0:00 be the best as your skill. But as long as you don't know how to sell yourself, you suffer some You can do everything right and fail here in Nigeria, unfortunately. Again, it's not even about passion at this point. It's about what the market wants. It's about what the market wants and then what the market is paying for. Unfortunately, we've had like a lot of mediocre freelancers. I do believe that to be actually good at any skill that you're doing, you need to freelancers using AI will kick out freelancers who are not using AI. Everybody with a digital skill needs to [music] learn sales. Sales is the gap between struggling freelancers and freelancers who are doing very well. >> What makes a skill valuable? >> Any skill that can give tangible results to a business or an entrepreneur or a client is valuable. >> So let us somebody ascends around 100 proposals and has not been landed any job. What's the [music] first thing you suspect is wrong? >> If they send 100 proposals and and they
0:45 are not getting any jobs, then there is a very high possibility that the proposals that they [music] are sending looks like every other person's proposal. Again, you cannot look like everybody else and expect different results. And then it's also up to you to now figure out Are you hungry now or are you hungry in six months? >> So if somebody does not have any marketable skill today, where should the person get started? What do you think is the most overrated skill right now? >> Virtual assistance. Oh my days, everybody wants to >> not around it. >> [laughter] >> Now all these guys are building useless workflows. They are building useless automations. Almost none of them are solving problems. No client is hiring you to come and create like one beautiful workflow that is doing whatever. Nobody cares. What exactly can you supply? How much time can you save me? How much money can you save me? >> What what are the potential red flags when going through job posts and trying to apply?
1:32 >> You crop this part out. Number one. >> On today's episode, we sit down with a man who has mastered the art of making money with his skills. He's ranked among the top 3% of freelancers on Upwork and has trained over 7,000 people to build their own freelancing careers. Now in this conversation, he reviews [music] his playbook for standing out, attracting high-paying clients, and building a successful freelancing [music] business in today's competitive market. Ladies and welcome the freelance maestro himself, Adetunji Ekaete. [music] All right, once again, welcome to the show. 3 years later. >> Yeah. >> How are you doing?
2:17 >> I'm alive. I'm doing good. >> All right, so you just turned 25. You've at this point made millions of naira on the internet and that's thousands of dollars at this point. If today everything was taken from me, your money, your connections, everything, your businesses everything literally and you are handed a brand new Mac 2026 M5 Pro, how would you find your way back? >> So do I still have my skill? Do I still have Do I still have >> you still have your skills. >> So I have everything. So ideally, uh what I'll do is just cold pitch. I'll just I'll I'll cold pitch. I'll check out companies who
3:04 have a gap. So I'm a copywriter, right? So let's say let's use startups, for example. So there are like a lot of all these sites well found now. There's Crunchbase where you see startups are coming on Y Combinator, right? I could just go there and this is again, this is even me doing the hard work. This is me. But then again, you can also get your results very quickly. I'm not even talking about Upwork or starting from scratch that way. I'll go there, scrape the list of companies, maybe whether I want to work with SaaS companies or whatever, scrape the list of companies. I just need 100, send them cold emails, the ones that especially the ones that I find gaps in their copy, send them cold emails, pitch myself, pitch myself, personalized cold emails to 100 of them. And if I send if I send them to 100, uh again, it's a numbers game at the end. Let's say I get
3:51 10 interviews or 10 yeses and 19 no's, right? From that 10 yeses, I get seven interviews. From the seven interviews, I get like two to three clients. And 100 emails is something you could realistically send in one one week. >> Does it take you one week to send 100 emails? >> You could send it, you could send it faster, but again, this is even me saying this is being lazy more or less, one week. >> What if you couldn't use any of the skills you're currently known for? What skill will you choose to learn? >> Hmm. So if I had to learn a new skill right now, so there are two things, yeah? Again, it's not even about passion at this point, it's about what the market wants. >> Mm. >> Right? It's about what the market wants and then what the market is paying for. Like for example, now I know again because of the whole AI AI AI thing, I know cyber security is going to be very
4:37 very big deal, right? Like very soon. But then I also understand that cyber security is not something that you can learn in one month and then start making good money for. So I would look at okay, so what am I planning in the long term and then what am I planning in the short term? So what's the short term skill that I want to start right now? So personally for me, again, you look at the market, you do your research, you get into Upwork, look at okay, what skills exactly, what jobs are being posted more of and all of that. So personally, although the skill that I do believe right now you can get into again because of the way things are, the way the market is is workflow automation or yeah, just being an automation engineer because it's something that you can you can probably build your first workflow or build your build your portfolio in one week of just
5:23 knowing about workflow automation. >> Mm. >> And yeah, and so I'm I'm thinking of it this way, yeah? And I I've been my my mind has been thinking towards this angle about productizing your service. >> Mm. >> And I've been seeing a lot of examples like that on it. Not a lot actually, very very few, which is why I do think there's a gap with productizing your service. So for example, let's use workflow automation now. You can build an entire workflow, you can build an entire knowledge base or let's say maybe HVAC business, that's the heating, ventilation, air conditioning businesses, right? You can build an entire workflow, an entire automation that does everything from pick their calls to sets everything, you understand? The entire flow from lead gen to to from lead generation to running the business itself where it replaces let's say like three
6:10 employees what they would have typically paid three employees and then sell it to them. You have all this already built on GHL as and then you can just like get the snapshot and then sell it to HVAC businesses. You could actually sell it to them for cheap. So you're offering them a service but it's actually a product. So that's what I mean by you're productizing your service. And that's that's like where my head has been recently yeah? >> Notice that some of you are not subscribed to the channel. You watch the podcast, you enjoy the conversation but you are not subscribed. We're trying to hit 50,000 subscribers by the end of the year. So hit that subscribe button right now, like this video, okay? And by the end of the year we'll come back to celebrate with you all. >> So you productize your service, start we sell it to them and then now charge them something else for for if they want you to be the one to actually onboard like create the entire system or bring bring it into their system that sort of thing and then
6:56 maintain it every month. So that's personally that's that's what I think. >> Do you think it's easier or harder now to make money online than when you started? >> Now I'll be honest I do think it's easier. Now it's easier because so when I started you actually needed to be good at what you're doing. You actually needed to have some form of talent or so for example copywriting is is both you need to have an idea of marketing and all you also you have to be creative, you have to be good with words. If you are not good with words or you're not creative or you're you're you're not also good with selling or convincing people to buy you cannot do well as a copywriter no matter how hard you try, right? But right now almost every skill, right? Almost every skill you can bring AI into it to make it much more easier. So now
7:43 let's say let's say you were starting as a copywriter back then you take courses, you watch you you watch YouTube videos, the usual typical way you take courses, you watch YouTube videos, you and write like thousands of hundreds of swipe files and all of that and write to other people's copies. Now that was the process that we used back then. And then when you now want to when the client gives you a job for to you write their copy first you first think okay is this something that I can even do and then you still go through hundreds of other people's own >> Yeah. >> to but right now a client can give you a job and you just give just take the entire job post give it to AI and then AI will tell you the exact thing to do or AI would even just get the job done for you. So it has given you the drafts that drafts that would normally take us days to write. It can give you the draft day one >> Mhm. >> right and then it's now up to you to now
8:28 okay just make it better >> Yeah. >> more or less right? So in my opinion I do think it has made things easier. It has also made people lazier but then that's still that's like another discussion but yeah it has made >> has it made people lazier? >> So I do believe that for you to be good at anything you need to understand the principles of that thing. For you to be a good writer or a good designer you need to understand the principles of design. There are steps for you to take to actually create a design traditionally. There were steps that you needed to take you needed to research you needed to visualize draft and all those things like that. Now people don't do that anymore because AI does it all for them right but I do believe that to be actually good at any skill that you're doing you need to follow the traditional way follow the traditional step of doing things and
9:14 then when you've done things traditionally then let AI actually help you just make yourself make your work faster make your work better and then critique you right but now these days people are just like leaving that entirely and then just going straight into AI. >> Yeah. >> So yeah that's what that's that's how I do feel and because of that unfortunately we've had like a lot of mediocre freelancers. >> True. >> So that's it. >> But if there's this opportunity and it's easier to get in right now why do a lot of people still struggle with making money online? >> So having you you can be a very you can be very very good at your skill actually be the best at your skill but as long as you don't know how to sell
10:00 yourself you suffer. Right? You see people who know how to sell yourself sell themselves who are not even half as good as you are doing better. So again every freelancer everybody with a digital skill needs to learn sales. >> Mm. >> So that's just the thing. So I think sales is the gap between struggling freelancers and freelancers who are doing very well right now. >> Were [snorts] you actually good when you started? Like were you very good at what you did? What was the experience like? >> Mm. So when I started, so I worked I worked based on volume, right? So when I when I started copywriting first, I worked for like seven months with Nigerian companies >> Okay. >> and actually it took me two weeks of learning or even here of hearing of the word copywriting >> Mm. >> for me to land my first copywriting client. >> Mm.
10:45 >> Now it was not because I was already good at copywriting. I was when I read my copy from that back then I'm like, oh, it's horrible, right? But it was just because I sent out too much cold emails. I did too much outbound. It was like almost impossible not to get a yes. So >> Do you do you think this is what differentiates people that succeed at something from people that don't necessarily succeed at a thing? You talk about how that you sent a lot of cold emails, cold messages, and in two weeks you landed your first client. >> Yeah. I do think so because people give up too easily these days. >> Mm. >> So they tried something and then that's also because of the internet. So now on the internet they always saying, oh, this is what is working right now. This is what is working right now. This is
11:30 what is working right now. So when they get into anyone and then they do it for one week and then they've not seen results, they're like, oh, okay, yes, this one is not working. It's not scam. And then they go to the next one and then they have like the exact same thing and then they just they just go like that merry go round, that merry go round, that merry go round, unfortunately for them. But yeah, I do think you need to at some point and I think it was whether it's Alex Mozi who said something like this where you putting too much effort, it's it's impossible to fix something like that. Yeah. >> Mm. [snorts] The next question on my mind really is still still bordering around this. >> Mm. >> Why is it difficult for people to put in efforts today? >> Mm. Why is it difficult for people to put in effort. >> Does does social media, does, you know,
12:17 the quick wins they see on social media quote quote unquote and everything >> Yeah. >> something to do with, you know, people just looking for quick quick quick quick quick quick things? >> I think so actually. I think so. I I do think now um and this is also partially to blame to we shall say professionals or creatives who are doing fairly well and are also posting on social media. So we glorify the wins and we don't glorify the hustle sometimes, right? Or we just oh yeah, I hustled like this thing but but we we are focused on and I don't know and it's also because people don't care when you're telling them the process like that they don't care. What they want to see they want to see the numbers. They want to see the oh I did this number oh I did this number I did this number and
13:03 [snorts] then they won't follow you they will not react to your post they will not like you they will not share it to their friends if you make it seem hard, right? If you make it well and the truth is and we also need to all be honest with ourselves, it's not easy, right? It is simple because simple is I can tell you these are the exact steps >> Yes. >> for you to actually get this result that I have gotten. Now it's being simple doesn't mean it's easy, right? So you get into it and then it's actually you find out that oh it actually takes hard work, right? And then when you now find out that oh it actually takes hard work a lot of people just fall off and then go to the next shiny thing or the shiny object or the next influencer is posting out there. >> True true I I think Alex calls it something calls it the value of the spare. So you start learning this skill and then you learn
13:48 this skill and you're you know, you're optimistic, you're on a high like okay this is the thing that's going to change my life. And then you learn you learn you're you're on this mountain right now and then you encounter an obstacle >> Yeah. >> and then you start coming down the valley. The valley is where you are struggling to figure things out and that's where a lot of people give up. >> Yeah. >> So you meet a struggle you give up then you stop that particular skill and then you go and start another thing and then there's that So you just keep going up and down, going up and down, never getting to any final destination. >> Yeah. >> That's quite interesting. >> Unfortunately. [laughter] Although I also do believe I also do believe that in the in the end, right? Um
14:33 failures they will they will always be failures. For the concept of success to exist, there have to be failures. The only unfortunate thing is uh the amount of failures is always going to be more than the amount of successes in in any given venture. >> How how do you recover recover quickly when you fail? >> So for me, I have always trusted the process. I I have this in mind, yeah? And I've done it across different things that I've done more or less. I don't always put my energy into things that I don't believe in, but I've done it across different things where I believe that if this thing is working for somebody, it it will work for me. Like there's there's absolutely no reason why it will not work for me. So I've I've always just had that in mind. So however long it takes, right? And like with the YouTube stuff, right? However long it
15:19 takes, where where I created like 70 something videos, right? Before I got monetized. And that 70 something videos, it was like me pushing it out in like 6 weeks. It took me like less than 6 weeks I think to get monetized. Now it took me a lot of effort to create that amount of videos. But then I saw somebody who actually was actually making money from this thing. Now it did not even take her 70 something videos to get monetized. It took her like less than 10 videos to get monetized. But now, although I also understand why now it took me like that many videos to get monetized right? But I was just like as long as it's working for this person, it's going to work for me. And I just kept on putting the effort. As I said, actually almost everything that has worked out for me is just because it's not even maybe because I was talented or I just had one like dumb luck or something like it was just me
16:06 doing too much. And then it worked. >> Have you had to quit before? >> Have I had to quit? So I I won't really say yes, actually. Yes, on few occasions. But this is the but this is the thing about me, yeah. I am very very selfish with my energy that sort of thing. I'm very very selfish. So if I look at this thing and I look at it and I look at it and I'm like man it's not really uh this is not me or this is not something that I would normally do. I don't even I don't even go into it at all because as you said there are a lot of shiny objects out there. Oh this is working now, oh this is working now, oh this is working now, this is oh this is what is happening or this is the big thing that everybody should get into right now. I just I never just follow them. I just uh if it's not worth my energy I don't even go into it. So because of that so the
16:53 things that actually work my energy that I go into I put in enough effort for it to work. >> Interesting. Let's take this conversation further. Now so somebody stumbled on this video. The person has been hearing freelancing, freelancing freelancing freelancing >> Yeah. >> but doesn't really understand the concept of freelancing. How would you break freelancing down? >> So here's what I'll say. Now freelancing technically is you you have a skill. Let's say you have a digital skill. There are a lot of digital skills out there. There is copywriting which I've been doing. There is uh automation engineering which is actually easier than the name sounds. There is coding, virtual assistance, whatever, whatever. Now these are skills that companies that freelance that that companies that entrepreneurs, that businesses, they need the service that
17:38 you offer, right? Uh a busy CEO needs a virtual assistant who is going to help him get more time out of the day. Whether they're getting the time out for their families or whatever, right? Uh anybody who is hiring a copywriter probably needs words to sell something or words to just move, right? Now these people they don't know how to do these things. So they need you. You need their money. They hire you. You deliver the work and then you get paid. Now the thing with freelancing is now freelancing works on mostly typically typically freelancing works on a project-to-project basis. But uh because once once a client once a client or company starts paying you every single month then it turns to a job. Not just exactly. But uh the thing is, you can work from anywhere. That's just the because you're working
18:25 these are digital skills and it's called the word digital. It's there. You're doing it from your phone, from your laptop. It's not like brick laying where you have to go to the site and all of that. You can work from anywhere. These people that are paying you can pay you from anywhere. They need your services wherever in the world they are. And also that also opens up the possibilities. That also makes it like ocean because there are there are millions if not hundreds of millions of businesses out there. Or that's hundreds of millions I guess that's billions. I don't mean hundreds of millions. But of businesses out there in the world and freelancing is literally telling you that you don't have to be caged by your location. >> Mhm. >> So if there are 100 companies in the state where you are or a thousand companies in the state where you are and you reach out to all of them and then they don't hire you. Freelancing is
19:11 telling you that there is 100 million out there who also need you. So reach out to them and then work with them, get paid for your services. And yeah, that's it. >> What's the difference between freelancing and having a remote job? >> So as I said here, it becomes a job when you have a client who starts paying you every month, >> Mhm. >> right? So a lot of freelancers have remote jobs. Like for example, I prefer to have remote jobs because now with freelancing you're jumping from project to project. I'm jumping from project to project. Now most freelancers have that one good client who is paying them consistently every month where it becomes a remote job. And then they're also still jumping from project to project working with different companies every every month like that. So in my opinion, now freelancing should
19:58 I say encompasses remote job or remote work in a way or remote work encompasses freelancing. So freelancing is like a subset of remote jobs or remote work. >> [snorts] >> Can you realistically build a career as a freelancer especially in third world Africa for example, working from Nigeria, Kenya, Rwanda, Ghana and South Africa? Can you realistically build a career long term from freelancing? >> Definitely. Definitely. I've this is my sixth year So I started 2020. Right? This is 2026. This is my 6th year as a freelancer. I've had too too many. So because I've also helped a lot of other people learn freelancing jobs. I've had too many of them. I've I've had I've had I have a student which you know Jolaya. We have a student. [laughter] Anyway, so this Jolaya was a lecturer.
20:45 Was a lecturer in a university and he actually quit lecturing to become a freelancer full time. Right? That is unheard of. I I would not really say it's unheard of, but it's it's in in in the world of It's it's not something It's not a typical Nigerian thing. Right? Where a lecturer because when you see these guys oh they had they had like at the peak of their careers and all of that. Right? But he left a job that was paying 150,000 per month which is lecturing. And right now he's doing $2,400 $2,600 every single month as a freelancer. And he has been doing that for going to 2 years now. He has been doing very well for himself going to So yeah, definitely definitely you can build a career of freelancing. Especially in a And we need it the most if we're being honest. So third world countries, countries in Africa,
21:31 freelancers in Africa or people in Africa generally need we need freelancing the most because people who are already in the US or already in the UK, they don't simply need to freelance. They are they are companies they they their economy is structured that if they actually do everything right, then they probably will get good results out of it. They will probably get a good job if they go to school and all of that. But unfortunately it's not like that in Nigeria. In Nigeria [snorts] you can or Africa generally you can go to school, get your BSc or your bachelor's degree, your master's, whatever, whatever and then you still struggle. Right? You can You can do everything right and fail in Nigeria unfortunately. But um so freelancing more or less just expands your horizons. >> Why why exactly would a company in America for example in the UK, in
22:17 Canada, why would they hire somebody in Nigeria or Ghana? >> So now there are two reasons here. The first reason that I give is they're being cheap. And when I say they're being cheap, it's not necessarily a bad thing, because if a company is being cheap and they're paying you $1,000, that is still good money for us in Africa, right? So now, um a lot of these companies in their countries, they are subjected to minimum wage. How do I put this? I don't know if I would call it subjected to minimum wage, but there there's there's a particular amount of money that you must pay anybody you hire, but there's like a down is So for example, in the UK now, I think it's almost £13 >> Mhm. >> hour. So if you calculate £13 per hour
23:03 times 40 hours in a week, which is like typical work week, that is going to give you like over £500 and then almost £500 and then multiply it by four, that's almost 2,000 if not £2,000. Now £2,000 is almost 4 million Naira, right? Now this company would rather And then again, we're still talking about benefits, right? If this person is pregnant, then you have to go maternity leave and all of that and still pay the person through all of that. So things like that, health benefits, if the person is sick, you still have to pay, right? Now this company would rather hire a Nigerian or somebody in Philippines or an Indian or an African or a Ghanaian or whatever, right? They'd rather hire you, pay you £1,000 per month with none of the benefits. So they're saving money in multiple ways. They're saving money where you don't have to come to the office and then pay the electricity bill. You understand? Some of them don't
23:48 even need offices anymore, right? And then again, they're also paying you half what they would typically pay if they had to hire from their own countries. But again, that half that they're paying you, which is £1,000 for example, is good money to you. It's pays much more than any professional most professional careers here in Africa. So that is like I do think is the major reason for companies abroad why they are why they are very very bullish into hiring freelancers is the fact that they're being cheap. >> So if somebody does not have any marketable skill today, where should the person get started? >> So as I said, it's just it's just about doing a bit of right? It's the first way, and and honestly, the best way, I do think >> doing research is a skill? >> Even doing research is a skill in the
24:35 end. I I do think, I do think the and the easiest thing is just go on Google and search at any point in time top 10 high income digital skills. >> Mm. >> It's like it's like it's like the hack always. Top 10 high income digital skills. And most times you would see 10 skills that are probably paying the best right now, >> Mm. >> right? You see 10 skills that are probably paying the best right now. Then you go through each of them. Say, okay, which of these ones can I actually or which which of these ones vibe with me? Because in the end, you also want to do something that at least you feel like you would enjoy doing. >> Mm. >> So it doesn't so your work doesn't always feel like work, >> Mm. >> right? Then from the 10, just do your research. Go just read on each one. Okay, what's this one about? What's this one about? What's this one about? What's the Again, you don't even want to focus on, oh, let me go and see if there's anybody on TikTok who has gotten GLE with this
25:21 skill or you understand that sort of thing, right? Just focus, okay, is this something now you've already the algorithm has already told you that these are the top 10 that are paying right now. Now it's up to you to figure out which of these ones vibe with me. And then it's also up to you to now figure out, are you hungry now or are you hungry in 6 months? >> Mm. >> Right? Now what I mean what I mean more or less is they are low barrier skills or low entry skills, right? Where you can just get in and then like as I said, with copywriting, it took me like 2 weeks of copywriting to land my first Nigerian client, >> Mm. >> right? They are low entry skills like that. And then they are also high barrier skills like coding, like development, like cyber security, like data analytics. These are skills where so that's what I mean. If you are hungry now, you still need to know the type of skills that you will go for, >> Okay. >> right? And again, it doesn't mean you
26:07 have to be in that skill for too long. You can be in that skill and then start making money from that skill while you're still upskilling. You always want to upskill, >> Mm. >> right? So but then if maybe you still have somebody that is giving you money for food now that is taking care of you, you don't really have to think about bills, right? Then you can also say, okay, yeah, let me calm down and actually learn a skill that will take me 2 months, 3 months. Let me go and learn cyber security. But if I [snorts] see anybody that says, oh yeah, they are struggling financially, they don't know how to pay their school fees, or they don't know how to do this, they don't to do this, and then they have come in, they say they want to become freelancers and blah blah. And then I ask you, because what skill are you learning? And then you tell me cyber security or data analytics or or even web development. So I say you're not hungry yet. You're not hungry yet. So they are they are lower entry skills. They are lower
26:52 barrier, not lower entry. I'll call them lower barrier skills, skills that you can get in, learn fast, and actually start earning from. >> What makes a skill valuable? >> Any skill that can give tangible results >> Mm. >> to a business or an entrepreneur or a client, any skill that can give tangible results is valuable, right? So if you're creating if you're a video editor and then you're editing videos, nobody actually cares about the videos that you're editing. >> Mm. >> What they care is, okay, the videos that you're editing, what are the metrics that I'm getting? So let's say they post their video on Instagram, how many likes is it getting? How many followers is it getting? How many customers do the followers lead to, right? So as long as you're able to track down, okay, this is the skill,
27:38 this is the product, these are the results that this skill can get, then it will always be valuable. >> Mm. So so when choosing a skill, do you choose based on what you enjoy or based on what the market is paying for? >> In my opinion, in my opinion, always based on what the market is paying for. >> Why? >> And make money now, follow your passion later. Make money now, follow your passion later. That's that's just it. Okay, make money and then follow your passion. When you when you've made when you've made money, then you can afford your passion. You can afford not to make money. So that's just it. >> Let's imagine this person came to you, right? And the person said, I don't have skills right now. This is my present predicament, and I really
28:24 want to, you know, begin freelancing, make money, or learn and all that. What are the skills you you recommend, and what are the skills you would not recommend to the person? >> So most >> times I like to know what the background of the person is. So now, let say you tell me that um you did not go to school or maybe you finished in secondary school and all you've done, you've been doing like menial jobs all through blah blah blah blah blah. Then now, typically I recommend between five skills. I recommend it's either copywriting, it's either graphic design, UI UX. And again, these are also skills that you can learn and then in four weeks be good enough to actually start landing jobs, right? In less than much less than four weeks, right? So it's either copywriting, graphics design, UI UX, video editing, and then running meta ads, right?
29:09 So I I usually recommend between these five skills and I recommend between these five skills based on Now when you talk to me, I already know most times I already like have an idea of the type of person you are. Or like let's say maybe you I could you call me and then you are like Hello sir, good morning. Please I beg I want to learn so you you not even not even judging you but just right? Well just what do when you start when you start talking to me I already start um having an idea of the type of person you are. So uh you cannot maybe call me and then make like 20 grammatical errors in a five word sentence and then >> You can be a writer. >> Exactly. You cannot be a writer. And then I will now have to ask you okay so what else is what else are you good at? What else do you feel like you will enjoy? So I just just go just go through these five. Which of them would you
29:56 enjoy? Let me know. And then two things, right? Do you have a smartphone? And do you have a laptop? Right? Now not all these skills can you do with a smartphone alone, right? And not all these skills I can do with a laptop alone. Exactly. So do you also I think most times the first question I even ask is do you have a smartphone? Or do you have a laptop? Right? So if you don't have a laptop, now those five skills now come down to like three, right? Three or two, right? Let's just say three. Then if you have a laptop, then okay yes you are still open to the five. Now depends on your strengths as a person generally. >> What what do you think is the most overrated skill right now? >> Virtual assistance. >> Oh my, this everybody wants >> I'm not around the world.
30:41 >> [laughter] >> Everybody, everybody wants to become a virtual and I was actually so somebody called me yesterday and and this is a grown 40 year old man. And well I was we were talking, we were talking, we were talking and then so I advised him you say you have a good laptop, you have a good phone, okay. This is based on what you've done professionally, right? This is a skill that I think you should get into, right? And then if you end if you get into this one and then you find out you don't really enjoy it, then this is another skill you can get into. >> Mhm. >> And then he was like but I wanted to do virtual assistance. I was like I every single time I want to do virtual assistance, I want to do virtual assistance and I I do think virtual assistance generally is a is a stepping stone. Now a lot of people >> a good entry level skill. >> is a good entry level skill. It's a good it's a I I don't doubt that it's a good entry level skill. But I do think people who become virtual assistants and then
31:27 stay as virtual assistants are not doing themselves any favors. >> Mhm. Why? >> Right? So you come in as a virtual assistant, probably charging like $4 per hour, 40 hours per week, whatever doing over time, doesn't really matter. And then two years later, you're still a virtual assistant. It's it's very very difficult. Like how much more do you want to charge as a virtual assistant knowing that every single day there are 100 new virtual assistants getting into into the into the market, right? And that's it. And And generally I don't even like to believe in the concept of saturation. I don't like to believe that anything is saturated, right? So as long as you can sell yourself better than the next person, then nothing can never be saturated too, right? But I just I just think with virtual assistants, it's very very difficult to grow financially. Yes, you get more clients, you enjoy the work, but it's
32:12 very difficult to grow financially. You'll probably just like be stuck in like less than $1,000 every month or $1,000 tops every month as if you're like very good. My wife actually did virtual assistance for two years and she she got to the point where she was making three to $4,000 every month, right? And then the whole AI boom happened and then you see the clients saying, oh but you can just use AI to do this, you can you get what I'm trying to say? And then so yeah so it's just it's not it's not something that you want to focus on that like this is my career long term. As a freelancer. >> What what what's the most underrated skill? >> The most underrated skill. Huh? What would I say is the most underrated
32:58 skill? To be honest, I have no idea. I I do feel like there are a few there are a few of them. Right? So so here's the thing, yeah. I do think I do think, right? As I said, automation engineering is a skill that because if you go on TikTok, >> Mhm. >> you would find probably a thousand of them. And then they're always posting, oh, I built this thing, I built this thing, I built this thing, I built this thing. And it will now make you feel inferior, like you're not good. Let me tell you, out of that 1,000, only three of them are what are what they are sold. >> Mhm. >> Right? Because now all these guys are building useless workflows. They're building useless automations. Almost none of them are solving problems. No client is hiring you to come and give you to come and create like one beautiful workflow
33:43 that is doing whatever. Nobody cares. Nobody nobody nobody really cares about that. [snorts] Okay, it's like what what exactly can you solve? Like how much time can you save me? How much money can you save me? But all these guys, you just see them just posting, oh, I built this car that can call your mother and then wish her happy birthday and then connect the call to your dad and then send your mom. What do I care? You understand what I'm trying to say? So and and again, that is also the thing with social media. You see somebody just like getting to a scooter just just put Oluwa then they will now put slash expert AI blah blah expert automation specialist and all of that. But in my opinion, in my opinion, in probably anything you're getting into, if there are a thousand people in there, like now there are 90 are [laughter] More or less. So it's just for you to just beat the 10. >> So are you team learn multiple skills or
34:31 team be very good at one skill? >> So I'll be so it's it's a team very good at one skill with future potential. >> Mhm. >> So that's the thing. So, for every skill you get into, ask yourself, where does it take me to? More or less, right? Ask yourself, where does it where does it take me to? Again, now I I really do like I really do like Let me Let me use I I would I would say Why I don't even want to say maybe let me use writing as an example or copywriting as an example. So, like for copywriting knowing I know it leads into sales and then okay, so now what exactly what aspect of sales and marketing do you want to get into? Then you can say maybe you want to run the ads or you want You get what I'm trying to say, right? Now, let's say let's use for example I want to use something difficult again like this automation engineering. >> Yeah. >> Right? Now, if you look at what a
35:17 typical automation engineer and it's good money, but then it's now the question is now like what next? Right? What next? In my opinion, what next? Systems architect. So now, you're not the one building the automation. You're the one You're the mind creating You understand? Behind the whole thing. So, in my in my head I'm like two things, right? So, I'm I'm bullish on learn one skill with future potential. So, learn one skill. Okay, so like where would this take me to? Or funny enough it's You don't even It doesn't even have to be you learning one skill and then going into another skill or going into a skill that is just the next thing. It could be what skill can I start now, right? Productize if possible, build an agency around, right? If it's not a skill that you can
36:02 do that, then it's probably not a skill you should get into. >> Mm. >> Right? But if it's a skill that okay, yes, you can get into, you can productize Okay, yeah, let me I'm selling this service as a product to multiple clients or whatever, right? And then if it's not a skill that you can build an agency around, then you probably should not think of doing it long term. >> How How would I know that I'm in a wrong skill? >> I think the number one is if you're not making money from it. [laughter] If you're not making money from it. >> For how long though? Because said there's a six months or is like the immediately one. >> Mm. So, first So, the the timeline I usually give myself for anything is six months, right? The timeline And that's because while I was trying to land while I was working with Nigerian clients I was actively trying to land dollar paying roles. And it took me seven months to land dollar paying roles.
36:48 So in my head, I'm I'm looking at six, seven, six months, actually, six months. So if you do if you do if you do something for six months, but then also when you're doing it for like one month, you you already start seeing signs. So you now ask yourself, are you the problem? Right? Am I the problem? Is my skill the problem? Am I just not good enough? And then you you need to be very very honest with yourself, right? Am I just not good enough? Now, if you are if you are actually able to to clarify or verify that, okay, yes, I am actually good enough. I am good at this thing. Then it's now to ask yourself, are you good at selling this thing? As I said, every freelancer, anybody with a remote skill, you need to learn sales, right? It's your skill is useless if you're not making money from it. So am I good enough? If you if you are able to click that box check that box,
37:34 okay, yes, I'm good enough. If you're not able to check the box, then it's now for you to work towards being good enough right? Now, if you're good enough, can I sell or am I good at selling myself? Now, if you're not good at selling yourself, that's where like maybe you can look into partnerships or whatever, or you can learn how to sell yourself. Almost you can everybody should be able to learn how to sell at least. Right? Now, if you can check those two boxes, you're good enough and you can sell yourself. I I am honestly I can I can beat my chest and say that you would never lack as as whatever the skill is. So that's it more or less. >> Do do you think someone can be successful, especially freelancing >> Yeah. >> by just watching YouTube videos? >> Hmm. I don't think so because I did try I I
38:21 tried I tried YouTube videos and then I had to got So because okay, as I said, like the first the first course the first course I ever got was as I have made miss course, which I said, right? Then I took the course. I found out, okay, maybe it wasn't it wasn't enough, right? It wasn't it wasn't all that. It was good at the point at least to bring me into the uh to just let me know of the whole thing, right? Awareness. And I put it like that. So it brought me into the stage. But then now, it was now for me to get good, >> Mhm. >> right? Uh, I tried YouTube videos, I tried blogs, I tried everything. But then I had to go to I had to get back into this I think her name is Sam Anderson, this Sam Anderson's copywriting course, which was like $15 at the time. So it was it was something. It was it was it was
39:07 an investment back then for me because I did not even have at all, right? >> How much did you have in your account at the time? Can you remember? >> Man, if the course was $15 and I got it for $15 and I tell you $15 was what I had. [laughter] $15 was what I had was what was what was what I had at the time, right? So yeah, uh, so that was that also worked. So again, I don't think I don't think YouTube is enough because I promise you almost there are very very few people who Yes, they can they can inform you, this thing is pain, this is what I do. But then the exact steps that they take because everybody is scared of saturation. Everybody is scared of or if I actually do this and then it goes viral and then a thousand people get into this thing. You get what I'm trying
39:52 to say? It's not going to spoil business for me. It's not going to make it more saturated. So that is why and that is why everybody on YouTube anybody any smart person on YouTube that is giving free information that is informing people, whatever, right? Any anyone that is smart enough should probably even create would probably have >> a paid program. Yeah, probably have a paid training. >> The whole point do you know that you should take a course or it's time to take a course? >> Should I say if you feel stuck? >> Right? I think I think I would say if you feel stuck. If you just truly don't know what next. Now you know freelancing pays, for example. You know there are freelancers who are making money. So if they have if they are freelancers who are making money, then they don't have to work. You can also make money, right? And you know that okay, yes, you've now gone through skills. Okay, yeah, I like this skill. Uh,
40:37 because so what a lot of things in courses few things actually are things that you could maybe almost find if you actually scour the internet enough, right? But then how do you know what next? >> Yeah. >> Courses give you structure. >> Mhm. >> It's telling you that if you do this and you follow it with this and then follow it with this and then follow it with this and then follow it with this, you're going to get results. >> Mhm. >> But let's say for example, you don't have a digital skill. If you don't know anything, you go and create Upwork account first. If you create Upwork account first, what exactly are you supposed to sell? You understand? What what service are you supposed to offer on Upwork, right? So courses give you structure. So honestly, in my opinion, in my opinion, anything that is probably valuable, anything that you know that would actually want to pay you, you probably have to pay for.
41:24 Right? Anything that is going to give you $1,000, you probably have to pay uh uh $10 or $50 or $100 for so anything that would pay you, you probably have to pay for. >> What have you paid for in terms of trainings and all of that that has had the highest ROI? >> Hm. What have I paid for that has Uh I I think I would probably say I I think I would probably say the first course I paid which is the first copywriting course I've paid for because again, I've made like very good amount of money from copywriting itself over the last few years. So I I I'll say that. Right? I I think I think I'll say that that the my the first ever copywriting course I paid for. >> Mhm. So let's do a little diving into Upwork >> Okay. >> right now. So somebody starting Upwork from the scratch, what are the basic things this person should know?
42:10 >> Hm. Don't think of other freelancers on Upwork as competition. I think that that's like the first thing because again, the first the the the number one issue with everybody, what everybody is saying is, oh, Upwork is saturated, Upwork is saturated, Upwork is saturated. But I don't think like what do you want to do in the world that is not saturated? What business do you want to start or come up with that is not saturated that they are not thousands of people already doing? Right? It's just what exactly do you bring to the [clears throat] table? Like what what what what is different about you, right? So most times it's it's either how how good are you or how good are you at selling? >> Mm. >> Right? So if you're very very good, you'll probably get noticed. If you're not that good, like you're
42:55 half halfway there, but then you're very good at selling yourself, then you definitely get noticed and then you also definitely uh get paid. So, like for example, the the whole thing that we did recently >> Yeah. >> optimizing your profile. Now, for the longest, the typical way of optimizing your Upwork profile >> Yeah. >> is looking at freelancers who have made thousands of dollars to optimize your Upwork profile, right? So, you look at, okay, what are the words that they are using? What are the what what's the thing what are the things they are saying or what you understand the the keywords, the structure, how exactly did they start with testimonials? Did they not start with testimonials? Did they do they are they creative? What is their tone? What is their voice? >> Yeah. >> Right? But now things have pivoted into not other freelancers that are doing well, but it has pivoted into what the market wants. >> Mm. >> Right? So, now instead of you looking
43:40 at, okay, what other what are the things other freelancers are doing well? Instead now, go to what is the title of job posts? What is the common title of job posts that clients in my industry are putting? So, is everybody saying uh B2B copywriter blah blah needed for this is you understand? So, based on what the market wants, that is how you now, okay, this is exactly what is going to be my title. So, your title now is now structured based on the title of job posts, no longer based on the title of other successful freelancers. Your your bio is now structured based on actual job posts >> Mm. >> from clients. Again, typically it used to be based on job based on the bio from other freelancers. Even the skills that you put, the soft skills, right, that you put under your skill, okay, these are the soft skills, it is now based on the soft skills from
44:27 clients' job post, right, from clients' job post. And so, if if if you're on Upwork, you you definitely understand what I mean. But more or less, right, we're listening to the market more than we're listening to the competition. >> What if I don't have a portfolio? How do I get one? >> So, for example, it's it's simple. So, let's say let me use what what skill can I use as an example? Maybe graphics design or whatever, right? So, now let's say let say you're a designer, right? All you need to create a portfolio is to design. Design something. Design something for yourself. Create an imaginary client. Imagine that oh there's this company that does a trillion dollars every single day and they need logo for blah blah blah or they need banner for this this this or you get what I'm trying to say? And then just design based off of that. The client doesn't have to be real. The the
45:14 the project itself is real. You're creating something and then you honestly you can even imagine the results that it's going to give, right? So um I created this banner, I created this flyer, I created this social media design whatever for this company and then so you look at it. What exactly are the numbers that that this thing would typically give? And then actually attach a a case study to it, right? So if you want to create a portfolio for any skill you're doing, just do that thing. Do it for an imaginary client if you cannot think of any random >> it doesn't necessarily have to be you making sure you landed a job first and then crafting a portfolio from that job? >> It's a smart way to actually go about it is check out job posts and do what those job posts want >> Mhm. >> and I put it in your portfolio, right? Even though you're not delivering the job yet because you know that okay yes you've not gotten you've not you you don't have a portfolio yet to show this
45:59 client that this is what I can do, right? So you can go through a job post, you see the job post, deliver the job post and honestly if you can even deliver the job post fast enough, actually reach out to the client and say see I've done it already. >> Ideally how many how many projects should um make up a portfolio? >> I do think three is enough. >> Yeah. >> I I do I do think three is enough. Three is what I started with so I think three is enough. >> Mhm. Should people on Upwork reduce their price so much that it's very cheap just because they want to get reviews? >> Nah. So here's the thing yeah. You also price down you price based on the composition, right? Because again it's like the same thing if you want to buy a cup or you want to buy a mic and there are 10 shops side by side and so if everybody else is selling at 10,000 naira and then you say you want to sell at 20,000 naira, you obviously you're not going to sell a lot,
46:45 >> Yeah. >> right? So you price based on competition and then the more you get better at what you do. So here's what I used to do. For every course I take, I increase my pricing even though I I've never even used the course to do anything. And it was also a way to to encourage yourself to grow, right? For So for every book I read that's related, not fiction, that's related to what I'm doing, right? I increase my pricing by tiny bits, whether it's just $1. For every course I take, I increase it. So it's just And then because you're becoming a more valuable person, >> Mm. >> right? So when you start, you want to be competitive, but the more valuable you get, then the more you should charge. So that's it more or less. >> So if you're starting from zero today, what would you charge for your skill? >> So if I were starting from zero today, now the the entry level the entry level
47:30 payments generally for for copywriters has gotten lower because of AI, right? Well, like when I started, I started I started charging me like $15 per hour, >> Mm-hmm. >> right? But right now, you probably have to charge like 10, >> Mm. >> right? 10 most likely, right? 10 or even slightly less slightly less than 10. Again, that's also because of AI and then also that is still being competitive. So you look at people on the low end, you look at people on the high end, and then fix yourself somewhere in the middle. >> Mm. [snorts] Do Do you think being a Nigerian cannot, you know, reduce your chance of landing jobs on Upwork? >> No. Now, if you say, do you think being a Nigerian can reduce your chances of landing cold like cold pitching, cold outreach, then yes. But on Upwork, no. Because these guys are looking They're not looking If they were looking for
48:16 people in their countries, then they would not drop their job post on Upwork. Do you understand? So they don't care where you are. They just care that you can do the job. So being a Nigerian, being wherever you're from, it actually has no impact at all >> Mm. >> on on your success on Upwork. >> Do you think Upwork is saturated at this point? >> As I said, I don't believe anything is saturated because as I So let's say for let's say right now on Upwork, there are I think 16 million freelancers. Out of although out of the 16 million freelancers, it's like 1 point something million are active, like active actively using the platform to land jobs, right? So let's see Now, if we see first, the 16 million is gone because they already say like 1 point something are active. So we have 1 point something million freelancers. >> Mm-hmm. >> I I don't think that is saturated in my opinion because for
49:01 let's even say for maybe for every job there are 10 freelancers. From the 10, there are nine shitty ones. So you're probably only just competing with one if you're good. >> Mm. >> That is what I think. >> So the hack is to get good. >> The hack is to get good and the hack is to you you don't you don't always have to get you don't always have to be an expert. If that's how it honestly sales is such a crucial skill cuz you don't always have to be an expert, but if you know how to sell yourself like an expert, you will get the jobs and then you now get better while doing the job more or less. So I I do think one of the major things again, anybody with a digital skill who wants to land jobs needs to do is learn sales, learn how to sell. >> Mm. >> Learn how to sell yourself, know the type of words to use, know how to endear yourself without without um I don't know if it's sucking up to the person that I would say
49:46 without because there there's a way you sell yourself you you sound desperate. You sound you get what I'm trying to say, but when if you actually know how to sell yourself well, right? The person on the receiving end is going to start feeling like oh I actually do need this guy. I need this person and then you now you you position yourself as a professional, right? And then when you position yourself as a professional as a professional, yeah, they are like uh okay. It's more like you're doing you're doing them a favor by by charging or getting paid the their budget than anything else. >> How do you overcome the trust barrier that people in the Western world have with Africans, especially Nigerians? >> Mm. So I do the first thing is
50:32 your work and the result from your work. If you don't have results from your work, then the first thing is your portfolio. So using graphic designers as an as an example again, if a client wants to hire a graphic designer, but then he doesn't trust you to deliver, just show him your designs and then don't just show him your designs, show him your thought process cuz if I just show you if I just give you a design I say or maybe a UI designer or whatever and say maybe I build this frame or whatever it is, right? I build this. It's more enough, >> Mm. >> right? But I built this. Here's the information that was given to me before I built this. Here's my thoughts process. You understand? And then just make it short. It's not like you're giving them novel or anything, right? And then do that. Now, once you do that,
51:19 you'd see that they will start okay, this person is a professional. This person this person actually went through stages to get to this final design. It's not just because any if I just say oh I built this, it's not enough because I can I can go to anybody's portfolio and download it and say it's my own. >> Yeah, true. >> Right? But if I can show you the steps at which I got here, then I do think that that plays a very very huge role in okay, yes, trust because once they once they know that you can deliver, >> Mm. >> once they know that you can deliver, then they have absolutely no issues. And Upwork works as an escrow platform by the way. So if you don't deliver, you don't get paid, >> Mm. >> right? And if you deliver, you do get paid. So how I mean by as an escrow platform is before you land the job, as long as the client has sent you an offer and you've accepted, >> Mm.
52:04 >> they take the money out of the client's account, >> Mm. >> right? They take as long as that's why you see the payment verified. That's this person the money that this person wants to pay, we've already checked the account to make sure that okay, yes, the money is there, right? And then when they now land the job, then Upwork now removes the money from the client's account, they debit the client, and then the money is on escrow. When you deliver the job, you submit the work and then Upwork shows the client and the clients go through that okay, yes, the person has submitted the work, Upwork is going to release the money. If the client doesn't go through that the person has submitted the work, after like a few days Upwork is still going to give you the money regardless, right? So that is just it honestly. >> [snorts] >> Life in the world of freelancer, you wake up um after every necessary thing, you open your laptop, you want to apply for jobs. There are a lot of jobs there. How do you know what to apply for? >> First thing, payment verified. It's like it's like the number one most important
52:51 thing. As this person like as Upwork gone through this person's account and saying that okay, yes, the money is there for the person to pay me. Now, if you are if you are you're talking about me, yeah, not just any entry level freelancer, you're talking about me like a day in my life just wanting to pitch for jobs. >> I I never heard that person there. >> Okay. So, if it's if it's if it's So, if it's me, yeah, or every other person, let let me use me for example because I I'd like to think But if it's me, first things first, payment's verified. >> Mhm. >> I don't typically look at maybe how many people asked to pitch for the job. Then I go through the job post. Is it Is this something I can do? >> Mhm. >> When I go through Is this something I can do? Then the question now is how do I stand out from the other freelancers who have pitched for this job? >> Mhm. >> What can I do? >> Mhm. >> Right? Do I Do I just give the get a draft
53:37 ready? Right? Do I get the client's information? Can I reach out to this person outside Upwork? And that is like my usually my like my number one criteria. Can I get this person's details? Can I know this person? Do I Do I know the person behind the business? If you don't know the person behind the business, then you probably should not pitch for the job. >> Mhm. >> Right? But if I know the person Upwork Upwork works with connect. You don't want to waste your connect. Now, if I can't pitch for a job and how how do I put it? If you're speaking to a person, like I can say if I if I come if I come to you right now and I say um the Entrepreneur's Connect show, please, I want uh please, I'm a video editor and I would like to edit your videos. What if I say, hey Joseph, I mean You get what I'm trying to say? If you know
54:23 the person, you'll be able to speak >> Mhm. >> to the person. But if you speak to the business, you will always get a business response. But if you speak to the person, then you get a personal response. >> Mhm. Got it. >> So, more or less you always just want to speak to the person behind the business. And there's always somebody behind the business. Now, if you can find a way to speak to that person, then there's a very very high possibility that you will get the job even though there are others that are better than you. >> What What are the potential red flags
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