0:00 welcome to rewired an eating disorder recovery podcast hi I'm Meg and I'm sopia each episode we'll share experiences from our own eating disorder recoveries and our lives beyond we will also be joined by some amazing guests and experts in the field who will share their experience knowledge and advice to give hope that recovery is possible just to point out safiria and I are not medical professionals and we'll also be learning from our guests as we go the podcast content reflects our own experiences and opinions as well as that of our guests and should not be taken as medical advice welcome to the rewired podcast hi Maha thank you so much for joining me this morning today is the 1st of March 2025 so the first day of Ramadan and you have been so kind to
0:48 give your first morning of Ramadan to coming and speaking to me it's been a very spontaneous conversation which started with us just voice noting each other back and forth yesterday talking about how people with eating disorders would be navigating Ramadan and I just felt like you had so many words of wisdom when you were talking that I felt maybe if we could just fit this podcast in that some people would benefit from it so thank you so much for taking your morning to speak to me um so let's get started by you just introducing yourself if that's okay and then I'll introduce myself too um and we'll get straight into the topic after that which will be about Ramadan when you are suffering from an eating disorder or when you've had an eating disorder in the past so
1:33 yeah could you just okay so yeah thank you sa Sophia for having me and Ramadan Kim to you and Ramadan kareim to everyone who's listening to us and watching us and my name is Mahan and I am the influencer and I am the person behind the website which was the first Muslim website on eating disorders in the Islamic World which is called war against eating disorder I'm also on the social media and so what my work um my work is around creating new awareness of Eating Disorders in the Muslim world and looking into the research and putting all the information together and coming up with the solutions and connecting with the different um uh treatment teams and offering help to people who suffer
2:19 from the Eating Disorders that's so beautiful and you do so much casew workk um to help people especially people who can't afford help and you really give your heart and soul to that work and I don't think you're selling yourself enough with what you do but it really is truly incredible um how many people's lives you've changed and I think that's how we got connected all those years back is by um Mutual clients by supporting people together and the way that you show up for people is truly amazing um so yeah I'm so glad that you do the work that you do um I'm safia and I'm also somebody who has lived experience of having an eating disorder and I am now an eating disorder recovery coach having qualified with uh CCI in
3:05 the US and I love supporting people and I'm really excited about having this conversation with you a topic which I don't think is spoken about enough um so let's launch straight into it so Maha one of the conversations that we were having last night over vo note was around how do people figure out whether they can do Ramadan if they are suffing from an eating disorder um I feel like it's something that we've grown up with so we have a lot of emotional attachment to we also feel like it's something that we should do being Muslim but then when you have an eating disorder you start to wonder whether it's something that's healthy for you how do you go around figuring out whether it's something you can do what advice do you give to people I mean um sfia I I'll be very
3:52 honest I think the first it has to come from your doctor so if your doctor in the treatment team they make a decision that you cannot fast then you know kalas you cannot fast and you have to work with your treatment team and your doctor second thing is you know yourself better than anyone I mean Islam is very lenient and liberal religion when it comes to the health care when it comes to our emotional and spiritual and physical well-being so you really have to see where you stand and if you feel you I mean the Ramadan is going to bring out your um um is going to be like trigger more of your behavior side then you really have to like uh take a uh like
4:38 take a minute pause reflect and think and then also connect with your doctor and your treatment team and discuss with them and then make a decision but it has to come from the doctor because if the doctor says you cannot fast I don't think so there is a single Imam in the world who will say to you know you have to fast that's so true true isn't it and if you have an eating disorder and you go to a doctor saying that I think that fasting is going to be very triggering for me I think it's going to make my eating disorder worse I also don't know a doctor in the world who would say no carry on fasting that's something that you've got to do and I think that sometimes we can see um Allah T we can see Allah as like from the way that we've been brought up the way we've been
5:23 exposed to Islam we can see it a lot in a very harsh SP in a very harsh way but actually he's so Lov and so caring and the last thing he would want you to do is to put yourself at risk and hurt your body and the point of Ramadan is not meant to be like um to lose weight um it's meant to be a time for introspection and reflection and like you said if you've G to the doctor and they're telling you that Ramadan is something that you shouldn't partake in right now then that's something that you do need to listen to and there's so many other ways to connect right there's so many other ways that you connect can connect and Ramadan if you cannot fast yes you're absolutely right um Sophia because I remember in my my work
6:10 it started in 2012 and the first thing I did was I started working on Ramadan guide in 2015 because this was one topic which was coming up again and again and again and I remember that the research I mean um I was the first person to produce a Ramadan I mean there was nothing out there absolutely nothing there was no information there were no case studies on eating disorders in Muslim world and the first thing which came up was Ramadan and honestly like I as a Muslim I mean even I was struggling I didn't know what to do because it came so much about you know I need to have a perfect meal plan if I'm fasting I need to do XYZ in order to get through the Ramadan but for me the biggest challenge was the
6:57 Ramadan I didn't fast yes I didn't connect spiritually at all with Allah subhana wa ta'ala or with my faith I was a complete mess because there was so much any happening under the surface it wasn't just about the fasting there was so much more and it made me like really realize that okay I'm not fasting you know so Ramadan is not an issue why am I like this I tried to pray but I was all over the place and then I made a decision that the following Ramadan I will Fast yes and when I did decided to fast the following Ramadan again the problem was I was still not connecting I I still I mean I still
7:43 wasn't connecting I wasn't I mean doing what we were supposed to do for the Ramadan because all of a sudden my whole Focus was on okay what am I supposed to have sahur and fat so then when we put the Ramadan guide together I remember um you know we we thought you so what is the issue when we realized the issue was that the spiritually there was so much happening inside us we were not connecting with Ramadan on a spiritual level there was an emptiness and so that's why when the the Ramadan was created I mean if you look at all the other guides they simply focus on your behaviors your triggers and you know what to eat and how to eat yes but if you look at this Ramadan guide there is so much focus on spirituality and how when you're feeling low you don't want to
8:30 do many things and you feel your um um your your focus is getting lost sorry forgive me you can you what you can do the prayers and everything because the aim of the Ramadan is to change your mindset to spiritually mentally and physically cleanse you but the problem is when we focus on the Ramadan sfia the easiest thing in the Ramadan to do is fast that's the easiest thing the most difficult thing in the Ramadan is yeah to really hold yourself accountable for what you have been doing 11 months of the year yes do your own inventory and then work on yourself so if you get a Muslim like y even if you put someone
9:17 okay anyway I'll let you start otherwise this will go on and on I love listening to you I love listening to you and I think you're no I'd love for you to carry on to be honest but it's I think you're so right that you can fast and it doesn't mean that you're going to spiritually connect probably whether you have an eating disorder or not even people maybe who don't have an eating disorder they might still not connect but I think that if you've got an eating disorder still your intention of why you're fasting can be so fuzzy it can be you might not be 100% ding of Allah because like you said you're maybe focusing too much on the food that you're going to be eating in the morning and when you break your fast worrying whether it's the right thing and I do think there is what what's your thoughts on this I feel like there is a lot out there about have these foods for sahora to maximize D you know and there's a lot
10:04 of stuff around weight loss um you sopia this is I mean you know they say you learn through the time so in 2012 honestly like this is why I love looking at my website because it shows me my journey how far I have come and you know how far those people have come like I know them from 2012 I'll be very honest with you like I don't know a single person yeah who suffers from Ed who wanted to fast simply for the reason of Allah and do everything properly behind the int like the intention was not pure right from the beginning and even when they made a they tried to make a pure intention to fast for Allah subhana wa ta'ala then the the intention became
10:49 clouded it be it changed um as the fast started because of the sahur and fat yes and um and then all of a sudden by the time they were in the seventh or Eighth Day of the Ramadan they were simply on this fast weight loss program and there was or they were simply um feeding their eating disorder desires they were just giving into their Ed behaviors more and more and more so the whole concept of Ramadan fasting for Allah subhana wa taala was lost and as I said to you that um um it's very difficult the easiest thing every Muslim can do is abstain from food drink from Sunrise till the send Sunset right that's the easiest thing to do but the most difficult thing is um safia to work
11:35 on everything else and nobody's willing to do that like if you get a Muslim who has an eating disorder yes and you tell them and say okay you know what um because Ramadan is a fifth pillar of Islam yes you cannot you cannot be a Muslim without a Ramadan and there is so much more to Ramadan than food and drink so I'll give you an example you take a Muslim and she's telling you you you know I'm so triggered by the Ramadan I can't be around people because they're fasting I'm not fasting because of my eating disorder but I'm finding it so difficult okay fine take her out send her to the Iceland yeah where where there are no Moses there there are no Muslims yeah and tell her okay now you have to say observe Ramadan spiritually yes and you have to work on yourself on
12:21 your spiritual self take hold of your um hold yourself accountable for everything you have been doing for 11 months yeah and work through your bad habits your behaviors and your shortcomings and guess what she is still going to struggle now you have taken her out of the Muslim environment you have put her into a completely different environment she will still struggle and she will not even be able to do even one fraction of what she's supposed to do for the Ramadan so the problem is it's a lot it's it's a lot complicated because it's so much to do with the spirituality as well so the short you like the easiest ways to focus on the food yes yeah that you know okay you know what we are not drinking we are not um uh y eating from sunrise to sunset and look at the normal
13:07 Muslims yeah this is what even everybody else focuses on so you eat in the morning yes and then a whole day on your mind it is yes you know I'm I'm not eating I'm not drinking and as soon as the sunset comes here like look at the Bai I mean it's insane I mean I I cannot believe how much time is wasted at F time sa I I I looked into so many case studies in Dubai in the amirat in the amirat and what happens before the fatur half an hour they all get like you know they'll go to the Atlantis or any XZ the whole the is full with the buffet and the fatur they sit there half an hour before the fatur and then they will remain there until the uh I mean some of
13:52 them uh till the ISA yes and they eat and eat and eat and eat and then like they will spend um the thi and afteri postav time trying to digest their food yes so the whole focus is like completely taken away from what you have to do and it's same with the people who are not F who are not fasting who have Eating Disorders they focus so much on the food they focus so much on others and especially if okay and even if they are with the Muslims who are fasting they're simply they get triggered okay you know what they are not fasting this means they are better than me they will be losing weight so they focus more on them than theirselves and if you like really take a look at the I asked people I said okay go and
14:38 spend time with the elderly people yes um who are not fasting yes look at how much peace they are in when they not fasting safia they eat simple and the whole time because they cannot do much physical activities they will have the tus in their hands they will have the Quran yes and they're still observing and they never complain that you know why because of my old age I'm not fasting um why me why me why me they are completely happy with the will of Allah because Allah has given made made it easy for them so they're so grateful to Allah subhana wa ta'ala for giving them this um ease that they are even more grateful and how they show their gratitude they will eat the meal which is simple and they will be constant constantly in the act of worship that's
15:26 so beautiful isn't it just to remember the people are not fasting as well for other reasons whether they be elderly they're pregnant they're nursing whatever it is there's so many people that aren't able to fast maybe they have diabetes like maybe there's certain health conditions that don't allow them to but you can still observe Ramadan you can still that you say do ziker you I think what you were saying as well in terms of the food element and making that comparison is that food is still on a pedestal to a lot of people during Ramadan if you make it a big deal the food what you're eating in the morning it being a in the evening um your whole day focusing on what you're going to have tonight to break your fast you're basically putting food back on a pedestal like it was when you're eating disorder and the whole idea is that food becomes less of a
16:12 focus in your life and you're shining the spotlight on other areas of your life and in Ramadan specifically we're really trying to focus on introspection bettering ourselves helping other people our values like how we can better live in line with that um prayer you you know Faith meditation like all of those things not just focusing on the food and drink aspect of it which like yes can be the easiest part of it it is and sopia this is really like when you speak to them and they always tell you that you know this Ramadan I'm going to be super healthy yes I mean Allah has given us Ramadan for a reason it's not just spiritual cleansing physical cleansing but also emotional
16:57 cleansing and Alo the purification of the soul and the heart and you cannot purify your heart and soul and your mental health by simply focusing on what you're going to eat at in the morning in the evening and I'll be very honest with you like what really shocked me in in Pakistan because uh I've been here for over one year now sfia the happiest people are who are eating simple food yes and their um dining table has less dishes and they simply eat and then they focus and they they move forward and they get on with their day but whereas with the I mean and now look at it I mean I I don't even know how to give people Ramadan guides because there
17:43 are so many recipes there are so many guides coming out what you should be eating and you know sfia you're a life Co sry you're an ed coach you know how difficult it is to get a a person who has an ed to eat what is on the menu or to what is on the plan they will do what they want to do so the problem with the Ramadan for people like us is yeah we really have to break down our will which is so strong the Ed people are the strongest people in the world they have the strongest willpower you can not make them do anything against theil sopy and you know that I mean it's so difficult I mean when you even say to someone look okay have this for morning evening and night it's impossible they will follow you 100% yeah unless they
18:29 they have to be willing to do it you can't make anyone change yeah no you cannot and by telling someone this is what you do and you will and they will do no it really has to come from inside and and the guilt Factor has to come in and what is the guilt factor it's not that you know you're um feeling guilty because you're so bad and you know oh my God why me why me why me why me story The Guilt Factor has to come that you know what I am responsible for my health I have to take full responsibility for my well-being and I have to do something for my well-being and that's where you make the decision and you proceed forward and this also becomes an act of worship and I when you're doing things properly for your body safia it's very
19:14 pleasing to Allah you know because Allah knows us and when he knows his servant woke up sah and instead of you know fasting on empty stomach he having his sah and it's a mindful sahul to nourish his body and soul yeah yes and he's going forward with the day I mean imagine I mean how much you know that person gets rewarded but the problem is here that because um the focus is the people they become so much they come under so much pressure with the with the food Sofia and even when you give them all the information sfia they're overwhelmed by the fourth day of the Ramadan they're completely breaking down they're breaking down and they cannot go past the fourth five day I mean the first three days they still manage I mean after fourth fifth sixth day they
20:00 are completely breaking down and they want to do what they want to do so now the challenge is here that you know you still have to like um remind yourself no I cannot do what I want to do yes which is follow the disordered ways I still have to do what I have to do which is um respect the integ Integrity of the Ramadan and do what is right so it all becomes a battle between the right and wrong and it's a lot of like and then in this battle the Ed side always wins and the good side always loses well it it is that Jihad nuts isn't it like that they talk about like when you feel that when somebody says that I'm like wow that's really just reminds me of like that eating disorder part of you and the healthy part of you like maybe your natural fit you could say that healthy
20:46 part of you versus like this eating disorder nffs part of you there's like this push and pull and it really does take a lot of self-awareness to realize which one is in the driving seat and like you said if you find that day four or five you're slipping into more eating disorder like ways of doing the Ramadan you have to take that step back and think right I'm not doing Ramadan for the right reasons and actually at the end of this month I'm not going to be spiritually fulfilled I'm actually going to have hurt my body probably damaged like in terms put more veils up between me and Allah by engaging eating disorder behaviors and taking a step back in my recovery and I think though it's like for me when I was had my eating disorder
21:31 I didn't fast for many years when I had my eating disorder and even after I would say I was recovered quote unquote I still didn't for a year or two just to make sure that I was really in a good place then when I came back to fasting I felt like I was really spiritually aligned and it been amazing fasting in a recovered place but how do you deal with the guilt of not fasting because even when a doctor tells you you can't fast because of your eating disorder I feel like there is a lot of pressure maybe we put on ourselves about the need to fast and that maybe we're not a good enough Muslim by not fasting it is a fifth pillar I should be doing it I should be able to come over my thoughts I should I should I should how do you kind of overcome that how did you realize like right Ramadan is not for me right now I just need to
22:16 focus on the other parts of the faith that I can do you know Sophia what you said about the Jihad NS is I mean it brings back so many memories I heard someone from Qatar and you know she said something really good to me she said you know what Maha and she was really struggling she was a student she was in Qatar she had no family and the Ramadan came and she said something which really stuck by me and she said you know what Maha this is our Jihad this is my she said Allah tests everyone and she said this is our Jihad she said we have been given a Jihad and we have to come on top of this and we have to like really get into this and fight it so I think you know the point you said about Jihad is excellent and now what you said about
23:01 you know getting the guilt and now where the guilt comes from it comes from the eating disorder side yes and like I said to you that um the reason even after fourth fifth day the the person makes a decision okay you know what I am not going to fast for rest of the Ramadan you know sopia they're still focused so much on the food side and Ramadan and others that their spiritual side gets destroyed yes and what I mean by destruction is yeah they they can't focus on the prayers they're not even doing a 70% of the things they're supposed to do in the Ramadan yeah whereas the blessing in the disguise is that now Allah has made something very easy for you yes he's making it easy I mean Allah is above your mother your
23:48 father your doctor your Imam everyone you know when Allah has made something easy he is your Malik I mean he is the true king he's The Sovereign then this is what Allah has said then this is it it's like there's a verse in Surah Al Bak about a father hamam when Allah said to him become my obedient servant he didn't say but you know Allah what do you mean by obedient servant you know he said he said yes Allah I have become your obedient servant immediately instantly there was nothing this that XYZ what do you mean please can you explain you know can you give me more explanation he said immediately no this is what Allah you have said that's it so
24:34 when Allah has said you know you are Exempted this is it I mean who are the people I mean Allah is bigger than all the society the people so the guilt which comes in here is you have to let go of the guilt really get into the spirit of Ramadan with the intention that this is your golden opportunity to do more Good Deeds to spiritually align with Allah subhana wa ta'ala and work on yourself because Saia remember Ramadan is only one month 11 months of the year we do what we want to do yeah we live according to our own will yeah you know if we want to like we eat what we want to do we we live the way we want to live only one month and the profound uh blessings behind this month is yeah that Allah knows how heedless we
25:20 are yeah he knows how heedless people are so he gives us one month when we can spiritually cleanse ourselves yes and look at the ease he has made I mean I'll give you an example somebody was like um um I mean I was really shocked by this case study someone was speaking to me and she was really like um she wasn't a Muslim and she decided to beat her bed which is the binge eating disorder of safia she is going to go on this Retreat where you pay this insane amount of money and she was going to live in this like I forgot the place and and you know what she was going she she wasn't allowed to speak yes she couldn't have a bath she was only given
26:09 a very limited amount of food yes and she was supposed to do this and and nothing and this is it and there were no neighbors or nothing and she was and I thought to myself this is insane I mean you know you lose your mind and you know um safia that you know you we always like as a Muslims we the is a very strong part and our NS they are our biggest enemies and and I thought to myself but look at Ramadan I mean how easy Allah has made it yes you know we get to eat in the morning we get to eat in the evening he has given us the prayers in congregation he has taught us to I mean he has given us a guideline what to do in Ramadan because he knows how how we can go off the path yeah how our mind
26:54 works yeah and actually exactly and like you were saying actually girl with that girl poor girl who has been gting disorder who suffers from it like that's probably not the ideal environment in fact when you have an eating disorder you need to be held you need to work through your emotions you need to feel like food is available to you because when she comes out of that environment that's going to be so hard to then continue her recovery in a normal in her own home in her own Community how do you find actually girls who are suffering from binge eating disorder how did they navigate cuz I we both had anorexia I think and um but the girls I can imagine it's also very triggering for people who suffer from binge eating like those long periods of time without eating how do they manage that is it a case of making
27:39 sure they nourish themselves enough in the morning they eat really well they don't restrict um yeah what's your experience of that uh sopia this is really interesting because only yesterday day before yesterday we were working through the bed side and there were quite a few people who have Beed been cheating this who come forward and you know what I and I I remember um one of my um podcasts or whatever I was really like oh no Ramadan is another month to lose weight you know it's another month and then I realized how wrong I was because Ramadan is such a blessing in disguise there are people who have to go for the heart surgery yes so the doctors they use Ramadan yes um as a way to get
28:28 them healthy because all year round they cannot keep their cholesterol levels in in check you know they they cannot leave lose um a sufficient amount of weight for the surgery so in order to prepare them for the surgery the the the doctors they really use the Ramadan for the benefit and it works I mean it really disciplines um those people and even with the diabetes I mean um uh there are few people you know who cannot fast I mean it's simply impossible for them but then there are people who the doctors will guide to fast in Ramadan because of the health benefits because when they are not like um fasting yes the way they're eating their sugar levels cannot be controlled but the fasting if it's
29:16 undone under the guidance of the doctor properly then it brings so many health benefits and same with the people with the bed if they are working with a trained nutrition yes Ed coach yes and they completely follow the um what they're telling them to do and this is a medicinal reason okay yeah I mean they are working on themselves from the medical point of view then the Ramadan will bring them so many benefits safia because the dietician yes will will give you a medical um uh diet yes which is going to work uh for you in the medical terms yeah she is not going to give you something which is going to be triggering and she's really going to
30:03 work with you so it really I mean I've seen that some of them when they do come out of Ramadan they're actually better yeah wow that's amazing I think what I keep hearing you come back to is the concept of if your doctor says it if you're working with the right professional if you have an eating disorder trained dietician like those are all key factors like if you have the support around you you can't be like right well I've got diabetes so I'm going to give Ramadan a shot and see if it it helps my diabetes or I'm going to see if it helps my cholesteral like all of this is done with the support of a medical professional and it's it's making sure that you and then you know if you're following a plan that a dietician has set who is eating disorder trained like then you're not going to be
30:48 listening to your own like kind of eating disorder part of you through Ramadan it's going to be based on someone else and you can be like right Al SP has given me this person as a gift to help me with health and to help me go on the right path I'm going to listen to them and not listen to what I feel like my eating disorder wants me to do and you see it as more as a form of self-care and looking after yourself than a diet or a quick fix and also sfia it's a worship it's a it's an act of I I mean imagine I mean you doing a right thing versus your inner self when your inner self is telling you that no you know what you have to like go off the path path and do things which are harmful to your health and then you're like no I'm not going to do that I'm going to do what is right so Ramadan is
31:35 all about correcting your actions and the problem is I mean this is where the 99% of the people who have Ed disorder eating disorder struggle with getting their actions right yes they find it impossible because they simply want to do what they want to do they have been doing 11 months a year and no no one can say a word no one can can tell them what to do and even when people tell them what to do and it's it's coming from the holistic you know uh any from the holistic um part it's coming from the medical part and then they very conveniently they even forget they're ill I mean you know they still want to follow their own voice there is no illness it's all to do with them and what they want to do what they want it's nothing to do with anyone else and you know they will do what they want to do then they have to really ground
32:21 themselves remind themselves that you know I do have an illness which is a cure yes and I need to get well and this Ramadan yes and this Ramadan I need to get well I mean it really can it really like it's like I'll give you an example I mean um you have a heart surgery and three like and the the doctor tells you um three days before the surgery this is what you have to do yes you have to follow safia and then after you have had your heart surgery you cannot go back to eating the way you want to eat you will have to for one month follow what he's telling you if you want your heart to heal same with the tooth extraction you go for the extraction can you imagine sopia I mean
33:07 why do you follow the instruction of the doctors when you come back post extraction do you start immediately start you know having these big feasts you start you know going through those behaviors you know you listen to the dentist you know you cannot have any hard food you cannot like you have to be mindful you have to keep the place um clean yes you have to follow a diet soft food diet so the word diet has become a triggering point for many people when it shouldn't because I mean there is the medical reason behind all of this and we really have to remind ourselves that you know Ramadan is about our well-being and for us to and really work on our behaviors because the sopia it's really destroying the families because at the end of the day I'll be very honest with you it's people with the uh you know they always get the upper hand
33:55 yes like the everybody gets really really Disturbed and even then they are struggling so like you mean the family of people who have got Eating Disorders they struggle to support their and and imagine it must cause so much tension actually I can only imagine how hard it must be it must be so difficult and feeling like you don't want that because the comparison part of an eating disorder is so much and you know it must be so triggering for people with eords for me it was awful Ramadan to be honest it's like I wish that I had somebody like you to tell me when I couldn't fast like don't worry you can't fast like don't just focus on the introspection focus on your prayer focus on reading Quran focus on turning to
34:40 Allah like focus on those things rather than just shaming yourself feeling like you're not good enough Muslim like trying to fast where your intentions are wrong like I think it's it's uh such an important message to give that you don't need to f if you're unwell and just turn inwards and just focus on the other aspects and you know yes yeah and sopia that's the most difficult part I mean when you tell people honestly like when we put the Ramadan guide together and I remember I mean there was so much so the Ramadan guide was in two parts I remember you know um if you're fasting because I knew there is no way you can tell someone you cannot fast they will do what they want to do this was in 2012 2015 time when
35:29 there was not much awareness of Eating Disorders in Ramadan there was nothing out there safia and I knew it was impossible you were the first talk about it yeah yeah and it was impossible for to tell people oh no you cannot fast yes because they were definitely going to do a fast and do what they want to do yes and then there was part in the guide when you're not fasting and R Saia I will be very honest with you like I'm guilty of that my Ramadan when I wasn't fasting I don't remember remember anything about Quran I don't even yes I opened it but I read Quran maybe with a with a blind mind and blind eyes I didn't even know anything about the verses but look at and Unis sopia my journey you know that when I started focusing more on the spiritual side I
36:15 was really struggling with my Quran because you know no one is born as a perfect Muslim Islam is a way of life every day you know you're learning something and you're getting close to to Allah and they say Islam is till you meet your um Allah every day you work on yourself every yes Journey forever forever Journey forever you're never a produ you're never fully healed you're never the perfect person like and that's actually so liberating to be honest like yeah we can't fast because we're suffering from an eating disorder but so is everybody else suffering from different things this is just a time just like is so obvious that you feel so different to everybody else who's not FY but everybody's got their own Jihad ons everybody's got their own struggles nobody world without it even if you
37:02 can't see it and you're unique I mean if you you know if you're not fasting I mean I remember my auntie Allah bless her soul she's gone to heaven now I remember sopia she had diabetes she and my father they both because um my family has a history of diabetes and she uh didn't fast and sfia I couldn't believe how much she engaged in Ramadan and she was so honored she said you know what when Allah has given me e why should I make it difficult and she said she said she simply like even when she tried to fast by midday she needed something sweet because her sugar levels would dip down and she would get the headaches so sopia what she did she every uh Friday sorry every day she would go for
37:48 thi yes she would actually um hold a fatur party in her house and she would invite everyone and she would feel happy serving them she would send send the fidia the the the the money of the fast Mist fast to the people yes and then she would distribute Ramadan literature and you know you would never feel she's not fasting and she was eating she was so into the Ramadan and into Dicker and everything but whereas I remember I completely destroyed my um Ramadan when I wasn't fasting and yeah I think and white thinking Maha I think it's the black and white thinking of an eating disorder of like oh I can't fast so I'm just going to completely go the opposite
38:34 like I'm going to just not really engage in the things at all exactly and that's your training ground rumor sopia you know now it's your training ground to build yourself strong why look at others I mean we are not like sheep that you know if um I mean they're 99 I mean there was a question in the class the the teacher said to the boy there are 99 sheeps yeah one she sheep you know went to the left you know how many sheeps left and he said none and the teacher said you're wrong and he said to the teacher no you're wrong because if the one sheep is going to go left yeah the 98 sheeps are also going to go left you know so uh so this is like us I mean if it's one is a one person is not fasting yeah is the H whole household not going to fast no and if one person is fasting
39:22 on Monday and Thursday like you know rest of the year does that mean the whole house hold is going to also do the same thing if someone is going you know taking a right turn and you need to go to the left are you going to take the right because that person is taking the right turn no you're going to go to the left because your house is at the left your destination is at the left so it's our destination sfia it is our training ground honestly when we are not fasting Allah is giving us a profound opportunity to train ourselves be different from everyone really work on ourselves and Rise Above everyone and then you know imagine the strength people have when they come out of all of this and sopia I have seen people honestly like you I know someone who couldn't fast she didn't fast even when
40:07 she was recovered and safia mashah you know she worked on the she knew this is a pillar of Islam she knew the fear was coming from inside her she worked with the dietician she worked for the CBT and then she was able to fast mindfully wow that's amazing yeah and yeah and and you know it really I mean it I mean life is not like that you know it's all all about me it's about you know what I want what I want what I want what I need to do what I need to do you know it is about taking the right steps forward and Ramadan is the only one month here when you know you have to and you know when the guilt comes in when people are really feeling guilty they're not feeling guilty about oh because you know we can't fast they're feeling guilty because inside you know there is a sick
40:53 sense right there's a cons like an intu yes intuition yes you're it is telling you what you're doing is wrong take the right steps so they need to work on other things instead of focusing on the very easy way out oh no she's eating my mother is eating my mother is making this my father is making that this is happening that is happening no the fact is the guilt factor is coming from because what you're doing is not right you need to work on other areas I mean look at us you know our mood swings our anger issues the negativity everyone becomes your number one enemy when you have an ed yes everyone is against you no one understands you your relationships are destroyed um you don't have many good friends you know you feel the world hates you you feel um uh you
41:41 know you're focusing more on negative uh content than the positive content you don't work on any of this but yes what you do work on is oh the easy way out yeah this is where yeah there's so many areas that you can work on have to focus on the food and like if by the end of the month you've worked on yeah your your relationships with your family your Rel you know being there for other people in your community um gaining a bit more self-esteem feeling like you're more in touch with your values you have actually gone through a transformation in Ramadan like that is something like you know and arguably in some ways even more amazing than somebody if they've only fasted and they haven't done that introspection and looked inside themselves um I wanted to ask you so now
42:29 alhamdulillah you're in a recovered place I'm in a recovered Place how do you ensure you stay safe during Ramadan because you said something so good on the voice note yesterday which I I don't think I've heard anybody talk about this that when you are recovered just having those regular check-ins to make sure your intentions are in the right place and you're staying healthy how do you keep in touch with that okay you know Sophia I'll be very honest with you everyone is different but I would all always advice people that I mean like I told you I mean alhamdulillah we we have very good people we the caseworks I had excellent amazing uh safia people really aware of their self because you know they did lot of inner work during the Ramadan yes
43:14 alongside their um other you know the food part and even they I mean I I I always say that you know if you feel that you know your other side is coming up because what happens in Ramadan that shatan is is locked up now it's you and yourself you cannot blame the devil anymore yeah it's your inner self which is coming out and you have to take full accountability for that so if the there is I mean negative thought which comes in here you really have to make sure that you know you you like um that you see it as as a thought which is not a good thought yeah but if it multiplies yeah do check in with your therapist always is a backup yeah have an Imam and honest ly I would highly recommend always I mean with people with
44:00 the Eating Disorders please go do go and see the Imam yes yes because he is the only person in his wife because safia we have so many Ramadan groups online Quran classes online support groups yeah have a spiritual Mentor in the Ramadan that is so important because that spiritual Mentor is going to give you the thicker is going to guide you this is how much thicker you have to do this is how much you know prayers you have to do this is if you're feeling triggered this is the anxiety prayer okay maybe read one chapter of Quran now okay engage in Quran meditation he will actually um uh give you a buddy who can work with you on the spiritual path yeah that really keeps you grounded and also have a therapist in the background you know
44:46 check in with her once a year even if you're recovered yet just have a normal I mean healthy conversation with her as a friend yes and say okay you know this is how my year has been this this is what I have been doing what do you think you know do you think I'm doing well or I'm not doing well I mean this is also you know like you're um also like letting go of that higher ego which thinks I'm so perfect I'm doing everything perfect it's also very grounding Place uh for you when you check in with your therapist and you know you do all these things and with me safia I'll be very honest with you this is the only Ramadan yes I mean the last Ramadan because it was the first Ramadan in Pakistan yes I was very uh confused with so many things and um because here sopia the the food is very different
45:33 from the UK yes we don't get those packaged Foods everything comes from the earth people eat what is in season yes as soon as the season ends here the food finishes yeah and the next food comes in like the vegetables and the fruits and people don't eat outside the season in UK like I always like um 24 like 360 days a year I would have the same breakfast yes and it wasn't even seasonal yeah seasonal breakfast here I mean there is a season for the oranges yeah and they different kind of oranges as soon as the season finishes you know we get natural sunlight so your vitamin C is coming from there there is no need for that food so the different foods which are designed for the summer or
46:20 spring or Autumn they come in so I was finding that part really difficult but this Ramadan honestly safia I mean my whole focus is whatever is there available and whatever family's eating eat that and my whole focus is on my Quran yeah I'm more panicked about my my Quran and whether I can get through the Ramadan with my Quran and I can memorize the the sua I'm trying to memorize honestly I think about nothing else the food is the last thing on my mind I'm like whatever is there Mah eat yes amazing because my family alhamdulillah they eat really good my you know it's all organic it's all good it's all the blessings of Allah so whatever is on my dining table eat and go forward and even the last Ramadan my even though I mean I
47:06 was confused with the food but food was not an issue yes the whole issue was my um for the past three years my whole issue has been actually four five years five years now alhamdulillah I've been more focused on the Quran and a memorization of the Quran with the meaning and you know reflecting on the verses so even when I go to sleep uh Saia I'm thinking about okay this is the worst okay so this is the worst in the Quran it means this where I have seen this worse before what does it mean how I can apply this into like what am I going to be eating in the morning and oh then I need to go to the shops to get this and have I prepped it obviously like some people you are going to need to have that bit of pre-planning especially if you're making food for the family like that's really normal but
47:52 like you said like it's about having the right amount of emphasis on the food like for you definitely your intentions are completely about yeah I mean Sophia I cook I mean I I make food for my family you know in Ramadan I mean I cook my for my parents but it has become so automatic because I know what they eat yes yeah I want this I'm gonna make this in this quantity I have to go around 20 shops to get the perfect ingredients the what I want you're like right that's what they like and that's what I'm going to make I love that this is it yeah honestly honest sopia it has made my life so much easier mentally I know that what uh we are eating for seven days yes yes this is how much I trained even I know what we are going to eat for the 30
48:38 days yeah we have fixed um you know you know because we um eat very balanced my parents are very balanced people alhamdulillah yes I know I mean so it's not an issue I know automatically that what we are having tomorrow what we are having day after because every day we eat fresh it's small but fresh yeah there is a lot of fruits and vegetable and whatever my father he goes to the farmers market yes and you know and whatever is there whatever is being sold there he brings it home and that's it I mean it's end of the discussion it's the food make it yes and yes I mean you can try different recipes but yeah because I wanted to make the food part very easy for me so I said you know what Mah the easiest thing is yeah instead of
49:25 focusing on what you want and I was very extreme safia my goodness I was even telling someone other day I said I feel so guilty the the pressure my family went through to get my food and my ingredients they would come from UK can you believe it like we would bring my things from the UK they would come from the UK and when I would come to travel my suit case was full filled with um food I was eating and God forbids if we ran out of anything oh my gosh house backups right it wasn't even like one of that was enough like you needed a hoorde of that particular food you felt really sa but like that's the nature of an EA disorder I know we cringe at it now I'm like you I'm like G that's so annoying that I did that but that's what an
50:11 eating disorder makes happen to you right like it's not your fault it's and and this is why you're overcoming it and that's why you need to focus on trying to get better so you can have a lot more Ramadan that are completely spiritually aligned exactly um I I actually feel like when I was fasting it was such like sorry during Ramadan when I had my eating I wasn't fasting there is no way I could have actually fasted so some people might have this very different experience because I there is no way I would have been able to go that length of time without food because even when I had my anorexia I was still eating like little bits but throughout the day so the idea of eating like a larger portion of food before the sun even Rose would have totally freaked me out because you know
50:56 a lot of us like to delay our food and then the idea of like maybe eating with other people like there's so many things that could come up as triggers for people with eating disorders but I think the fact is that you've recovered and you're able to have Ramadan in a very spiritual way now I've recovered and I'm having Ramadan in spiritual way so if we can do it anybody can just like if you're in an eating disorder right now just focus on getting better focus on the spiritual side of it and actually this could be a beautiful time to further your recovery so that inshah in the future with the right support with the right help with the Right medical professions professionals you can actually fast too I mean Sophia we are really when it comes to the Eating Disorders I mean
51:41 especially us I think Muslims we are really in a golden age of help but because um there is so much I mean um spiritual uh groups out there yes there is so much spiritual help out there and there is so much awareness I mean I really have to thank honestly all these I mean eating disorder organizations whether it's n whether it's butterfly whether it's anyone I mean from Australia to New Zealand to UK to us amazing yeah isn't it amazing I mean how each and every single one of them have recognized Ramadan and how they're doing their best to provide information and Sport so I mean what more do we want I mean you know Allah has made it so easy for us now the difficult part is yeah
52:27 you have to work like it's the inner self and it all comes from inside you and this is the difficult part food is not an issue safia because I mean that as I said to you this is the short way out 11 months of the year food is there yes yeah yeah food is there 360 days a year yes so don't blame the food I mean really focus getting well I mean this is the time when everyone whether you're fasting or not not fasting safia everyone really has to do really has to do an inner work I mean I'll give you I mean I'll give you the last example of the Ramadan in Dubai I mean I remember I mean those people I mean I was following them and they went for fat yes yes yes and they overate all of them yeah
53:14 because they were in Atlantis and they just simply lost control yeah they couldn't even remember like I don't even think so they even went for the M Salah because there were so much overtaking in this food coma that they forgot and you know they kept on going back for seconds and thirds and fourths and fifths so by the time they finished eating here which I think even the Trav time was compromised here they didn't know what to do they simply had to walk around for three hours yes around the J areia and the you know all these areas at JMC just to digest the food and by the time the food was digested they quickly did the shorted prayer it was time for for so they went for the fatur sorry they went for the sahur they went
54:00 for the sahur so they were in the another restaurant and their restaurant I mean also had so much food yeah and again yeah they were eating and eating and eating so by the time like they finished the sahur yes they couldn't even pray they went home and simply collapsed yeah they woke up and then they woke up and they had to go all over again like I agree with you left with the F oh gosh like yeah there really is like two ends of the spectrum isn't there like there's you know and and the whole idea of like our faith is to find the middle ground and to find know we're not meant to be on either end of the extremes that you're meant to nourish your body when you break your fast you can have what you like which is halal absolutely fine um but just don't lose your focus don't
54:46 put food on a pedestal either having too much of it or too less of it either way you're putting too much of a focus of food on your life and that whether you're fasting or yes sorry exact whether you're fasting or you're not fasting or no fasting food is not the focus food is not the focus this is the only one month of the year when the Allah said the focus is completely different yes yes so make your meals I mean you know that's why we have the prep you know Ramadan Allah has given us 11 months yeah yes to prepare for the Ramadan so take out one month sit down do your meal planning for the one month yes do your shopping everything so in Ramadan you're not running to 20 different shops yeah and ordering XYZ and honestly like you know if you're a
55:32 mother um safia focus on you know I mean you know you cannot eat one food um seven days a week yeah make good meals I mean make good meal plan yeah and follow it and make it easy your groceries are in and you know what you're going to eat you know your preps are done it's easy you're not confused every day oh my God what should I make you know should I make 10 different different dishes yeah takes up to easy yeah absolutely yeah no honestly you've been so incredible and you've helped so many people I think through this conversation and can you just let everybody know where your resources are your Ramadan guide tell us your website um any social media you're onu so um the website is war eating
56:19 disorder.com it should have been eating disorders. comom but the reason is war against eating disorder.com because when I made this website I was only suffering from one eating disorder yes yes so it was about so this is what I always tell people look you know how much I mean unaware how unaware I was so it was because you know everyone has one eating disorder it can be multiple Eating Disorders yes but it's your eating disorder you're fighting so it's personal Journey so war against eating disorder.com yes so it's your war against eating disorder.com and if you go on Instagram it's Islam and eating disorders and also if you need help this Ramadan honestly I promise you there are so many people out
57:05 there who will help you who will make this Ramadan in every aspect great for you there are you know clinical dieticians there are I mean CBT there are I mean you know eating disorder coaches I mean sopia is absolutely amazing sopia I have worked with you and I absolutely love love love the way are and you really have supported me I have learned so much from you because I'm not a trained cist I I'm not a CBT either but as a coach practical side of things but you you really are amazing as well I've Loved supporting the girls with you but you're right there is so much support out there and maybe if you know of any professionals I'll link it below the video because I'm sure there'll be people that want to reach out and maybe
57:51 in the future we'll do a project together to support people during R Ramadan yes um please don't allow the uh money to become a barrier to your recovery because you know when you have a fever when you have a cold you go to the doctor yeah Allah will make it very easy for you once you take a one step towards the health Allah makes it very easy so see it as an illness and I me you can also email us our email address is war eating disorder at Gmail um.com and I can link you with the yes I can put you in contact with the therapist and you know we have a therapists all across the world you know from Bangladesh India and Pakistan and they charge very very minimal so it doesn't matter where you are and now your the
58:36 battle is how are you going to go forward in the Ramadan because it's it is about you now yes and how you're going to take you know do your full inventory and go forward and so don't make things difficult for you make it easy make it easy and can do that introspection and you're not going to be adding those extra by triggering yourself even more I love what you said as well like if you take a step towards Allah they say you know Allah he'll like run towards you something like that right kind of thing so you know just take that step be in your Dua you know just turn to Allah and reach out for the people around you um and we will link as much as we can resource-wise below and um inshallah this Ramadan is a spiritual one for everybody whether you're fasting
59:21 or not and you're able to take a step forward in your recovery or if you're listening to and you're supporting a loved one who is suffering from an eating disorder inshallah they recover and uh yeah don't don't go through it alone in thank you sopia much Ramadan kareim thank you so much for listening to rewired and thank you to Tuda self our fabulous podcast editor and producer whose details can be found in the show notes you can find me on Instagram at Mei recovery and me sopia at sopia Ed recovery coach we will use a space to share some of the things which have helped us in our own recoveries but none
1:00:07 of it should be taken as medical advice if you're struggling please seek help from a professional we hope you found this helpful see you on the next episode
