0:00 So, let's face it, most arguments start because according to research, our inner child is having a fullblown emergency. Oh my god, Kai. It presisi sekali. Again, awareness the keyword of the of this episode. So, I mean, we can have this confrontation or, you know, discussion for like 3 hours and it goes nowhere. Exactly. Hello. Yes. Yep. Hello viewers and now welcome back to another episode of Interview. It is time for us to get back to life and conversations life of course with the big sisters here and thank you so much for those of you who are tuning in live who are who have subscribed on all of
0:46 the digital streaming platforms and I know a lot of you are actually waiting every Wednesday for our episodes to finally be released before we get to what we're going to be talking today please let me introduce my sisters we have KB what's Carol and Marita. Wow, guys. Do you feel like 2025 has been the year that's been emotionally draining? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. [tertawa] Oh, sorry. Oh yeah. Wow. That was thinking on my head. Yes. No. Emotionally draining because true. I just feel like 2025 was going full of plot twist. Full of plot twist. full of breakups as well as you can see in the media, right? Full of um discovery in a way, things unfolding,
1:34 moving parts, strategy changing, shedding, letting go happening with [tertawa] 2025. Well, I think is it's it's a year probably where everybody needs to sort of like go within and ask themselves like what is going on with me. So, time to reflect. Time to reflect. Time to reflect. It was a year of reflection because according to astrology though 2025 yes was the end of a n of a n or 10 year cycle. Oh itu apa artinya Kay? Jadi artinya untuk banyak orang ternyata ee mengakhiri siklus hidup dan perjuangan hidup 9 sampai 10 tahun terakhir. Seriusan? Yes. Diselesaikan tahun lalu untuk memulai dan become bigger and better. If
2:21 that's how you decide to rise after the challenge. Of course, so it all comes back to you. It all comes back to you. That's why the air feels a little bit more fresher now, right? Lihat dong matahari in kita gak pakai filter loh, Geng. Si [tertawa] love it. But you know what? I feel like when we are uh adapting to so many things happening around us, right? We're always confronted. We're always confronted to argue, confronted with feelings just, you know, everything is a confrontation. You open your phone, social media is a confrontation.
3:06 Confronting right? So, how do we deal with that? The world may be angry if they are still. Hopefully, you've let it go cuz it's 2026 but apparently we're here just to stay calm because the secret of confrontation is how do we feel about it? Right? Because we're all living in chaos. Yep. Confrontation feels like chaos if we let it feel like chaos. So apparently according to research twothirds of social media users report feeling exhausted or frustrated by political conversations they see online or global conflicts they news of global conflicts they see online setting the stage for yeah current polarized environment. Every day seems to be an argument with one person or another.
3:58 energy so much if confrontation stern now here's the secret though being good at arguments apparently isn't about being right it's about being the calmest most regulated person in the room bless you marita on this table come on thanks babose myself. Thank you for letting me do this because we are going to talk about how to argue better today and we're going to turn chaos into competency. I love that. Ooh, that's [tertawa] really good, guys. I know. I googled I thought about it for a very very long time because 2025 was pretty chaotic and I think it's time we learn something out of it. Like let's
4:43 reflect and let's extract. So, let's face it, most arguments start because according to research, our inner child is having a fullblown emergency. Oh my god, Kai. It presisi sekali. Setiap kali kita bereaksi sebetulnya bukan K yang dewasa, bukan KB yang dewasa, bukan Ke yang dewasa atau Marisa yang dewasa. Yang bereaksi itu anak yang ada di sini. Nah, yang tiba-tiba ngerasa takut kah? Kalau takut kan biasanya orang langsung bereaksi kayak apa reaksinya? Bisa marah, bisa lari, jangan bisa freezing, bisa membeku. Kay, my question is, what's the first thing you feel when you are facing an argument or confrontation? Aku biasanya e deg-degan dulu. Oke. Jadi, ada physical manifestation
5:29 pasti. Jadi, benar banget, Kay. Ee yang harus kita perhatikan pertama itu ketika kita ee sedang berargumen atau select gitu ya sama orang lain itu adalah ee signal dalam tubuh. Kalau aku itu deg-degan langsung degdeg deeg and kalau itu terjadi biasanya aku langsung oh what's going on apa yang terjadi nih and conversation or about to begin that that's my signal of course that to like for me and you know you girls been friends with [tertawa] that was me a long time ag come back but [tertawa] do not cross Carol's line. I back but for me is now that I would
6:15 take my time out. Right. That's why there are times where I'm just like you can't contact me, you can't reach me. Right. Right. Right. Especially in 2025 there are moments like that even amongst us, you know, uh as friends and maybe working together here because I need to take my time to kind of like feel my emotions first. Yes. What do you feel though? The first thing when something upsets you when you feel confronted. Of course. Boom. Shaka shaka [tertawa] inside. Like that's how it fell. Explosion. Bam. [tertawa] Boom. AKB. Yeah, that's so true. I think Yeah, definitely a knot in my stomach. Not in my stomach. A huge knot in my stomach. I
7:02 used to have this habit where if I would get a text that was like a confrontation or like, "Oh, hey, can we talk?" I would literally take my phone and then like throw it and [tertawa] then just like have a second to be like, "Oh my god, what is that about?" Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then after like calming myself down for a good like 15 minutes, I'm like, "Okay, it's scary." And then I text back because you never know, right? What is going to drop? So you run first. You sort of like, "I run first." But I think if it was face to face, I would go at it hit first calmly. I would I have learned not to use my emotions
7:49 during confrontations. How? Yeah, that's hard KB. It's very hard. I would have Yeah. Exactly. And it definitely took a lot of practice because I used to be the type of person that would react first. Either I would race my voice out in defense, either I'm wrong or I'm not, whatever it is, I'm like, "Oh, but you know, if it's like, oh, you did this. Oh, no." You did this. I feel it here. Exactly, Ra. But now I've learned to just take a deep breath. Mhm. Okay. Let's talk about this. And then if that person is not in a state to talk about it, like, hey, let's
8:34 check in in a an hour or so. take your time because we cannot have a conversation time out. So a little bit like Carol like space and time out to regulate your emotions, your feelings and then once you're at a calm level Yeah. and then you can come and have a conversation because there's just no point in you know having confrontations when it's going to end up in an argument. Yeah, that's very interesting. What about you? Ya, really like even [tertawa] I feel instantly kalau gua tuh bukan deg-degan. Jadi, gua langsung ngerasa kalau bagian sini gue like even then I notice that this happens a
9:20 lot and apparently one of the first sign that you're on survival mode or like on gitu kan when you're being triggered something is triggering you itu one of your body parts usually is tense kan gitu for you it was the the heartbeat you probably heartbeat juga karena bum syaka-syaka gitu kalau gua langsung [tertawa] bumak-saka nah kalau Gua tuh benar-benar I feel it. I feel it in my hips. Jadi kadang-kadang tuh gua kalau misalnya lagi duduk aja itu bisa merasa, "Wait, gua duduknya enggak tenang. My breathing just stopped. What happened?" gitu. I didn't stop breathing. But like, you know, ya maksudnya kayak like "Ah no. Your hips, your hips don't like." My hips don't like. Tapi ada kemarin yang bilang sama aku karena trauma ised in the hips.
10:05 Thank you, Kai. That's it. Hm. H. Nah, katanya kan it's about how we were conditioned to face fear when we were child. That's how it is. Jadi kayak e menurut statistik nih ya, when a person perceives a verbal threat, cortisol and adrenaline can spike within seconds. Nah, this amdala hijack, this is called amydala hijack. It can reduce the functional capacity of the prefrontal cortex that is the logic center by up to 80% making rational thought physically impossible. Jadi buat orang yang tidak bisa meregulasi emosi itu biasanya memang sudah berada di dalam amcdala hijack. And the first thing you need to do apparently
10:51 itu otak reptil kita kan. yangvil or primitive brain it takes over a threat apparently there dinosaur coming. Betul betul [tertawa] betul ya kan. Jadi eh itu yang terjadi. So there are certain things that eh menarik banget itu bagaimana caranya kita kembali lagi ke dalam ke dalam state of relax. H partika seseorang itu tidak awar. Kalau kita mungkin sekarang kita sudah tahu informasinya ya, tapi kita ketemu sama seseorang yang mungkin make the hijack dan dia memang sedang tidak capable to argue to think straight terus kita ajak argumen.
11:37 Iya. That's where worlds collide world three or four or I mean we've all been that situation before I presume right? Oh yeah we have Oh gosh. So apparently it's like when you are childring when you Well, yeah, that I want to ask to you guys too though. when you were talking about inner child but we are an adult in a way we need to have an adult manner even though we were saying you know if you're triggered and what your inner child is doing tants yeah sort of like doing this yeah like no it's like you know like cries out but then you have to but don't we have to also realize that we're an adult and like how we behave the way that we speak tergantung in apalagi kalau misalnya
12:24 sebetulnya kalau aku lihat dua orang berargumen itu seperti melihat lihat dua anak kecil berargumen. Iya. Kayak di TK gitu. He. Karena memang itu betul kalau misalnya kita tidak ee merawat ee anak kecil ya dalam diri kita itu jadi akhirnya kita menjadi manusia-manusia yang reaktif. Hm. Mungkin salah satu fondasi untuk menjaga ee argumen itu tetap berjalan sehat ya. Heeh. Ee dan mencapai resolusi tertentu. Kalau misalnya kita berargumen tuh kan kita ingin mencapai resolusi tertentu kan. Aku memahami kamu, kamu memahami aku. Yang pertama kita lakukan adalah pahami diri kita sendiri dulu. Yes. Ketika ketrigger kayak tadi Kak bilang kan ee reptilian brain, otak reptil kita tuh langsung iu iu iu
13:11 itu tuh menjadi tanda bahwa uh kenapa ya gua ke-rigger inner child gua ke-riggernya karena apa ya? Nah itu harus di dipahami dulu karena ketika kita paham itu kita berhadapan sama orang itu jadi enak. Iya kan? Karena kita tahu, oh misalnya tiba-tiba kayak mengatakan sesuatu yang ng-trigger aku, ya, ng-trigger anak kecil dalam diriku, aku bisa kayak, "Oke, sekarang aku akan pilih response. Yang respon itu adalah Marisa yang besar, ya." H bukan Marisa yang kecil. Betul. Awareness again at the end of the day, maturity. Yeah. Maturity has to be has to come from awareness, selfawareness. Yes. Now, this comes to my next question. Karena ternyata eh it's all about the nervous
13:56 system right? Karena intinya kan kita itu benar-benar we're actually very fragile beings if we're not selfaware gitu because we're human beings or complex. Dan ternyata what do you think about this statement? If you can't lead your own nervous system, you can't lead a conversation because I think what Mbak Marisa just said really calls out to leadership to ourselves gitu kan. Yes. Gimana caranya kita nglead diri kita sendiri sebelum kita expect people to set to the set same standards as we go gitu kan. So how do you though take charge and take notes and work on your triggers? Karena kita tahu nih confrontation. Yes. Sebenarnya
14:44 perlu perlu perlu [tertawa] enggak gimana gua gua because when we're leading ourselves, we're taking ownership, right, of the fact that we do have triggers. Karena imbasnya adalah ke orang lain, bukan internal kalau kita tidak membenahi ini gitu. Betul. Yang paling praktis mungkin adalah nafas. Tadi pagi aku dengerin podcast teman-teman dari Jay Sherry. Pasti banyak banget yang suka sama Jay Sherry. Eh, tentang habit-habit atau kebiasaan-kebiasaan yang bisa kita lakukan untuk start our day, eh bisa restart our mind. Itu salah satu yang e dia bagi adalah bernafas. E breathw. Dia bilang, "Oh, breathw itu kadang-kadang orang kan mikir, oh susah banget ya, ribet banget ya, apa polanya ribet banget." Tapi dia cuma bilang ee tarik napas empat hitungan dan ee buang
15:31 nafas en hitungan. Dan dia bilang secara spesifik juga ini akan membantu kita untuk meregulasi emosi, terutama ketika kita ee ee salah satunya adalah sedang berhadapan dengan sesuatu yang sulit di mana kita harus berargumen dengan seseorang gitu. So, itu sih mungkin hal yang paling praktis yang bisa kita latih dan kita lakukan kayak kalau untukku ya. I don't know about you you three ya. The breathing definitely helps, right? Because when you're when your whole body just gets tense, I think for me the only thing that works right there and there is is to breathe. As you said, do you have the same pattern? Like do you have a specific pola? I also actually heard the Jay Shedy. I've been following him for a while. Um been following a lot of his tips and
16:18 they actually work wonders because again, right? You never know when conflict hits. So you wake up every day you're like, "Okay, whatever bomb gets dropped on me today, I am ready. [tertawa] That's good. I'm ready. Good. um for me would be um wu the water is an element right that is soothing um and hence that's why I felt like for me to practice and also to do supplication five times in a day uh it helps because it takes time it takes yourself out of
17:03 the itself a form of meditation correct. Yes. So then um you know I felt like God leads me and you know praying and God hears me and that would like made my anger my emotion gives you peace and wisdom. Yeah true. Even though I'm still angry that's like God I am so you knowled. Yes that's real emotions takes retion right on what you guys are saying gua pengen nanya nih just a lot of curiosity eh which one relates more to you fixing or take you know making it a
17:49 habit to work on yourself and your triggers he or only work on triggers when they come oh yang pertama dong. Iya. First idealnya yang pertama ya enggak sih? [tertawa] Iya memang. Makanya banyak manusia sampai mereka mati pun mereka masih hidup autopilot. True. He enggak gak enggak bangun gitu. Iya. And I don't live that. No no no. Mereka tetap di kampus. Iya. Ya. Ya. Jadi karena rasa takut untuk untuk merasakan hidup dengan segala macam bentuknya ya. Hidup itu kan penuh dengan tangis, penuh dengan tawa, penuh dengan amarah, segala macam emosi. Tapi kadang-kadang ada manusia yang takut untuk merasakan itu semua. Jadi mereka lebih baik menutup diri dan tidak mau
18:34 berkembang. H ya itu memang pilihan hidup ya. Tapi kalau misalnya kita di di kita dihadapkan dengan kamu mau hidup sehidup-hidupnya di saat kamu menghembuskan nafas terakhir itu kamu bisa tersenyum atau kamu masih mengkerut dahinya? Karena aduh kemarin kenapa aku sekarang aku udah udah tinggal nafas terakhir. Why do that? The regrets you know. So the first one the same question. [tertawa] I was just wondering how you know as of right now in my life, I felt like I tried to change. I tried to make better habits, right? Especially like confrontation I don't like it. I don't like conflicts at all. Of course it seems like since we were Yeah. Yeah.
19:20 Have to face so many conflicts. Yes. And as of right now, like why? Like you've already done so much you you tried to change to be a better person. Yeah. Why is there still conflicts? Like drama is always I know following you all the time. And you know what you're saying how sometimes people are just like they would shut down. There are moments where I felt like I want to shut down. Of course survival. Shut down. Yeah. It's like I'm so tired because it's never good enough. It will never I like wherever that I whatever that I do every no matter how good I am there always just be someone who doesn't like me or someone who doesn't know kan gak bisa diapa-apain juga kan kayak and there's this little who always
20:08 wanting to have like a beautiful life right and then when she's like 41 and she realize that it's just not And there's just like a time where I felt like I just want to like shut my door. Yes. Be on my bed. Yeah. Under myita and you know on my pillow and just maybe you should schedule that. I know. I think you should and then just to cry to to and then just to cry. Crying is very important. Oh yes, executive the other day who going through quite a transition dan cerita got so hard because so busy. I had to schedule two minutes out of meetings to go to the toilet and cry. Wow. Come back out. I sampai dia tuh harus
20:54 schedule but she's at least aware enough that she needs it. Cuuse a lot of people don't and they shove it aside. Oh ya. That's high performing people like that. That's how we argue with life. What about you, Ky? Um the the first one for sure. I think I'd rather be prepared than I think it's hard when you're trying to regulate your emotions when you're in the situation faced with conflict, right? You're like, which emotion which reaction should you know that um movie Inside Out Inside Outside like which one's going to take the wheel, you know, take the Exactly. Or sunness. Exactly. Oh my s is pretty cool. [tertawa]
21:39 Oh no. No not Sadness. Oh, that's um yeah the French one. Is the one who doesn't care. Very cool. I like that. Exactly. And then once you're like, okay, when this situation happens um joy, you move forward or when this emotion happens, it's okay, sadness. this is your time to shine, you know. So, you're mentally honestly to an extent physically preparing yourself for certain moments. And of course, you can't fully prepare for things or conflicts that come, right? You never know what can drop on your plate that day. But I think it's it's important to again
22:26 awareness. Yeah, it's the keyword of the of this episode. When you're aware that you have all these emotions and you know how to regulate them and again it takes time. This is not something that happens over and every you train it, right? And you have to be open to train it. Consistent. Consistent. You can't let your ego get in the way and say, "No, you know what? I'm always the right one. I'm always the one who has to win this argument." You know, you have to humble yourself to know that, hey, I'm a human being with all these emotions and that's okay. And each of these emotions has its portion to play in whatever situation we go through in life, right? And you have to be able to um place them
23:12 at a certain time, a certain place and I think any emotion is valid. Like don't get me wrong, it's just a matter of how Yeah. It's how we process it, right? Process. That's why you call adulting. Yes. [tertawa] Yes. Caroline little car loves to go wow. Wow. Oh [tertawa] yeah. No, that's why um that's why I went to war last year, right? [tertawa] Yes. No, but you know uh I think you know what I do? I know that all these little checkins are so important, but last year it got to a point where I was so frustrated. My body felt uncomfortable. My hips were locked for like a whole month. Oh, that's I just felt I was sad. I was stressed. I was really angry. There was a lot going on. Uh there's a lot going on around me.
23:58 There's a lot the world is going on to and I'm as a as a sensitive or more sensitive person, you feel everything, right? Of course. I came to a point where you know what Kai, you got to learn to fight in the literal sense. Fight fight the right way. Fight the right way. If you don't talking to me, Mar, [tertawa] you got to learn a fight. to myself as well. Caroline people that we have you. It need to fight the right way, right? Yeah. I think there's a really brilliant book by Tik Khan Rai. Yes. Yes. There is. So I gave you the book, right? Okay. [tertawa] You gave me many books. Have you read them all? We exchange books. We exchange books. Yeah. Yeah. And uh what what I find is what I find really interesting, we're going to get there because that's like
24:43 that's the ultimate tool kit. But just to summarize um a little we've already set the foundations, right? We know that it starts with how we regulate our emotions, how we're aware of our triggers and now how are we seeing the bigger picture? Are we seeing the bigger picture? What do you think about that? Um you mean when we argue with someone? Yes, because when we argue a lot of people are stuck in this loop in their own ways of thinking in their in their own ways of thinking and in their own ways of interpretation and also their goal. Exactly. What is your experiencing what's what's your experience in trying to see bigger?
25:29 Because sometimes the thing that we're arguing about might not just be what we think it is. A lot of factors come into. Right. Correct. Kalau aku ngelihatnya kita tuh biasanya akan lebih susah untuk melihat gambar besarnya ketika kita membiarkan rasa takut mendominasi. Hm. Kalau iya kan kalau kita lagi wah kayak Muhammad Ali sama siapa? There you go. It's like I don't know my sports reference. She does [tertawa] itu tuh emm kalau udah udah takut yang berdominasi itu pasti bawannya mau gini udah mau nyerang gitu. I don't wanna understand you. I just wanna attack. Aku cuma mau nyerang. Aku enggak mau dengar apa yang kamu ini apa pikirkan.
26:15 Pokoknya eh apa yang aku rasakan pikirkan kamu harus tahu. Ah [tertawa] gitu. So that's the chorus from being afraid. Iya. Oh. H. Yes. Iya. Sebetulnya kalau misalnya kita lihat layer atau lapisan dalamnya itu datang dari rasa takut ya. Ya kan? Takut diserang, takut disakiti. Makanya nyerang aku nyerang dulu, aku sakiti dulu. Iya. Jadi gambar besarnya enggak dapat, Kay. Kalau orang berargumen itu kan gambar besarnya adalah dari dua opini atau perasaan yang berbeda ini kita bisa ketemu di tengah untuk rekonsiliasi. Itu kan gambar besar. the big goal. Iya, the big goal. Tapi kalau misalnya big goal or seseorang tidak punya big
27:00 goal itu Heeh. ya udah semuanya tuh udah luapan emosi aja gitu. Attack, attack, attack. We've seen that sort of behavior around us even ourselves. Aku pun juga pernah merasakan itu gitu loh beberapa kali dalam hidup. Dan pada akhirnya aku sadari bahwa gila badan gua kok sakit semua ya kalau gua selalu bereaksi kayak gini terus gitu. Iya kan? basically karena ini palpitate, stress segala macam. Wah, hancur nih sistem di badan kita tuh hancur. He ya. Karena karena punya kesadaran itu jadi aku kayak ngerasa enggak bisa nih kayak gini terus. Enggak bisa. Masa gua mau hidup dengan state kayak gini terus gitu loh. So, so that's why semakin lama karena awareness of our body. He ee
27:47 kita jadi maksudnya aku ngerasa bahwa oke kita lihat dulu gambar besarnya seperti apa. Eh kita eh kontrol dulu rasa takut ini. Udah it's ok. I'm safe. I'm in a safe place. We can talk. And and and that's where where I try to start. And I I don't always succeed. Boy boy. I would fail so many times. Especially when it comes to our loved ones yang paling dekat sama kita. Paling ngrigger [tertawa] itu udah pasti paling ngetrigger ya. Iya. Cuman ya harus terus dilatih kayak Kevang. You have to train yourself if you like training a marathon or triathlon or a high rox. Right babe? It's not you don't get the stamina overnight. No, it's ongoing training.
28:35 I think compassion and empathy is very much needed to compromise because without those I don't think you can come to a compromise. And I think again, right, Marissa what you mentioned when you're facing a conflict or confrontation, you're arguing. You're trying to meet in the middle and come up with a solution. M I think the the goal is always that, right? Um and I think to be able to see the bigger picture you have to be able to put yourself in the other person's shoots. Brilliant KB compassion and empathy. But it's again it's easier set than done, right? Especially when you believe so much in your argument that it's so difficult for you to see their perspective.
29:21 Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's it's so difficult. It's like, no, I'm right. Yeah. Yeah, I'm right. Although you're listing all these arguments. No, I'm right. There's a technique actually. There use I instead of you. Yeah. I feel this way when I Yeah. Yeah. You consciously not attack the other person. Yes. Yes. Heeh. Why you? Well, I mean, I agree with uh KB and also Marissa but I just I just know that turns out it comes from fear. I thought when you're attacking someone because you believe what you want to believe, right? Like you don't want to understand, you
30:07 know, the other parties what they felt, what they have to fear of getting hurt. Yes. Or fear that you are making a mistake and you don't want to acknowledge because it hurts to acknowledge. Exactly. And it's um you have to put your big boy big girl cap on to acknowledge that you made a mistake right or you know I've done something that's wrong and I be the bigger person. Yeah. And I do agree with KB also that you need compassion and empathy cuz you need to you know realize how does the other person feel right and whatever the situation that they have to go through. Yes. And I think my I think what I'm trying to do right now um and put this as a habit especially with my loved ones. Mas I love you to listen.
30:54 Ah listen to listen. Kayak Najwa Syihab bilang kan. Yes. Di zaman sekarang penting untuk kita mendengarkan dan menguatkan kemampuan kita untuk mendengarkan. Goan. Yes. I mean listen with heart. open heart because sometimes yes you're there I mean presently but you're like in your head like I don't care what you're saying always going to be right but if you listen with your heart you would understand the emotion this person is going how we make that person feels and trying to understand you know the situation that they've been and then now you can you know reflect again to yourself how should we find this solution right I have my Say you
31:40 have your say let's have the solution in the middle. Yeah. Easier said than done. Always always set done. I almost want to like hey why don't we do a role play where we argue but I don't know. Kai is [tertawa] table. It's your table. Yes. What about you? We can take an hour at [tertawa] I think yes to all but my addition would be curiosity. How? That's good. Yes, you need that. You need to train curiosity. I feel like curiosity is the basis of wanting to know. And you want to know the other the why and also understand. So for me the most important thing yang paling penting itu kalau kita memulai
32:25 sebuah diskusi, argumen atau apapun gitu ya. Itu kan kita pengin tahu kenapa satu kamu maunya apa gitu karena how can we build we can empathize juga kalau kita enggak tahu kan sebenarnya dia yang ngerasain apa. Aku suka yang kamu bilang tadi kamu maunya apa, kamu butuhnya apa. Karena pada dasarnya itu kan yang dicari kan kayak betul want because that's also that's actually consideration and empathy for me. Jadi kalau kita berkomunikasi itu dalam dua pihak ya. It's it's hard to listen. It's hard to empathize or build your feelings and emotions and decide what you want to feel or perspective around it if you don't wan to know. He. Kan ada orang yang memang dia udah
33:12 enggak mau tahu. Karena dia enggak mau tahu, dia enggak akan bisa ngerasain. Dia enggak akan bisa eh put the other eh put themselves in the other eh perspective gitu kan. Karena memang dia tidak capable atau tidak memang tidak punya keinginan untuk ingin tahu. Udah stone walling, udah ada tembok. Betul. Iya. Dia udah enggak mau lagi. Bu you always cuuse you always ask like menarik. Kenapa kamu berpikir begitu? Ya curiosity because you wan to know and I really [tertawa] and I true you guys are observing me. Even Mas Ricardo right there right word is menarik. menarik [tertawa] karena ini menarik because I love you ladies [tertawa] I love you
33:57 Ricardo audio guy engineer for me the the basis is curiosity dan kenapa kan e Indonesia as a curriculum fails because it fails to teach children curiosity menurut aku itu yang paling gong sih when you have no curiosity life Just only you see it autopilot autopilot. Can I share something about this? Your touch upon uh Indonesian education. So when I moved here, Yeah. Was I went to a high school, right? It was a public high school near in South Jakarta. And you asked a lot of wise? I did. And then um and then there was this question uh it was an exam and I go to the t-shirt. I I
34:44 went to the I forgot was his name, Mr or something. Anyways, so I told him like, "I don't think you grade my exam correctly because I know for sure this answer is right." So he's like, "No, English teacher by the way." I was like, "No, no, this is wrong. I'm going to take my book. If you were wrong, then you would get zero." So, I think I got like about 80 somewhere around the 80s. And like I'm used to where educators back home, they're very open to discussion. I am king karena waktu itu tahun berapa tuh? Oke. 90-an berarti ya 1999. Iya.
35:31 Iya. 90-an e kita masih di era transisi karena kan pada saat itu 98 kan kita apa pindah ya dari pemerintahan yang otoriter yang memang selama 32 tahun kita tuh terbiasa untuk ya udah instruksinya ini ikuti saja gitu. Jadi pada saat itu juga sistem pendidikan kita juga masih berusaha untuk menyesuaikan. Kan kaget banget ya 98 kita transisi reformasi kemudian 99 mindsetnya masih sama. Jadi pada saat itu mungkin kamu mengalami aku juga ngalamin itu kayak tapi aku masuk SMA belum berubah juga. That's like 10 years later. Anakku masuk ke sekolah juga sekarang belum sekarang teach them to every single question but why? Mm. They never It's like everyone's so scared of why.
36:18 I was like in Twilight Zone because I can't ask the teachers and the students don't like me to ask questions like shut up. And I'm like, we don't need more homework. [tertawa] That's it. Betul betul betul. But that's how we learn, right? Tapi semoga berubah ya, Mas. I. Karena kan para pendidik itu ee lagi-lagi ada pendidik yang ee apa punya kepedulian karena mungkin mereka dulu dididik oleh guru yang cuma satu arah gitu kan. Ee semoga itu mengubah mereka ketika mereka menjadi pendidik ngobrol dengan e mahasiswa atau siswa-siswi mereka. I mean I had that experience. Oh ya. We even had a class called critical thinking. Ya. Itu di kamu sekolah di Indonesia.
37:04 I had that in uni. I had that in uni first. So it was literally asking all the wise why is a chair a chair oh wow. Stuff that shouldn't be asked. Why? Apparently even the shouldn't be asked just for training. Some schools that's international you know curriculum base they do it of course now. But hopefully this could also you know be implemented in school public. Tapi betul ya membutuhkan orang tua yang bisa membantu anak-anak di rumah untuk bisa menerapkan kurikulum [tertawa] itu. Iya. Karena karena karena guru-gurunya juga belum tentu sudah siap untuk itu. And sometimes the parents I mean I'm guilty. [tertawa] Why this? Why this? And I'm like ok wait wait wait wait wait down. They are you know they
37:53 it's better that they ask why rather than their gadget or they find the answer themselves actually mommy never mind [tertawa] for that is confronting right? Eh, tapi benar ya berarti dari perbincangan kita ini, kita barusan sama-sama belajar bahwa kemampuan kita untuk berargumen itu harus kita tanamkan dari kecil. Memang. Wah. [tertawa] Dan kita tidak bisa berargumen ketika kita tidak ketika kita takut sama kata kenapa? Why? He iya. Everyone is scared of the word why here. Problemnya mengakar ternyata.
38:39 Apparently it's truming to many. Sementara kita kan dari kecil udah terbiasa wh why this? Why that? Oh because there are a lot of par are so curious. So apparently this is according to research. Kids start with the blank slate. The human beings are naturally curious. Tapi di umur 4 sampai 5 tahun where they are the most curious banyak yang tiba-tiba silent. di-shutdown soalnya. Di shutdown soalnya. Jadi ketika e ketika semakin besar jadi ketika semakin besar jadi mereka asociate the word why with being shut down, being judged like in school, right? Gitu. Jadi jadinya learned helplessness menurut psikolog Marti Selman. Meskipun dia udah
39:25 update sih itu. I know it's annoying, but I know it's annoying. Buuse, my daughter is also at that age right now. Kenapa ini begini? Kenapa ini begitu? E tidaknya kayak delay aja kali ya K misalnya kayak darling mama doesn't have the answer right now get back to me in one hour. Yes. [tertawa] Ok it be like you don't say darling to us. [tertawa] What? What now? Oke. Tapi aku sekarang gitu loh. Iya. Aku sekarang gitu. Kalau misalnya aku dalam kapasitas untuk menjawab pada saat itu ch either you wait because I don't have the capacity to look for the information right now or you have a phone you can go
40:11 ask chat GPT or Google aunti uncle Google whichever you made to find the information and you show me if you find something GPT kayaknya lebih bagus buat informasi kalau misalnya lebih langsung ngfilter ya Heeh kalau Gemini kayaknya bagus buat e edit-edit gambar [tertawa] Gem Oh, I like using Gemini to deep research. Masa ya? Kok aku dengar katanya chat GPT lebih bagus? [tertawa] Sidrack. But let's talk about this though because we spoke about gimana kita mau berargumen kalau kita juga hardwied for cognitive shortcuts. So apa itu shortcuts? Oh, confirmation bias is a h wired cognitive shut which means research shows people spend 36% less time reading
40:59 articles that contradict their existing beliefs actively reinforcing misperception. Karena mereka tidak suka ketika sesuatu itu berbeda dengan ini. Jadi mereka confirmation bias, "Oh ya udah ini gua percayanya hanya ini." Hmm. Why? I'm gna ask why? Hello Rain. Oh, January is the rainy season. Right. Iya. Jadi, isn't our gadget like that, D right now? Like when you're saying something or you're talking about something, algoritme kita kan ya. Jadi the algorithms actually keep us in the narrow loop. Little bubble. Correct. We have to be able to pull ourselves out of the rabbit. Ya, tapi kan it tak habit seperti itu gitu kan. Oke, so weve
41:45 talked really important active. Now let's go to tikatan. Let's fight. Tiknyaan fight how to fight. Art of war. Let's go. Music to my ears. Let's go. K. I like this. Yes. [tertawa] Physical or in the mind? Both. Mind game is hard. I don't like mind game. Yes. I don't like that too. I don't like that either. Just be transparent. Yeah. Why do you have to speak inapors? Yeah, just speak clearly. Yeah. You know, I I when someone does that, I actually ask them, "Can you please um explain yourself in plain English?" Yeah. [tertawa] I don't have the the capacity to to read. Jangan mutar gitu, guys. Read between the lines, right? I exhausting.
42:30 So, what do you think is compassionate listening? Eh, coba. Oke. K kayaknya tadi atau I hm. Oh, that's like this is what the book that you gave me uh Talk More arguess by Jefferson Fisher, right? Yes. Jefferson Fisher the attorney. Correct. and they and then he said and one of the key points just that you have to listen with an open heart because that as I said before and you know I repeat it again it's very hard when you already have this mindset and you already know right you already know your beliefs there's your perspective and you don't care about others itu menurut Carol a fixed mindset fixed mindset jadi dia tutup pokoknya yang ini yang paling benar gua enggak peduli kalau
43:16 yang tadi open open with apa listening with your heart Oh yes. So we can have you know discussion for like hours and it goes nowhere. Exactly. Yes. Yep. Yeah. So I would say that. Yeah. Me have you ever had to like be really compassionate while listening to somebody? Ye. Yes. I would say. Um, you're always compassionate. Yeah, you're always compassionate. Yeah, I try I try. That's why people come to KV and talk to her all the time. Yeah, I think I'm I'm definitely more of a of a listener for sure. I like to observe. Yeah. Remember season one when viewers keep saying we need to
44:02 hear? Exactly. Because I think in any setting I always find myself being that observer and listener. And I think because I spend I take that time to listen and to observe, I can then put empathy in the situation. Yeah. And then I can also take their argument, confrontation, whatever it may be, with compassion. M and you you have to again right uh Kai what you said curiosity you have to be curious to ask them also the right questions. Why are you feeling like this? Where is it coming from? And then you can only understand then why they're
44:50 feeling the way they are. And then it allows you to be compassionate. Yeah. And maybe it's a time, it's a situation where you need to be the listener and they're the ones who need Yeah. to take it out, right? And sometimes it's vice versa. Yes. Yeah. And again, it takes a certain amount of awareness, training training to lead to the maturity to position yourself. Okay. In this situation, this argument, should I be that listener so I can extend some compassion towards this person? Dan satu pertanyaan yang aku suka eh ketika lagi dalam moda itu adalah apa sebetulnya yang kamu sedang khawatirkan sekarang?
45:38 itu akan ngebantu eh teman bicara kita untuk langsung fokus like oh address. Iya karena orang kalau misalnya lagi marah lagi naik turun emosinya sebetulnya itu kan karena ada kekhawatiran tertentu kan itu akarnya di situ. Jadi langsung go straight to the roots. What are you actually worry about? So why this people always go around first? Karena enggak karena ee ya itu kayak enggak enggak terbiasa dengan training yang tadi. Ketika emosi naik itu langsung dikeluarin gitu loh. Heeh. Enggak dicerna dulu di sini. Iya. Yes. Nah, makanya ee makanya ketika kita tanya pertanyaan itu, itu bantu mereka untuk masuk ke proses cerna dulu. H ya kan? Oh, kamu sekarang lagi tadi KB
46:24 bilang, "What are you feeling?" Right? Kamu sekarang sedang merasakan apa? itu udah benar banget KBY karena dia langsung ditarik fokusnya untuk aku sekarang lagi ngerasain amarah aku lagi ngerasain sedih oke amarahnya itu menurutmu kenapa apa sih kekhawatiran kamu yang membuat kamu begitu marah so always goes like what are you worried about yes and I love that you started mentioning compassionate and empathy into it before I get there because it turns out that the world isn't black and white. No. Oh, because not outside of their control. Oh yes. Yes. Nah, kenapa menurut gua tuh sangat
47:09 menarik KB tadi mention empat empat and listening is because has a little bit of a different perspective on how what kind of mindset we need to have when we go into a fight. Fight. So according to Tick Night Han is I love this quote listening with the so purpose of relieving the suffering of the other person. Boom. That is golden empathy. Yes. Wow. And that basically summarizes almost everything that we talked about today and like interview to giving us the space right? Yes. The space for us to share. Iya. kita tuh kalau ngobrol gini ya, gue
47:57 tuh ngerasanya itu kita tuh kayak saling menterapi satu sama lain karena kita mendengar pengalaman masing-masing dan belajar dari pengalaman masing-masing. Iya. Which is why I love this space. Thanks so much for creating such a beautiful ladies. Us. Us. It's us. Yes. And viewers. We're cool comments and viewers live chat. Yes. At 12. Yeah. Sharing your stories. Insanle [tertawa] gitu kan biasanya. Amaz yang absen, yang absen. Thank you so much. And we've all been in that situation di mana kita merasa kita masuk ke dalam sebuah konfrontasi atau argumen kok kayaknya enggak ada ending-nya ya gitu. Mudah-mudahan
48:42 [tertawa] mudah-mudahan bisa menemukan ending. Kenapa produser kita melon gitu? [tertawa] We love hearing the back sounds. Right. I know. [tertawa] No, but you know what? Kadang-kadang memang, tapi kita perlu menurut gua kita harus perlu dihadapkan dengan konfrontasi karena kita harus semakin dewasa itu bisa semakin terlatih kayak mutiara. Thank you. Iya, benar ya. That's that's a a message that I will I invent myself right now. Tapi benar kayak mutiara. Lihat mutiara yang dipakai KBY itu. Mutiara menjadi mutiara karena kerang itu pas dibuka di di tempat terus go. Hello diamond. Latering bling bling [tertawa]
49:28 and finally give you a new set ofinging. [tertawa] Yes. Only for him. But I feel like we're all diamonds in a r of course. And for a diamond to shine even brighter, it takes an even rougher process. The most beautiful diamonds are the one that went through the most rigorous processes. Dan menurut gua hanya untuk mengakhiri, he. Kadang-kadang kita itu takut banget ketemu konflik karena kita takut kita tidak bisa menyelesaikannya atau kita enggak tahu itu arahnya nanti akan ke mana. Tapi menurut gua itu tadi sebenarnya konflik itu harus disyukuri loh. Iya. Karena on the other side later, when we put effort and empathy, compassion into it, kita gak pernah tahu akan membawa kita ke mana. Yes.
50:14 And what a blessing you become to others right? Yes. Difficult people are lessons in our lives if we know how to process it. Yes. I mean, arguing better is certainly not about sharping sharpening your insulting skills or quicker comebacks. Ternyata about putting your own oxygen mask first. H to relieve your panic. Because kadang-kadang kalau orang satu orang ketigger ngajak kita untuk argue, kita ikut kerigger buat pushback. Boom. Shakersak I know. [tertawa] It's an Aries Gemini. No, I'm talking to myself too. Emotional regulation is difficult and thank you for making me do this because I had to go down do deep research meaning checklisting what I need to work on.
51:00 Yes. Right. Let's do this. Healthier in the future, what would that be? That is difficult. Me is selfwth. If you don't know you're worth, you cannot fight. You cannot argue because you don't know what you're fighting for. Hm. That's it. That's boundaries for me. I boundaries. Um, we can, you know, have a healthy fight but until to what extent, you know. Um, selfworth, selfworth, self-l and knowing your boundaries.
51:46 Yeah. Self-l and knowing your boundaries. Ky, integrity. M yes I think [tertawa] you have to put compassion and empathy when you're dealing with things like this but you also have to stand your ground right man and just knowing which that line right when you're not giving in so much that they take you for granted. That's what I'm saying about selfworth as well is connected KB standing your ground integrity. What about you Kai? Mine would be loving my inner child. Yes. Because my inner child loves tantrum. And when I see my daughter tender, my tum with her in my mind. [tertawa]
52:31 It's reality. Tapi viewers, buat kamu gimana? Do you have one thing that you would love to work on yourself? Give that effort, the accountability to lead yourself so you can be better. Yes. Preach. Argum. Yes. And isn't about finding the ground and a solution together. So, thank you so much for tuning into this episode about arguments, fighting, how to argue better. How to argue better argue together. Oh, yeah. Do we do? Healthy arguments. Healthy argum. healthy arguments because healthy arguments turned into discussions and discussions is what we want because discussions is where we learn and where we feel safe. So this is your safe space to discuss
53:18 and share in the comments. See you on the next episode. Thank you. Bye bye. Oh nice. Gua ngerasa, gua ngerasa jadi makin pintar deh dengan obrolan-obrolan ini. I learn something I did not know hips like your head your hips don't lie baby hips truly don't ya makanya kenapa banyak orang tuh enggak fleksibel itu sebenarnya belum tentu karena low muscleya enggak fleksibel tapi because there's a lot of tense emotion stored in that somatic movement makanya lu mau pilates mau yoga strch
54:06 Belum tentu bisa. Hello viewers, in season 3. Spotify and YouTube. Little ways you can support us iscribing [musik] to our channel and also to like, comment, and share. Yes. And make sure also follow us on Instagram, TikTok, threads and X. Walk with us on this journey called Life and Let's Connect. Yeah.
