Indian Air Force to Ferry NEET Papers?! "It's a DISASTER" I New Poll's Explosive Findings I Barkha

0:12 It is not unusual in India for the military to be deployed in virtually every crisis, whether it's floods, riots, building bridges, or of course, performing their core job of protecting the country. But when it comes to the government actually considering using the air force to ferry neat papers, naturally, we should all be taken aback. Several military veterans are absolutely aghast at the idea, arguing, quite rightly, the Indian Air Force is not a courier service. The decision has been defended or rather the proposal, it's still a proposal, the proposal to use the Air Force to ferry NEAT papers has been defended by the Education Minister who argues that it is to safeguard the future of students. Both NEAT and CBSC exams have

1:03 been at the center of a storm and now the findings of a new survey by SeaVoter have some explosive results including sharp scrutiny on the Education Minister Dharmeendr Pradhan. In a moment from now, we'll be talking to military veterans, educationists, as well as Yashwan Deshmukh of C-Votor. I'm Barkhadad, you're with the Mojo story. On the program today, we look at the proposal being considered by the government to use the Indian Air Force to ferry the papers of the NEET exam. This, after a major leak in the exam, has led to the exams having to be taken place all over again. Need is not the only exam in the center of a firestorm. The CBSC has also run into rough

1:50 weather after young people, including one calling himself an ethical hacker, have demonstrated how easy it is to safeguard what the government and authorities claimed was a foolproof system. A new poll by sea voter, a snap poll, shows that the focus is now squarely on the Education Minister Dharmedra Pradhan. This even as outrage grows in the military community over a proposal to use the Air Force, no less, to ferry the papers of the NEAT exam, which is being held, of course, later in June. What have we come to? Is this what our military was meant for? The military, please remember, has never shied away from performing its duty in times of civil crisis. But should a country need its military to transport

2:41 papers for an entrance exam? And what does the new Sea Water Survey tell us? Let me introduce a very special panel today as we look at all of the dimensions of this debate. Former Chief of Army Staff General VP Malik is with us. Always a pleasure, sir. Also joining us is Air Vice Marshal Manmohan Bahadur, who has an excellent piece, in fact, titled The Indian Air Force is not a courier service. And we'll have more from him in the program. Also joining us is Yashwan Deshmukh, Yashwan Deshmukh's snap poll on the NEAT and CVSE controversies have some absolutely astounding findings. And if I were in the government, I would be paying close attention to them. And also joining us is Zafar Sadezhwala, who has spent years in the

3:27 education world and we'll be grateful for his take as well. Thank you very much, everybody. General Malik, I'd like to start with you. First off, if I can, this idea that the military should be deployed, that the Air Force should be used to transport examination entrance papers. Now, Dhammedra Pradhan, in an interview to NDTV, defended the proposal. And he said it is to safeguard the future of students and that the Air Force would not be involved in the conduct of the holding of the exams, but only to move the papers. It has generated a huge storm. I know that the military is always, always, always at the front line of any crisis. But what kind of precedent? Would we be setting if we started using the Air Force to carry exam papers, General Malik? Let me quickly explain to you

4:17 the system that we have for giving any assistance to the civil authorities. This is also part of civil authority. Firstly, we must remember that the armed forces are meant to ensure our territorial integrity. And if there is any internal security problem to handle that, that is our primary task. And for that task, there is a budget given to us. And with that budget, we maintain our forces and our equipment. And these forces and equipment have to be ready all the time in case of any emergency, particularly for our primary task. So when we are using this equipment and manpower for something else, including aid to civil authority, it taxes the equipment, it taxes the manpower. Now there is a manual in the

5:08 armed forces, which is issued by the Ministry of Defense, which is aid to civil authority manual. And in that, by and large, these such issues are there. Maintenance of law and order, we may be required to handle that. Our national disasters are floods and earthquakes and things of this nature are meant to make this of essential services. But these kinds of services are not indicated that although it cannot be refused when they asked for. The point here is that this equipment, that the manpower that we are using is at the cost of their maintenance, their upkeep, their readiness at short notice for such tasks.

5:53 And that is why the government as well as the armed forces do not like to misuse it. And this particular thing, as most of us believe, is a misuse of our equipment and manpower. And I can't understand at all if it is only a courier service that these people are wanting instead of making use of the Air Force planes and Air Force personnel. Why can't they hire an aircraft for themselves? Why do they need this kind of military service? Let me also assure you, besides affecting the maintainability of our forces and equipment, it is also conveying a very wrong impression and it is affecting the morale of the people who, as you said, now becoming more and more dependent on the armed forces and they

6:42 cannot understand what are the other systems? Why are they not working? Where is the accountability? So I agree with you and I agree with Manon that this is a misuse of the military personnel and equipment for such a thing. If they need it badly, they should hire an aircraft. They can take them there. Why do they need the military and send a very wrong message to the public of misusing the military? I think those are very strong words coming from someone as, you know, as senior as General Malik. I want to add now, AVM and Mohan Bahadur to this conversation. Your column in the print makes exactly the point that General Malik is making. The military is not a courier service. General Malik has

7:31 gone so far as to say that this is not the indications or not the rules that a military should be deployed for. This is misuse. You have made the point that there are in fact 1,300 aircraft available, both privately and state run, that the government could use for this purpose. And you are also appalled at the idea that the Air Force might be used for this. Do elaborate advice, Marshal Bahadur. Thank you for getting me in Barkha. Yes, I wrote that column. And because when I heard that news, I was aghast, like most of us were. You know, there are three, four things that are there. And I'll just come to your question in a way. You know, one is the operational life of

8:17 equipment, which General Mallet talked about, which is a fact. I mean, you can't stand, even if you have a bag full of money, dollars in your hand, and you say, I want to buy a C-17 because we have finished life somewhere else, you will not get that aircraft even if you have the money. So the operational utilization has to be looked into whenever we do such tasks for the civil authority. Second is the exposure to the civilian environment. You know, there are differences, a lot of them professional as well as work ethics. It affects the morale, the discipline and the militariness of the uniformed forces. That is very important. And there's a saying in English familiarity breeds contempt. So if the

9:04 army or the Navy or the air force becomes routine, they'll come anytime, you know, they become routine. There is that special factor is just goes away. As a kid, I remember when the newspaper said, army called out, it meant something has really gone bad. Now the army has to carry a placard to say, listen, we are here army. So, you know, it's overuse of the armed forces coming into the civil environment. And we kept the cantonments out of civil areas for this reason. But of course, now the cities have expanded. All right. So, is but if the government orders the army, the Navy,

9:50 the Air Force, We'll go and do the task. There are no two ways about it. But is there an alternative? And that's where I wrote and it's there. It's the Ministry of Civil Aviation yearly report of 2005-2006, which lists the number of civilian aircraft as 853 and 458 non-scheduled operators, that means state government, private owned, etc. These are the aircraft that are used by politicians for elections. These are the aircraft used by the governor, the state, the chief ministers and the ministers of state. This is the time to hire those aircraft. The government of India and especially the Home

10:37 Secretary has the power to requisition these aircraft. Everything else goes out of the window and the government of India can requisition these assets for moving these newspapers, test papers around if there is a requirement to do so. The army, the navy, the air force should be rear guard action when everything else fails. And I do not think that the civil and airline fleet of India is that bad. Please let's step into their capabilities. Now two of our most senior officers have spoken, General Malik, AVM Bahadur, and I have more questions for you on you know, whether this erodes military culture, does the military have the option to say no. But I also quickly want to get in Zafar Sureshwala and then give some

11:24 space to Yashvand because he has some very staggering findings. Zafar bhai, you have been in education. Does this seem normal to you that the education minister is talking about using the Air Force to ferry examination papers? Not only is it a bad sign for the military, I think it's also a bad statement to make about India's education system. barkha uh well uh i'll not comment much on what the government is doing or what they have to do but for me because i am somebody who has been doing this training uh youth for neat j exams and nclad so many competitive exams you've been doing that and i'll tell you how what is the level

12:10 of trauma to the parents because you know these are the toughest exams in the world uh neat j very tough i mean much tougher than sat sat exams and the result is abysmal i mean the results is you know three four percent five percent okay and you know these days it's not only hard work you pick up students who are brilliant and that starts from year eight we pick up youth from eighth nine standard and they are trained that they have to appear in NEET or JE exams. So you can imagine that exam is only two hours. But before that, at least five

12:55 years of those students have spent and the amount of money, it's not easy because we are trying to do what we can do. But then there are very few centers who prepare youth for joint entrance exams or for NEET exams. A lot of parents, they send their kids to the places like in rajasthan there's a place and then in kota about 200 000 youth are there the kind of trauma those parents go through now you imagine barkha they've worked for five years they've spent minimum i can tell you the minimum amount the parents spend by the time that youth writes the exam is not less than 10 lakhs of rupees minimum and now you can imagine After writing that

13:46 exam, you come to know that the paper was leaked and the exam has to be done again. Now you can imagine the trauma with the students and with the parents. You know why it's happening. I'll tell you because this is a very small crime in our country. Unless and until these people, the perpetrators who leak the papers are not there for me because I know what these people go through. It is an act of terror. Unfortunately, we have defined terrorism only cross border terrorism and all that. This is worst kind of terror. And the people who are involved in this, unless and until they are not the full force of law, which goes to a terrorist till you don't create those examples. Again, you'll see this

14:37 happening and why it's happening. Okay. Okay. Okay. Now, Now, what you're saying is, in fact, Yashwant, I'm going to come to you right after this. But what you're saying, Zafar Sideshwala, has been echoed by one of the country's most famous trainers, coaches, Khan sir. And when he was asked about this proposal, General Malik and AVM Bahadur to use the military, he said it's like treating typhoid with a malaria medicine. It's totally mindless. I'm just going to play out that response and then come to you, Yashvant, on the findings of the sea water pool.

15:26 Take a look. Okay, so it captures a sentiment whether you think he... Sorry, Daffer, Daffer, you're trying to add something? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm exactly echoing that sentiment. They should be hanged. Because people don't understand what those parents are going through. It is worse than any act of terror. And you, they should be encountered. They should be hanged.

16:14 There should be a public hanging of these people. So I will say that whether we want to talk about vigilante justice or not, I agree with all of you that there is a feeling key one can do this and get away with it. And I think to diminish the military by using them because you can't clean up the system is a diminishing both of the military and of the education system. And we'll have more questions on how the military should respond. But Yashwan, if I may, I want to just read out some of the findings. What really emerges, these are explosive, explosive findings. 61% men and nearly 60% women want the NTA to be disbanded, according to

17:04 your finding. Nearly 65% of respondents say the CBSE should withdraw the results and physically recheck papers. After that, 54.3% of males and nearly 50% of females say they have no trust at all in the education system or the government in being fair to millions of impacted students. And here's the crunch, 71.6% males and more than 60% females say the education minister should resign. I want you, Yashvang, there are other findings, including the students who are impacted, saying their voting choices will be impacted by this crisis. There

17:52 is a lot of anger. And I don't think I've ever seen a survey of yours where there is such categorical anger against one member of the cabinet. In fact, you gave a lot of options. Who is responsible? Is it the coaching centers? Is it NTA? Is it all of the above? And the two most popular responses were the education minister and all of them. So over to you, Yashwan. Take us through the key findings. Well, Barkha, if I have to sum up this particular tracker poll in one single word, that word would be disaster. It's as simple as that. And as you are correct, you know, in the last 12 years of all the trackers that we have run, we have

18:38 not seen any issue. We have seen crisis times like CEA and RC when we had seen very, very polarized public opinion. You know, I mean, people are taking in favor of government and against the government and like that. But apart from that, I remember land acquisition bill when there was a very anti-government stand pro-government. But this kind of a stand of public where people who are voting for the BJP, who are opposing the BJP, there is no ambiguity. There is no difference. No difference in their response to this issue. No difference in their responses. That they feel this was an utter disaster, number one. Number two, the blame. Certainly fair and square lies right at the

19:29 doorstep of the education minister somehow. Probably this has also to do with the fact that it was back to back. First NEAT then the CVSC may have. And it just happened back to back. So all of a sudden, there is one question by the way, where we actually check, do you personally know within your family and friends circle, you know, anybody who is suffered by the NEAT leak or the CVSC and you will be surprised to know It's almost like 45%. So you, if you will ask me to put in a statistical terms, it's like every second Indian personally knows in their family or friends circle, a student who has suffered by these two disasters, you know, and, and Barkha, there

20:15 is a reason to it. You know, we are, We are a largely overwhelmingly middle-class country with very middle-class value system. And that value system in one line is meritocracy or celebrating meritocracy. No matter every time you see certain CVSC or any board result or any GE or need result coming out, you will figure out headlines coming up. Some rickshaw puller's daughter topping the certain board, some daily wage burler cracking the GE exam. And as a society, We celebrate those stories. We celebrate those stories, those success stories as a society, whenever there is a news item of a certain daily wage, where the kid getting into engineering college and unable to pay the fee, there is a whole line of people who are willing to

21:02 pay the fee, you know, so the middle class particularly thrives on optimism, the hope and all that you put in, You know, where a Yeshwant or a Barkha or Zapparbay or even a daily wage earners, their first thing of their earning goes into the fee of the kids in their family. Everybody wants their kid to study hard and perform and do better in their life. And that is the hope and optimism against all odds that this country and the public goes through. Are you surprised? Yeah. Then it's a problem, that's the number which is on your screen. You know, the next time you do a tracker on this, do please include a question on using the military for ferrying

21:51 of the papers. Absolutely, it hasn't happened. But I can answer you on why it is happening, Barkha. Because for years, we have been running the trust in institution force. For years, decades in fact. And for decades, the one institution which has been on the top of the trustworthiness in India is always the Indian military, Indian army. And I believe the government or the decision makers are just trying to piggy ride that trustworthiness factor of Indian army to take this mismanagement, this mess of, you know, what, when people are saying they do not have any trust left on the system, the way the examinations are being performed. And that is so wrong that is simply because it has less to do. with actual implementation of the security thing. And it has more to do with optics management. I'm

22:41 being a bit blunt over here. I don't see how and as the two veterans have said it over here, government could have easily used private aircraft and if at all they required some kind of thing, they could use the facilities of CISF, who man the airports, just to make sure that from one place to other place, they are protected properly. know but the fact that they are using the term indian air force indian army unfortunately it looks like an optics management where they are just trying to to to get in the trustworthiness factor i think that i think that's an excellent uh point and i want to go back to the veterans but i have one other question for you yes i want to go back to your figures on uh on the trust now look at this 54.3%

23:31 of males polled by sea water and 48.9% have no trust at all. Your question was, do you have any trust in the education system or the government to address the needs to be fair? That was your precise question. To be fair to millions of impacted students. And nearly 55% of males and nearly 50% of women are saying no trust at all. And you're saying that the Air Force is being used not that the 1300 aircraft that Airway Vice Marshal Bahadur talks about are not being used because through the use of the military, the government is trying to repair trust. Is a crisis management. That's how I feel. Even though I mean, without criticizing as such, I mean, probably

24:19 they do not need army, but they need army like handling of this situation. You know, when you are playing the bite of cancer, you know, it's not the medicine, right? Medicine, what they need. And we have asked, a big number of people have said why there is no problem and as far as JE is concerned, because it is on screen. Why can't you have meat on screen? Why do you need to physically print the paper? Have you ever realized what is the requirement? Why cannot meat be done the way exactly JE is done? There is never a problem with the JE. Why it cannot be given just to the JE to handle the meat as well. Another fiasco, by the way, CBSC thing, that's another dimension. Because here you are looking at the kids who have got conditional probably excess, conditional offer. There

25:10 are so many stories of a student cracking JE, but that student not getting the required number in the CBSC to class death examination. So a kid who has secured 99th percentile in JE, You are telling me that kid is not getting 60% in the class 12th examination. So obviously it's a disaster and I'm not even getting into it. The thing is that something of that sort was done without any preparation, Baka, without any preparation. They should have done it for class 9th and class 11th as the internal, you know, systematic way of approaching it for the digitization of the papers and scanning and everything. But that was not done. It was all done in one go. And all of a sudden, you

25:57 have got something where people are saying, just cancel those results. Just cancel it altogether. Do the physical marking again and release the results again. That's what the public is asking now for. That's right. Many more questions for you also. But let's take this issue of trust back to General Malik and AVM Mohan Bahadur. General Malik, I think this is quite interesting. Because if you join the dots between the seawater finding of a diminishing trust in either the system or the government to handle this crisis and then you then look at the government's decision to use the Indian Air Force. I think what Yashwant is saying is the Air Force is not being used because you need the Air Force as a courier. The Air Force is being used to create trust in the minds of students that if they are on the ground, they will

26:44 be fine. The flip side is not just what you already said that this is not what the military is for, but should the military be pulled into I don't know this sort of civil tension where students, parents are angry with the government. You know, this frustration and anger is absolutely justified. And now we are learning the extent of it. But that is primarily on the system that we have got in the education ministry, who's handling all these issues, etc. But I have a feeling that this credibility crisis that is now in the industry and its departments and systemic problem that they are having, you

27:33 are going to add further frustration and further anger by using the military for a purpose like this. And I have a feeling that the government will lose its credibility even more when you start using the military for such a thing. And, you know, that is what is worrying me that it is not only the credibility of the Ministry of Education and its Department. But by using the army, now the central government is also causing problem to the its own credibility by using the military. So that is a sad state of affairs and that must be avoided. There are ways. Of course, I'm not getting involved in the politics of politics as well as the education system, you

28:23 know what what goes on and how it goes on. But I feel that by using the military for such a thing, it is not only the military which is getting diluted in its operational readiness, etc, etc. But it is also the government which is going to lose its credibility for making use of the military for such a task. Air Vice Marshal Mahmohan Bahadur, please respond to that. I think that's an excellent point. You know, Yashwan says the government might be considering this to add a layer of trust. General Malik is saying, not just will you be being unfair to the military, you will make yourself look weaker because why should the government need the military? It shows that the government is not confident of, you know,

29:13 conducting this exam in a fair way. Here's my... slightly sensitive question can the military say no to this or is it obliged to do this if the government wants I'll answer your question straight away no if a task is given it will be done that's fair and square but I'll just get back to the previous one the the the trust factor you know I am on Twitter I am not on Instagram but certain posts do come to me what I feel is that the amount of memes that have been generated, the number of jokes and various types that have been generated. I think the Indian public is not a fool. And I think the Indian people are now with so many issues that have been brought out. They see through this. So I do not think that the aim of bringing

30:03 that trust by bringing in the Air Force would be achieved at all. So to me, it's all negative. And as I brought out earlier, it impacts because you're putting the military more in the civil arena and those associated issues that come up and making the armed forces routine. That is what I fear will be the bad fallout of using the Air Force for this. But if a task is given, they'll do it. Jaiya Malik, do you want to add to that? Do you feel there's a danger that the armed forces are being made routine if this happens? Yeah, I mean, I can't understand why the armed forces are being used when there are so many other ways of doing this,

30:50 of carrying the papers from one place to the other. When there are aircraft available, the civil aviation, the policemen are there. I can't understand why is the armed forces, why are they being used? After all, our equipment has got its own sanctity, what it is meant for, our personnel are meant for that. So if you start using a hammer only to kill an ant, which you should have been handling earlier, I don't think it is the correct way. And therefore, I do feel that it is misuse of, I would call it misuse of the army and its equipment, armed forces and their equipment, and it is not justified at all. It is going to affect the credibility of the people who will

31:38 order such a thing. Those are very strong words from two of our senior most veterans. Zafar bhai, do you want to respond to Yashwan's findings? I think is the level of anger being underestimated? Yeah. I mean, because I am exactly meeting those parents now coming. Yes, it is horrendous. I can't imagine. That's why I'm saying. These people should be hanged. See, the problem is not in transporting new papers. The problem starts at the level people who are the people involved, the paper setters and where the printing happens. So this is already done before the papers are going to be. Even if you use Air Force or forces, already papers are leaked. So till you don't

32:29 because already the teachers are involved, you know, as the findings have come up. Unless those people who have been, you know, who who leaked those papers much before they were printed and much before they were even transported, it was already there. And how it has we all know. So basically, yes, I agree with Mr. Khans that you have typhoid and you're treating with malaria medicine. So we need to nip it there in the bud. And for that, uh before I leave because I have to go I again repeat that you need to have full force of law to these people who are involved in leaking and that this

33:15 happens much before the papers are printed so till you don't give them uh you know exemplary punishments you'll see this happening again and again because they know oh Till these people are not shown the full force of law, you'll see this happening again. Thank you so much, Baraka. I'll leave. Thanks, Zafar bhai. I'm also giving the last word now to Yashvant. Yashvant, what is the most startling takeaway for you from the sea water findings? There is overwhelming anger against the education minister. There is a clear absence of trust

34:02 in the government of the system, in the NTA. The CBSE results are not being believed. An overwhelming majority are demanding the resignation of the minister. You've heard General Malik and Air Vice Marshal Bahadur neither are given to extreme statements at any time if they are both saying that this is a misuse. The government needs to listen to that. I don't know if This is actually going to happen. It's a proposal. But Mr. Pradhan has gone on record to defend it, which means it's not a mere rumor. Yashwan, on your findings, what really stands out for you the most? Well, Barkha, you asked me to add a question, but from whatever three decades of experience of reading public opinion that I have,

34:49 and looking at these numbers, I'm sure even if we run a poll, overwhelming majority of this country will agree with the two veterans here. that it is misused. Overwhelming majority is looking and saying something else. And when Zafar is talking about some punishment, something, I mean, obviously there are people on that entire loop who have corrupted the system and they need to be taken to the exemplary punishment. But at the same time, the overwhelming majority saying the education minister should resign is also looking for that kind of punishment at the top. Somewhere it is like that. That's the symbolism of it. that something has happened wrong under your watch, under your control, you are responsible for it and you have to better go. But unfortunately, that is

35:36 not going to happen because if Rahul Gandhi has asked for something, this government is not going to do it. That's as simple as that. That will be as good as saying that we have bowed under the pressure of the opposition. This government can do and do Whichever way the prime minister will have to probably intervene at some point of time into this, looking at the very fact that this is something which could not be managed by his team for whatever the reason may be. And they will have to. And by the way, Varkha, it's not a failure across the board. That's the oddest part of this entire thing. You know, it's not the only exam that has happened. We have seen so many exams happening. The IAS, the peace, I mean, basically the civil services exam, the IITJE exam and

36:26 so many other exams without any question mark raised at them. So this means that within this country, within these ministries, there are systems which are working very nice and fine. And within this country, within this system, there are things which are working completely disastrous. So why can't they learn from their own best practices? What's the big deal? I mean, this is absolutely puzzling that you cannot learn from JE people how to conduct need. You cannot learn from ICSC board on how to conduct the CVSC exam or whatever. You know, I mean, if there are things which are done the right way, there are things which are done the right way. I think government needs to put in a solid task force, solid task force with the

37:11 Prescribe timeframe to come up with solution and answers to these kinds of things. And this thing, this leak has to be stopped and plugged somewhere. You cannot play with the optimism of this country. You know, as it is, this country is running on optimism, fuel of optimism only. Middle class is running on that and the lower class is looking the middle class. And that is how. And you just cannot have that thing drain away. This is not a peak of exam. This is the leakage of our optimism, combined optimism of this middle class in this country. And that needs to be plugged in right here, right now, as soon as possible on a war front, war footing. OK, I think that's very powerfully said on a war footing, but

37:59 without using the military, without using the military, the war footing is a good metaphor. But without using the military, because this is not what India's military is meant for. I completely agree with you, Yashwan. This is about the leaking of optimism. What are young people going to believe in if they do everything, their families do everything to take this exam and then the examination papers leak, the CBS can be hacked. The answer is not to use the military because it remains India's most trusted institution. The answer is to go to the root of where it all begins. No amount of deploying Air Force planes is actually going to get to the root of the problem in the system. And as the two veterans have said, they believe, and I agree,

38:46 this is not what India's military is meant for. Yashwan, thank you for your findings to General Malik and AVM Bahadur. Always a pleasure. And thank you to our audience. We'll keep a close eye on how this develops because it impacts the future of millions. I think, as Yashwan said, one in every two Indians knows somebody who has been impacted. this crisis. Thank you so much and see you all soon.