Mental Health Seminar l 12 July 2025

0:03 Oh, charing. Nice. Another meeting.

0:54 So this primarily means It's even possible that not happens. Al.

1:57 She go down to come You won't be able to detail

2:50 this presentation. Lots of questions I know she touched

3:51 Sh. Let's begin with number 42 from the the supplement and that will give me time to think about the next choice. Jesus my Lord to thee I cry and yes thou help me I must die. Oh bring thy free salvation number 4.

4:38 to decon. Oh, my own

5:27 me as I am. Helpless I am and full of guilt, but yet for me thy blood was spilled. And thou cast make me what thou wilt. And take me Zion. And take me Zion. And take me Zion.

6:13 my own plea. Christ died for me or take me as I am. No prearation can I make. My best resource I only break. Yet save me for thy own name's sake and take me as I am. And take me as I am.

7:12 My only plea. Christ died for me. Oh, take me as I am. Behold me, Savior, at thy feet. Deal with me as thou seeest meat. Thy work begin thy work complete and take me as I am.

7:58 and take me as and take me my only plea. Christ died for me or take me as a young Let's have a choice. Anyone with a choice?

8:46 48. Marvelous grace of our loving Lord. Marvelous grace of our loving Lord. Sing. Marvelous grace of our loving Lord. Grace that exceeds our sin and our guil. Beyond on Calvary's mouth outpour there where the blood of the lamb was spilled.

9:32 Grace that will pardon and cla within grace. Great. God's grace. Grace that is greater than all our sin. Sin and despair like the sea waves call. Threaten the soul with infinity grow. Pray that is great as great Santo points to the refu the mighty

10:19 Rome. Grace grace that is well done and praise within. Grace, grace, God's grace, grace that is greater than all our sin. What is their stain neither he can nor high? What can a veil do to wash it away? Look, there is flowing a c on time.

11:10 Whiter than snow you may be today. Grace, grace. God's grace, grace that is brought on earth cleans within. Grace, grace, God's grace, grace that is greater than all our sin. marvelous infinite marless grail bestowed

11:56 on all who believe. You that are longing to see his fame. Will you this moment his grace? Receive grace. Grace, God's grace, grace that will pardon and cleanse within. Grace, grace, God's grace, grace that is greater than all our sin.

12:45 Right. I'll lead us in prayer and then invite professor Beway to come and u lead us. Let's pray. Father, we thank you for this day and especially for this special moment in which we we will take time to reflect on the whole question of mental health. We ask you to be present with us first to help those of us that make presentations and also field questions. Grant us wisdom.

13:31 Grant us the ability to respond to questions carefully, pointedly, accurately. And we pray that you will help everyone attending this seminar. Some perhaps who may have challenges with their mental health and others just seeking to learn so they can be helpful to others. Lord help us each one and make our time valuable and helpful in Jesus name. Amen. Amen.

14:17 Professor is This is what is coming next. Okay.

15:18 So, good afternoon um everyone and um I'm just waiting for I've been told to wait a minute uh as the it takes uh uh presents what I'm going to present as the pastor had said uh this will be a brief pre presentation I hope you can see it on the board now okay thank you very much um we'll just give you a synopsis of um the presentation

16:03 and um it is about mental health. Has it moved? No, not yet. Okay. Okay, I'll go on. I think um I think the beginning of the presentation is about our health and um Okay. Okay. Sorry.

16:55 Okay, sorry it's still in Langa River. Yes. So we will begin with a few definitions. Um I think you have heard before and uh we will repeat uh the beginning is health and uh health by wh definition which was um uh written and agreed upon in 1948. It says health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not

17:41 merely the absence of disease or infirmity. Okay. When we this is a you can see that um what it means here is that um it is a combination of our physical being, our mental being and our social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity. This means that uh you can have no malaria, you can have no TB but also be mentally uh mentally or physically not well.

18:26 Okay. So they say that sometimes you can find somebody in a suit very well dressed or very well looking but it is only when they start to speak that you know that there must be something wrong here. So it's not it's not merely the absence of disease or infirmity but it is the physical, mental um and social well-being uh and not merely uh the absence of disease and um mental health as you can see is

19:12 an integral and essential component of health. It is in the definition and therefore it is an essential component of health. And then what is mental health? There are several definitions, but I I I liked this simplified one which says that mental health is a state of well-being in which an individual realizes his or her abilities and can cope with the normal stresses of life and also can work productively and is able to make a contribution to his or her community. So there is no one

20:01 uh this I think is a simplified one. Uh the main thing is that it is a person who can cope uh with the normal stresses of life and can work productively and is able to make a contribution uh to to life. And therefore mental health is determined by a complex interplay of what is happening uh in an individual the social and structural stresses and vulnerabilities. So it's a complex things that affect the mental status uh of a of an individual.

20:48 And mental health is fundamental to our collective and individual ability as human beings to think clearly and also to interact with each other. as well as uh it helps us to earn a living as well as enjoy uh life. The ability as humans to think, interact with each other and living and enjoying life collectively as well as uh individually. And it is on this basis that uh mental health is essential for all of us. Uh

21:33 that the promotion and the protection and restoration of mental health can be regarded as a vital concern of individuals, communities, the church and societies throughout the world. So it affects everyone not in one part of the world but everyone else that lives on on earth uh requires mental uh good and well mental health and uh some of you may also wonder what is this uh what are the components of this mental health? Mental health is like an

22:20 umbrella word. It's like an umbrella word. And uh it would it would be good for you to also know that there are specific mental disorders uh that we see uh among our among our people in the community. Uh I think you have heard these technical terms but some are not very technical but the common ones that we usually see as the specific mental disorders include anxiety disorders uh depression, bipolar disorder,

23:06 posttraumatic stress disorder, schizophrenia uh eating disorders, disruptive behavior and social dissoci disorders and then the neurodedevelopmental uh disorders. Okay, I hope it doesn't sound Greek but um I have tried to describe them so that just the essential meaning of each one of them uh because these uh constitute what we call mental disorders. I think you have heard before anxiety disorders.

23:54 This is uh characterized by excessive fear and worry related to uh behavioral dis dis disturbances and uh generalized anxiety disorder is characterized by excessive worry. I think there is worry which is normal but also there is the excessive worry which is pathological or which is abnormal. And then the other common one which we usually uh feel when things are not going bad good is depression. Now some of the key characteristics

24:39 of depression are feeling sad, irritable or empty or you loss of pleasure or loss of interest in certain things. And for most of the days nearly every day uh at least for 2 weeks if this state continues then it is declared as uh depression. Other things related to depression are poor concentration, feeling excessive guilty or low self-esteem or hopelessness and many other things that we feel when we are depressed when things go wrong.

25:26 These are some of the features of what I had mentioned earlier as a one of the things some of the features of these mental uh disorders. The third one is bipolar disorder. I think you have heard this as a description that oh that person is bipolar. And what it means is that uh people with bipolar disorder experience alternating depressive episodes with periods of manic symptoms. Depressive meaning that they are usually

26:12 very very quiet, very sad. But another minute or so they become manic meaning that they become restless. They start talking too much. They start walking around and then later on sit down and be very quiet. So the the buy is depression. The other side the second one is manic. Okay, there are common words in our languages which would explain this. Uh depression definitely is sad but manic is when they when you find suddenly somebody is in yanja we say I am you

27:02 know meaning is just talking nonstop I think the members also say something isn't it and founded Okay. Suddenly somebody is talking about other things that's being manic you know like I you know even though he doesn't know HH he says no I know hh I know her kind very well we stay together in state house you know things from without uh those um manic features and then there is posttraumatic stress disorder and um this usually

27:50 These disorders are high in conflict affected settings or exposure to an extremely threatening or horrific event uh may bring a what is called post-traumatic stress disorder where sometimes you may relieve some of the things that you see that you saw maybe they come in dreams uh very bad incidences I can give an example of um I was working somewhere uh in a UN building and then Bukaram decided to blow it up and uh 29 of our

28:36 colleagues died on the spot. uh it wasn't a good sin and then two years later we tried to have a time when we could uh talk about it and when we started just to present the scene of what happened about 10 or so people just started crying and we had to discontinue the the presentation because they were relieving what went on after the bombing uh to see their close friends die and um uh some of them were not able to to deal with it. Uh I remember the UN brought a psychiatrist.

29:23 Uh but no one went to see the psychiatrist. Uh because I think in Africa for you to go and see a psychiatrist uh they will think that you are not all right. But when we brought pastors and imams and things like that, people flocked to them uh to get to get help. And then there is a term which you might have heard schizophrenia. Schizophrenia is characterized by significant impairment in perception and changes in behavior and symptoms may include persistent delusion uh hallucinations, disorganized thinking, highly

30:11 disorganized behavior or extreme agitation. Okay, I think those explain uh for themselves. Uh also another uh some of the features of the another example of the mental disorder is the eating disorders and eating disorders such as anorexia neosa. There are you know women very rarely men who want to keep slim. Okay. And therefore sometimes they even eat food and put their finger in the in the throat and they vomit uh so that the food does not settle but they may do

30:57 overdo it. this thing that I only take tea or these small things uh just for the sake of uh it can go overboard and somebody can have severe malnutrition just because of not eating um uh food adequately and also balanced diet and also there is the abnormal eating uh preoccupation with food as well as prominent body weight and shape concerns. These can be excessive and uh it may be considered as a mental

31:43 disorder. And then there is uh the disruptive behavior and dissoci who just bring up trouble. Okay. um they don't want peace. All they want is problems and are also known as the conduct disorder. Okay, I think you can see like in my family I mean we were 13 of us. Okay. One father, one mother. And my mother continually used to say meaning all of you will not be okay.

32:34 Okay? Meaning one of you may actually divert from the normal behavior. And it's interesting you know her words were were true. I'm not saying one of my siblings became a capondo. No. But I could see it in other families. One or two becomes very disruptive and you don't know why he is doing that. I remember one child who was very active, very aggressive, very defiant and uh started burning things which had wood or grass uh just like that. So it could be a disruptive behavior and social uh behavior.

33:21 And the other the last one that I I want to mention is the neurodedevelopmental disorder. The neurodedevelopmental disorders include disorders of intellectual development and the common words which you we hear about autism spectrum disorder and uh these and many others fall under neuro development uh disorders. But the common one that we now commonly hear is autism. And uh this we see it uh because I'm a I'm a pediatrician by by trade. Uh so

34:06 children are my my patients. So autism usually starts in childhood and uh this one usually we see it and later on we can talk about some of the characteristics and therefore this is why I have put autism as one of the key things that I wanted to mention. Uh the World Health Organization recognizes autism spectrum disorders as a diverse group of conditions related to brain development. It is characterized by persistent challenges with social communication and interaction along with restricted or

34:54 repetitive behaviors and interest. Uh the WHO emphasizes that ASD is a lifelong condition but the severity and specific needs uh vary greatly among individuals. Uh so this is something that for those who have children that look different, they could have uh autism and it may be severe or very mild and people have lived uh through with some of its symptoms and therefore who is at risk from developing mental disorders. I think these uh anybody who is some of

35:43 the things that I have been identified include poverty, violence, disability, uh inequalities, social dysfunction. uh I have seen it very clearly with some of our relatives who have divorced and also what it has had effect on the children and also other people some children have definitely reacted to that. Is there any treatment available? Yes. Uh we have seen uh some of the people who have been treated or at least their uh mental disorder controlled by medication as

36:30 well as psychosocial support uh which can be uh considered. I'll stop here uh because this is what we mentioned last time. I have just given you the definition of health, mental health and given you some

37:54 I didn't get a chance to summarize what I did last time. I I'll do it as we go along in just a few minutes. uh there are many points of intersection between the medical and the the biblical. Uh so some things that professor mentioned I did mention I could mention but I won't be going over that. I'll just give us an idea very swiftly what we considered the last time. Um

38:39 I mentioned misconceptions of mental health and um there are eight misconceptions we could talk about. I'm not going to go over that just now. And then uh the definition and description of mental health as professor mentioned it's a term used to describe emotional psychological social and spiritual well-being. Mental health encompasses positive feelings, thoughts, actions that help you enjoy life, cope with challenges,

39:25 and honor God. But there are challenges to mental health. We I think we are more conscious of the challenges and we tend to talk about challenges than we do the positive expression of uh mental health. There are many challenges. There are environmental stressors. You know, we can't run away from them when we live in a fallen world, a world um affected by sin, a world consisting in thorns and thistles as Genesis 3:E

40:10 18. When we live in such a world, we will be challenged. Even our mental health will be challenged. That is to speak in general. There are also individual stress factors that challenge our mental well-being. U long-term illness can do that. Loss of loved ones can do that. Hardship in life could be associated with old age, with poverty, with discrimination. All of those can have some impact on our mental well-being. Um, professor mentioned

40:55 the general expressions of mental health disorder. I won't go over that. Last time I presented, I narrowed it down to depression in particular, which is one expression of um mental the challenge to mental health. And uh we saw that depression is and this is defined by a doctor who was also a biblical counselor, Dr. Robert Smith. He's written a very good book called um coun the counselor's medical desk.

41:42 Um it's an excellent book. So he he gives knowledge to counselors of various medical conditions and he also shares how they are handled in the medical context. But he gives counsel to biblical counselors on how to help people who may be suffering from those same uh conditions from a biblical perspective. So he defines depression as a debilitating mood, feeling or attitude of hopelessness which becomes a person's reason for not handling the most important issues of life. So they can't function well

42:29 mentally, emotionally, um sometimes even physically. And so they fail to live their lives normally. They don't do life as they would normally do it. Life breaks down. They can't function normally. Another person defines depression. This is a a Puritan. So this is a a 16th 17th century definition. He described the feeling of the depressed. And in those days they called the depress the depressed the melancholic. He says they are in great pain, horror

43:17 of mind, destruction of soul, restlessness, full of continual fears, cares, torment, anxieties. They can neither drink, eat nor sleep. Truly debilitating. And as a pastor, I meet with many who go through this. and in Africa and having also labored in a more western type context. I pastored a a white church for 10 years. Um I find that our friends express themselves a bit more about these issues than we do. A lot of Africans just suffer quietly

44:05 and uh don't usually seek help until it's it's a bit too severe, sometimes even too late. So when I moved to South Africa, I suddenly found I had I was dealing with so many of these cases and I hardly dealt with those cases here in Zambia. One or two, but not usual. Well, the truth is a lot of us actually suffer from depression and uh I think more and more people are beginning to come out these days. There's a bit more freedom. Depression is common. That is one point I was making. One in five people experience

44:52 depression. There were statistics that estimated that about 120 million people worldwide suffer from depression. Then we narrowed it down. We said depression is also common among Christians partly because they also live in the world. But sometimes the state of the church is not so good. that can be a a source of depression or can make the problem of depression worse. Um, and there is a lot of bad news in the world, including in the church. Unfortunately,

45:37 we find that in the Bible, Bible characters battled with depression. You can read about Cain, Elijah, David, Jeremiah, so much more. Um, David describes himself as having been cast down. That's a biblical way of talking about depression. So, depression is common. Secondly, depression is misunderstood. There's a terrible stigma attached to depression. professor gave an example of uh people who would who don't go to see a psychiatrist. He brought a psychiatrist to help and people won't go to see him because they don't want to be associated with the

46:23 problem. They brought a pastor and uh what do the Muslim pastors called what are they called? an e-map and people could go there because uh there is less stigma. So that is because there's a lot of misunderstanding around depression. We also pointed out that depression is indicated by various symptoms. There are symptoms that affect thoughts. So you see unhelpful thought patterns and we looked at 10 false thought patterns. We don't have time to

47:10 go through all of that today but uh there were various ways in which thought is affected. And then we also saw that depression affects the body and bodily symptoms could include disturbed sleep. You can read about that in Job chapter 7. Tiredness. Psalm chapter 6, Psalm 69. Weight fluctuations. Job 17, Job 19. Digestive problems. Okay. Can't digest your food properly. Lamentations. Chapter 3:15. Loss of appetite.

47:56 Psalm 42. Bodily pain. Psalm 31. Psalm 32. Psalm 38. A choking feeling. Um, what do you call it in in the Eastern province? Yeah, you feel like you're choking and it's depression. So chalking, feeling breathlessness. Um Psalm 32, if you study that psalm, it describes the bodily consequences of guilt. Okay, someone is battling with guilt and they are feeling the effects of that in the body. Um,

48:46 that's quite common. And then there are symptoms affecting behavior and activity. Uh, what you used to enjoy in life, you no longer enjoy it. Some even stop going to church. They stop having fellowship. They give up on their habits, their hobbies, their leisure interests, you know, they just lock themselves out themselves in the house and u some lock themselves and just spend time eating something they would not normally have done and they gain weight and you know life just becomes something else.

49:31 Um, and you also start doing things that make you feel even worse. I've spoken about staying indoors because that's not a normal thing. It's an abnormal thing. When you do the abnormal thing, it actually worsens your condition. Some turn to alcohol. They they want to stop feeling these bad effects. So they want to dampen the feeling and uh so they give themselves to to to alcohol and because of their behavior even people who would otherwise want to help them to spend time with them uh can't take it and uh so they push people

50:18 away who in fact intend to care for them and the situation only gets worse. What causes depression? Generally speaking, as I have said, living in a sinful world causes can cause uh depression. But there are also specific things that may causes cause it both in the physical and the spiritual realm. There are spiritual causes, physical causes. Uh some of those causes could be genetic. Um others could be due to brain chemistry. Uh a lot of this has never really been

51:06 proven scientifically. Um like you have a psychiatrist diagnosing someone as having a chemical imbalance. Okay. Now he can't bring proof to show you that there is a chemical imbalance. But normally what they do is they give you medication. Okay? And if you respond positively, they then conclude that there must have been a chemical a chemical problem. So brain chemistry post adrenal adrenaline depression. So um I I experience this every Monday after working hard during the week on Monday I crash. So uh the first half of

51:55 my day on Monday I'm not I don't feel well. Uh I start feeling better after lunchtime you know on Sunday because of just being under a lot of pressure throughout the week. High adrenaline and then sudden drop that's how I feel it in in the ministry we call them the Monday blues. Uh premenstral syndrome uh physical illness those things can cause depression. side effect of drugs. Um, believe it or not, but as a pastor, sometimes when someone comes to me with a depression problem, I ask them whether they are taking any drugs. And there are

52:42 drugs that can cause depression, improper diet, insufficient exercise, and old age. Those of you who are in that bracket know what I'm talking about. Yeah, sometimes there's no problem. You know, you wake up, you're just feeling low, down. Um, and it doesn't even occur to you that it could be because you're over 60. Um, and u sometimes you will experience things like psycho psychological causes, you know, the way we think. And uh sometimes we think the way we think because we were brought up to

53:28 think like that. And it could all be wrong thinking. Wrong thinking. And wrong thinking leads us to depressions and then spiritual causes. And uh the first spiritual causes could be Satan. Satan is alive. is real. He's gigging and he can cause us depression. Sin, I want to suggest from where I stand as a pastor dealing with people, sin most of the time is the cause of depression. Most of the time, overt sin. Someone is living a sinful

54:15 lifestyle. If you're a believer and you're living a simple lifestyle, you can't be happy. You'll be sad most of the time because of the way you are living over saying hidden or unresolved sin. Hidden or unresolved sin um unresolved guilt can cause depression. Responding wrongly to life. We live in a broken world. And although we all live in the bro in a broken world, some people uh thrive in this same broken world, they are doing okay. But there are others who are crushed.

55:00 They are exposed to exactly the same circumstances, but they are crushed. And the difference could be how they respond to the situation. So when we are helping people, we spend a lot of time training them to respond correctly to the situation they are in. And then there is sin that dwells in us. Even when we become Christians, there are remains of sin in our hearts. And those remains can cause us depression. and then adopting and being controlled by unbiblical beliefs and biblical values and biblical worldviews and

55:48 biblical culture. There's a lot we do in our culture which is unbiblical and it will cause us trouble. World views that are not rooted in the word of God. values we have picked up and we really believe you know this is what makes us who we are. We are Africans but they are they are wrong values. They are not founded on righteous thinking and they cause us problems if we are Christians. Circumstances of life they are often oppressing. You can read

56:34 the case of the psalmist Psalm 73. He thought, you know, the wicked are the ones who are flourishing. They are the ones who are happy. I am righteous, but look at me. I'm plagued every day. What do I stand to gain for my righteousness? Um, he found the circumstances of life difficult to explain. The sovereignty of God can also cause. In other words, God may allow depression, may allow us to experience it. And u we can't even explain why. Okay? We can't explain it, but God allows it.

57:20 And because God allows it for us believers, it is meant for our good. He works out all things uh for the good of those who love him, who are called according to his purpose. And he may be working it out for our good, but we we can't explain why we are feeling the way we are feeling and um we find to see the hand of God in it. Um we have to be educated uh biblically to start seeing that. And then we also looked at the fact that depression is cured and the cure is dependent on the cause of depression and there are four main categories of

58:06 solutions. We looked at the medical model or the drug treatment model. So if it can be demonstrated that in fact uh you know it is being caused by a physical problem. Uh medicines are useful psychotropic drugs you know drugs which affect moods and thought they can be very useful. uh psychological solutions if the cause is psychological. There are psychology therapies that uh uh people are subjected to. Some are good or helpful, others are not so helpful especially for Christians. Uh

58:54 psychoanalysis used to be very popular where you're dealing with uh feelings that are hidden. You know they are in the subconscious life of a person and a therapist tries to draw out those feelings uh using um psycho therapy psychoanalysis so that they can deal with them through psychotherapy. A physiological therapy that's really more like using medicine. Behavioral therapy which just targets behavior. We change behavior. we heal the person. Um there's cognitive therapy in Christian counseling. We can we find

59:42 that you know cognitive therapy can be useful where you are trying to change the thinking patterns of people. They are thinking wrongly that's why they are feeling the way they are feeling. So you try to help them to think correctly so that that influences the way they feel. Humanistic therapy is one where they don't really attack the problem directly. They they treat them well in the hope that when they they feel good about themselves, it will dampen the bad feelings, you know, in themselves. That is why it's called humanistic uh therapy. Those are psych psychological solutions. And then biblical solutions. If the cause is

1:00:28 spiritual, um the there are biblical solutions that deal with that. Um if the cause is physical, um someone may come to me thinking they have a spiritual problem and as I talk to them, I find that in fact their problem is physical. So I may send them to a doctor because the doctor is the one who deal with physical issues. um maybe they're not sleeping enough. So I will prescribe sleep and I can say go and see a doctor and the doctor will help prescribe some sleep medicine for you. Um nutrition

1:01:16 um exercise etc. So uh I'll be able to say your problem is not spiritual. It looks sounds like it's physical and I can propose a number of uh a number of things. If the problem is social or relational um maybe they need to be helped to overcome a conflict with someone else. Um they need to be trained to relate to other. There are people who just don't know how to relate to people. They didn't grow up that way. They didn't get any example from anybody. So they don't know how to relate and counseling will be about training them to relate with people in a biblical way.

1:02:03 Uh some uh believe that they are loners. Okay? And they even glory in it. You know me, I just enjoy my my my quiet space alone. There is room for being alone. But uh we are meant to be social beings. We are created in the image of God who is trinity. Okay. God is trinity and he made us uh in his image. He said about Adam that it was not good for him to be alone. So if it is not good for you to be alone, why should you be alone? You need to develop friendships. uh and that will help to cure uh depression that comes as a result of

1:02:49 poor social problems. The problem could be lifestyle. Uh so the help will relate to training someone to correct their lifestyle. Um the problem I've spoken about the spiritual problem uh if they are living in sin they need to repent they need to come to Christ all of those things are important so that is basically what we covered the last time so what we will do now is uh we will set up I think we won't set up a panel here. We'll be

1:03:35 coming up here to speak because I think this is also being beamed uh on Facebook and YouTube. So for the sake of uh those who are watching us, it's probably better that we we we speak from here. Um so if you have questions, we are going to start with questions from the floor. Um you will is this mic working? Oh, there will be uh there's a remote mic. So, Touava will go around passing the mic to you if you have a question to us. So, we'll begin with questions you may have from the floor and we also have other questions that uh are written

1:04:21 down. So we'll be picking up uh the written down questions and then we'll turn to you and um you can ask please feel free to do that and we'll try our best to answer your questions who will start and feel free to ask medical spiritual uh professor is also a Christian so he's able to answer spiritual questions as well. Okay. All right. I can see a hand right at the back. Uh, okay. Can we start with you and then we'll go to the back? Yes.

1:05:30 It was the first time that's ever happened and yeah, just asking for guidance and counsel on how to what to do in a state of emergency. Yes. Okay. So, let's just clarify your question. So this friend is contemplating taking his life. Yes. Because of a circumstance. Yeah. So they come from a dysfunctional home and they also don't like the course they're doing. It's more so to please their parents and so they find joy in being at university. Um yeah, they just don't really like it. Um it's just and also the experience with their their dads how he um

1:06:18 hurt their mom and yeah it was a lot of family dynamics around that. Okay. So these are people who just don't have any sense of joy or fulfillment in life and have come to the place where they think what's the point of living and uh have even contemplated suicide. Okay. Professor would you like to comment? Yeah. can that if if the mic can be improved that will be best. Um it's not really performing that well but go ahead. Mhm.

1:07:03 Thank you very much. Um your question was how does one respond to uh if there is a state of uh emergency something like that like someone who has said you that um I'm just about to jump. Mhm. Yeah. So there are many reactions to that. Sometimes all you need to do is you may need to to them with

1:07:49 the is given to you because you might start giving answers out of allow to to speak because just like the questionnaire had the person who asked the question I said that uh slowly he understood that is from a dysfunctional uh home maybe uh somebody uh who have his okay uh divorced and they don't know what to do or they have failed an exam. There are some we have one or two students

1:08:36 drunk know how to their uh their parents or the gu. So sometimes it's good just to to rush be with them before they do any or just keep them talking on the phone as you go to and then you reach there you pray with them but also give them room to explain some of the things uh that like what you said is more of what they call parasuicide somebody attempting ing uh to kill himself. One

1:09:22 it could be he really wanted to kill himself but sometime he is seeking for attention. He's he's looking around and say who can help. If you called you be the he's really looking for answers. So it's better you go with them, go there and pray with them and talk and also continue to make friends with that with that person. Uh because you could also have had a similar situation which you went managed to uh to overcome. Uh but these usually they are context dependent different

1:10:08 things that we we problem otherwise if you share it with another person you find that it's not a a problem. Uh we get a lot of students who very brilliant uh students who come to us and say not right and you can visibly see somebody crying in front of you. What do you do? And therefore uh you have to find out the root cause. The root cause uh there we have had instances of children who come from very rich families. They have everything. They go to school, they drive with a

1:10:55 message, they kill themselves. Uh so there must be a root cause and uh sometimes I like the people who job for several days without talking. Yeah. But just hearing him, you know, talk and things like that's therapeutic enough. uh but as a as a Christian uh you know it it follows that uh you need to to be there to to be supportive and therefore also it may signify that he much he needs much more attention than he is depicting just

1:11:40 being with them just uh let's go for lunch uh you talk you talk you find that something will come up and you deal with it and pray and also bring it maybe to to church to to be helped with the elders. So it's a common thing especially among the youth but also even adults uh even people with gray hair uh like me uh they they mentioned us in the presentation about old people. We have also other uh challenges. It's not that we have lived all the life but we also have other things that we face.

1:12:26 Uh loneliness uh see the meaning of life and things like that. Uh it is important that as Christians we we make friends of that's where that term making friends of God's children because they are also going through the same problem as you are going through as a Christian to to be there to help each other not to entertain thoughts of uh suicide. It's a very important question. Those are my thoughts at the moment, pastor. Yeah, thank you very much. Um, a few

1:13:12 words to emphasize presence going over to the person and just being with them. Mention was mention uh made of the uh the friends of Job. Uh they are usually cited as examples of how not to council but they something good they did which was when they were silent. All right. They just went there and sat with him for a long time. They just sat with him and said nothing. And that in itself was comforting. And uh so there are people who may not be they may not know what to say in the

1:13:57 situation. I do find a lot of believers you know when they are doing hospital visits visiting someone but they don't know what to say to him. So they are just there by the bedside very silent don't know what to say. Um it's okay not to say anything. Okay. presence has its place and then uh there was mention of prayer. Um I can add when the the the time is right. Okay. The there are times when people are in a crisis and you open your mouth they they don't

1:14:44 even hear what you say. Okay. um in in such a moment they can't hear you. They are they're anxious, they are hopeless, they are focusing on something else. So words don't always mean anything to them in that moment. But once you've been there for a while and you can also sense that they have come down, uh say something. Um I was thinking as professor was speaking of uh Psalm 42. The psalmist was uh cast down. His soul was cast down and he counsels his own

1:15:30 soul. He talks to his soul and he says why are you downcast or my soul? And then he offers counsel. He says uh hope in God. Okay. hope in God. And he defines precisely what people in those situations what situation what people in those situations are actually experiencing hopelessness. So you need to say something that will give hope. Okay? Something that will give um hope. I think that is very important. Thank you. Um there was a hand right at the back.

1:16:16 I can't see clearly. Is that Dr. Mulena? Okay. Not a medical doctor, by the way. No, thank you so much for the presentations. They're very helpful. Um I just wanted to ask how one assists someone who is unwilling to receive help. As uh as you both mentioned in your talks, uh there are those who are uh showing signs of irrational behavior except they like uh in um in my case I have someone who swings between being a smart systematic

1:17:01 thinker to being irrational and basically saying they're seeing demons around and they would move to moves such as throwing property, throwing a perfectly good laptop out because probably it has demons. So how do you assist one who is unwilling uh to receive help and discount the medical uh people because they wouldn't understand a spiritual problem? They discuss they would discuss mainline uh mainline churches because they don't understand issues of witchcraft and uh the workings of Satan. How do you assist those? And also if their behavior seems to be attention seeking uh such that when they give some radical

1:17:48 story they get attention and then it seems to encourage them to do more of that stuff. Isn't the answer then to just ignore some of the things they do so that they don't derive that satisfaction from the excessive attention. So that's the second component in terms of response. Okay. I just want to understand your questions. So the first one is on one who is unwilling to receive help. Yes. And the question is how do you assess that someone is unwilling to receive help? No. You have kind of assessed that okay this person has irrationality. You you have assessed that they need help but they are not willing to uh receive that help. They feel no it's not

1:18:34 it's not something that the medics can help me with. It's not something that the pastors usually understand either. So they don't want so they they lack insight into themselves and uh they can't determine in fact they don't think they need help. They think they need help but they need help of a special sort that they themselves uh would be best placed to assess. So they would basically say no a medical doctor can't help me. A psychiatrist don't speak of uh seeking psychiatric help. It's not in that zone. So so they are the ones making this assessment. And then they'll say these are demons. This is witchcraft. And so when they think of sharing with regular people who are uh who would be

1:19:20 in the spiritual realm, they would say no, most pastors won't understand. They would discard this. So it's a kind of thing where they they've determined that okay certain people can't help me. Uh I must seek help from my own sources and so they start seeking these outlying kind of spiritual people. So how do you come to help such a person who's in that zone? Okay. And uh what do you do when you don't want to give attention to their their issues? Okay. Professor did you catch that? Okay. And then the second one Agatha um seeking attention. So they so when you are the recipient of their their their stories and you find that it's attention-seeking behavior

1:20:06 which when they get their attention feel better about themselves and do more irrational things. Isn't it better than to ignore some of their behavior? Okay, Prof. please uh your your comments. I think you you have you have a mic, don't you? Yeah. Maybe you should give him that the small mic. Mhm. Okay,

1:20:52 I just hold it not swallow it. So the question that you have asked is it's very very important because it has it has a impact on what needs. Oh, okay. Okay. Sorry. it has um uh sometimes uh problems with it. Uh the the question also is usually asked how do you know somebody is not well. Okay. Just like what you described some somebody may be asking for things which are impossible isn't it? And some

1:21:37 sometimes they themselves do not know that they are being irrational that they there is a problem and uh this is one of the I think key things about what they say psychiatric illness because the person doesn't know that he has a problem and therefore this is why If you have somebody in the house and he begins to act irrationally and confused and things like that when you ask him they may say I'm fine but you who is observing you know that this is out of norm and um

1:22:26 sometimes we know that taking people to hospital is very difficult especially psychiatric hospital it's a it's a very damaging thing. But this is where according to many places uh what we were taught and what we have seen is that if somebody does not have insight of what is the problem that relatives are really looking at that this is from different is person has become irrational. Ideally uh you do not take such a person alone to the to the psychiatric attention.

1:23:12 Okay. Ideally, a police officer or somebody from the law is supposed to escort you to the clinic or to the hospital uh and uh so that you are not accused later on that you did this thing deliberately. Okay. So, somebody who is really has a mental disorder does not have insight on what he's doing. It's the people from outside or in the family who know that he is behaving abnormally, irrationally and therefore needs psychiatric and in in the system where we cannot get a police officer or somebody

1:23:58 uh we can take him but ideally there should be somebody from the law to take him to escort you and then take him to a psychiatric clinic and there the doctor the psychiatrist will assess they'll allow him to talk and things like that and they will be able to identify what is the problem cuz th those are it's it's difficult because sometimes it may be your brother maybe your wife may be your opposition leader and uh such things have been used sometimes just to tent somebody they will the law will just come and pick you up because you are in the opposition

1:24:43 so that you test the life of a psychiatrist and uh do and then come back with that record that this person has been to a mental house or mental hospital. So there are many ways in which this porous area is used. But for you who is genuinely uh concerned maybe it's a relative, a friend or whatever and you are seeing things that are not normal. It's safer. You inform another person uh who also can testify that this this is not right and then take them to for assessment. The person who is concerned may argue.

1:25:30 They may even become uh disorderly. They may even become very rude and sometimes violent. But those are some of the manifestations of uh a mental illness. So sometimes tactfully you'd have to take them uh to a hospital or to somewhere where there are mental facilities and ask the doctor or just to assess the person to listen to them and see whether they fit fall into any of those categories uh where uh where he may require specific uh support. It's not a very easy thing to do

1:26:15 and uh definitely it has consequences and this is why just like what the pastor said when we see some of these things as Africans. We do not want the stigma that goes with it uh that this person went to this side and what what what you can't give him a job and things like that. So they would rather keep the person in the house uh because the person is manifesting unusual and they keep them in the house and not do anything about it. I have had sad moments where I have visited some relatives uh even in the villages.

1:27:03 I found a 14-year-old girl in a heart tied to a chain uh or to a rope and the child had been now was 15 years of age and these were people I used to pass by that house every day whenever I go to to see my relatives in the east until one child said uncle there's somebody in here. So because he knew she knew that I was a doctor. So when we open there is a girl 15 years I didn't know anything and they are relatives. So there are many who would rather keep somebody who is behaving abnormally in the house. Lock

1:27:49 them up chain them so that they do not have that stigma uh or fear of uh disrupting the status. But ideally uh if you want to help and you have sins get a help uh even from the church you can call one of the elders or the deacons and say please observe my relative and if you agree that this there is a problem here then they would it could be something that can be cured. It could be something that can be given uh medic a person can be given medication and they can get better

1:28:35 and uh they may also have not only a psychological but even a a physical disease which is causing somebody to behave like that. Okay. Simple malaria when it becomes cerebral malaria you find come you would think he has gone mad but actually it's malaria because it has become cerebral malaria or could be menitis things which can be treated and the person will come back to his normal self. So this is why we maybe I have a bias because I work in the medical and health area. Um uh there are

1:29:22 uh there are many people who provide this health service. Sometimes when you can't explain they will tell you that not even doctors can do this. Not even this one. Okay. And also even very close relatives who are not Christians and things like that will tell you this problem is for for the traditional healers and then you have to stand to say that no let's take let's take this person to be fully examined. They could be having a tumor in the brain. And when you do the necessary things, you find that you found the cause and the person's uh symptoms and signs begin to

1:30:11 uh be explained because they have an underlying disease. uh other other things we may not explain but still more they may benefit being being medically assessed to rule out things that uh medical doctors uh can deal with. There are other things that cannot be explained and this is maybe where the uh it could be something spiritual and uh truly it may be demons and that it's a different area altogether maybe the church not maybe but the church can assist and uh before coming here I was just looking at the kind of diseases our lord Jesus Christ was dealing with actually

1:30:59 quite a number had a mental area. Maybe they are convulsousing, you know, repeatedly. Uh a demon who is shouting or things like that. Uh in our days, we could say somebody who has a mental problem, but they also had physical uh diseases which the the Lord dealt with. But the point there is that that there was somebody who has the knowhow uh who can help and is available and can help you. It can be spiritual as well as uh physical uh disease. Um so

1:31:44 uh to answer I think I have said too many things Mr. Uh but just to to say that u it's important you have a person or a witness just if you are the one really concerned get a person a maybe your friend or just bring in your the elder as if it's just a normal visit and listen and say please listen to my brother or my friend, is this really abnormal behavior? Uh then you take the necessary steps whether they you think needs spiritual help or medical uh medical help. Uh because why

1:32:33 we say that a person who is not well mentally may not have an insight in the in his in his illness. He will not know that he's really sick actually. So this is why another person comes into to help them. Okay. So I think that that point where you realize that this person is doesn't know that actually is sick and that's when you help them. But don't use it for political means. Don't take somebody who is normal and throw them in jail uh just for political expedience. Uh that's outside the topic, isn't it?

1:33:20 Thank you very much. That's right. I think the word insight is key. Yeah. Um I'll keep this people some people with u medical rather mental uh challenges uh will not have insight into themselves. So they may be ill and they don't know that they are ill. Uh but if you who are observing can see that they their behavior is out of character um they won't take themselves to the hospital because they don't think they are ill. So you need to take steps to take them to the hospital.

1:34:06 Now to do that sometimes you you need the help of a policeman. Uh technically we say you need power of attorney okay you you are given um permission by the law okay to take that person. Uh I remember when I lived in South Africa, we had a lady in our church um with with this kind of challenge and uh it was very difficult to get her to the hospital. So I and my fellow elder we went and u we were given the power of attorney

1:34:53 so we could take her to the hospital sometimes even by force and we won't run into problems with the law. Um that is a necessary step because sometimes if you if you do it without the backing of the the law uh you you can be accused of being up to no good. Uh you can be accused of um um of calling someone mad. Okay, without proof that in fact they were. So you always need the the backing of the law. And here in Zambia, I have seen families who go to the police and

1:35:39 uh with the help of the police, they take their relative to the uh to the hospital and um that police witness is very important. Uh we don't often think about that. Um the there is the issue of someone who doesn't have insight into their problem but they also diagnose what they think their problem is and um they won't say it's a mental problem. They will often say maybe it's demons or it's witchcraft

1:36:24 or you know they will say something like that. So they'll basically redirect you. You are supposed to be going to the hospital but they redirect you go rather to a which doctor or go rather to a pastor and not just a pastor but one who understands spirits and one who can you know deliver them from from these uh uh spirits. So they self diagnose and um there's a principle I wanted to make in regard to that. If you took them to the doctor, the doctor will be looking for the symptoms that point to a mental problem.

1:37:12 Okay? They may diagnose that there is a a mental problem and give them appropriate help. But suppose you didn't go to the doctor. You went to the pastor. Hopefully not to the witch doctor. You go to to spiritual leaders. Well, spiritual leaders will not be trying to do the work of a doctor because they are not doctors. But if there are claims that there is a spiritual problem, maybe you know they are they are claiming that they are under demonic influence. Uh that they can do. they will you know start looking at the the the symptoms. Are they behaving not so much that they

1:37:58 are besides themselves but that there is some supernatural force at play. Okay. Um people who are demonp possessed uh you know they do things that humans don't normally do. Okay, an example um you can have a case of a demon manifest manifest in in a woman. Okay. Um a woman is supposed to speak in a feminine voice and they are not speaking in a feminine voice. They are speaking in a a big male voice. All right. Um that is unusual

1:38:46 and there are other unusual things they do because a a spirit being you know a supernatural spirit is is is controlling them. So it does become fairly obvious as you assess uh this person. So if that is where the problem is, you give them spiritual help. But it could be that they're making the claim that that is where the problem is. And you assess them and you think actually it's got nothing to do with spirits. It's got everything to do with the brain, okay? With the mind. And you

1:39:33 have to find a way then of getting them the right kind of help. Um the second question you raised about someone who is seeking uh attention. Um yeah maybe they are a little bit disturbed. Okay. And they enjoy attention. So they are telling you about what is wrong and they are going to town about it you know um because they enjoy having people hear them and um perhaps even surround them and give them help and so they they they keep seeking for that attention. uh you added something you said

1:40:20 shouldn't we just forget about such people because they are almost wasting your time. Well, suppose the mental problem there was mental retardation. Okay. So, it's not like they are confused or anything. They are, you know, maybe 40 year olds in a three-year-old uh mind. Okay. Um, so they, you know, they are behaving like a like a kid. They're talking, they're enjoying attention and so on. Um, do do you just bash them?

1:41:06 I think that you give them attention, but you give them the kind of attention you give to a three-year-old. Um, and for people like that, you could even tell them what they are supposed to be doing. You can give them commands. Okay, it's not time to do that. No, you can't talk now. You know, you you train you you train them to to to discipline themselves. You train them when to open their mouths and when to shut. You treat them like their their age. you know, they are 40, but they behave like three. So, you you go down and uh you you you train them to behave themselves. Um we we could we could do more. We

1:41:53 could say more about that. Uh what I'm trying to say is that maybe ignoring them totally is not the best. uh but giving them uh attention and and and and training them to accept the 10-minute attention you give to them. Uh so that they are not seeking for for for anything more. Uh that's just one one example. You might have had some example very different from what I'm thinking about Agatha. I think there's room for one more question. Yes.

1:42:51 Okay. Is is that on? Okay, that sounds Yes. Go ahead. I think it should be disruptive behaviors or social dysfunction or social behaviors. Yes, that one. So now I wanted to ask how to handle a case in which you're dealing with a believer

1:43:38 whose disruptive behaviors begin to affect you or you sort of become an outlet. So in the sense that it you being there is sort of harmful to you yourself and maybe perhaps you become aware of the effects on yourself. So then in that case do you withdraw and then how do you handle the effects that you are seeing coming out in yourself whether you find yourself now becoming depressed or going through um yeah not really having negative thoughts or anything. Okay. Yeah. No pretty much that. But so how do you handle that in a case where the behaviors begin to affect

1:44:25 you as you are trying to show care and be there? Yeah prof that is obviously your question. Oh thank you very much. Um there is that saying which I had said that uh uh you might find a gentleman or even a lady uh who is seated on their own. They look perfectly gentlemen or lady. I think there is a verse in somewhere which talks about this

1:45:11 uh that it's only when they open their mouth that you would know that this guy is either normal or not normal. Uh sometimes when we engage into a relationship, marriage or even at work um we may not know everything about the person and um I think this is why a meeting like this is is very important uh as pastor has said for you to also have an idea a to identify what they call

1:45:56 uh in in in in children we call danger signs uh when you see danger signs in a child who is sick. So it's the same in in the mental areas there are I think from this like this short seminar you are able to identify that I think in that seminar they said this uh it's a danger sign uh and therefore you have to recognize that this is beyond the normal and it's it's not always Um it's not advised to let it go.

1:46:42 Uh because it's important for you to identify that this person is usually happy then suddenly becomes very sad and things like that. Um I think it is for you like from here maybe what you can pick is that there are conditions like that. I think that's the message I can give. There are conditions like that and you have to recognize them first and uh after recognizing that this is not good for me then you need to take action and not withdraw but to take action to share it with somebody who is very close to you and say that I'm

1:47:27 having problems uh with this how can we collectively deal with this it's very sensitive ensitive. I think mental illness is very very sensitive and uh certain decisions when they are made uh it's it's not like malaria you know oh this one has fever headache what what what let's test and they are MP positive and you give coat it's not like that with uh some mental uh disorders they creep in maybe slowly or suddenly but if they are creeping and if you think that your life is not or you are not happy with it, it's better to seek help.

1:48:14 Uh even if it's a very it could be your husband. Sorry, I hope you are married. Uh or you're not married. Uh it is only when you marry, you stay with somebody, you begin to see certain things. Okay, maybe the way they walk is is not what you saw when you are romancing, isn't it? Uh the way they behave, the way they respond certain things. Those things sometimes may be hidden but as time goes they become profound and I at one time you have to make a decision that I think this is not right. Okay.

1:49:00 uh it's not healthy and therefore uh you need to seek help basically that's what I can say uh you share it with your confidence and say ABCD is happening uh because there are some mental illness the person will be very quiet you will not do anything the other one will be very aggressive and even beat you up uh where there is nothing. And um uh and therefore your health is also important and therefore you need to identify the danger signs u danger signs which which should ring a

1:49:46 bell and say I think uh enough is enough let me seek help either from the pastor uh I think this church is blessed. There are many healthy related people and also elders who can assist one to say please come and observe my friend. Uh maybe when the pastor comes the person will be very quiet and may not know but you need to repeatedly bring them so that they see for themselves and then seek for help. That's what I I would um I would um advise such a person who is in a

1:50:34 um in a you know there are some things that have also led to led to divorce something like this when the wife or the husband has seen that the person I married is not the current one. Uh there is um something that is going on and it's need there's need to get either spiritual help or medical help or health related help at least you'd have saved your own health because if you see things which are wrong and you just keep quiet it's affecting your mental health as well. uh and you are not healthy because health

1:51:20 is physical, mental and social well-being. If that is disrupted in any way then you need to seek help. I think those are a few things I can say. Thank you. Are you happy? Okay. Can we make yours Mr. Chamba the very last question? of progressive sorry talking to self is it always a sign of mental illness that's the first part and it's connected

1:52:06 to the bipolar um syndrome and schizophrenia and things like that and especially in terms of hallucination. How far do we go to get a differential diagnosis? I know there must be something similar, schizophrenia and bip bipolar syndrome and uh we mentioned hallucination in one and just being talkative in the other. Uh how far do we go in terms of hallucination? In connection with the two bipolar syndrome, what about insomnia? Because apparently a non-rested person ends up not having enough sleep and

1:52:53 ending up with the same. Obviously you mentioned malaria and c cerebro malaria cerebra malaria and uh um exhibition of never symptoms just that that combination talking to self of course there's hearing voices which is usually used but uh specifically talking to self and bipolar schizophrenia insomnia malaria was already mentioned. Thank you prof you can make a a brief comment. Yes, just to just briefly it's true the these what you have mentioned are some of the

1:53:39 manifestations of uh disease just like you have mentioned correctly mentioned um hallucinations these can be mostly they cannot also be uh people will be seeing things they tell you, I can see the car behind this wall, which is usually not normal, isn't it? Or I can see Michael Jackson is in this place, you know, things like that. Uh he's hallucinating. And this can be a sign of mental illness, but also a sign of medication or a sign of disease. Yeah. But this is why you have to rule

1:54:26 out these other things and then you are left with the mental. Um the same with uh insomnia can be an effect of mental just like the pastor said um stress or depression. You can have insomnia. Okay. or even

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