0:00 Ben Shapiro, [ __ ] you and the [ __ ] horse that you wrote in on. I say that on behalf of the world. >> Ben is a fantastic proponent for free speech, but where does that sit? If you do criticize Israel, >> one can imagine that it's very difficult to hear nuance uh when when nuance itself is being sort of weaponized as a way of masking actual anti-semitism by so many. >> How best to deal with people like Nick Fuentes? >> What he's doing is actually very sophisticated. I'll watch every clip and laugh 90% of the time. >> Well, love it or hate it, the fact is that social and digital media are now at the apex of pretty much all popular debates. It's where opinions are formed, values are interrogated, and agendas are
0:48 set. Kla Harris diverted a plane to New York for a 92 cameo on SNL. Donald Trump told dozens of podcasts and spent three hours with Joe Rogan. you know which one became president. The Daily Wire was ahead of the game in harnessing the potential of digital media and the exodus from the mainstream media. The cost of his success is, of course, significant scrutiny. It's often accused of failing to live up to its own standards on things like free speech. Commentators like Tucker Carlson and yes, Candice Owens say it's on the opposite side of a battle for conservative values with an unhealthy appetite for Israel and war. Well, Jeremy Boring co-founded and ran the Daily Wire. He also hired Candace Owens. In a moment, he'll respond to that. But first, a quick reminder of his first and
1:34 only previous appearance on Uncensored, where he found himself challenging Bassam Yousef in a clip now viewed 24 million times. I think the sort of lie of the postworld war II, the post-war consensus lie is that somehow war uh in which you kill a bunch of people and don't secure victory is morally superior to war where you do secure victory. I would say that the only way to morally justify a war is to win it. Otherwise, your ar the very argument that brought you into the war, this enemy must be defeated, ends up being proven alive. >> How can you justify the killing in the West Bank where Hames does not exist? And if the disproportionate response during the over all of these years have actually worked, what will be new this
2:20 time that did not happen before? I just want to that that was my question. >> Okay. >> Well, I'm pleased to say that Jeremy Boring, the former Daily Wire CEO and director of the Pen Dragon Cycle, joins me now. Jeremy, welcome back. >> Good to be back and glad that you're back on your feet. Well, I actually am not actually back on my feet. Uh, I'm still on crutches and uh glad that you're back on the air. Uh, >> yeah, I'm back on the airways. Let's put it like that, which is certainly a step up from where I was last week. Um, interesting that that your your only other appearance. 23 million people watch that. In a way that was the catalyst actually um that show uh because of the response on YouTube for
3:05 me to reach the conclusion you had reached many years before obviously with the Daily Wire that the future is not conventional linear television mainstream media but that actually through the medium of places like YouTube that is where young people in particular are going in bigger and bigger numbers. So thank you uh for being part of that catalyst. Um, you were at the Daily War, I think. Was it how long in the end? For 11 years. >> Uh, just 10 years. Yeah. >> 10 years. >> I founded the company in Southern California actually in my in my pool house. >> Right. So, I was going to ask you because you managed to build a business, a billion dollar business. Um, and I've watched it with great admiration from afar. I've had lots of people from the Daily Wire come and go on uncensored
3:52 obviously including some who've left you like Candice and we'll come to that. Um when you started the Daily Wire, what what was the sort of what was the the dream that you had in your head? Has it manifested how you hoped in your wildest dreams or in the end did it become something perhaps you'd preferred it not to have become? Well, I think that, you know, when you start something like the Daily Wire, uh, of course you're going to make mistakes. Things aren't always going to go the way that you thought that they were going to go. I think we got a lot more hits than we had in misses, though. You know, when we first started the company, we saw the opportunity being afforded by emerging social media platforms to to really help us get a message sort of around the traditional gatekeepers uh, and directly
4:37 to the people, a message that we thought needed to be uh, expressed. We're all LA guys. So, of course, we also wanted to create culture, not just criticize culture. And we did all of those things over the over the decade uh that I was running the company alongside Caleb Robinson and in partnership with Ben Shapiro. So, yeah, I think I would have to say that we we really achieved most of the things that we set out to achieve and of course, some of them we achieved beyond our wildest imagination. Uh, of course, you couldn't have foreseen all the mistakes either. Um, but part of being an entrepreneur is being comfortable with the idea that you're going to make mistakes, that things aren't always going to go uh exactly according to plan or even according to plan at all and you're going to have to react and pivot and make changes in the moment. I think we successfully did that, too, which is why, as you say, we we grew a billion
5:22 dollars worth of revenue over that 10 years and deployed all of that money uh in pursuit of those fundamental values that we had when we first established the company. you've created some massive stars or taken people on and made them much bigger stars and people have come and go. Um know Ben's still at the top of the pyramid and we'll come to him. Candace Owens was one of the people that you brought into the Daily Wire family and then she had a spectacular falling out with with everyone notably over Israel. Um what's your view of Candace? I mean she my view for what it's worth. I've had her on Uncensored many times. because I know her a little bit away from the camera. She's unbelievably smart. She's a brilliant debater. Um, she's compelling. She's great on camera.
6:09 All of these things. But I've watched her in the last couple of years drifting to a place where I really really have reservations about whether she believes half the stuff that she's putting on her show, you know, whether it's Bridget Macaron being a man or all the Charlie Kirk stuff or whatever it may be. I do think she's now gone down a path of deliberately promoting conspiracy theories for cash. What is your assessment? >> Well, the problem with trying to wield cynicism for clicks is that cynicism ultimately wields you. And I think that's true of a lot of um the sort of mistakes that we make in life. We always think that we're too clever for the sort
6:55 of um you know, the sort of evil that exists in the world to ever touch us. Uh I've asked Candace on two separate occasions what she actually believes. On both occasions, she said, "I believe what the people believe. I am the voice of the people. And of course, both times, I don't know what that means, Candace. I've come to understand though, at least from my point of view, I think she's articulating the idea of audience capture and expressing it as a positive value. Um, does she actually believe the things that she's saying? I don't know. I do know that if you say things long enough, you come to believe them. The most convincing voice in the world is our own voice. >> To your point, though, Candace is a genuine superstar. I mean, she has it. the thing that we talk about in in show business. She has it in spades. I've never met anybody with any more of it.
7:40 Uh the camera absolutely loves her. She to your point, she's whips smart. When she's using those powers in service of the true and the and the good and the virtuous, I think there's nobody better. But like you, I'm very concerned about the direction that she's that she's taking it right now. >> We've got a little mashup of things she said about the Daily Wire and about Ben. Let's take a look at this. commentary that is coming from Daily Wire Management, Daily Wire commentators regarding things that I've said, positions that I have or just appearances that I am making. And you know, I would I would like to really leave the Daily Wire in the rearview mirror. Like when you break up with someone and you have a crazy ex, that was how it felt like being fired from the Daily Wire. Andrew Claven of
8:26 the Daily Wire released a one-hour video uh essentially accusing me of many things, but um referring to me as anti-Semitic, trying to link me to Nick Fuentes. This one is so fully off of the mother effing plantation. Truly, Ben Shapiro, [ __ ] you and the [ __ ] horse that you wrote in on. And I say that on behalf of the world. >> What's your feeling when you hear that? Well, she says it on behalf of the world, so it must be true. Uh, listen, it's funny to hear Candace, who will do literally now, you know, over 50 episodes on the Charlie Kirk assassination, talk about other people fixating. You know, this is it's ridiculous. Candace is very good at what she does. She makes very compelling television, and that's all you're seeing
9:11 in those clips. >> Here we go again. Before the cameras, before the ceremony, before history is made, every detail is chosen. From Amazon MGM Studios comes Melania. This new film takes you inside the 20 days leading up to the 2025 presidential inauguration through the eyes of the first lady herself. Where fashion isn't just style, it's strategy. Witness the image defining decisions made behind closed doors. A celebration of beauty and glamour. Melania, only in theaters January 30. It's interesting. I mean, she fell out with Ben primarily over Israel. Um I
9:57 I've had an interesting experience with Ben because I I you know, when we were I was at CNN, we had a famous notorious runin on air that, you know, helped make him actually in a way. Um he was, you know, to his supporters, he took me down. Um and it became a big viral thing and people keep sending it to me now and so on. And I've watched his rise then from a very young guy, very sort of fire brand young conservative commentator to somebody who is, you know, one of the most dominant figures in this space in the world. There's no question about that. And I have a lot of admiration for Ben. But he was coming on my show a lot when I was very pro-Israel's right to defend itself after uh October the 7th and we were texting each other quite regularly. Um, but when I became more
10:43 critical at the start of last year in particular and through last year about the scale of Israel's response and what I perceived to be the disproportionality and so on, um, he just stopped a stopped coming on and then stopped replying to any messages of mine. Completely froze me out and I've had no more contact with him. And so a little part of me is like Ben's, you know, he's brilliant and he's a fantastic proponent for free speech, but where does that sit if you do criticize Israel? I've never criticized Jewish people. I'm not remotely anti-Semitic. I think he probably knows that. Um, but I do believe I have a right to criticize the Israeli government uh when they're waging a war of the kind they've been waging in Gaza.
11:29 Now, regardless of whether you agree with me about that, it doesn't really matter. I'm I'm surprised that he's cut me off like this. And I don't really understand it other than he has a little bit of a blind spot about Israel when it comes to the free speech debate. Well, I think Ben's um been a great champion of freedom of speech. of course Ben as probably the most famous religious Jew on earth um has very strong opinions about Israel and you know I can't speak to him not texting you back or or appearing on the show during that period of time and I haven't been in daily contact with Ben in the last 10 months because of leaving the Daily Wire and all the changes that have happened as a result of that but I can
12:16 say that uh I think one might understand why when So many voices in the media have gone so far in their, you know, quote unquote opposition to Israel, which was a very thin veneer on actual anti-semitism. And I think as time has gone on, we we see what's behind that mask more and more from so many people in public life. Uh, one can imagine that it's very difficult to hear nuance uh when when nuance itself is being sort of weaponized as a way of masking actual anti-semitism by so many. But isn't that ultimately what the whole free speech debate comes down to? It's the ability to listen and tolerate people's views you don't like, even if you find them hateful. There is nothing
13:03 I've ever said which could be remotely construed as anti-semitic or any dislike or hatred of Jewish people. And he knows that. He really doesn't want to engage with me at all simply because I became more critical of the Israeli government. And I I think that's inconsistent with his stance about free speech. >> Well, I don't think it's inconsistent with um with a a broad support for free speech to not engage with people who say things that you don't like. It's free speech says that you have the right to say it. It doesn't say that I'm have the obligation to continue >> uh to engage with you when you do say it. So, I I I' I'd be careful about that. But then, of course, we're we're getting into fairly personal territory here where only Ben could speak for himself. I I would only again point out
13:48 that I I think that over the last few years a lot of people had have said I'm only criticizing Israel. Don't I have the right to criticize uh a foreign government? Which of course you do have the right to criticize a foreign government and your own government or any government? Um but because that was used as a kind of Trojan horse by so many who have since exposed uh real anti-semitism, you know, one can imagine that if you were in the position of Ben Shapiro or or other very prominent Jewish figures in the political debate, you know, that that would be a tough a tough thing to hear when it's been weaponized by so many. >> Is that what he's feeling? I don't know. Again, I can't I can't speak to >> Yeah. I listen I I I don't expect you to
14:35 to speak for him about it. I was just curious because I know Candice fell out with him over the issue of Israel. Um and I think she has said things which which are certainly borderline uh could be construed as anti-Semitic. So I think it's a different situation, but I'll leave her to have that argument with him. Did you fall out with Ben at all personally towards the end? >> Well, certainly neither of us set out to see this kind of separation. Right. when you when you get married, you don't think too much about divorce. And Ben and I had a long and very productive uh partnership over the last 15 years. I mean, really going back before um the Daily Wire. I I was on the phone with Ben as he walked out of the studio from that infamous uh const when he handed you the Constitution, that infamous appearance that you referenced. Yeah.
15:20 >> A little bit ago. So we, you know, we had a long a long partnership and, you know, when something like that comes to an end, of course, it's going to leave a mark, but we fought in a lot of battles together. We were in the trenches alongside one another for a long time. I think that probably creates a bond uh that that isn't easily broken. As I like to say, if if Ben ever needs a kidney, I've got one. I suppose if Caleb needs a kidney, I've got two. If they need a kidney at the same time, they'll have to duke it out because I'm keeping one for myself. When did you last talk to Ben? >> Uh Ben sent me a message on the day that Charlie Kirk was shot. Uh obviously Ben and I met Charlie at the same time at the same event at the Breakers in Florida when Charlie was a teenager. So
16:05 we both had a very long relationship with Charlie and and Ben sent me a very kind message just checking on me and and you know the kind of things that would be expressed between two brothers in a moment like that. One of Candace Owens's accusations has been that Ben was jealous of Charlie Kirk's success and influence and he wanted to bring down the Turning Point organization. You would be better placed than most to know if that was true. What What do you say to that? >> No. Well, listen, in public life, we all have little rivalries at times and little jealousies at times. You know, there were times when I got on the on the wrong side of Charlie or Charlie got on the wrong side of me or where, you know, any of us in the space for whom
16:52 that may be true. But to say that Ben was engaged in a project to take down TPUSA, that that's absurd. Ben and Charlie had a very lengthy relationship. You know, one of one of Charlie's last guests on his show was Ben Shapiro. Um, and I think that's just indicative of the long relationship that they had. and and for the you know, as far as I ever saw, and I think I had a lot of transparency uh into it, Charlie would stop by anytime he was in Nashville and and check on us at the Daily Wire. Um so I I don't think there's any any truth to that. It's very interesting to be watching from uh the sidelines if you like about how it always used to be the case. The conservative right in America would line
17:37 up full square behind Israel for example. U but now that's not the case. Now you see people like Tucker Carlson, you see Candace, you see Dave Smith, you see a lot of people now um who are very outspoken against Israel and you're seeing a real split I guess uh there. What what do you make of that? Does it has Have you noticed this? Do Do you feel concerned about it? What's your feel about the way this has gone? >> Well, I'd be careful not to conflate Candace Owens, who is sort of the the queen of the Grift Industrial Complex with Tucker Carlson, who uh like him or or or leave him is engaged in an actual political project. You know, as far as I can tell, >> Tucker is trying to create a new American majority out of a sort of
18:24 amalgamation of left-wing economic populism on the one hand and right-wing social populism on the other. He's actively engaged behind the scenes at the White House and staffing decisions. He wields his influence to try to effectuate a political end. I happen to disagree vehemently with him about what I perceive to be um the political good, but at least what he's doing is fundamentally political. I don't think what Candace is doing is fundamentally political at all. I think that she's engaged in a kind of self argrandisement and click chasing, audience capture, uh economic, cynical economic play. I I don't perceive that about Tucker. >> How best to deal with people like Nick Fuentes? You know, I had him on the show
19:09 recently. I think five, six million people watched it. There's no doubt there's a huge interest in this guy. Um, I think I challenged him pretty robustly over all his views. But, you know, his technique was to kind of brazenly just admit most of it. Yeah, I'm a racist. Yeah, I'm this. To mock the Holocaust and so on and so on. Um, you know, it's quite hard to have a serious conversation with somebody that does that kind of thing. his gropers, his followers loved it. Of course, nobody ends up, you know, they just declare total allout victory, whatever. Um, I I don't feel I got much out of it to be honest with you, but you know, people like him are are increasingly popular. I know that you had quite strong views about him. I don't think he appeared at the Daily Wire, certainly not in recent
19:55 years. What's the best way to handle people like that who are phenomena out there? If you don't platform them, they go unchallenged. If you do, they kind of use it to fuel themselves and become ever more popular. What's the best way, do you think, to handle this? Small businesses drive our economy, but securing capital is a constant struggle. Of the 36 million small businesses in the United States, over 70% report needing additional capital at least once per year. Big banks are burying owners in mountains of paperwork for months. If you want competitive bank rates without all those frustrating bank delays, visit our sponsor cardiff.co/perse for up to $500,000 in funding. Cardiff's application takes
20:41 less than 5 minutes and has no impact on your personal credit. Approvals happen in minutes. Banks try to lock out small businesses. Cardiff has the key. Big banks may not want to approve your business loans, but Cardiff does. If you've been in business for at least a year and you're pulling in $20,000 a month in revenue, apply now for up to $500,000 in the same day business funding at cardiff.co/pers. Again, that's cardiff.co/pers. Real growth, fastunding. Well, I do think that it's a a flaw in the immune system of popular media that we don't have good tools to deal with people who um who aren't playing by any
21:27 sort of rules that we identify. You know, I think the Daily Wire's position under my uh during my tenure was um to ignore Nick Fuentes and not have him not to give him any exposure. The problem is, of course, that Nick engages in enormous amounts of irony. you know, his his fans understand the plan. They trust the plan. They don't even see the same interview that your average um audience member sees when they're when they watch you talk to Nick Fuentes. It might as well be a completely different show that they're watching because Nick isn't Nick isn't having the surface level conversation. What he's doing is actually very sophisticated. It's incredibly funny. I mean, I I have to admit I have to mute uh Nick on social media because I'll watch every clip and
22:13 laugh 90% of the time. He's very very talented. And if you see what he's doing, listen, I I despise what he's doing. Um again, I think that he's also engaged in a true political project. And so, I don't want to completely I don't want to discount him or be dismissive of him. I think that what Nick Fuentes is doing um will have actual political resonance um for the rest of our lives. And I think it's a thing that has to be opposed. And as someone on the right, I believe that, you know, it's my job to oppose it. But I don't think that it does any good to engage in conversation with him as though the conversation is of the sort that you and I are having right now where we're just exchanging ideas in good faith. Nick Fuentes is not exchanging ideas with you in good faith. you when you have a conversation with him, you are a prop and he is wielding
23:01 you to make all the jokes and get in all the points that he's hoping to get in for his very select initiated audience. >> Yeah, I think >> for that reason you can't win a debate with him, >> right? No, I I agree. I totally agree. Um, when it comes to MAGA itself, this extraordinary revolution in many ways that's twice propelled Donald Trump to the to the White House, it feels quite fractured at the moment. And we're seeing more and more examples of this where how does America first sit with decapitating Maduro in Venezuela or attacking Iran or whatever it may be. Um, you know, when you see the Minneapolis shootings with ICE, you know, you I'm seeing a lot of people on the right now condemning it. I'm seeing others vehemently trying to defend it
23:48 and so on. You're seeing a lot of like desperate voices in the MAGA base or certainly the conservative right incorporating it. Um, how profound is that getting and what does that mean for it going forward? Well, MAGA is probably like yes we can, which was Barack Obama's famous line, right? Yes, we can. Yes, we can. Cue uh of of course has a long history, particularly in Latin America on the left, but in America, popularized by Barack Obama. I don't think MAGA as a concept really outlives Donald Trump. I think it's something that he embodies. He's he has said that and I think that he's right which is why you see this division happening on the right today
24:34 because we're going into the midterms right now. Midterms typically not good for the party uh of the president in this country and once you're through the midterms we're going to be back in a new presidential cycle and it'll be the first presidential cycle in the last decade in which Donald Trump isn't you know seeking the office of president of the United States. And so what that means is everyone on the right who wants a hand in defining the future of the party sees a non-donald Trump ccentric future uh just right within reach. And so for that reason there's going to be a lot of disperate voices trying to seize the mantle of MAGA or seize the mantle of conservatism or sees the mantle. But all of those are in some ways going to be a redefinition because Donald Trump
25:20 himself was a MAGA itself was a departure from traditional American conservatism as we've understood it since say Ronald Reagan through the Tea Party etc. And so I think that it's a real moment of ideological uncertainty on the right. That's why people like Steve Bannon, Tucker Carlson, Nick Fuentes in his own way are trying to create a new sort of American right. Again, as I said, blending left-wing economic populism and right-wing social populism. Other people are trying to move the party maybe back toward that Reagan revolution, Tea Party uh sort of ethos that it's had uh for most of my life certainly. And you know, h how is all that going to shake out? You know, that that's what politics is all about. We're going to discover that through the midterms and certainly going into the
26:05 next presidential. You know, right now I think that the coalition that ascended Donald Trump to the presidency, you know, both in 2016 and 2020, no one is actually grabbing that mantle. Everyone's trying to redefine it in desperate ways. And that could mean that our chances as Republicans going into 2028 are not particularly good. If someone can't find a way to keep that coalition together, uh, then I think that we're we're looking at, uh, pretty strong headwinds. How many times have you voted for Donald Trump? >> Two out of three ain't bad. When was the one you didn't? >> I didn't vote for Donald Trump in 2016.
26:51 And I was pretty outspoken at the time in my belief that Donald Trump ascending would redefine conservatism in ways that I wasn't particularly comfortable with. Um, you know, I would say that I was never Trump in 2016. But once Trump was president, the idea of never Trump sort of lost its connection to reality for me. You can't say never Trump when Trump is. And so at that point I started assessing Trump from a different framework. Not the what do I think the party should be and more what do I think the actual political battles in front of us actually are practically speaking. And in that regard like every president of course Donald Trump is a mixed bag. There's been things that I like and things that I don't. I'm certainly glad uh that Hillary Clinton wasn't
27:37 president. I'm certainly glad that Kla Harris wasn't president. I think Donald Trump in the last year has made uh some incredibly great moves in America's interest, particularly in foreign policy. I think other parts of the strategy are flawed. What's happened in Minneapolis, listen, Americans voted in overwhelming numbers to see our border secured uh and to see a corrective in the form of Donald Trump for Joe Biden's open border policies. I think what's actually happening on the ground in Minneapolis cuts against that. I think it adds chaos instead of reducing chaos. Uh, and I think it's a distraction from the actual mission. That's going to be true in any presidency. Donald Trump has a pretty remarkable way of pivoting when something isn't working. So, I'm hoping that that's what we see in that particular situation and in a few others uh over the next few months.
28:23 >> We're going to see a battle for the heart and soul of of the conservative right in America. Could Ben Shapiro emerge as a candidate in 2028? I mean, is that a bad idea? You know, in in uh 2015, I thought I'm going to run Ben Ben Shapiro for president uh in 2020. Uh today, I think you probably couldn't get Ben Shapiro to run for office for any amount of money. You know, politics is has always been a uh a bloody sport. And I think in in America right now, I think anybody who you have to be about half crazy to seek that office. >> We've had a very civilized conversation here. As you know, a lot of conversation in the political arena certainly and media actually, but political arena in
29:08 America is extremely incendurary. It's toxic. It's very tribal. It's hyperartisan. And we see social media fueling things like the Minneapolis. >> I don't want to attack an injured man. >> Very kind of you. Um but but I think the point I was going to make was that if you look at say Minneapolis, people just what happened first to Renee Good and then to uh the second victim there, you just saw people immediately run to their party line and then not be moved one inch from that regardless of new video footage of new facts emerging or new anything. Um, and then there's been a little bit of a sea change this week where even Donald Trump has realized if you send out your people to try and and
29:56 try and say that what the public have seen with their own eyes is actually not what they saw, they're not going to buy it and they're going to start turning on you. Do you feel like it's a little bit of a turning point this week? Because I do. I sort of feel like this idea that you can say, "Look, I know you've all watched this, but that is not what happened." I think that's that game may be over. >> Well, I think it's an occupational hazard in politics and political media. You know, when when um if your batter if your pitcher dings a batter and the other team clears the bench, you have to clear your bench. That's what it means to be on a team. Even if after the game when we're all uh talking amongst ourselves, you go, "Well, I'm pretty sure that that our pitcher dinged that
30:43 guy on purpose." um in politics that's an that's also a natural reaction that sort of team sport uh instinct but it doesn't hold you know people uh Donald Trump people running the country are actually despite all evidence to the contrary are actually thoughtful people they are people trying to do what's right you know Donald Trump is rightly trying to deal with the uh excesses of America's immigration policy certainly over the four years preceding his second term but really over the last >> 40 years and no one wants to see someone an unarmed man in captivity be shot. You know, Alex Py shouldn't be dead today. I don't think that the Border Patrol agent who shot him woke up that morning uh wanting to shoot an unarmed man. I
31:28 think, you know, it was a chaotic situation and and when you when you have people interfering with law enforcement uh or or trying to obstruct law enforcement, uh when you have really heightened emotional situations like that, very chaotic situations, and you have armed police on one side and in the case of Prey, an armed uh citizen on the other side, you know, sometimes mistakes are going to happen. Terrible things happen. And this seems from everything I've seen to be an instance of that, a real tragedy. I I think of it somewhat as distinct from uh the shooting of of the woman a few weeks ago, who, you know, I I think much more arguably was a justified shooting, although still a very tragic one. Much more arguably a justified shooting. Um, and I think that
32:13 one can support the actions of law enforcement broadly and still say, "Listen, this horrible thing happened and there have to be consequences when horrible things happen, even when they're even when they're mistake mistakes." But I don't think that the average conservative of good conscience in this country is happy to see an unarmed man uh shot. And I think Donald Trump will make he will make corrections to the policy because his ultimate goal isn't um, you know, bluster and chaos. his ultimate goal is an actual effect of policy uh to to fix the immigration problem in this country. >> Yeah, I think that's right. Um let let's end by talking about the the launch of the Pen Dragon cycle on the Delhi wire. It was years in the making. Let's take a look at a trailer and we'll then we'll talk about it.
33:00 >> All of this is an illusion, an echo of a voice that has died. >> And soon that echo will cease. So, lots of things to like about this. Uh, lashings of violence, death, sex, nonwokery at its finest. Um, very, very high budget. I mean, I read that you spent seven figures on each episode, which is seriously high budget. It looks like it. It's very It's exciting to watch. A lot of it is set in Britain, of course, which pleased me enormously. Um,
33:45 for those who not really aware of it yet, what's your your short sales pitch for why they should watch it? >> Yeah. Well, listen, uh, it's based on Arththerian myth. You know, I I had the privilege one time of visiting the robing room at Parliament where your monarch prepares to open Parliament when he goes into the House of Lords. And I was struck by the fact that the room is surrounded on all sides by these beautiful uh wooden reliefs from Arththeran myth. And it occurred to me, well, isn't it an amazing thing that when the actual monarch of Britain is about to perform their constitutional duty, they first surround themselves by the sort of idealic platonic version of of their role. That's what Arthur is. He's the he's the western king who should be. It's the most popular story
34:30 in the Western cannon that doesn't come directly from the Bible. uh it's enduring for a reason and it's always been a story about who we are about who Christ about what Christianity is and I think that as we as we drift away from those myths as we tell them uh fewer and fewer times or as we tell them in more and more secularized versions and abstract them away from the actual messages that they contained uh throughout the centuries that we've been telling them, we lose an important part uh of our identity. I'm against the destruction of the narrative structure on which our cultures have been built. I'm against pulling down statues of Thomas Jefferson and Christopher Columbus on the one hand. I'm against saying that Churchill is the chief villain of World War II or that the moon landing didn't happen or that 9/11 was an inside job on the other. Those are
35:17 those are both physical and rhetorical examples of of tearing down statues and destroying our sort of national identity. And I think that our national identity uh is really the immune system against tyranny. It's part of what part of what has made the west successful. What's made Britain so successful? What's made America so successful over the last several hundred years is that our sense of ourself is virtuous. We don't always act in accordance with our sense of ourselves. We don't always behave virtuously, but we aspire to virtue. That's what the Arththerian legend is to me. I think Steven Lawhead captured it beautifully in his novels, which I read as a teenager. I've wanted to to bring these to the screen every day since then. And when we had the opportunity to do it at Daily Wire, I thought that it was not only the fulfillment of, you know, sort of my
36:03 desire over the last 30 years, but really a fulfillment of the mission of the company to create culture, but not just to create culture, to create culture that that helps us to reconnect um to that to that identity that I think has been responsible for all the good that the West has done over the centuries. >> Yeah, I completely agree and that's what makes it so enjoyable. Um, just finally, what next for you? What are you going to do? I mean, you've you built a business worth a billion dollars. >> You sailed off into the sunset. You you've pulled a Lenin and McCartney with Ben. Um, it did eventually make up, so there's hope. But, you know, what what are you going to do? >> Yeah. >> Well, you know, I'm just going to do what I've always done. You know, I I want to help preserve our culture in story form. I want to uh have a voice in
36:51 national and and international politics. I want to criticize culture, of course, but I want to put more of my efforts into creating culture than I do criticizing it. You know, I'll have to find new mechanisms to do that. Now, outside of the Daily Wire, I think that I will I will in some ways uh have to focus on my own mission as independent from the the broader mission of of a big network, which is what, you know, I've always sort of been a bulldog in defense of of all of my hosts, even even Candace when she worked for me. uh and and now I have to find a way to to be to be a champion of of my own perspective and my own values and I'm I'm looking forward to that freedom. >> Well, Jeremy, great to have you back on Uncensored. Uh and really enjoy the conversation and best of luck to you.
37:38 >> Thank you very much, Pierce. >> Piers Morgan Unensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcast. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate, and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent uncensored media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.
