Зачем Сталин устроил голод после войны? Рассказывает историк Александр Гогун

0:00 [music] Good evening dear friends, this is the program Sasha, What are you talking about? I will host it today, and in an unusual format, firstly, not live, and secondly, our guest today is historian Alexander Gun. Hello, I don’t know how. You said that you are not a Russian historian, from St. Petersburg or Berlin, as you call yourself. You left 19 years ago. I am originally from St. Petersburg and live permanently in Berlin. So, it would probably be more accurate to say Berlin historian. Alexander and I met on the Internet on Facebook. I read his works. I will definitely read some of the others. It

0:46 seemed to me that since he ended up in Warsaw, it would be interesting for you to talk to him and see. Alexander, in my opinion, you are doing something very important. You are especially deeply involved in Stalin’s preparation for a possible third world war. But in all your interviews, you say that you are looking for patrons and sponsors who will help you publish a book and further develop this topic. Tell me why this is happening at all, in my opinion, during the time when the largest war in Europe since the Second World War is going on, when everyone is talking about the arrival of a third world war. war It seems to me to such people How should you stand in line with money for such research in my opinion

1:33 they are very relevant why is this happening that you should look for money yourself Well, theoretically there should be lines on both sides on one side of the Kremlin they tried to hit on me twice so to speak, both times with a carrot without a hint of any kind of blackmail but I know that in such cases the carrot usually has a hook hidden and I did not want to swallow it in 200 not in 2017 the first time in Moscow there was one KGB veteran who offered cooperation the second time aiding was offered right already in Vienna right at a historical conference I also immediately politely said no What about the other side, it As such, as a single whole, there is

2:19 no There is a Western Academic world where incompetence, unfair competition are encountered lobbying is very well developed including lobbying of the Kremlin But those lobbyists who are against the Kremlin very often want to somehow distort the past or even the present And not the financing of science, so I was forced to resort to crowdfunding on fundraising for research and 1,000 euros - this is 200 man-hours for the work of my Assistant in

3:05 Moscow donated a person living in Galicia He asked not to mention his name, that is, a person in a country at war understands the importance of historical research and knows that a word is also a weapon that in the historical humanitarian sphere there is also a struggle between truth and lies and between truth and incompetence and or delusions and I hope that the book about how Stalin prepared for the Third World War will become a book with international resonance I can quite well mention some Belarusian stories in it Therefore, if someone knows through whom to get to sponsors, you can go to all the information you can find in the

3:53 description of this video contact me and we will discuss the details And my books are on the website go.org delivery to anywhere in the world Yes, a link to Patreon Alexander on his website we will put his data in the description of this video Tell me Since you have touched upon the Western Academic Community when Well, you are engaged, one might say, in the same Theme that you are developing the same theme that such mastodons were developing there, one might say like Victor Suvorov Mark Solonin and when let's say you wrote your first book icebreaker at the end at the beginning it was still possible to somehow talk about the fact that these are some kind of

4:39 fantasies historical journalism As Sva haters said But after the secret protocol was revealed there young retro documents were revealed [music] which World War II as Stalin saw it Well I don't know anymore you can argue about some assessments but in terms of factual historical It seems to me that history is already over why there is a version about the Peaceful Soviet Union the creative work of peaceful Soviet people and even military sleeping airfields were peacefully sleeping that's why it is still alive not only there in the heads It is clear Kremlin

5:25 Surikov it is not even a question why in Europe to this day that topic that you are developing with Solonin and with Or remains Well such an almost marginal Topic of people who are trying to become city lunatics not only in Western Europe And unlike Central Europe but also in North America and Australia there are three stereotypes in relation to the Soviet Union, partly even similar to stereotypes in relation to Putin's Russia, and they are deeply ingrained in the minds of a large number of Western researchers. The first of them is connected with the fact that this is a kind of egocentrism, the transfer of personal experience in which people grew up, this is a

6:12 market economy, first of all, democracy, and secondly, on the object of study, in this case, Stalinism, and Stalin is subconsciously credited with the same motivations that Truman had, and so on, in the best case, Hitler, although here too, the parallel often leads into some strange wilderness because Hitler had a limited expansionist program, Stalin had a global one, and that is, Hitler planned to restore the living space of the German nation there. And Stalin to take over the world. Yes, mainly in Europe, Hitler had territorial claims about East Asia, Latin America, of course, he did not even dream of,

7:00 and Well, for example, because of this non-critical transfer, extra dogs are hung on Stalin, even specifically to this day in the West there is a myth that Stalin at the end of his life was preparing the deportation of Jews to the Far East East it arose myth it arose at about the same time on the basis of the fact that a number of people who fell under persecution of the USSR ended up in the West or met with representatives of the West and they said that there is still not a single document confirming that even the beginning of some ideas some outlines of developments for the implementation of this plan

7:47 and so far it is somehow adhered to by a small group Well about the Second World War there is also no Stalin's order which orders regarding from the first year Very many of them were identified all in the nineties and summarized published How to say generalizing work Tyukhova Stalin's missed chance it is strange from a political point of view but as for its scientific component if you filter it it is impeccable and [music] stereotype conditionally speaking good Stalin That is them and he is decomposed into three

8:34 components this is modernization to these here excessive investment in the military-industrial complex and in fact not excessive because we know that it was forty-first year almost withstood the brink of defeat and so on and the second stereotype regarding the Soviet Union and Putin's Russia passive country here the West all the time it is A priori from within active and proactive it is the subject of international relations and the

9:20 East in this case the Soviet Union or Putin's Russia is passive inert or reacting reactive Where does this this element of the West come from we are active everyone else copies our actions are learned from our mind or somehow responds to our actions this is such a clash in this case this stereotype about the East as an object it gave rise to two in the West completely two false ideas about Stalin about the Soviet Union about its

10:08 operational plans this is the first counterattack to the enemy's attack we will respond with a double attack this is simply a mechanical repetition of Stalin's propaganda of the thirties as we know in Finland the Red Army is a preemptive strike And here too the answer is hidden the Soviet side as if reacts not How should it have reacted to the invasion to the concentration of troops from the outside but all the same in both cases Stalin is presented as the defending side and most importantly the responding Why Yes

10:56 because the Soviet Union could not organically show initiative only the West can have initiatives Here is the third stereotype that the Soviet Union was such a wretched place that its leader could not even think of attacking the Mighty rich intelligent West But such a point of view will have to be created when looking at the majority even in the West understands its irrationality because even if we assume that Stalin was weak even a weak person can make mistakes overestimate his strength and underestimate the

11:42 enemy because of these three stereotypes Suvorov's discovery it went to the West with such a creak And if you look at the present moment What do you think here is Suvorov's version corned beef yours it has a chance to become Central or rather will remain on the sidelines a lot depends on those who speak about this fact unfortunately in his time Suvorov he firstly published his book in Germany for the first time in the right edition and in Germany by clothes they not only meet this secondly the design of his

12:31 texts it would seem for our eye for the ear Where in Eastern Europe Belarus Russia Ukraine it does not matter millions go its circulation in the West such design of the text it is so I used the jargon of video bloggers does not enter into the masses and especially into the heads of the university academic world of journalists and so on the text must be formatted bring Look how they did it and present it in the same way I hope that my book about the third world war which I am trying to format will sound exactly in this way in the West Moreover, there is no such

13:17 confrontation when two evils are separate People think that if we present Stalin as an aggressor, then this indirectly or even directly reduces Hitler's aggressiveness And in this case, the Soviet Union in the late forties early fifties planned an attack on the United States of the demographic world and I really hope that this discovery uh it will go to the masses easier As for the general situation, it is probably more profitable now than it could have been 10-15 years ago but so far over the last 2 years of a full-scale war of some kind of

14:02 ideological or political decommunization of the Western academic And in general the intellectual mainstream We do not see we do not observe either in France or in Germany, for example, or in other countries I live in Berlin I have a park named after Telman with a monumental concrete statue of this nearby Stalin's accomplice and a lot of different parties quite recently here are the leftists who broke away, in fact, the communists, they invariably gain a

14:49 good percentage of votes in the eastern regions of Germany, that is, of course, this situation can be reversed, but the conditions are not bad, but for now there is such a direct tendency to reassess the Soviet past of the Soviet foreign policy No Yeah And tell me then Let's move on to your research Tell me why you became interested in this topic Why exactly the Third World War Why the Arctic and the Third World War I came to it completely by accident when I read the book by Khlevnyuk Oleg Khlevnyuk, a leading researcher on Stalinism not only in Russia but in general standing on planet Earth, a leading investigator of Stalin's

15:35 biographer and his book was published in the PM year in Russian and in English and I noticed in it this is the core flaw that foreign policy aggressiveness is underestimated The Soviet Union has a preparation with some incredible persistence repeated after the Second World War, then those mistakes it was said there that he made during the First Five-Year Plan This is meant industrialization famine That's the same thing he did then, so I see somehow it looks very similar to the fact that he then began to prepare for the Third World War, not the second, I looked at other publications, there are some in the

16:20 West, there are little-known ones, in Russia this fact is very, very little known, unlike for a year, at least in the territory of Eastern Europe, now almost everyone in Russia knows about Suvorov's discovery, even among ordinary readers and listeners, but little is known about this fact. And I decided, based on this book by Khlevnyuk, on which he wrote a critical review, but Oleg himself did not cool off at all, but on the contrary, we were in correspondence with him later, I decided that this topic was promising, and if the situation allows, then I hope

17:07 that in the near future I will write a book about this, that is, these post-war years that lasted Well, you can say a decade because the shooting in Cherkassk occurred under Khrushchev, you consider this not the consequences of the war, but the second collectivization, the second famine, rather because hunger and collectivization were related phenomena, but still, this is not the same thing the famine was also a direct consequence of grain procurements, that grain was taken from the peasants and not collectivization As such, that is, even in the conditions of collective agriculture, the damaged economy of Russia and Ukraine.

17:53 Here at the beginning of the three, it could feed the country, feed the peasants. The famine occurred because Stalin took grain from them, and by the way, back then, the USSR had grain reserves, strategic granaries. The Motherland had the same situation in 1946-47. There are two studies by one American author and one Russian author, winter, which showed that this gold had nothing to do with the post-war devastation, victims, losses, and even with the drought that was then and about which the central newspapers were cutting down. It was completely artificial. Moreover, Stalin encountered resistance from

18:41 this policy of gold in his inner circle, for which he simply scolded Khrushchev. Khrushchev thought that he would be shot, and Kosygin was also scolded personally by Kosygin. When he left his office, the whole floor of his heels was shaking. In particular, so that for a pittance for yesterday's food, the Red Army soldiers who returned home were given to the state. loot in Germany and other territories of European countries in forty than forty-fifth years, which is what happened, he also collected money, labor resources for the third world war, the shooting in Novocherkassk here

19:30 was already to a significant extent from his point of view more erroneous than criminal, Stalin's mistakes were sometimes Some call Stalin's mistakes were not mistakes, they were cold-blooded calculation, a crime But Nikita Sergeevich, as is well known, was distinguished by voluntarism and his Agricultural policy under Stalin's conditions, this is what ROMAS led to such peculiar results But between Khrushchev and Stalin there was a very big difference in the sense that Stalin systematically and systematically led the matter precisely to a head-on collision with NATO, he was preparing for the third world war, Khrushchev, when he had already received full

20:18 power, rather sought to avoid it for a number of reasons, of course, he loved life more, than power, on the one hand, on the other hand, the Rocket Age entered into life, which made nuclear war meaningless Whoever shoots first will die second this is not even the First victory, therefore, global expansion during Khrushchev and Brezhnev was carried out differently than under Stalin. They abandoned the idea of ​​a direct strike against the United States and decided to advance the Third World in pieces from Asian and

21:04 African Latin American countries, establish there their own independent allied regimes, surround the developed countries of Western Europe, and force them to capitulate in this way because if they build a wall around them, it will be difficult for these countries to stew in their own juice, including because there is little industry, few resources, especially in Western Europe, they imported everything from abroad. But Stalin was the only person who twice came close to capturing the world. This is known in 1941 that the strike against Europe was conceived as a devastating

21:52 blow to the Third Reich for Hitler. Well, at the end of the 1940s and the beginning of the 1950s, T in Eurasia at that time was rather a technical issue, which the American side also recognized in its assessments of the Soviet Union, that nuclear bombings would not solve the issue, at least in the initial stage of the war. Tell me more collectivization industrialization second What other signs do you generally in Stalin's first five-year plan with so to speak, one can say post-war but of course he began to prepare it

22:37 for the third world war in fact even before the beginning of the Second attack on the United States But here directly this is forty-third forty- fourth year when a lot of his steps were aimed at this and from forty-fourth to soroku year in fact with his distracting actions he helped mautzdu con invasion of the sino-uyghur autonomous region soche year so he distracted the forces of changsha from the confrontation with mau reduced his authority and paved the way for further arms deliveries to the bottom further actions on the invasion of northern Iran on the blockade of

23:25 Berlin on fire gre in the civil war all these were actions to distract primarily the United States but also their ally England and other Western countries from the civil war in China which he masterfully kindled in particular here forty-fifth year the invasion of manju captured a huge arsenal of the kwantung army of the Japanese by agreement with the allies who epic conference in Yalta and then in the pods Stalin had no right to transfer weapons to the communists what did he say then and

24:12 he said that these weapons were simply stolen from us by the communists and the Key That's how they say now critically important weapons this is the body weapons tanks artillery ammunition for them that year he received just at that moment from Stalin with the help of which Chiang Kai-shek won when the West was busy implementing the Truman policy the Truman doctrine the doctrine of containment they contained Stalin in the West and he gradually submitted to the

24:59 liberation campaign to Gibraltar and in order to draw forces primarily to America and other Western countries from Western Europe he began expansion strengthening in the east Vietnam support Ho Chi Minh who came to Moscow by the way to bow also the most important war in Korea he lured the USA there after which he made a speech to his satellites in the Kremlin in January of the fifty- first year about the fact that we have superiority over capitalism for about 3-4 years we should use these 3-4 years to create an army e good armies that is 3-4 years It

25:47 turns out that our war should have started in 1953 or 1954 and the American estimates of the same January 1951, the Joint Staff Committee, they coincide in time There they really said the next critical period is 2-3 years I quote if the war starts then this does not mean that we will lose it But this means that it will be difficult for us to win it Well, fortunately, we have no way to check who was right in their estimates anymore Therefore, the apocalypse between the chemical biological weapons industry

26:32 and what Khrushchev carried out, this is Ol, Khrushchev's entire policy can be described in one word, this is the demilitarization of the Soviet Union and in many many areas they took a really deep breath and, in principle, the world did not end up in the nightmare of this thermonuclear Apocalypse When I was a child I admired the personality of Valery Chkalov I reread Probably everything that could be found about him, some things several times, but I was honestly least interested in these records and I looked strangely at this

27:20 flight through Atlantic on the pony itself is made For what fly through the pole and so on And do you think that the invasion of America was prepared precisely through the Arctic Stalin began a systematic advance to the North Pole actually from the third year when there were no funds for It was precisely its development that was so intensive then reconnaissance was underway including ice reconnaissance aircraft were landing already then over

28:06 then With the development of technology it became more and more simple and by the end of the forties thanks to testing there were high large aviation units I translate this into human language it is to send 600 aircraft to the Arctic at a time and from there then bomb the USA or a cover aircraft it was technically then already possible the significance was definitely had advancement

28:55 along the Northern edge of E vrazii Northern Sea Route but the invasion of course was being prepared including Alaska But with such a shoulder so to speak of supply E it was an action rather distracting and disturbing e not to defend Europe And if the Russians from the North arrange an invasion Let's focus on defending the continent and then already during the third world war to refine the missiles and already with US missiles physically destroy there was another second development which was after

29:41 Stalin's death stopped this is the so-called king trape it was more than 20 m in length it should have been and one and a half meters in thickness the missile should have been thermonuclear and as we know the main megalopolises of the USA with the exception of only Chicago is located as Different coast here it was planned that in this way to wash them away or blow them up somehow here these here Megalopolis tsunami tsunami Sakharov partly recalls this that such an action was Here but missiles and torpedoes These are the two main means by which Stalin then planned to end this war but died As for Chkalov, he was a drunkard and a rowdy by Yes to me these

30:27 moments are more I liked the code about his hooliganism, flying under bridges and it is strange to expect prudent and cautious behavior from a test pilot in general because it is clear that such a job is associated with an incredible number of risks Stalin also understood this very well, so he tolerated his antics, including drunken conversations during a reception in the Kremlin when he interrupted the leader himself Papanintsev, so to speak, if he did not humiliate, then belittles us Arctic pilots will fight like this in a war as we ourselves do not know but when he flew to the USA they really met him there and he talked about the fact that

31:13 we must live in peace And in the Kremlin he made completely different speeches it is clear that this was not on his own initiative he understood and knew more precisely he was instructed at least in the USA but this certain naivety it was characteristic of a significant part of the American elite but often they forget about cynicism and about business interests what many say like Western politicians Many do not understand Putin What kind of rose-colored glasses do they have sometimes it is so but sometimes they are completely like that their own selfish interests of big business with which of course they are connected one way or another they

32:00 dictate the Semitic Well, the Semitic cooperation with dictators in this sense the situation was similar then and now Yeah and that is, you say about the fact that for example there is a very beautiful Chelyuskintsev Park in Minsk all this romance associated with the conquest of the North uh with the flight expeditions it was precisely the preparation for the third world war the third world war and the strike through the North Pole this activity Soviet it was noticed by American intelligence in their assessments there is already forty-

32:46 seventh year forty-eighth there is information that an invasion of Alaska is possible and for two weeks they will certainly hold our main bases there In addition, this led to such a peculiar military alliance between Canada and the United States because up to and including the Second World War Canada as a former part of Britain it was guided in its military cooperation by British military standards I mean calibers equipment and so on and since the year to unify with America their military Armed forces to make

33:35 similar In addition, they divided the Arctic into zones of responsibility and there they monitored Soviet activity, that is, this advance through the North, it had a significant impact [music] on the US defense doctrine and, and you haven't overestimated his foresight. Because those actions you're talking about, yes, of course, to establish control over China is a great victory. But on the other hand, they led to the creation of NATO, to this alliance between the US and Canada, and so on and so forth. This is a multi-move game that became the

34:22 front line. I have collected his statements published both then in the 1930s and then not yet published. He always saw the US as the main enemy, and spoke openly in the 1930s and tacitly in his inner circle in the 1930s. Moreover, he made such a phrase: the US, which provided more than half of the consumption and

35:08 production of the entire world, that is, he perfectly understood all this power and that in order to crush them, you first need to obtain comparable resources. It's clear. Socialism has the advantage of the resources of any country, just in the military sphere. Let people they are dying of hunger But we will produce the weapons and ammunition that we need Under capitalism this is impossible In principle because of this Socialism was introduced It was a tool for preparation Here is some kind of planned economy A tool for preparation

35:59 But it was possible to capture Eurasia and on condition of the creation of NATO Here are these American estimates of 1951 that Soviet reserves in such quantities were accumulated and distributed in such a way that even in the event of a successful American nuclear counterattack we will lose Eurasia It is not in our interests to be on the territory of Eurasia because the Soviets have an advantage in manpower and technology And this is a very important caveat that even in the event of a successful nuclear counterattack Because since 1949 troops entered the

36:44 Nick 15 which at that time was able to shoot down everything that was flying on the planet with the exception of one American model of bomber The Korean War showed not a bomber Sorry fighters and fighters cannot fly so far there is simply not enough fuel to cover the bombers that bomb the Soviet Union And then there was also the MiG 15 others modifications of the MiG-17 Bis and in the fifty-fourth year this ring of defense around Moscow was created this missile complex Strela which could also shoot down everything that flies

37:29 above the ground that is E success in any case the absolute success of the American nuclear counterattack was in question then including for the Americans themselves and how uh In general, as Stalin thought that the war with NATO is a difficult task but at least in the first part of it it can be successful And having already acquired the resources of Europe including intellectual they can again as after the Second World War steal use for the development of these missiles and fill America Especially since the Russians in what only were ahead of the Americans This is just in the

38:15 intercontinental ballistic missile by one year they created it earlier of course it was not ideal but still there was a small advantage and in such matters the advantage is not in a year is enough in a few days or even one day that is the chances at that time were ambiguous Yeah But you are talking about cynicism there Elite politicians business in part in part Elite politics business Yes but when Chkalov flew to America he was met there simply as I don't know as an alien who flew with peaceful intentions less It is known that in the ninth year there was exactly the same flight it was the only one that was not nonstop they also set

39:02 some kind of record there with a landing on the island of Urt I think Yes he went like that from Moscow further to the Pacific Ocean through Siberia then [music] to Kamchatka then to the Lida Islands further south San Francisco Los Angeles or Settle San Francisco Los Angeles Chicago and uh New York at that time there were no diplomatic relations between the USA and the Soviet Union nevertheless these pilots were met there simply as some kind of gods uh Well and the meeting why did this always happen admiration evokes

39:48 courage bravery uh success in America in America the cult of success here are really successful people and action on the other hand which seems to somehow do something not very well nationalized Yes and emigrants something they talk about terror but in general Here they are They want to be friends with us they flew to us with a peace mission this is a sporting achievement and certainly incredible entertainment for the Voters of books the mystery of Stalin's death Avtorkhanov puts forward a version that Stalin did not Doni nuclear weapons unlike Bey

40:34 for example and his other associates and they precisely because of there for one of the reasons because of fear of being drawn into another world war already nuclear decided to remove him How do you Look at it without fire But in this case the fire smoldered and did not blaze Stalin in public in every possible way in public in every possible way belittle nuclear weapons in conversation both in open conversations and in speeches

41:20 to the masses interviews with journalists and in conversations with his associates and especially with satellites China and Central Europe when belittles that they underestimated he understood perfectly well that this weapon is feared and people need to be reassured that the Devil is not as scary as he is painted Especially since really Soviet e military they were at the site of the atomic bomb explosion in Japan then they investigated everything, made calculations and said that the explosion of exactly the same atomic bomb as in Hiroshima, not in cities, but in the conditions of a front-line operation,

42:06 it leads, in case of success, again to the death of one battalion of soldiers or one tank battalion. Well, it is clear that for Stalin, who during the Second World War, the death of a tank battalion or even more so an infantry battalion, but the news did not write about him, it was some kind of straw forward to victory. As for his comrades, now there is Rubenstein's book, Stalin's Last Days, there is basically nothing sensational there, these are just these events, they are very well [music] documented under the article, it is

42:52 formulated differently in different codes, failure to provide assistance or abandonment, but this is still not such a serious article as intentional murder and there was no intentional murder, abandonment in danger, because of which it happened, now we are sitting down, we are transported into the head of Bereya and Khrushchev, Stalin presumably fell ill, time goes by, something strange is happening to him, the guards report. We have option that we remove him from power in this way and uh then we will be in trouble the second option if the doctors

43:38 do it we call a doctor and he does arrange a nuclear apocalypse then there is a good chance that we will die and these here It is not clear what they were more afraid of here is one prospect that he is a light performance these two fears they slowed them down in making a decision And then when more time passed a third option began to appear that he himself will come to his senses And then he will say so not to provide assistance And in this case there was already a complete guarantee that he would kill everyone and then they decided to

44:25 help I will introduce fears here are threats out of a sense of their own safety But since he had a stroke And this is exactly the kind of disease when very quick help is needed the doctors could not do anything he was dying in terrible agony Although even there on the mortal sea did not lose firstly a sense of humor was Khrushchev remembered that there was a picture hanging nearby about feeding lambs and he made it clear Now you are feeding me the same way as the one in the picture and then he did not lose his ability to work his last gesture was threatening he was

45:11 intimidating in a state before dying in a few seconds it is difficult to resist parallels with today's dm [music] the view is different they have nuclear weapons and many say that sooner or later the Third World War will begin all the same you see here the similarity between Putin and Stalin he himself maybe sees Stalin in some form here are the roots from there he is similar to Stalin in terms of complete cynicism those who paint him as some kind of crazy reactionary he himself portrays himself as such plays a mask

45:58 puts on a mask plays the fool including in order to intimidate including in order to say I will press the red button I am stupid Hold me Seme long ago the nuclear doctrine of deterring Russia is nuclear vomit in the nineties an agreement was reached that the US and Russia can have nuclear warheads this is of course a huge number of weapons because each of these nuclear warheads is much more powerful than Russia has about 20 more kherosim what is the

46:43 technical point in this advantage of 20 warheads when your enemy has no technical point at all but it gives the opportunity to say his propagandist we have weapons nuclear weapons number one in the world the most powerful nuclear club China has even less than the USA But they have enough because nuclear weapons from the end of the fifties to the present moment are a deterrent function Whoever shoots first will die second Putin does not want to die as well as his entourage this is not a party of extremists who seized power in Russia in the early twenties at the beginning of the twentieth century these are all cynical servants that is if

47:31 Stalin really wanted to take over the whole world Putin wants not to be interfered with stealing petrodollars within the Russian Federation that is why he is also conducting an expansionist one will climb because there is no strength if he cannot even cope with Ukraine the prospect of this war Let's hope that Ukraine will be able to fight back which will already be a rather painful development option for him and I am very pleased to make a prediction that there will be no third world war because if I I'll be wrong no one can accuse me of

48:16 incompetence anymore but I actually think so Yeah one more pa World moss Lara two new camps in the world usv Western-style democracy and the global south as they say do you see a danger in this or will there be some kind of Peaceful existence how will it develop here rather one can say nelob in the political East east because the countries what is commonly called the global south they clearly do not

49:02 pose any threat in the international arena for Western Europe and the USA threats they exist in this Here is the axis of evil this is what we will start with the Western hemisphere Cuba Syria Iran Russia China North Korea and softly Allied to them Taliban Afghanistan this these territories this regime they constantly erupt some kind of aggression themselves that if democracy

49:48 develops calmly especially Putin in this regard the second object for comparison of citizens in this case Russia but in this Alliance to politicize the strongest and most powerful This is China and when will the revolution happen there I'm not saying if exactly when analogue day of the year in the Soviet Union because many pay attention to territorial changes but it is not so important

50:33 changes in the political system are important the collapse of the system in China when the revolution happens the wind of change will be so powerful that most likely the Domino effect will go not only to Pyongyang Hanoi but also to Moscow Minsk And why do you think that the revolution in China is inevitable for three reasons [music] it will happen faster than in Russia As I suppose its inevitability is clear because humanity moves slowly uncertainly sometimes looking back with some

51:21 rollbacks but not from Freedom to slavery from slavery to freedom these are the reasons for inevitability But the reasons for the speed they are not so obvious Or what will happen soon in Moscow in Beijing but if we dive into East Asian realities then the first of them is that the regime in the PRC it is more bony and clumsy than even Pushchino Putin has despite all his some kind of firmness and cruelty flexibility two steps forward one step back there is some kind of elections even a certain competitiveness remains It is clear that some opposition candidates are

52:08 noted but still the authorities some kind of candidates are putting on a show and at different levels the Internet is not controlled not completely in the PRC there are no elections at all not even a word of a completely free Internet and a one-party system like in the Soviet Union in Russia there is still a multi-party system albeit some kind of overflow for many reasons in fact in Russia they are still looking for authoritarianism And in China there was and remains totalitarianism this is the first reason that makes the system in the PRC more fragile than in Russia the second reason is that the UKN Less

52:56 resources And in terms of per capita population it is many times less because in the PRC the population is 11 times larger than in Russia no 10 exactly 10 times exactly 10 times and in Russia consider that in Russia there are 150 million 140 140 And there 1.4 Well many consider both figures to be overstated overstated but still Well well in 10 times, even if it is 10 times, it is still many times more, and Russia has more resources, so it is impossible to do it like Putin, to produce nothing, to fold one leg over the other and to squander oil and gas and to do nothing for decades, to steal dollars and live happily. And in China, the struggle for resources is their policy on one of the

53:42 main lines of foreign policy because they do not have enough of their own. Moreover, with such an ineffective economy, by and large, and the third reason is the presence of an example for comparison, in fact, there are even four of these examples because there are still at the moment through normal China, this is the most important thing, this is Taiwan, which already lives, in fact, richer than Germany, this is Singapore, which is generally ahead of the rest of the planet, this is Hong Kong and Macau, they entered the PRC but retain significant internal economic autonomy, one of the highest levels in the world. We have next to us this is the PRC, which is not

54:28 becoming the norm because the Chinese simply live there more. They look at how the Chinese can live without communist despotism, and this example will sooner or later influence them. This is this. distant hope and China's share in the world economy it is significantly higher than the share in the world economy of the Soviet Union At the end of the war if a revolution happens there or rather when it happens the entire axis of evil will fly apart Well, like in a fairy tale Well, always The option of the square remains

55:18 even kN to a significant extent evolves would years ago since then unprecedented protests took place on the territory of the PRC two waves three waves this is in Hong Kong the umbrella revolution then in the same Hong Kong 9 years later the biggest protests against the extradition law a million took to the streets this is a million Didn't go anywhere They have quieted down for now but are waiting in the wings and the third wave of protests because of covid the restriction that took place in mainland China is against quarantine in all three cases or rather in the

56:03 second and third the authorities did not use tanks or any bloody reprisals but backed down the law on tradition was revised a little bit in other places the quarantine was canceled which cannot [applause] nothing can but push people in similar situations to similar measures Look if we spoke out against the quarantine and we were not shot then maybe after our savings burn up when we invested them in real estate mortgage construction shared But then it all went bankrupt maybe we should also go out into the streets now and such protests have already been and now the economic crisis

56:49 that sings N he is by court order in relation to the demographic policy of one child but the nomenklatura love money very much and even more they love their lives and they spent astronomical sums to Study and understand why the collapse occurred in the Soviet Union And how not to do this but also obviously the experience of the Soviet transformation that where the authorities did not take radical measures Then this same authorities calmly these same people lived happily all the nineties even longer someone retired someone went into

57:36 business someone went into politics and calmly re-elected by completely democratic methods sometimes changing ideology sometimes even leaving the previous communism that is people even the nomenklatura want to live most likely that in the event that the economy begins to collapse and people will take to the streets and the way it is sinking we are now essentially observing very different indicators these percentages of economic growth that China declares and which are often outwardly Observers also attribute to it well I will not say that it is intentional I treat this sde

58:25 because in foreign tourism in China it has not yet reached the Covid level the consumption of premium proteins is declining that is little by little the middle class which premium class proteins are seafood meat which in all revolutions in the main bourgeois revolutions plays the main role it lives little by little worse And we know many democrats there is no revolution in fact there was no bourgeoisie here are the singing Revolutions velvet revolutions plush revolutions in Central Eastern Europe in de deno year passed bloodlessly without any

59:13 bourgeoisie without any capitalists And in China there is a layer of these entrepreneurs very wide there are those businessmen who want power and the intelligentsia who wants Freedom one of your latest books is called Stalin's team tell me you were repelled from writing it by the events in Bucha or what is the nature of interest in this topic I approached this topic when they were when I began to be interested in the Ukrainian panic army looked at the Red partisans saw how these two phenomena differ with the external similarity of the phenomenon What Banderas is an

1:00:00 insurgent movement and Soviet Partisans and the events in Bucha in something Of course people took There are those who gave the order an example of events World War II manifestation of terror Partisans burning of entire villages extermination of civilians it was aimed including To intimidate the enemy including intimidate the most important civilian population as and obviously action in Bucha demoralization attempts to provoke embittered enemy so that he would not take

1:00:46 pale but on the contrary mocked them this creatures scha surrender So he says in the West look But we cannot supply You cannot supply weapons to the West to those who kill prisoners fortunately This is a provocation it failed in this sense a bloody provocation undoubtedly but dividing rule It would seem that everyone knows this policy from school benches it has been formulated for thousands of years This was this formula in Latin in the Middle

1:01:34 Ages but often nevertheless it proves its effectiveness even now Despite the fact that everyone knows it and I remember the fourteenth year when Ukrainians and Russians in Berlin shoulder to shoulder demonstrated against the seizure of Crimea against aggression in Donbass and since 2022 there is a certain chill between the Russian and Ukrainian communities there are joint events especially in the sphere of culture but political groups are already staying away I suppose

1:02:21 that this is not forever and they say that the enemy unites yes and when the nightmare with dictatorship and war will end alas we all and especially Ukrainian and Russian people will have a common enemy which already exists I will not be original I will say this is a very acute ecological crisis in order to overcome it its consequences will require the coordinated work of all mankind especially those people whose language is understandable to each other and whose language is understandable to all neighbors and

1:03:08 who live in close territory I really hope that later all nations will be able to save the Earth from ourselves Yeah Here we are now in Poland where Well the words Volyn Massacre are known Unfortunately to everyone you write it seems in the book about the forced mobilization of the Polish population by these partisans especially in Volyn What is the role of this red Partisan movement Well although it was not essentially a partisan movement most people were either abandoned or left in the territory that they were

1:03:54 professional Well, how professional professional military probably did not exist in the Soviet Union, but they were specialized military and not local rebels What is the role of this red movement Partisan in the Volyn massacre, this is also like dividing the powers, it was to sow enmity between Poland and Ukraine directly in provoking deliberate provocation of this massacre The Soviet side did not make a mark, but it was unintentional E provoking tension in the thirty-ninth year the Red Army comes to the territory of Western Ukraine, the

1:04:43 Poles were previously the ruling people and suddenly become a minority and the minority oppresses the government carries out conization including in the police in other local government bodies Bert, first of all, Ukrainians and Jews, some of the Ukrainians treat the Poles because of historical discord and also because of the oppression of the DH for three years, accordingly, the small Polish group is Ukrainian Although the Germans, the Poles are more

1:05:29 educated, they take more Poles, the occupation apparatus, the Poles remember what happened just that for the last two years hostility towards Ukrainians is contained in everyday life by those Ukrainians who also serve in the occupation apparatus abuse against Poles I found German documents When the Germans write that tension is growing very very strongly this is from the year and the end of the year sorok we analyze each case separately abuse against two peoples and punish those guilty of this at this moment comes the prosthesis of Kovpak and Saburov to Volyn Stalin's raid at the end of forty-second year

1:06:16 groups are thrown there Groovin understands that this is a protest potential was accumulating both against the Poles and against the Germans it can be switched to themselves and used by Soviet partisans this was one of the reasons why AUN called the police officers who are in German service into the forest the UPA is being created and in the general destabilization of forty-second forty- third the Soviet side played its role further when this Massacre began thanks to the strict head of the Ukrainian headquarters of the Partisan movement in essence between the Poles and the regional army

1:07:03 that is and the Soviet side Soviet partisans in essence such an Alliance arose regional that fueled the hatred of Ukrainians and Ukrainian nationalists to the Polish group that is, there was no deliberate provocation but this conflict was used and also involuntarily Why say involuntarily because in principle Poles ukraine ukraine party detachments coexisted It is clear there were frictions which by the way there was not between here from the current sny perspective it sounds strange in the Ukrainian partisan detachments there were two largest ethnic groups these are Ukrainians and the second is twice as small as Russians but there were no conflicts of any kind But between Poles Jews

1:07:50 and Voch SV Reya name Poles were not in the Ukrainian insurgent army and yes the Soviet side more often involuntarily and sometimes voluntarily uses more precisely or implements the principle of dividing power or involuntarily provokes some conflicts because totalitarianism in general it loves them having asked nothing to decide or dictatorships there is also objective tension here even now in a state of war this question arises and there is a very, very sharp controversy I hope that little by little it will be

1:08:36 achieved Decisions will be reached on the exhumation of Polish victims on the territory of Volyn so that they could be identified and buried later and in the assessment of official formulations regarding the events of these sad bloody or dramatic, and sometimes even criminal, on the territory of Poland and Ukraine in those years, but I assume that with the cessation of hostilities, the common enemy will be

1:09:22 replaced by peace and radicalization, inshallah I read the book by Nikolai Khokhlov, a man with a very interesting fate who was an artist and then became exactly the one you wrote about in Stalin's Commando was sent to the territory of Belarus to kill Vegel Ma Kuby, the then ter, and after his murder, in which he most likely did not take part, he went with a partisan detachment and waited there for Soviet troops and during these, I think, six months, how long he spent there, he saw so much that he became an adviser and eventually defected to the other side

1:10:11 you wrote a book I understand that based on what happened in Ukraine and what happened in Belarus during the occupation, there is a view on comparing Ukrainian and Belarusian Soviet partisans motives motives motives for Khoklov to become a defector they can be different but it is very likely that he looked at Western life and did not want to become a killer of a person living in the free world It is clear then the war and in those conditions it is

1:10:57 unlikely that he had any moral torment about attempts to kill Cuba And when you are essentially a peaceful person a civilian you get the task of destroying him who essentially does not shoot at the Soviet Union you look at the prosperous Western world free then probably you want to live in NM and as an artist as a person who wanted to create he chose Such a path to happiness to repent a sinner is more precious than a righteous man and in the partisan detachments of Belarus terrible things happened Oddly enough in Belarus which was simply beaten by

1:11:44 partisan detachments the percentage of the local population it was initially significantly lower than in Ukraine Although in Ukraine there were relatively few partisans if we look further Vitebsk former Eastern Poland the basis of the partisan detachments were either escaped prisoners of war from the camps or former encircled who settled in premakh in soper godu And when the Germans issued an order in the spring of sorok of the year these people they thought that for registration some

1:12:29 repressive measures would follow such as murder or a parcel in a concentration camp and so on it is very likely that the Soviet Agent such rumors somehow heated up and expanded people went into the forests and into the swamp began to hide it went and started spinning in Ukraine the growth of wavy partisan detachments a year later the end of forty-second beginning of forty-third year after Stalingrad and now in the summer of forty-second the struggle is in full swing Partisan on the territory from Baranovichi to the Vitebsk region and there even the front passed nearby or there was no front as such there

1:13:16 was a big hole they went there whole there and back How to say on the Soviet side they went there in whole detachments it was possible to drive as many As many people as you like sometimes this is what the leadership officers detachment commanders did mostly Russians the territory around was either hostile or passive Therefore in eastern Belarus those actions were carried out which did not happen in central-eastern Ukraine this burning so-called police villages do not exist Chernigov, Sumy region, Zhitomir region, Kiev region, not a single village that the

1:14:03 Ukrainian Red Partisans burned down And in the eastern eastern regions of Belarus there are enough of such villages and there were many more Belarusian Partisans than Ukrainian ones, but at the same time they were more passive VNO sat in place in the swamps and, on the orders of Ponomarenko, the head of the central headquarters of the Partisan movement, blew up the rails. Two of the most famous operations were this rail war and concert orders were completely stupid. The Ukrainian headquarters of the Partisan movement refused to take part in them precisely because of this. Because the order

1:14:49 was a strict order to blow up the trains that were passing on the rails and the efficiency was significantly higher. That is, how to say the number of trains overturned per unit of Tola Poche spent and therefore the Germans quickly repaired the rails. But it is more difficult to repair an overturned train and In addition, the Ukrainians were extremely active in conducting raids in the southern

1:15:35 steppe regions in the forest-steppe zones. transfer from Eastern Ukraine to Western and further even to Poland but then for political reasons they decided to Poland a lot of Partisans not to transfer Ukrainian but in two detachments x possibilities even the readiness of partisan commanders to go to Poland to Warsaw at that time it was already that is in some sense Ukrainian Partisans Soviet they Well maybe even more interesting today in Belarus not without the participation of Russian let's say historians of this purpose the

1:16:22 genocide is being promoted during the Second World War of course it is said there that it was done there by Belarusian patriots What are the white-red-white flags called now here are the Lithuanians Poles and Well anyone except the Red Partisans What do you think this is a mechanical replacement of the trip due to let's say the lack of their own ideological trip or will it be instrumentalism in the future when dictatorships talk about genocide It smells of blood for now Minsk is participating in the war

1:17:10 fortunately passively fortunately Belarusian units do not shed blood on the territory of Ukraine But it is possible that such ideological pumping is also caused by the desire in the distant future in convenient situation to include Belarusians directly in the war at the front Putin as by the way by the way Lukashenko loves like the Bolsheviks in their time plan A plan B program minimum program maximum And let's say Well I'm fantasizing tin until now

1:17:55 he strives for actually to destroy Ukraine to its complete ruin and not just to take away some territories he achieves this God forbid But why then the fraternal troops from Belarus do not march the Victors Having come to a ready-made option that after all the Belarusians will not be drawn into an active war and then this can be a good ideological support in the fight against all sorts of in quotes traitors Look the West has arranged genocide for us And you are now

1:18:44 cooperating with the West by the way this is still from the nineties when Lukashenko said that your invasion cost us a third of the population and to live Teach Well the Europeans were shocked because they were then equated with Adolf Hitler and genocide is very often used especially And even more often the word evil is used indisputable Hitler's policy was anti- Slavic spring he did not conduct there was terror there was terror including ethnically motivated to the fact

1:19:32 that as brutal as they fought in the east the Wehrmacht SS did not fight in other countries Although for example in Greece which was not a Slavic country also had a very large population very large losses of civilians due to the actions of the Anti-partisan Nazis and the active actions of the communist Partisans of Greece Well there were different Partisans including democrats the struggle eh here was very bloody at the same time if we take on more here is an adios propaganda brochure subhuman I read it from cover to cover I have it saved in a copy

1:20:18 there as subhumans are shown the Eastern Slavs also the territory of subhumanity in it the Baltic countries are neatly included in it that is it is presented there rather not as an outpost of Western civilization in the midst of this wild East but still a traumatized subhuman Bulgarians Slovaks but not Indo-Europeans in general these are Hungarians and even Muslims Turks that which

1:21:04 for the current German fascists are generally the enemy number one, therefore racism is antis Vyatka attitude to the conquered people was the Eastern Slavs he did not particularly favor Hitler but essentially did not carry out genocide It is possible that this is also an attempt to remove responsibility from the Soviet side for these provocative actions when they killed one German community from the village with a shot and then the Germans, as part of this cruel punitive policy, burned the

1:21:52 entire village and killed all the civilians The partisans deliberately acted in such a way as to provoke retaliatory excessive criminal actions by the invaders and this largely worked against the people not against the partisans but against the occupiers, but if we are talking about the fact that there was a genocide of Belarusians then the opposing side is exclusively to blame for everything Yeah Thank you, we had a visit from historian Alexander Gun, I remind you, a link to his patreon and contact information in the description If you want to support his

1:22:37 work, I urge you to do so Thank you for your attention Goodbye Goodbye [music]