0:00 [Music] Hey friends, welcome back to another episode of the Bible unmuted. My name is Matthew Holstead. Thank you for tuning in. This podcast is all about carefully engaging scripture as an ancient text that offers timeless truth. And so I hope you find today's episode to be thoughtprovoking and encouraging. [Music] Today we dive into Revelation 20 and we'll be looking specifically at verses 1 through3. Now, this chapter, Revelation 20, is the focus of intense debate about the so-called millennial question, the thousand-year reign of Christ. And as I'm sure you already know, there are three primary or three
0:47 main views about the millennium. There is the premillennial view, there is the amillennial view, and then there's the postmillennial view. And it's interesting to me how all of revelation seems to unfortunately get tied into that question. You know, whenever you are studying Revelation, somebody might have asked you, okay, so what's your view on the millennium? I say it's interesting because that particular passage that deals with the millennium is just a small part in Revelation, at least explicitly. Now, what I want to do in this episode is introduce some of the background stuff that will help us to think carefully about that question. And then next week, we're going to dive further into the chapter. In fact, I think we'll just go ahead and finish up the chapter in the next episode. But
1:33 today, we're just going to launch in and do some intro stuff. All right. So, I mentioned the three views. There's the premillennial view and the allmillennial view and the postmillennial view. The premillennial view says that Christ will return before or pre the millennium. That's why it's called premillennial. So Christ shows up and then after he shows up, he sets up a thousand-year reign upon the earth. Okay? So the all millennial view is slightly different. This is the view that says that Christ's millennial reign has already begun. It is that time frame, that era between his first and second comingings. It is the church age. And so Jesus comes back um at the end of
2:22 the millennium and that's when judgment happens and the new creation and so forth and so on. It's called all millennial because anytime you put an a in front of a word, you um negate the word. And so sometimes all millennialists are accused of not believing in a millennium. And that's not true. All millennialists do believe in the millennium. It's just a different conception of the millennium. It is symbolic. It's longer than a literal thousand-year reign or a thou a literal thousand years. The postmillennial view is interesting and um prior to World War I, it was the predominant view here in the United States. It's the view that says that the church as the church as the gospel goes out as evangelism is um
3:10 being conducted throughout the world the idea is that the church will usher in the millennium. The world will be primed as it were for the king to return. And so the idea of a postmillennial conception is that Christ comes essentially at the tail end or after the millennium. It's an interesting view and as I said it was a popular view back in the day. Now if you want some good historical overview about these three positions I highly recommend checking out David Dilva's book Discovering Revelation. I mean it's a great book on a number of levels but specifically with respect to this question he'll he'll go into some of the the historical uh components of how the church has thought about this sort of thing and why there were there were various shifts in
3:56 thinking. So for example, early on the premillennial position was it seems a predominant position. Okay? And part of that likely says Dilova has to do with the fact that the church was persecuted early on. And so if you don't feel at home in the world then you're looking for a home elsewhere, right? And so this was the idea that the kingdom would be coming. And so because because the world was ran by tyrants back in those days um and and you know one one wonders if that has changed much but anyway that's another topic but um but these these are Christians they were looking forward to something they're looking forward to rescue and they had every motivation to look forward to rescue. All right. Now, all of this changed uh says Dilva
4:42 whenever Constantine becomes emperor and he not only allows but he welcomes Christianity as the official religion. And at this point, Christians begin to feel home in this world that they begin to think, my goodness, the kingdom has come. It seems um and so in under that understanding um you know the all millennial position begins to take hold and take foot that my goodness maybe maybe we are ruling and reigning with Christ right now during this symbolic millennium. Now of course one well-known proponent of this sort of thinking was St. Augustine in his book the city of God book 20 around the chapter 7 89 section is where you can find some of his musings on the subject. In fact, later on in this
5:27 episode, I'll refer back to him as well. At any rate, if you're interested in some of those historical shifts and the dynamics of belief about the millennium uh through the through the history of the church, I I would recommend David Dilva's book, Discovering Revelation. I've mentioned it a few times here on the podcast, but I want to go ahead and plug it here because it is very helpful. Now um before we jump into this whole discussion, I think it's good to just take a step back, take a breath and exercise some humility because I do know that this is a question that receives a lot of debate. As I said earlier, it's the subject of a lot of debate. I guess that's a better way to put it. I found it really helpful when I was reading through Craig Keenir's commentary. Craig
6:13 was on the podcast with his wife Maiden not too long ago, which by the way, you should go check that that that interview out. It was a lot of fun. Um, but at any rate, in Craig's commentary on Revelation, he he has a few thoughts on the way we should approach this question, and I just absolutely love the way he put it. And so, what I want to do is read three short quotes from his book. This comes from page 473 of his Revelation commentary. Here's what he says. He says, quote, "The two millennial views most widely held in different sections of Christendom today are premillennialism and all millennialism. Each has more arguments in its favor than advocates of the opposing position
6:58 generally recognize." I'm sorry, let me repeat that last line. He says, "Each has more arguments in its favor than advocates of the opposing position generally recognize." I love this this understanding of how to think through this text because it's recognizing that there are it seems two primary positions all millennialism and um premillennialism. Those are the two predominant ones. Postmillennialism has sort of fallen out of favor. Um as many commentators will say uh because because it's it's a fairly optimistic view about things and whenever World War I hit, it was a very gruesome war. Then World War II after that and the 20th century was very bloody on a number of other levels. The postmillennial optimism and outlook began to Wayne and
7:45 so that was in large part due to cultural factors. That's not to say of course you can't find postmillennialists out there. Uh but they are out there and they have a lot of a lot of things to say. But the two primary ones are the pre and the all right the premillennial and the a millennial. But I really like how he how he describes this with the within these two camps that both camps um they they they don't necessarily have a slam dunk in their favor that there are generally really good reasons for the opposing side says Kenir. And I think that's a really good approach to this question. He goes on on page 476 he adds some other thoughts. This is a paragraph. I'm going to go ahead and read the whole paragraph actually because it captures um kind of the way in which people think
8:31 about this topic and their uh respective methodologies if you will. So here's what he says on page 476. He says strong arguments are available for both millennial positions and tend to rise or fall on how one reads the rest of the Bible. In general, if one starts with Revelation 20, one will be premillennial. Starting from that premise, those so inclined can also apply many promises about national Israel to that period in a literal manner. Although Revelation 20 itself does not demand that we attribute the those promises to that period. If one starts with most New Testament passages about the end time, one will probably be a millennial and then need
9:17 to determine what to do with Revelation 20. Each view makes sense on its own presuppositions, but often sounds like special pleading to one who starts with different presuppositions. So, yeah, I'll just stop there. Yeah, I think that's a really good way to put it. Depends on on where you start the race um in in figuring this whole debate out. Depends where you start. It depends on your starting point. Are you starting with Revelation 20? Well, according to Kener, then you probably will end up premillennial. that becomes the driving motif through which you read everything else in scripture. But if you start with these other scriptural passages, then that might influence the way you you uh read Revelation 20. In other words, you're going to take Revelation 20 and sort of fit it into the mosaic that you're that you're creating with these other passages. I I found that to be
10:03 true myself. I think that's a really good observation. And so I just pass it along to you. One last quote from uh Krakenir. This comes from page 478. I love this quote. It's so good. He says this, "The Bible is a book big book and few of us have mastered it well enough to think we are beyond learning more." Let me repeat that because it is worth repeating. The Bible is a big book and few of us have mastered it well enough to think we are beyond learning more. Wonderful words from Craig Kenir on a topic that again is the center of much debate and sometimes much fury. Well, maybe not a lot of fury these days, uh, thankfully, but it does create very tense conversations sometimes. It is important to know that we can learn from
10:50 each other. So, that is a beautiful way to preface this whole discussion because what whatever your view ends up being, if it's slightly different than mine, that's okay. If it's a lot different than mine, that's quite okay. I have a lot to learn from you and I I would hope to think that I have a lot to offer as well. Um maybe you know my view even if it's not yours could uh help you see things in a better light when it comes to other texts. I don't know. This is how dialogue works. Everybody has their own position and everybody's in their own corner and we bring something to the middle and it's helpful especially when it's shared in Christian love. So I offer these musings to you in a spirit of Christian charity. Now, I have to also say that um I'm not just going to come out and tell you what what to
11:35 believe or um I'm going to I'm going to often speak in rather ambiguous ways. That is because I happen to agree with Craig Keener. There are lots of good arguments on both sides. So, I don't land anywhere very firmly. I think that there are really good arguments on both sides of the debate on all these different sides. I mean uh postmillennial postmillennialism I love the optimism of it even and so there are some uh things that I think are helpful with that view as well. So um I think I think what I'm primarily interested in doing in in these discussions though is not so much um finding the right answers but finding the right questions to ask. And so this is where I want to begin. What sort of questions do we need to ask? In other words, when it comes to
12:21 understanding Revelation 20, what sort of questions are necessary to ask so that we can open the right doors into this incredible passage? Well, one question is we need to ask what is the relationship between Revelation 19 and Revelation 20? What is the relationship between Revelation 19 and Revelation 20? If you see it as a chronological relationship, in other words, Revelation 20 follows chronologically from the events that happen in Revelation 19, then you're probably going to be premillennial. Okay? Because in Revelation 19, Jesus shows up. He shows up before the millennial. So, it's a premillennial showing up, right? Um, however, if you see it more as a recapitulation, a retelling of these
13:07 stories, then, um, arguably you might end up being all millennial. For those who are watching the podcast via video, you'll see on the screen that I've highlighted in green these words, then I saw. So, Revelation 20 begins, then I saw an angel coming down from heaven. You'll notice that that phrase, then I saw occurs in Revelation 19 as well. Revelation 19:1 17, then I saw an angel standing in the sun. Revelation 19:1, then I saw heaven opened. And you get these refrains, these uh repetitions of this phrase, then I saw because John is reporting to you that he is seeing yet another vision. Then I saw, then I saw, then I saw in Revelation 20:4, then I saw thrones and so forth and so on. And
13:53 I think this is a very interesting uh juncture that we need to stop and take a breather and say, okay, what do we do with this? Is John reporting something chronologically? In other words, he's is he saying then I saw next in the order of sequential events or is he saying then I saw a vision that is um you're going to recapitulate all the other stuff that came before? Well, these are the questions that we need to ask and they push us to answer them. You know, we have to make some interpretive moves. We have to make some interpretive decisions. Um so it's anyway as as you begin to dive into this text again, it's all about finding the right questions to ask. And you might think, well, I don't know where to begin. How do I start finding the right questions to ask? You begin by noticing things in the text that repeat. When the text repeats itself, then I saw, then I saw, then I
14:40 saw, then I saw. Then then that should bring up on your radar that this is something important, right? And then you might ask, well, why is it important? And see, that's the question to ask. That's the that's the first question to ask. Okay, there are other things as well. So, I'm also interested in the way in which Revelation 20 mirrors Revelation 12. I'll talk more about this in just a moment, but I just want to toss it out there. I notice in Revelation 20 very similar phrases, words, concepts, and events that that sure sound like Revelation 12. I say this is important because as mo many commentators will point out, Revelation 12 is the center of the book. And so when I see something repeating the central message of the book, then I've got again on my radar
15:25 something pinging. I got to say, okay, what is going on with this repetition? All right. Um All right. So we move on. How um how are we to interpret uh the uh the the the binding of Satan? So Satan is bound in Revelation 20. It says he is bound, thrown in prison. An angel does this and throws him away for a thousand years. So what does it mean for a devious angel or a devious spiritual being such as Satan? What does it mean for him to be bound? And is there precedent in old in in uh the the Bible for uh the binding of something especially sinister spiritual beings? The answer to that question is yes there is. Now another question to ask is okay what about in Jewish literature in non-cononical Jewish literature um are
16:11 there other texts that we could point to to help us to think through what it means to bind Satan? And the answer to that question is yes. And so we'll be looking at some of that later. Um anyway, so yeah, let's let's move on. Um speaking of a thousand years, he's bound for a thousand years. So what do we do with a thousand? That number is really intriguing. Should we interpret it literally? Should we interpret it symbolically? Again, that's the right question to ask. And it's a question that divides many Christians, many good Christians on both sides of that question. But it is one that we need to address. And I will address what I think about that in this section in this episode today. Um, another important question that commentators ask is why does Satan get released? So, if you read in Revelation
16:56 20, you'll notice that he's not only bound for a thousand years, but after the thousand years has ended, he is released and he goes off and does some bad stuff. Now, the question would be, why is he released? What's the point of him being released? We're going to be looking at that question as well. The final question I think is that is important in asking a final question I think is helpful to ask so that we can understand what's going on in this text is this next question. When Satan is released after the thousand years he it says he goes off and he's he's going to go off to deceive and build an army to wage war against God and God's people. The question is who is he out to deceive? like because under premillennial uh the premillennial view that might be problematic because Jesus
17:42 has set up a literal thousand-y year reign on the earth and so it goes on for a thousand years. It's bliss. It's it's total peace. It's great. Um so Satan is released after that and then who is he out to deceive at that point? Now this is not a slam dunk against premillennialism. There are answers to that question but it is nonetheless a question worth asking and it's a data point that we do need to consider. All right. So, let's just jump back in to the these parallels that I mentioned a moment ago. Namely, the the the similarities that we see between Revelation 20 and verse 12. Honestly, I'm not going to do a whole lot with this. I just want to toss it out there for now and just illustrate the ways in which these two passages mirror one another. Okay. So, in Revelation 20, I'm
18:30 going to go ahead and read verses 1 through three. And if again, if you're following along on the video, I've got this pulled up on the screen in uh two panels so that you can compare Revelation 20 and 12. I've got it highlighted in pretty colors and so you'll be able to spot the similarities here in these texts. All right, so Revelation 20:es 1-3 says this, and I'm reading from the English Standard Version. It says, "Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain, and he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit and shut it, and sealed it over time, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer until the thousand years were ended. And after
19:16 that, he must be released for a little while." Okay. So, that's uh that's the text that we're going to be dealing with today. I want to draw some comparisons. When you look at Revelation 12, starting at verse 7, you're going to see some similarities. It says, "Now war arose in heaven. Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, but he was defeated and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down. that ancient serpent who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was thrown down to the earth and his angels were thrown down with him. Revelation 12 7-9. Okay, so the first thing I want to notice here is the activity of an angel
20:03 in Revelation 20. It is not God who binds Satan, at least not directly. It is an angel who comes down from heaven. He's got a key in his hand to the bottomless pit and he seizes the dragon and he throws him there. It's an angel who does that. I can't help but remind myself of a quote from CS Lewis and it's a helpful quote. It says that um God's opposite is not Satan. The opposite of Satan is Michael the Archangel, not God. It's not. You know, sometimes we think of God versus Satan as if they're two equals. I mean, sometimes that that's how the language gets thrown out, but that's not the truth. God is um is the Almighty. There's none like him. you know, anybody who rebelss against him is rebelling as his inferiors, right? And so here we see that uh that an angel, a
20:50 good angel is quite capable of seizing the dragon. Uh Satan is a pitiful, rebellious creature and he he when it comes when it comes to uh fighting against the armies of heaven, he stands no chance. So anyway, I just want to toss that out there because I think it is helpful to notice that an angel is the one who's binding who is imprisoning the devil. Now in Revelation 12, it was also an angel who cast Satan down. It was an angel who did the warfare, right? So um here it is Michael, the archangel. Michael, of course, being the protector angel of God's people. And here he is the one doing the fighting. Now, of course, we talked about in our episode in Revelation 12 that that the reason Satan is cast down has to do with the
21:36 ascension of Jesus, right? So I don't want to negate that. That's the most important thing that we need to highlight. But when it when it comes to the um the direct activity of these angels, uh we see it highlighted here, a war between them and Michael of course being the victor and he casts Satan down. All right? So you notice that it's the activity of angels on both sides in Revelation 20 and in Revelation 12. What's other what's also interesting is the way Satan is described. In Revelation 20, he's called that dragon, the ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan. In Revelation 12, it's the same thing. He says, "The great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent who was called the devil and Satan." Very similar language. And of course, commentators are going to pick up on that and they're going to um highlight that just as I've highlighted it here. I think it's a data point that we need to keep in mind that things are mirroring
22:23 each other. Another interesting thing here, and I don't want to make too much of this, but I do think it's worth uh talking about is how in Revelation 20, Satan is thrown into the pit. He is thrown into the pit. Now, here it's the abyss. That's how you would translate it. The into the abyss. Actually, the abyss would be a transliteration. Um, but anyway, that's beside the point. Um, but it's the word here. It's the preposition ace in Greek and it's into the pit. Now, whenever you look and compare this to Revelation 12, it says Satan was thrown down to the earth. That's how the English standard version translate. It says it says thrown down to the earth. Um, it's interesting because the preposition there is still ace. He's thrown into the earth. I don't know. I don't want to make much of this, but there is enough similarity here
23:09 because in both cases, Satan is being thrown down and it seems he's being thrown ace into something into another realm, you might say. Right. Um, okay. So, yeah, I think that's something to highlight. Um, now in both of these texts, in Revelation 20 and Revelation 12, Satan is hindered from doing something. In Revelation 20, he is uh he is uh cast into the pit so that he doesn't deceive the nations any any longer. Okay, that's the purpose of of imprisoning uh the devil. Um now in uh Revelation 12, he's also hindered. Now, you might ask, well, what is he hindered from doing after being cast out of heaven? Well, I think the assumption here is that he can no longer accuse God's people. He no longer has a place in the heavenly realm before God to
23:57 accuse God's people. But why not? Well, because Jesus has paid the price. He's ransomed the people and he's rescued the people and because he has taken his throne, there is literally no more room for an an accuser such as the devil, such as the accuser, right? So, he's cast down. So, uh by being cast down, he has been hindered from accusing people. So, I find it interesting that both of these texts actually show that his being cast down uh hinders him from doing something. Again, just a data point. I think it is worth mentioning. Okay, the last point that I want to mention here is it might take it just a bit to explain it. But um when you look at Revelation 20 specifically down further into the text, which we won't get into these verses until later, but if you uh that is we won't get into them
24:42 until later in the next episode. But if you read down in Revelation 20 versus 7 and following, um it talks about how that when the devil is released, he goes off and he starts gathering the nations for a battle. Um it's a it's a great big battle, right? So that's after his release. Um so so you you see that same sort of structure in Revelation 12 through9. Okay. So in Revelation 12, of course, Satan is cast down to the earth and he's furious because he's cast to the earth and he tries to, you know, he's tried to devour the child that was born, but he's hindered from doing that. And so he uh summons two monsters, one from the ocean, one one from the sea, one from the land, and they go off and do really bad things. They become this
25:29 sort of political socopolitical entity that the devil uses in a sense to persecute the world. And of course, we have already seen later in Revelation 19 how uh the uh uh the beast gather the nations for war against against the rider on the white horse. So for example, it says in Revelation 199 19 it says, "And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army." Okay. So my point is to say Revelation 12 kicks off a series of events that um that in which we see Satan fall from heaven and we see him gather two monsters who gather the armies who eventually in chapter 19 begin to um
26:15 wage war against the Messiah. Okay. So, in other words, Revelation 12-19 tells a story that seems to be repeated in Revelation 20. Here we have um Satan doing that very thing, gathering the nations for this final battle. All right. So, the reason I'm comparing Revelation 12 with Revelation 20 is because I want to tease out the idea or at least entertain the possibility that Revelation 20 is recapitulating some of the stuff that went before. Now, this is not a slam dunk in that favor, right? And maybe an all millennialist would say, "Absolutely. Yeah, this is this is exactly what we believe that Revelation 20 recapitulates stuff, right?" Well, before we jump into that, we we we can we can acknowledge that it's not a slam
27:00 dunk, but there seems to be data that might support that position. So, maybe Revelation 20 is recapitulating some of the themes that we see in Revelation 12-19 in some sort of condensed form. So, Revelation 20 is like a condensed form of some of that other stuff, right? But maybe not, right? Premillennialists could come along and say, "Well, no, not at all. That's that's not that's not how we should read it. What we should see is how Satan is kind of taking steps in his fall. He's in heaven, then he's kicked to the earth, and then from the earth he's kicked into to a pit." And so, yeah, a premillennialist could say that there is there is repetition, but it's not anti-chronological repetition. Maybe as time goes on, Satan continues to fall one step further down into the abyss
27:47 into something which in which he later finds himself in the lake of fire, like the ultimate uh dead end, right? And so maybe I think as one commentator said, maybe history is just repeating itself, but it maybe it's repeating itself chronologically. You see what I mean? So um I hate to put a fire on our all millennialist viewpoint here. Uh but I do but I do think that's a reasonable position. In other words, the recapitulation idea makes sense, but it's not the only game in town. The non-recapitulation view, in other words, the chronological view has something going for it as well. Again, it all depends on what you do with some of these texts. It depends on what you do with the relationship between Revelation 19 and Revelation 20. Hey everyone, I want to interrupt for just a moment to say thank you to all our supporters on Patreon. As a listener supported
28:33 podcast, a Patreon membership helps to keep everything up and running. Thank you so much for your partnership. If you're interested in learning how you can support the show, visit our Patreon page. Every supporter gets access to a ton of bonus content from blogs, videos, book giveaways to monthly meetings. It's all there. So check it out. Visit patreon.com/thebible unmuted or click the link in the description for this episode. Thank you for your prayers each and every week and your support each and every month. It helps me do what I do. All right, friends. Let's get back to today's discussion. All right, so let's just keep moving. Okay, I'm just again I'm thinking of the questions. I'm I'm not really good at giving answers. I I think I'm decent asking the right questions. And uh so here we are asking the questions. Let's keep going. What's up
29:19 with binding? What's going on with binding? All right. Well, I'm glad you asked that question. Uh the the binding as I said is meant to keep the enemy keep Satan from deceiving the nations. All right. So let me let me go to Revelation 20. Uh it says in uh let's just say verse two. It says he sees them the angel sees the dragon that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan bound him for a thousand years. That word bound is de and it it you know to bind something to wrap it up. um to bind it for a thousand years and threw him into the pit and shut it and sealed it over him so that he might not deceive the nations any longer until the thousand years had an ended or were ended. After that he must be released for a little while. So I mentioned earlier that there
30:06 was precedent for the idea of binding spiritual entities both in canonical literature and in um in uh pseudopagraphical texts. All right. So to illustrate this point, let me go to the book of Tobat. Um Tobit for Protestants is apocryphal. For uh Catholics and others, it's going to be due canonical. In other words, it's going to be definitely part of the Bible. So this would be a text depending on your tradition is either non-cononical or canonical. But anyway, it is still a very important text. And by the way, if you're a Protestant, you need to read these texts. They're very, very important. Uh so that you can build a conceptual framework for how to think about some of the New Testament stuff. It's super helpful. at least I teach a class on this at Eternity College every year and it's one of my favorite classes. It's called Jewish and Greco
30:52 Roman backgrounds of the New Testament and this is the sort of stuff we read. We read the book of Tobit. It's a lot of fun. Uh maybe on the podcast we can go through Tobit or something. But anyway, in Tobit 8:es 1-3 we see that an angel or a demon rather is bound by the angel Raphael. Okay. It says, "When they had finished eating and drinking, they wanted to retire. So they took the young man and brought him into the bedroom. Then Tobias remembered the words of Raphael. That's that's one of the powerful angels. And he took the fish's liver and heart out of the bag where he had then where he had them and put them on the embers of the incense. The odor of the fish so repelled the demon that he fled to the remotest parts of Egypt. But Raphael followed him and at once bound him there hand and foot. Okay, you're probably thinking, "What in the world is this context?" Well, I'm not
31:37 going to tell you. You just need to go read Tobbit. Um, but my point in bringing this up is to say that there is precedent in the literature, in the Jewish literature, of one angel bounding or binding another angel in the earth. Isn't that interesting? All right. So, John's not making stuff up. He's operating in this conceptual framework or in this world view. We also see the same thing in first Enoch. All right. So, Protestants and Catholics and Orthodox are going to be agreed that Enoch is not a canonical literature. Of course, if you're part of the Ethiopian church, you would think that this is canonical. So, uh, so for some Christians, it is, but nonetheless, uh, for I I would say most of us, it's not, but it's still a very important text, First Enoch. In First Enoch, of course, you have this sort of commentary, this,
32:22 uh, telling of the Genesis 6 story in in in in more depth. So Genesis 6 1-4 records how these sons of God, these spiritual entities, they come down, they procreate with women and uh they they end up producing uh hybrids or Jew uh for uh uh the the the Jewish understanding of this and and I have to say this all across the board. The Jewish understanding of this text is exactly how I explain it. It's a literal it's a uh it's not like you know the the the modern Sethite view that that that doesn't seem to be the case uh in in the ancient world. They they they legit believe that um uh and they were there was a strong consensus that these were spiritual creatures coming down to the earth and they were procreating with women and creating these sort of these
33:08 giants, if you will, right? And um this is stuff that that uh you know today we might look at and say, "Ah, that's just really weird. I don't know if I can believe that." But it's very clear in the first century that the early Christians believe this as well. That does shift a little bit with Augustine. Augustine sort of takes us into left field and he gives a different opinion about that. But earlier before him, uh, this was the consensus view. As far as I know at least, this was the consensus view. At any rate, Enoch is going to tell us more about all of that event. And he's going to depict it in a way that shows how Jewish people uh viewed that event. This was not a good thing. In other words, that these uh spiritual beings rebelled against God in this way and procreated with women. And so, they were going to be judged. And Enoch was going to be the one to announce the judgment that would come upon them. And
33:55 so anyway, part of this involves the good angels such as Michael um who we see in Revelation 12. Michael is going to have a role in bringing judgment upon these rebellious spiritual creatures that procreated with women. And so God tells Michael, and I'm going to read this passage here. God says to Michael in 1 Enoch 10:1, it says, "And to Michael, God said, make known to Simyaza." Simyaza was one of the spiritual beings that rebelled. make known to Samyaza and the others who are with him, who fornicated with women, that they will die together with them in their in all their defilement. And when they and all their children have battled with each other, and when they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them for 70 generations underneath the rocks of the ground until the day of
34:40 their judgment and of their consummation, until the eternal judgment is concluded. In those days they will lead them into the bottom of the fire and in torment in the prison where they will be locked up forever. And at that time they will burn and die. Those who collaborated with them will be bound together with them. And uh from I'm sorry, bound together with them from henceforth until the end of all generations. If you're looking on the screen, I've underlined in blue the word bind and bound. And in some Greek uh extent manuscripts, the word there is deo. It's the same word that's used in Revelation 20. So, all to say, there is precedent for the binding of sinister spiritual beings in both canonical and non-cononical literature. We'll actually look at some stuff in the Gospel of Mark in just a little bit. Um, but but
35:27 anyway, this is this is where we're seeing this. Um, so yeah, what do we say about this? Well, in these texts, we see that this binding is temporary and it's it's to uh sort of keep them in a holding pattern until the final judgment comes. Now, that that works for a premillennial and all millennial view with respect to the binding of Satan in Revelation 20. It's sort of a holding thing that Satan is hindered for a time. So, an allmillennialist would say he's hindered for all of the church age until he's put into the lake of fire. Um, and and the premillennialists would say, "No, he's he's not hindered now, but he will be, and that's a holding pattern for him to wait until he goes into the lake of fire." So, it's very consistent with the structure that we see in the book of Tobat. Okay? Uh, I'm sorry. In in the book of 1 obit, it's a little different, but it's still part of that
36:13 same conceptual universe. So, what's up with binding? That's what's up with binding. All right. So, then we're going to move to a next question. Um, how should we understand the the thousand years? Is this a literal thousand years? Well, as many commentators point out is like, well, it doesn't have to be. Okay. So, for example, the famous verse that everybody points to is Psalm 50 10. It says, "For every beast of the forest is mine, the cattle on a thousand hills." This is God speaking and he's saying, "I own everything." It's not to suggest that he doesn't own the cattle on the thousand1st hill or the thousand and2nd hill. No, no, no. It's not literal. A thousand here just means everything or a whole bunch, right? And so, here's a a
37:00 way of of illustrating how a thousand doesn't have to be literal. We have to remember in revelation that numbers hold high symbolic value 144,000. Right? So there you have a multiple of 12 and a multiple of a thousand. And so those two multiples come together to do some really cool things with respect to how to understand the fullness of God's people. We've talked about that before, but that's an illustration of how a number can hold symbolic uh weight, right? um the the number seven, the number uh 666. I mean numbers are used throughout revelation in highly symbolic ways. We've already talked about 666. This was
37:46 a a symbol for a name. All right? And so we have to come back to Revelation 20 without forgetting all that stuff about numbers in Revelation 20. Why should we suppose that 1,000 ought to mean a literal 1,000? We don't have to suppose that at all. Now, all millennialists would of course at this point say, "Absolutely, Matt. That's what we've been saying. You don't have to suppose it's a literal thousand years. It could be, I don't know, 2,000 years or 3,000 years." It's not literal. It's symbolic. A premillennialist, most of them, at least, at least the ones I've hung around in the past, they're going to typically insist on something along the lines of a literal 10,000 years. Part of that has to do with the way they read Revelation as a whole. They like to read
38:32 it chronologically, which has a sense of literalness to it. You might say, by the way, I hate that word literal. What does literal literally mean? I don't know. But anyway, they read Revelation uh just in chronological ways. That that's, you know, and and so that sort of has a a feel to it that um you know, it's it's not as I guess creative as a recapitulating view. And so because that feels more literal, they're going to interpret other things more literally, too. But I have to caveat this. This is not a slam dunk against premillennialists. Because if you're a premillennialist, you don't have to believe that it's a literal thousand years. You can say, "Okay, I get it. A thousand may be symbolic, but it's still going to be a premillennial thousandear understanding. In other words, Jesus will come back and set up a symbolic
39:18 thousand years, and then he's going to let the devil go for a while, and then he's going to put him away for eternity. that works just fine in a premillennial understanding of things. So, just throwing that out there. Again, you have to make a lot of interpretive decisions and there's a lot of good arguments on both sides. Okay. The other question that we asked initially was why must the the the devil be released? I think it's a such a great question. I think I would answer that question by saying, well, why must any of the wicked angels be released? And you're you might be thinking, well, what other angels? Well, we have to go back to Revelation 9 to see what I mean. When you go back to Revelation chapter 9 and you look at the fifth and the sixth trumpets, you'll see that in those passages, things these sinister beings are being released. So,
40:03 let's look at the sixth trumpet first. In Revelation 9, starting at 13, uh we'll see something really, really interesting. It says that then the sixth angel blew his trumpet and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar before God saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates. That word bound is deo. It's the same word. So we've already seen uh sinister spiritual beings being bound previously all the way back to Revelation chapter 9. I think that's really interesting. It's very important data you got to keep in mind. So again, is this recapitulating a story or is it just retelling the same the same story as the chronological story progresses? Well, that's that's the million-dollar
40:49 question. It's the thousand question. That's a better way to put it. Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Ephraus. So the four angels were released who had been held ready for the hour, the day, the month, and the year to kill a third of mankind. The number of troops of Calvary was 200 million. I heard their number, and this was how I saw the horses in my vision. And then it goes on and and talks a little bit more specifically about these sorts of beings that that come that come about. But nonetheless, um it's a calvary. It's a 200 million armed calvary. And uh it's the last battle. It's exactly what you see in Revelation 20 with when another sinister being is being released. He goes off and builds an army. And again, it sounds so I don't know recapitulary. That's just something that I think we need to keep in mind.
41:34 But my point here is to say uh or rather to answer the question, why are they being released? Well, they're being released is just part of the judgment cycle itself. This is part of the the seven trumpets. It is one of the three major uh uh cycles of judgment. And and we we recall how we've we've looked at Revelation and we've said that judgment operates by allowing evil to implode on itself. So if the world insists on worshiping demons, then demons is exactly what the world will get. And once the demons are released and they they go about they go about like locusts and they eat up everything. The demons are destructive. They're not constructive. They destroy things including the people that worship them. And if people refuse to repent and come back to God, then according to the Revelation narrative, they will reap
42:20 what they have sown. They will be given the very thing that they want. And that will prove to be their own undoing. Again, we're seeing this whole idea of reciprocal judgment come back and back and back again, over and over again. Um, one might say it's a theme that is recapitulated all the time through Revelation. So, uh, then when we go and we look at the beginning of Revelation 9, which is the fifth trumpet, we see something very similar. It says, "And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit." Oh my goodness. Think about this. What? This is what we read in Revelation 20. At least it seems to be a star. Here is an angel. It's angel language. It comes down. It has a key to a pit. That sounds like the good angel
43:08 in Revelation 20 that has a key to a pit in which he locks Satan up for a while. All right. It's a data point. He opened the shaft of the bottomless pit. And from the shaft rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air was were darkened. With the smoke from the shaft. Then from the smoke came locust on the earth and they were given authority like the authority of scorpions of the earth. They were told uh not to damage the grass of the earth or any green growth or any tree but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. They were allowed to torment them for 5 months but not to kill them. And their torture was like the torture of a scorpion when it stings someone. So again this is part of the judgment cycle. They are released because that's just how judgment is going to operate in the book of revelation. Judgment is all about giving people what they want. They want demons.
43:53 They want to worship demons. They're going to get demons and we're going to have to unlock the pit in which they are imprisoned and let them out. Okay. Okay. So, um what do we do with all of this? What do we do? Um uh what what how do we how do we put these pieces, these these puzzles together? Well, I think what we can say about the release of these bound devils, if you will, is that they are they are it's a way of limiting their destruction. So, they're bound though they are released, but even in their release, they are still limited. So, for example, we just read in Revelation 9:5, it says they were allowed to torment them for five months. And it was it was given to them. They were allowed to do
44:39 this for only five months. Why five months? Well, such an odd number. quite literally an odd number. And I think it's just meant to say that they don't get away with much, right? Um there there are things that they're going to do, but God's still going to hold them back uh some. And they're allowed they're not allowed to kill people. So there are constant restraints. So this is another theme in Revelation is that these sinister spiritual beings are not given full reign. They're given limited reign for a purpose, right? And as we saw previously, these judgment cycles are meant to elicit repentance. And people, of course, that's sad because sometimes people don't want to repent and that's just part of it. But all to say, binding here seems to limit them. There there's there's always a limit on these these creatures, right? The ultimate limit, it seems, is is binding them up for some for some reason. Okay.
45:28 So, kind of backing up, going back to Revelation 20, it says, "A, you know, I I think well, let let me just pause for a moment and and jump into something here. I I think a case could be made that what we're seeing in Revelation 20 about Satan's being bound, I'm just going to go ahead and say it. What we see in Revelation 20 about Satan's being bound, a case could be made that it's just another way to describe how he is limited. Just like these these other descriptions in Revelation describe this as well. It's just but only the difference being in Revelation 20, we're not talking about, you know, multiple different angels being bound. We're talking about the ring leader of the angels. It's sort of uh funneling in its focus on the ring leader in Revelation 20. Previous to that, we we are focused on all sorts of demons and locust demons
46:15 and two monsters, one from the sea, one from the ocean and so forth. But here here in Revelation 20, we are focusing on the ring leader. Okay? So, a a case could be made that this is a recapitulation story. It's a story that's told for the teenth time, right? uh but this time it's told from the perspective of what's going on with the ring leader with Satan. Okay, I think that's one reasonable way to to talk about it. But the other difference in Revelation 20 is that the text there is telling us how and in what way he is limited. Okay, so he he's limited in Revelation 20 and his being bound by the fact that he cannot deceive the nations. And perhaps arguably it could be the case this is a way to describe the
47:01 church age. Okay, we are told for example in the gospel stories that hell cannot stand against the advancement of the church. We are told in the gospel stories that Satan is defeated by the gospel. Right? I mean this is this is the whole idea of Jesus's ministry, his life death crucifixion and um his going uh into Hades and his coming up victoriously in resurrection and his ascension. Okay. Um, and and Revelation 20 is is I think really important in that respect because it could be telling that story in albeit a very focused sort of way in a way that hasn't quite been told previously in Revelation. It could, in other words, be a total recapitulation of what's going on. Um, now, so an all millennialist is
47:50 if you're an all millennialist, you're like clapping your hands and you're saying, "Yeah, yeah, we got Matt on our team." Um, but let me throw a caveat here. Clearly though, one could also reasonably make the case that prior to Revelation 20, the devil is exactly I mean he is doing exactly that. He is deceiving the nations. I mean he's doing it through the beasts, right? But nonetheless, indirectly or directly, whatever the case, he is deceiving the nations in Revelation uh well, prior to everything, Revelation 20, right? That's exactly what he's doing. He is the deceiver. But something shifts in Revelation 20 where he's no longer capable of doing that. And so all of a sudden the premillennialists are applauding what I've just said and they're they're um they're they're
48:35 agreeing with everything that I'm saying here. Well, although let me caveat even this. Elsewhere, Jesus does seem to say in the Gospels that Satan has already been judged during Jesus's lifetime 2,000 years ago at the start of the church age. So when we look at the gospel of John for example this is exactly what we see Jesus answered he says now is starting let's see John 12:31 he says now is the judgment of this world now will the ruler of this world be cast out and when I am lifted up from the earth will draw all people to myself in other words the idea is that in Jesus's ministry I think specifically as we see with his death burial resurrection and ascension that's
49:20 the moment where Satan is cast out of heaven in Revelation 12. We've seen this, right? Revelation 12 stuff. And then at that point, he he can draw all people to himself. Why? Because the devil can't deceive the nations anymore. That the gospel will advance. And the gospel is itself almost the the way that Satan is bound, right? Um it's interesting. St. Augustine in his book, The City of God, uh book 20, uh chapter 7, as I recall, he talks about what is it, he asked the question, what does it mean for Satan to be bound in the abyss? He says, well, it means that that Satan is bound in the abyss of the wicked heart. That's what he says. He gives this highly symbolic sort of way of understanding the uh the imprisonment or the the binding of Satan. And to be honest with you, I don't think he's far off. Uh I think that's a very creative
50:06 way of seeing it, of course. And there's a part of me is like, okay, you're you're stretching things just a little bit. But then part of me is like, no, actually he's not. Uh Revelation is a highly symbolic book book full of all sorts of different signs and symbols as we've seen. And so uh for for Augustine the binding of Satan is itself a symbol that Satan has been bound in the heart of of the the obstinant of the wicked those who say no to Jesus uh and whatnot. We see in Mark that word deo come up quite prominently in my opinion. Um Jesus says uh Jesus is accused of casting out demons through the prince of demons and so forth. And Jesus says uh Mark chapter 3 23 says how can Satan cast out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself that kingdom cannot stand
50:51 and if a house is divided against itself that house will not be able to stand. And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided he cannot stand but is coming to an end. But no one can enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods unless he first binds the strong man. That's the word dao. Binds the strong man. Then indeed he may plunder the house. Here Jesus does seem to be referring to Satan and he does seem to be referring to Satan's being bound and he is telling us who is doing the binding. It's the work in the ministry of the Messiah himself. All right, I've won back all my all millennial audience and I'm hearing your applause loud and clear. Um because it does seem that Jesus is saying Satan that has been cast out and has been bound as a result of his ministry. We
51:36 could even proceed to the great commission. We know this story quite well at the end of the book. Go therefore and make disciples. Oh, let me back up. It says, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and Son and the Holy Spirit." All right, so Jesus is saying, "All authority has been given to me. There's not one microscopic tidbit that hasn't been given to me. And I'm telling you, go out and get the nations." All the nations. Right now, I've underlined on the screen here all the nations. Why did I do that? because that's the point of Revelation 20 in the binding of Satan so that he will not deceive the nations. And I think this is a very powerful argument that I think all millennialists have in their arsenal to show that that
52:22 view makes the best sense of the whole sweep of scripture and the gospel and uh the gospels uh as we have them in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. There are other texts I think in Paul's writings that we could pull from that would reinforce this all millennial interpretation and so on. So, um I I think it's a powerful argument. Not going to lie, guys. I think I think the amalennial position has something going for it. Um that said, as I mentioned, I'm going to close up with this, but as I mentioned earlier, um the premillennial position was it seems the fairly dominant view early on. And in fact, the Jewish lit literature seems to attest to this, right? So if you read commentaries on this, they're often going to point out how uh in the Jewish
53:08 literature, this idea of an intermediate kingdom, a messianic intermediate kingdom was was sort of uh the big game that was being played back in the day. In other words, it was the story being told. This was the hope that people had about the Messiah. He would show up, have an intermediate kingdom, there'd be like a final war, and then all things would be well after that. And that's the that's essentially the premillennial position. Um there are other there's several texts uh that we could point to. One that I do want to point to is a text called fourth Ezra. Now there's a well what do I say about fourth Ezra? It it was written uh it first of all it's a composite text meaning that um it it it comes to us um after the result of of editors. The core part of it is called the apocalypse of
53:54 Ezra. This is chapters 3 through 14. Um I think that's right. Yeah. 3 through 14. and um uh that it was a Jewish writing written sometime around AD 100. So it's a contemporary to the to the revelation text that we've been studying. Um and therefore it makes for really important uh a really important u text from which we can pull data and compare to revelation. Um so anyway, yeah, but the first chapters of the first two chapters and the last two chapters of fourth Ezra were probably added a couple hundred years after it was written by Christ by a Christian editor. Anyway, we don't have to get into all of that, but suffice it to say in the apocalypse uh of Ezra, the the the central part in chapter 7, we see an intermediate kingdom idea that would be
54:41 it seems consistent with a premillennial view of things, right? And again, this is AD 100 when this is written. So, it's a contemporary to revelation. Let me read this. It's fourth Ezra 7:es 26. Let's just read the whole thing. We've got time. Uh 26-44. For behold, the time will come when the signs which I have foretold to you will come to pass. The city which now is not seen shall appear, and the land which now is hidden shall be disclosed, and everyone who has been delivered from the evils that I have foretold shall see my wonders. For my son, the Messiah, shall be revealed with those who are with him, and those who remain shall rejoice 400 years. This is a 400-year kingdom, which is interesting. It's not a thousand here in this text at least, but um it's it's still an intermediate kingdom, as you'll see. 400 years. And after these years,
55:27 my son, the Messiah, shall die, and all who draw human breath. And the world shall be turned back to primeval silence for seven days, as it was at the first beginning, so that no one shall be left. And after the seven days, the world which is not yet awake shall be roused, and that which is corruptible shall perish, and the earth shall give up those who are asleep in it, and the chambers shall give up the souls which have been committed to them. And the most high shall be revealed upon the seed of judgment, and compassion shall pass away, and patience will be withdrawn, but judgment alone shall remain. Truth shall stand, and faithfulness shall grow strong, and recompense shall follow, and the reward shall be manifested. Righteous deeds shall awaken, and righteous deeds shall not sleep. Then the pit of torment shall appear, and opposite it shall be the place of rest, and the furnace of hell shall be disclosed, and opposite the
56:13 paradise of delight. Then the most high will say to the nations that have been raised from the dead, look now and understand whom you have denied, whom you have not served, whose commandments you have despised. Look on this side and on that. Here are delight and rest. And there are fire fire and torments. Thus he will speak to them on the day of judgment. day. A day that has no sun or moon or stars or cloud or thunder or lightning or wind or water or or air or darkness or evening or morning or summer or spring or heat or winter or frost or cold or hail or rain or dew or noon or night or dawn or shining or brightness or light, but only the splendor of the Lord, a splendor of the glory of the most high by which all shall see what has been determined for them. For it will last for about a week of years.
56:58 This is my judgment and its prescribed order and to you alone have I shown these things. It's really that first part that we talked about uh or that I just read here in verse 28 says for my son the Messiah shall be revealed with those who are with him and those who remain shall rejoice 400 years and after these years my son the Messiah shall die and all who draw human breath and the world shall be turned back to permeable silence and so forth. So, and of course after that you have final judgment, fire, torment, all that stuff, right? My point is to say that this is a text that seems to illustrate an intermediate messianic kingdom before the final final final things, right? That would be consistent with the premillennial view. So, I've
57:44 lost all of my all millennial friends because what I've done is just highlighted the fact that the um uh the premillennial position or the premillennial structure for understanding the end times is a very old understanding. And one has to wonder maybe John is thinking along these lines right? Yeah, maybe. So, I mean, again, a premillennial reading of Revelation 19 and Revelation 20 makes sense. You can make a strong case for that. And perhaps that's what we well clearly other Jews were thinking somewhat along those lines. Was John Was John thinking along those lines? Premillennialists are going to say, "Yep, absolutely." But maybe not. Right? So hold on all millennial friends, I've got one more
58:30 line of defense that perhaps would make you cheery. Um suppose it is the case that this was the predominant position, but maybe John doesn't believe it. Maybe this is not what John is talking about. But maybe he wants to incorporate the basic idea of that structure into another way of seeing things. Okay, what do I mean by that? Well, you know, we have to understand the resurrection of Jesus. It all goes back to the resurrection of Jesus early Jews believed that at the end of the world, at the end of time, resurrection would happen. And and by that I mean everybody would be resurrected at the same time. at the end of history. But what we see with Jesus is that he was resurrected in the middle of
59:16 history. This is a point that Eny Wright has rightly uh made in many of his books that this would have been shocking to the disciples. What? Wait, wait, we have resurrection in the middle of history. What does that possibly mean? Now Jesus is the only one who resurrects it seems in right on uh on Easter day and then our resurrection it seems is postponed uh for a later time. All right so so you sort of have these two resurrection ideas you have one in the middle of history one at the end of history right now it is also true that in the meantime as we await our resurrection we can still participate in the life of resurrection in the resurrection of Jesus. So if you read Romans chapter 6, that's exactly what Paul is talking about that if we are buried with him in
1:00:03 our baptism, we we are raised with him in new life. It's this idea of union with Christ. You see this um in in other texts as well. But this idea comes prominently in Romans chapter 6 that we are somehow mysteriously and mystically united to Christ by our faith, right? By our baptism, we are united with Christ so that we're buried and risen. And so our conversion to Jesus is a sort of resurrection, right? And um and so so so perhaps it is the case that what John is
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