sometimes as like a toxic amnesia. You know, you you accuse them of something. They're always doing this. They're always lying to you. They're always treating you badly. And they ask you for an example and you give them maybe two or three examples, but they look at you, they're confused. They have

26:06 no idea what you're talking about, you know? always used to you know what was it again what was the question so it's like this kind of toxic amnesia that they seem to forget their own bad behavior and the things that they have done that impact others I think what's happening there is that behavior is getting split off from this idealized version of themselves remember they are good people they are the best people they are I say little fountains of virtue and things like that, they are morally superior. So, when they're splitting in that sense, um they're really engaging in in a in a lot of denial, a lot of uh forgetfulness and things

26:52 like that. And they're doing this to maintain that view of themselves as a good person. There are times when I would suggest that their denial isn't always a conscious lie. Now, it certainly can be, but sometimes it just comes out automatically. They don't know how to accept reality when it comes to themselves. And I like how um narcissism is sometimes referred to as like a a defense mechanism against reality, against the truth. So, the lie could come out, it is deliberate, and they're just trying to shift things. They're trying to make things uncomfortable for you. They're trying to confuse you or whatever. Sometimes it just comes out. It is instant. It is out there before they uh

27:40 even actually think about it. Which is why they sometimes can't even remember their own excuses from even 2 minutes ago. Another aspect of the splitting can be if they do something that does upset or hurt you and they know that they have upset and hurt you. But rather than maybe apologize and commit not to do or say that again, what they might do is they might make you a nice dinner or they might buy you a gift or they might um promise to take you on this lovely holiday or whatever. to them it's like the bad stuff has been wiped out. Whatever it was they did or said, you're not supposed to remember

28:25 that. Which is why um when I was talking about narcissistic families one time, one of the things I said was the the the a narcissistic parent might confuse love with things. They buy things for the kids. They buy them amazing toys. They buy them the best stuff. um they buy them flash trendy clothes and things like that. Confusing love for things. So I think what they're doing is they're splitting there as well. Um they're trying to ignore their maybe their own neglect, maybe their own harsh judgment, maybe their own unkind humor and things like that or whatever they did to the friend or the partner or whatever. They are

29:11 hoping to undo that with this act of generosity. Now, they can get very annoyed and upset when the other person won't forget what was said or what was done. Maybe it was far too hurtful. Maybe it wasn't the first time. Maybe this was an ongoing thing, but they are getting very upset. You're not supposed to remember that. You're supposed to split as well. You know, you're not supposed to remember me, you know, cheating on you or telling everyone lies about you or whatever. You're not supposed to remember that. So, they're getting very frustrated. Um, another aspect of that could be if you decide you've had enough, you know, you want to break it off, you want to leave or whatever,

29:58 rather than, you know, just acknowledge my behavior has pushed this person too far, they might come back with something like, right, who who's been talking to you about me or or what did this person say to you about me? or that was that counselor of yours or that's that brother of yours or whatever you know whoever it was this this person someone has put this in your head because remember they have a version of you this version of you that's usually very malleable apart from idealized and all the rest of it as far as they're concerned it's like you're too stupid to work it out for yourself that their behavior is toxic you you you couldn't there's no way you could have figured it out for yourself that the best thing you could do is leave. So that can be another aspect of uh of of the

30:44 splitting. It's either all of this or it's all of that little in between. So I suppose a question that would come to mind would be why do they not see the pain they're causing? And when they do, why do they think they can just do it with a little gift? Well, I think that would you would have to assume there would be a level of self-awareness. There would al also have to be a level of empathy that just isn't there. Remember, this is like a an automatic survival mechanism that kicks in to protect that version of themselves, how they view themselves, how they view you, how they view the world and everything.

31:29 the sense of entitlement, the grandiosity, the belief that they're special. Again, it's not really based in reality. And because it's not based in reality, it is very fragile. So, the truth, reality, consequences, things like that tend to get rejected. anything at all that would threaten their image of themselves, whether that's criticism, um, rejection, being held to account, whatever, that can trigger a lot of pain, a lot of emotional, psychological pain. And the splitting is one way of protecting themselves from this. So when they devalue others, cast them as all bad, all horrible people, all wicked, nasty people, and they project their own

32:17 unwanted stuff and negativity out onto other people. What they're doing is they're trying to convince themselves that is not them who is flawed. It is other people. Often said when it comes to narcissism, if the fault is always external, then so is the solution. So is the responsibility things like that. It's nothing to do with them. Again, you've probably met people like this that doesn't matter what they're involved in, what they go through, or anything like that. It's it's it's almost like they're just an innocent bystander in their own lives. When they are held to account, whatever it is they have been doing, it's not their behavior that's causing the problem. It is yours. Everything they do

33:03 they will claim as a reaction to you. Everything is being dumped outwards. Again, it's very difficult for them to accept reality. Splitting protects them from that. Now, the thing about the the behavior, the splitting and things like that, going back a little bit further, regardless of what the behavior is, it is always about them. When you're being idealized, it's because you make them feel special, just like they might make us feel special as well. But when you're devalued, this is about their need to expel what's going on inside of them.

33:49 They do not like that pain. They know their pain. They know it hurt. They know they're disappointed, things like that. But they don't want to own it. They don't want to have that. They don't want to have to adjust. They don't have to look at their own expectations, their own conditions and things like that. So again, it is just expelled outwards onto you on the other people. Now, when you think of it and you recognize this is what they're doing. Now, this doesn't excuse their behavior. Okay, this is this doesn't excuse any abusive behavior, any gaslighting, any lying, but it can be helpful to can be useful to help us maybe depersonalize it

34:36 in the sense that regardless of the kind of relationship, it's like you were cast in this role in their version of the world, in their little internal drama. you were cast in a role, but when you didn't stick to the script, when you were just maybe authentic, when you were just living your life, when you were, I don't know, working in the place that you like to work, or you had friends that they didn't like or whatever, or you didn't say yes to every single one of their demands. So, when you go off script, they didn't change the play. They didn't change the narrative. They just recast you as the villain, gained the person

35:25 who betrayed them or whatever. So, it's not necessarily about you. You do maybe have your responsibility as we all do, but that's not the same as fault. That's not the same as blame. And the thing about the splitting as well, we can drive ourselves insane, trying to get them to see nuance, trying to get them to see that good people can make mistakes as much as bad people can do good things. The goal isn't about us trying to fix the splitting because we can't. The only person that can do that is them. They would have to do a lot of work in themselves. So, it's not about trying to fix them or even manage them.

36:12 It's about trying to manage yourself. You manage your own reactions. I often say if we're being provoked when we react, the other person has control. If we respond, if we choose to respond, then we have control. Okay? So, it's about managing your own boundaries and things like that when it comes to things like the splitting. And I think the best one of the best ways of doing that is to have some kind of clarity. When you feel yourself being vilified for something, just recognize that this isn't about me. This is maybe them. This is them splitting. This is them ignoring all of the stuff that came before this or even the stuff that could potentially come afterwards. It's just in this moment,

36:57 they're disregulated and they're accusing me of a lot of stuff that's not mine. Okay. Also recognizing a lot of the provocation with narcissistic people, they're often looking for like an emotional reaction. Now, whether that's your anger, your attempts to defend yourself, your crying, what doesn't matter what it is, your tears, doesn't matter what it is. They're looking for some kind of emotional reaction. This gives them some kind of supply. They're feeding off this. Sometimes you're fueling their narrative. Sometimes you're just feeding them because they're getting some kind of attention. That's what I said about a re uh response. Whenever if you choose to respond,

37:43 then you're the one with control. Okay? It's when people find things like the gray rock method useful. Um minimal neutral responses. Um no emotion, no argument, maybe one-word answers. However you decide to do that, um it kind of starves them of the reaction that they crave. Now, thing is sometimes we don't know how people are going to react. Sometimes it's best to just remove yourself from the situation. But one way or another, you're not giving them the answers. You're not overly explaining yourself either. when you're explaining yourself um to narcissistic person, I always liken it to the more the more information you

38:30 give, the more they can pick up on it. And the more you try to be reasonable, the more you'll find their more their arguments more appeal to emotion. They're more emotive arguments. They're very, very difficult. They're very difficult to reason with. So maybe just uh when you recognize that maybe there's no real debate to be had, you know, um you're trying to maybe apply logic to a very irrational and emotional process. Um if you need to maybe state your position once and then end the conversation. Okay. Going on about the mentioned boundaries a moment ago as well. And a boundary could be something like if you continue to scream at me, if you continue to

39:16 speak at me like that, the conversation is over. The thing is, if they do continue, you have to follow that through. That's the thing. Um, if you stay at a boundary and a consequence for crossing it, if you don't do that or even if you do something else instead, one way or another, you've just shown them that your boundaries aren't you're not serious. So, they will keep on going. They will keep on going. What you might find as well is at first they're more than likely to keep on testing them. So you need to be consistent as well. And I did a live stream a while ago, you'll need to hunt back through the the the list of them to find them about boundaries, how to recognize them, how to enforce them and things like that. if you find that useful. Um,

40:05 remembering as well if you're in a long-term situation uh like that and there's a lot of all or nothing thinking um that can be very destabilizing. I mentioned earlier on about how we could be on walking on eggshells trying not to trigger something in them. It can be very very damaging but recognizing as well that it can also be contagious. We have to be aware of that as well. Um, it's not always easy to do, but yeah, I mean, I think therapy is a good place to start. Um, and even I always say the antidote to toxic people are decent people. Um, we don't always have to split. Remember, we can hold two thoughts at the same time. Both things can be true. We can

40:52 recognize that someone we loved hurt us. um we can acknowledge our pain, our regret and things like that without getting lost in in uh going down a lot of uh rabbit holes and overanalyzing things. Um again, that concept of decent people are the antidote to toxic people. They don't have to be best friends, you know, it could be anybody. Just a little bit of common human decency here and there that can help us rebuild our own internal world. So, it's no longer a reflection of the chaotic one. Now, I'm not going to go into too much detail, but I was talking to Mark Beer over the weekend. I know I'll put a clip of the video out on Saturday. The full thing

41:38 will be coming out tomorrow where he talks about um how to integrate those things. Um based on the books that he's he's written and so on. Um, but I will end by saying this. The the constant upheaval, the constant accusations, the black and white thinking and things like that, the all or nothing thinking, a lot of the time it keeps us destabilized. Sometimes it is actually designed to keep us off balance. But once we understand the mechanism of splitting, well, again, it's not so much about personalizing it. I often say that it's hard not to personalize it when you're on the wrong end of it. But how they treat you, how they treat me, how they treat other people, remember they would do that to anybody,

42:26 anybody at all. That's just who they are in the world. And unless they gain a bit of insight and do a bit of work on themselves, they're just going to keep on doing the same thing. So to summarize, I guess the splitting is, as I mentioned, it's a very primitive defense mechanism that we learn very very young. And it it's it keeps people it stops people from seeing others as as a whole as as the whole thing. They're either all of this or they're all of that. There's not room for all of it. Okay? And it's something that powers the idealization and the devaluation cycle. um this constant all or nothing thinking style recognizing you can't fix their

43:11 thinking. Okay, it's up to them. I think the most we can ever do with others anyway is maybe encourage them, influence them, motivate them, things like that. But we cannot do it for them. And if someone has defense mechanisms that are so deeply ingrained that they're trying to protect a very false version of themselves. No, we're certainly got our work cut out for us. Okay. Recognizing and understanding that dynamic can help us to disengage from the chaos. I suppose to give an example, um if I put out a video or something and I I get something in the comments, uh if

43:58 someone criticizes me and tells me where I got something wrong, well, fair enough because I do get things wrong. I mispronounce things. I don't explain a concept um properly. And that's that's perfectly fine. Don't have an issue with that. Um but then other times I will get someone who is just very they're very unkind you know they'll make a personal remark or whatever and I'm wrong because of this one experience they had all the literature is clearly wrong and stuff like that and they can be very mean. Now I could choose to react to them. I could choose to say um well actually it's this or it's that or whatever. I generally choose not to. I I tend to just just leave it. Um what they

44:44 want to do with that is entirely up to them. I don't want to engage with someone who possibly could be splitting. They just seen someone they don't like. Maybe say something they didn't like the sound of. So I don't particularly want to convince them otherwise. I just kind of leave it uh just just leave it hanging. Um, I guess I'm saying about I'm giving that as an example is you're choosing to protect your own peace, your own peace of mind, your own reality if you will. Okay. So, I hope you found the concept of splitting. I hope I explained that okay for everybody. I hope uh that made sense

45:29 to you. I'm going to go back to the beginning as I always do and I'm going to call up the chats. Uh let me see where are we? Live chat. Yeah, there we go. Now, so uh again, anybody has any questions, uh question mark is very useful for me to find it. Um and John is saying first one that I come to is confusing love with materialism. Yeah, it's giving you things. It's promising things. Um you're breaking up with them. you be you don't want any more contact and they start to promise to pay you back the money they borrowed

46:16 or they promise you this holiday that they promised you for the past couple of years or they're going to do this amazing thing and they want you to be a part of it so yeah they confuse love with things I will give you things you will accept the things you will like the things and all the other stuff is going to be ignored yeah where we get to so Um, right. Let me see. Uh, Angela saying, "I hope Darren answers that question," Kimberly. Now, Kimberly, I cannot find a question from you. I'll see if I can I don't know if this has started from

47:02 the beginning or not. Um, Kimberly, I cannot find your question. So, if you're still around, if you could maybe add it again and I'll get it as I come down. So, I do apologize. Marina life animal is marina life animal. I think people's names are the creative names people come up with. Is splitting a fancy term for how they're hot and cold? It can be. Um, sometimes the hot and cold can be a strategy, a tactic to keep you off balance, but other times, no, it can be. Um,

47:48 when I was speaking to Sarah Kryson uh from Cluster B milkshake, she described splitting. I thought it was interesting. She would say about how she would get angry and she'd scream at someone. She'd behave, you know, uh, very aggressively and so on. She's splitting. All of the good stuff that came before that has just been wiped out. They are now sort of like evil incarnate, if you know what I mean, and they're treated as such. But then she'd say a day or two later, and it's like she's got over it. All that that stuff's gone. and she hang on. Why are you still mad at this after the way I screamed at you the other day? Um, I'm over it. Why are you not over it? So, there can be different things going on. Sometimes, yes, it can be a tactic to

48:34 destabilize. Other times, it's the the split. They've split one way and then they've went back the other way. So, it really depends on the person and on the situation. Um, so if we get to um top chat, that's what's wrong. That's what's wrong. It's looking at the wrong thing. I was looking at top chat instead of live chat. So if I go back to this, maybe I will find it. That question I missed earlier. Maybe I will find it. Uh, no, I don't see it. Okay. Um,

49:25 what nam is asking what b or I was saying what baffles me is how they regulate mood by tearing down others or hurting others. As a psychology student, I truly wonder the science or theory behind that. Uh, well, I'm not going to give you what it says in the psychology literature. I'm going to give you my version of it. It's because some people only feel good about themselves if they're feeling better than others. With narcissism, key component is envy. Okay? Now, they believe others envy them or should envy them because they're so amazing. In reality, they can be very envious. So even someone getting a new job or someone you know

50:11 meeting a new friend or joining a new club or any kind of accomplishment at all. This brings up something in them. This brings up envy in them. Now it's a very destructive kind of envy. It's not a an inspirational kind of envy. Oh, that sounds good. I'd like to do that or I'm going to hang around with that person and learn how they do it so well. No, this is more um the fact that you have achieved something that is taking something from me. I am no longer the alpha here. I am no longer superior. So it becomes very very destructive. It's where you get a lot of oneupmanship. Okay. Um self-esteem I often think self-esteem is not so much what I think of me, it's what I believe others think of me. So if

50:58 someone is feeling good about something they've accomplished, then they're not envying me and they're supposed to. That's when my envy kicks in. That's when I want to maybe undermine that or devalue that or take it away from them or ruin it somehow. Okay? That's how narcissistic people think. Only feel good if they're feeling better than other people. So I hope hope that answers your question. Um I get to brain fried fish. Uh, splitting is when they go into a petulant rage because their projected false self is challenged in some way. That's a pretty good summary. I would say that they certainly can go into your

51:44 rage. Yep. Yep. Sometimes they'll just ignore you. They'll shut you off. They'll do whatever. Ostracize you, gossip about gossip to others about you one way or another. But yeah, rage is one of the ways that can manifest. Um, Marina Life says, "Darren is so calm." Really? You want to see me in action? You want to seen me earlier on when I let Freud off his lead and he saw something in the field and could I get him back? Oh, no. That was much more interesting. Was I calm then? Um, I have my moments. Uh, let me get to Joy Davis is saying, "Watching live from Jackson Jacksonville Florida USA."

52:33 Joy Davis, uh, welcome all the way from Florida, USA. Um, I believe the weather's always good there. So, um, I live in a country where we only have two types of weather. It's either raining or it's not as wet. So, um, yeah, it always interests me that people from all over the world watch these videos. I've had people asking if I can translate my videos into different languages. I don't know any other languages, so I can't. But I've since learned that AI can do it. So, um, I don't know, maybe I'd sound weird with a French accent. Who knows? Uh but anyway, yeah, fascinates me that people all over the world watch this.

53:20 Um get to night sky asking, "So you think they could psychologically develop beyond splitting?" Maybe it's the optimist in me, but I would never rule anything out. The caveat being it really depends on the person. There are people who have channels on YouTube. They are diagnosed with um things like narcissistic personality as much as other things. So, they're self-aware and they're aware of things like splitting. And they seem to be putting a lot of work into themselves. They know that it's there. They know they're doing it. and they have been learning little ways to um try to manage that or at least not

54:07 to um explode or things like that. Um but it really depends on the person. You might find someone who does become self-aware, they don't really care. They're fine. It works for them. Then you have people who are in just so much denial, they will not acknowledge their splitting. It is just this is my view of the world and it's the rest of the world who's wrong. It's like I mentioned earlier um if someone believes the fault always lies outside of themselves then so does the blame, so does the responsibility and so does the solution, nothing to do with them. So it really depends on the person. Um there are other people out there on a higher pay

54:52 grade than me that will tell you something different. Um, and that's that's fair enough. Maybe they know things I don't. Um, but I'd like to think it's just the optimist in me that that people can most people can change if there is the incentive and the the will to try, but it really depends on the person. Uh, where' we get to? Um, I've just had a big jump. Right. See if I can get back to where I was. Uh,

55:42 okay. Getting a lot of comments. Very interesting comments. Again, if I have a question, question mark makes it uh captain commenter says, "Narcissistic parents can get mad and abuse you if you're a kid and you disagree with them." Yeah, I think the difference is most parents might get a bit frustrated um if the kids are answering back and they won't do what they're told. Difference is with narcissistic parents, it's like it's one narrative. Well, even a narcissistic person, again, it is one narrative and you're not the version of you. Um, in a narcissistic family, I think it's like perfect parents have perfect kids. Now, in the home and the kids could be scapegoed and things like

56:29 that, they could be pitted against each other and so on. Out in public, it's like, as far as anyone's concerned, we are the best family there is. We're a wonderful family. There's no one like us. Um but yeah um especially as the kids start to grow up they start to form friendships people in school they start to date as they become teenagers and things like that. There's less control uh if you will the parents are getting less and less control as they're starting to become a person. So yeah they can they can see that as again you're you're not the version of you that you should be. So, where do we get to? Um, oh, I think I've got a question here.

57:19 Cynthia is asking, "How is it they appear to be working with a new supplying baby when he was a monster with me and our baby? I just don't get it." Um, I don't know your situation, Cynthia, but I will hazard a guess that this person wasn't a monster when you met. I'll hazard to guess this new supply, they're just the same with them as they were with you. Okay. Um, whatever is going on with them is still going to be there. And I was saying, you might see pictures of people on social media and so on and they're smiling and they're happy and so on, but you don't know what's going on. You don't know what really what's going on between them at home. Um, so it's again came with narcissism. It's it's a lot about image. What it

58:05 looks at, it's what it looks like, if you will, um, publicly. The real and the ideal are usually very different things when it comes to to narcissism. Um, so I guess I just summarize that Cynthia by saying you you've you've really probably no real idea of what's going on there, but how they are with the new person is probably how they were with you when you first met. Okay? And the person before you and the person before you and maybe the person after this new person, you'll find it's a cycle. But not knowing the situation, I can't be 100% sure. Uh where I get to

58:55 um Oh, yes, Dar. Thank you. Explained it very clearly. Thank you. You're welcome, Night Sky. Um glad I did. No. Uh, Carolina Tapia, if I've pronounced that right. Something that helped me in my healing journey was to interact with people in town kindly. The great majority of people are very decent and nice, and that allowed me to slowly be my true self. Carolina, that was a really I like that. Thanks for sharing that. is a really good thing to interact with people kindly.

59:42 A question that's come up a couple of times and I keep saying the antidote to toxic people are decent people. The question that's come up a couple of times are where are these decent people? Um well, I'm not saying that they don't exist and I'm not saying they're always easy to find, but what um they are there. And what I say to people sometimes is why doesn't it start with you being the decent person? Um, now just because you're decent, just because you're kind doesn't mean you're a doormat. No, not at all. It just means you're kind and decent and you have integrity and things like that. And the reason I say that is because sometimes we don't know. We just might be the decent person that someone else needs.

1:00:29 Okay? So, there is something to think about there. We just might be the decent person that someone else needs. they could be looking for someone that's just going to treat them with a bit of courtesy. Um, so yeah, people are out there. But I like that. Thanks for sharing that. Uh, to interact with people kindly. Great majority of people are very decent and nice and that allowed you to slowly be your true self. Thank you for sh was really good. Um, thank you for that. Um, oh, and I've just had a massive jump. Where did we get back to? I need to scroll back. Uh,

1:01:15 where did I get to? There was a question I saw a moment ago. Right. Right. I've got back to Carolina. So, that's where I was now. Angela's asking, "Why don't narcissists like it when you get angry? Is it because they see themselves as the source of your anger. Uh I I'm not quite sure why they why do they don't they don't like it when you get angry. I think it again it's it's a difficult one to answer. It might depend on the anger. It might depend on the situation as much as the person. Sometimes if you're being provoked to be angry, that might be exactly what they're looking for. They can point at your anger as evidence that you're, you know, threatening them or something. You're a horrible bad person.

1:02:01 Other times your anger it it might actually, believe it or not, it might intimidate them. Sometimes you might find that reaction again, you know, you raised your voice. You're being a horrible person to me. Um, that's interesting because they see themselves as a source of your anger. I think if they did, this is speculation, Angela, when I mentioned earlier on about the defense mechanisms, these things kick in. I talk about if I if I talk about their defense mechanisms, imagine this emotional suit of armor that's around them that will not allow reality in. The only stuff that's allowed in are the things that they approve of, the things that validate and collude with them.

1:02:48 Okay? the things that uh yeah the things they approve of anything else is rejected. Um so to see themselves as the source of your anger. Um, they if they're scratching their head and wondering why you're angry that they were flirting with your best friend or that they took your stuff without asking or they have been gossiping and you're finding I think that emotional suit of armor it is rejecting re rejecting that you should feel any kind of pain or anger at that they they just don't want to accept it. that emotional suit of armor will not let them will not let them do it. Um, so to

1:03:36 see themselves as the source of your anger, they I would guess they might see themselves as the source, but they don't understand or that they don't want to understand why you are angry, why you should be angry. Remember, especially if they I don't know, they bought you a coffee three years ago. Um, does does that not, you know, does that not wipe out all of the crap stuff they've been doing? Yeah, you you know what I mean? It's it's it's very delusional. Um, HR death's asking, "How are you this fine Sunday, Darren?" I am absolutely fine. Thank you for asking. I hope you're well. East Coast Cooler is asking, "Darren, I was wondering if you'd be interested in doing an

1:04:23 interview on my channel. I feel like it'd be great to get you on to get advice on dealing with cluster B personality types. East Coast killer, drop me a line. Absolutely. Um, give me a shout. We will maybe arrange something and we'll take it from there. Uh, and thank you very much for asking by the way. Uh, why it's still today? All right. Okay. Uh, red narcissists do exhibit quite a bit of paranoid behavior. If not to that extreme, then they're overwhelmingly consumed by what others think of them. Darren's invited to elaborate. Well, it depends on the narcissism largely what you find with grandiosity.

1:05:10 They believe they are special, superior, and so on. And if someone doesn't necessarily collude with them, they might just dismiss them. They are nothing. They are of no value. I don't care what that person has to say. But then there are others. Again, the grandiosity is still there, but it might be more internalized. And it is very, very important how others see them. Again, there is that split. You're either good or bad. You see me as wonderful. You see me as amazing. You see me as special. You see me as having some kind of value or utility or whatever. Um, and if you don't, there's something wrong with you. You're bad. uh if they weren't. It's not that they it's

1:05:57 like anyone else. Of course, to some degree, we're social creatures. We all care to some degree what people think of us. Remember, with narcissistic people, this is often ramped up through the ceiling. When we talk about this constant need for validation, that they are special and unique and amazing and no one's had it as tough as them or no one is as amazing as them. They need that validation. I think it goes a little further than that. It's collusion. They need people to collude to actually go along with it to live the fantasy with them. Again, that's the idealization. If they don't or if they deviate from the script, then yeah, that's when they they become all bad and so on.

1:06:43 Um, I suppose I would suggest as well if they didn't care what others thought about them to some degree, why do they not want other people talking about their bad behavior? Why is it always done privately? Why is it always done when no one's watching? So, there has to be something there. Pinkster is asking, "Is there covert splitting?" Yep, it's exactly the same thing. It's exactly the same thing regardless of how it manifests. Splitting is something we all do. I gave the example at the beginning about liking a song by Oasis but not liking Oasis. Okay. Um that was very hard for me to reconcile for a long time until I grew up and matured a bit and recognize that you know I don't have to like them

1:07:29 to recognize they're talented musicians you know and they can put out a good song once in a while. Um, with narcissism they can't do that. Narcissistic people find that very very difficult to do that. Uh, all right. Get to just jump. Captain Commander, why do they see us as bad if we don't obey them? I would say if you're not validating, if you're not colluding with them, if you're not the version of you that they have created, if they if you're not doing what they expect you to do, like maybe mind readad, preempt their whims, their moods, things like that. Yeah, that's that's when you

1:08:15 become bad if you don't obey them. As well, and I've mentioned this many times, they might say on so many different live streams and videos, they might say something like, "You're disrespectful. You're not respecting me." It's a very skewed version of respect. Um, they seem to think that respect means obedience and compliance. Uh, you have to see it my way. You have to do do it the way I'm saying. You know, everything has to be the way I've imagined it in my head. If not, then you're disrespecting me. which is why again, you know, if you're not that version of you they have created, they might believe you've lied to them and you've betrayed them somehow. Um, let me get to

1:09:02 Angela's asking, "Are people who only love you when you agree with them narcissists?" Uh, I would say not necessarily. Um, they only love you if you agree with them. Um sometimes you might find with a narcissistic person if you keep on agreeing with them they start to despise you because they see you as weak and they despise weakness and vulnerability. So there can be something there. Other times, um, people can disagree and they can disagree passionately, but they don't actually hate each other. Um, depending on how the argument goes,

1:09:48 I guess. Um, they can generally reconcile things. So, not not necessarily Angela. I'd say the opposite could be true. Yeah. As long as you just keep on complying, then maybe they they're fine with that. Yeah. But there can be cases where the more you give in, they demand you comply them, they demand you collude with them, but the more you do that, they start to lose respect for you because they see it as weakness. It's a difficult one to navigate, and as always, there's never a one-sizefits-all answer. Uh earlier today, Darren, yes, Darren has explained in the past that a narcissist

1:10:34 cares too much about what what others think of them. Bit sad really must be completely exhausted at life. Well, it is um if you imagine if you imagine you go out with someone um you're maybe at a social event, you're sitting in a bar or restaurant and you're talking to someone who has really deeply ingrained narcissism, narcissistic personality disorder. You're talking to them now. They're looking at you and they're listening to what you're saying and they're trying to read how are you seeing them? Uh what are you thinking of them? What's your tone of voice and all the rest of it? But while they're doing that, they're thinking of this person over here.

1:11:20 Do I look cool as as I'm listening? Do I look as if I'm thoughtful and attentive to this person over here? Do I look attractive to, you know, the waiter or whoever who's over there? Do I look as if I'm important? So there con there can be this constant trying to read everything. Um so yeah, I just imagine the amount of energy um that would take. You know, I go into a daydream sometimes whenever um you know, my other half is asking me a question and I'm sort of like my mind's wandering as she's doing it, you know. Um I I I think that must be exhausting. Um, yeah, trying to do more than one thing at once

1:12:07 really confuses me. And yet they do it with everybody around them. Uh, is the zero sum game a result of the splitting? Yeah, I think it is. I think it can be the zero- sum game. It's not just I have to win the argument. I have to utterly and completely defeat you as well. So, yeah, the zero sum game. the um it's all or it's nothing. Um it's not that there is new information. It's not that we could both be right, different perspectives on the same thing. No, it's um winning isn't enough. It's like I have to absolutely annihilate in order to feel really good. So that can be Yeah.

1:12:53 Um, what do you Oh, I've just jumped. Uh, I just jumped again. Right. Hold on. Right. Okay. Oh, let's do a I usernames. I don't even know if I pronounced them properly. YouTube has a feature that translates the language for you. It's called autodubbing. Oh, that's interesting. Do I do that or would they do that? Or if they the the viewer, would they click on that? That's something I'll look into. That's interesting. I saw that there's an AI thing that will translate it, but I was wondering, does that mean I have to can

1:13:39 I just upload maybe uh subtitles or something, or would I have to upload every video in about two or three different languages? Cuz that would be a bit hard work for me. It's hard enough putting out one video a week, sometimes two. Um Shan is saying, "I think it's good when people can admit their wrongdoings and accept help." Yeah, that's called humility. Um I, you know, let's make humility again. Um yeah, let's bring it back. That's recogn All that is is recognizing we don't know everything. There are people can do things that we can't. They have information we don't have that may be highly might be more accomplished in a certain area than we are. That's all it is. It doesn't mean that we're

1:14:26 assuming we're no good at anything. Um Angela saying, "I hate men who like cryptocurrencies and all of them are bad to me. Is that a deal breaker or am I splitting?" Angela, I do not know. I know nothing about cryptocurrencies. Sadly, I will never be a wealthy man. U which is a bit crap because I would like to live the life of a millionaire. Um but you don't want to hear me whine on about that. Um I don't know anything about cryptocurrencies, so I don't know the kind of people who would be into it. If you're saying all of them are bad to you, I really don't know. Is that a deal

1:15:11 breaker or am I splitting? Um, again, not knowing anything about

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