Digimon Tamers Season Retrospective | 315: “The Post-Tame Show”

0:00 on this episode of potages but I just hate people who assert that you can't digivolve your differences because that's a lie see Ash you shouldn't have expectations I know that's why I'm never listening to you guys ever again I respect that like that's a wellth thought out response and also you're wrong cuz anti lumon is the best what would we change about Tamers if we could change one thing 1 2 3 remove real I need a password you can use mine to get on the [Music]

0:45 internet welcome to Pages episode 315 the post tame show Digimon Tamers all of it General Impressions podcast stats Fantasy Draft winner Tamers Digimon changing Tamers Omega rdd and Tamers terminal judgement recorded November 6 2016 pagis is your critically nostalgic analytical tour through the Digimon anime I'm Jeff ruberg and I'm joined by my fellow dig Nomes Ashley McDonald I'm so sick infected with something I don't remember this song well enough for this Asher sofman yo Andrew sofman I'm all ried up and ready to go oh that was good that was good Andrew actually had one today wow busted it out um before we

1:32 dive into the episode we had a couple brief announcements I wanted to bring up first off we're going we have not finalized the design yet as of this recording but by the time you're listening to this we will have finalized the design for season 3 Pages t-shirts so there going to be two designs and they're going to be available for 3 weeks basically they're we're going to be using Teespring which is the site where you can order them and assuming we get above a certain minimum number of orders and they'll blueprinted I think the minimum is really low like three or four so hopefully we can sustain both designs we'll have a link on the website like on the sidebar so you can find that when you listen to this it should be great and awesome the other thing is we're running a end of season 3 listener survey with a bunch of different questions uh to figure out how we can improve the podcast for future Seasons so check that out if you want to provide feedback be helpful or if you want to

2:17 like uh influence the direction of the podcast and things we should improve or things that you do or don't like that kind of thing so look for that while I link to that in the show notes now without further Ado this week we're looking back on all of Digimon Tamers so here's a quick recap of the Season audience stand in Digimon Nado gets bored of his sex's bro friends and decides to scribble knots himself at Digimon slf friend/ petch child he soon meets boring Beyond his age Henry and badass Beyond her age ra and the three team up to take down terrorist threats and delegitimize shadowy government surveillance ouch wait wa some of some of us like Henry I no I I like Henry I just I just going to stab him in the heart in the

3:03 recap apparently anyway their favorite pous mascot is kidnapped so the kids do what any Millennial would do spend all day on the internet but they learned that the internet is actually a dangerous place when their tsundere bully pseudo friend murders their newest friend also turns out all the evil people were only evil because they thought racism was the best way to fight against the concept of file deletion but the concept to file deletion really likes depression so it hitches a ride with Jerry when they get back to Tokyo the concept of deleting files appears again taking the form of lava lamp ooze as a symbol for the deleted memories of the 70s the kids band together and with the power of friendship but really mostly the power of adults deceiving

3:48 their children they managed to banish the idea of deleting files in a final lost footage post credit scene it's revealed that all the adults who supported the kids were secretly funded by the hard drive industry and just wanted to stop files from being deleted so they could sell more hard [Music] drives okay so now on to some meta statistics about the podcast itself over the past season um this is the fun thing we did last season I think thought it would be cool to do again this year and add a couple different things so anyway first thing I want to look at was the comparing the runtime of our podcast with the runtime of the episodes of Digimon that we're covering and to see how that changed over time and how it

4:34 compared to the Past Seasons so um we're basically in these stats going to be talking about a bunch of different graphs that I made and we'll have a link in our show notes to an imager album of these graphs you can look at um so the first one is by Digimon episode and it's the ratio of our podcast length to the Digimon episodes and and there are two two really big spikes in the past Seasons which were for the episodes we covered individually episode 21 in adventure and episode 13 in 02 which makes a lot of sense because those we do entire episodes too um we we have a kind of similar Spike um is it because it's Rio no no this is for the um Beamon Showdown fight for the those three episodes um when we had Jacob on um but also I also split this out into there there four lines in here because we have season 1 season 2 and season 3 and then

5:21 another one that's season 3 plus feedback episodes so cuz I was like kind of Fe episodes kind of do count to the total of what we're talking about if we're like talking about those episodes still without the without the plus FEC thing like just looking at the length of the main episodes this past season doesn't look that much more longer per episode than season 1 and two but once you factor in the feedback episodes it's like huge huge difference like almost 2x except for it looks like the ones near the end of the season it looks like season 2 creeped up there and then kind of that makes sense though cuz like we started doing longer things at the like that's mhm yeah it makes sense and in and Tamers we started um trying started not caring I tried

6:08 to cuz it started off we we do like about four episodes at a time I was like this is we're getting nowhere doing this so um and then so the other breakdown is by podcast episode and the one thing this show is the other one I couldn't really get to show is the movies are included here too which I couldn't really include the other one because of the gap between um different length Seasons anyway but so so here are the movie episodes and movie episodes are like really really high ratios for all the seasons season two definitely has the biggest one that has the highest ratio in all these for the uh second movie episode apparently it's just like you can see the time Skyrocket for that one and yeah so then our Runway locomon episode is a similarly big jump there because it was it was like half as long as the battle Adventures but we talked about it for like twice as long I think so CU it's better yeah it's true so yeah

6:55 this I guess these graphs confirmed what I thought that like we probably went a lot longer than past Seasons like covering the same amount of material so oh yeah so next one is most mentioned characters so this is data from uh when I when I edit the episode I write down I try to it's not like 100% accurate but I try to write down every time we mention a character for significant amount of time so I can put it in the show notes and I didn't actually follow through this past season with actually making those detailed show notes but I did still while I was editing write all that information down I was able to use it for this um and so we can see who we mentioned most frequently and ra is number one by far shocking I'm surprised that K is on there where's K we mentioned K that many

7:42 times yeah but like eight times I guess wow is above like actual people I mean the problem is like I included um the feedback episodes which like were also talking about news about try and stuff so that's definitely skewing yeah say say has been robbed by this I'm surprised Riley is so low a where where is Riley is Riley even on here she's down under Kazu Kazu yeah that is shameful I only included up to like they're a ton below this threshold too it only goes up to with like six I think so yeah gaman is tied with SEO and Lon like that's really bizarre well I mean I think it's like

8:27 cuz like every time we like just name drop without saying about them I wouldn't write down but if we said saying significant about them then I would write it down makes sense yeah and some of them were like multiple times per episode and stuff so yeah and we did we did talk about Ki compared to our females here our [Music] Fe our wenches good yes our wenches so so now another breakdown of characters is characters who said Rd are rdd picks so what we actually like mentioned in episodes as our picks for the ridiculous dialog draft broken down by the characters that were saying those lines so number one by far for this is takato I mean he's a silly boy he is how is terryon not number one I mean terryon is

9:12 number two tied with Henry and Jerry but that's a random assortment of yeah although Jerry did have a lot of really funny lines yeah yeah like surprisingly so guess before she became a depression monster you mean yeah wait when did we pick shiboomi um I had one in one of the last episodes about the like he says moment ey to teron and then Ton's like that's where going yeah yeah next one is more on rdd this is rdd results so the results are the polls for the Rd which were I guess declaring winners so so PE the host who won the most was Ash you can't see me but I'm doing a dance and and then Ashley and me TI with

9:59 only one point less than Ash and then Andrew only had one total really I could have swar I had more than that but whatever um maybe things Chang maybe people kept cuz in the second season I kept like I would close the poll after a week or something and for season 3 they've just been open the whole time so maybe people went in and change them afterwards these are like the result the data as of a couple days ago whatever and you guys never laugh when I say mine but I'm glad that the the community has my back on this oh man I would like to thank my mother and our meming mother yeah our mom learned how to meme recently she sent me a picture of Sasuke laughing today our mom learned God she really oh

10:48 boy um so then the really weird flip side to this is so now another way I broke it down was rdd lead balloons so the basically the number of picks that got zero votes total which in season 2 was really rare because we got a lot more voters people more interested in 0er two um for Tamers since we had fewer voters there are more lead balloons but the really weird thing is how symmetrical this is so this is um Andrew had nine and then Asher had three and then me and Ashley again are tied in the middle what's a lead balloon it's a balloon filled with lead so that it doesn't actually rise that's how bad the joke is it flops that bad just goes

11:34 good good I only know I know there's like a phrase that like blah blah blah went over like a Le balloon yeah Andrew you actually have as many as the rest oh no never mind I can't do math oh yeah combined we have more than him yeah but almost not at least I'm bad for I'm good for something you can't decide if you're bad or good for it though I'm winning in something um so and then this is another thing I wanted to do which was to look at the episodes where rdd picks and you where rdd Pi came from so this first graph is rdd pick broken down by episode um you can see there like definitely a lot of spots where like no one picked any from certain episodes and then certain

12:19 episodes like we all were like yeah that one was the funny one it's pretty clustered but there's not too much data for this cuz we only had like you know like eight or nine picks per podcast so what I really wanted to do was Ashley and I when taking our notes would write down all of our rdd picks and we had them in like digital files so I was able to with both of our notes go through and get more stats from like all of our possible candidates which was just more data so this is a similar breakdown by episode with more with more candidates you can see even more here there are certain uh clusters so like episode 19 had a ton episode five as well and this sixth movie for some reason that that movie those those jokes weren't even that good it felt so good after Battle of Adventures yeah battle adventur was so

13:06 dry yeah which is ironic cuz it was on an island with water um but this this isn't the main reason I want to get the uh the candidates for rdd because that's not that that's not that interesting what I really wanted to get was to break down those and then look at the episodes and then correlate the number of picks and candidates to the writers of the to the dub writers and see if there was any relationship between dub writer and if we like chose them chose a lot of piics or not no so this first this first one is rdd picks by dub wrer um divided by the number of episodes they wrote so so it's like a ratio of how many we picked per their episodes so some of them like only wrote like Steve Bloom Alan Smith Dave windberg only wrote and I think Mary question why is there Steve Bloom

13:53 and a stevenh j Bloom yes oh they are the same person I not that okay interesting that's really what you what I mean I you're human right I didn't I I got these from the spreadsheet I didn't see they were the same okay so that that makes Jeff failed to capture I didn't I was wondering why Steve bloom only wrote one episode that's cuz that was under that one variant of the name well that's Fring I guess I need to fix that um well I guess if you combine them then I'm not sure how that affects oh crap really oh come on Steve Bloom why'd you do that anyway the clear winner was Seth Walter Walter Walter and then Steve Loom

14:40 second place and then Adele Lim and iide from Steve W from Seth Walther there's not really like a clear uh correlation indicated though but then anyway also looking at rdd candidates so the ones that Ashley and I didn't actually pick there's the episodes that Steve Bloom wrote Under the the name Steven J Bloom we had a ton apparently per episode and similarly with the episode written by Alan Smith so they like only wrote one episode each well Steve Bloom wrote others under anyway I don't know if that's actually he changes writing like if the writing credits actually Chang or if it's just the uh place where I got the data from changed it but that's a pain oh come on I'm frustated I spent hours agging this data and then I ended up missing something like that and then it's going to go into the final recording because of that anyway yeah so

15:27 this information wasn't as conclusive as I thought it would be uh I guess I you can see things like like Mary mcglen Mary Elizabeth mcglen who was the director of the entire series the episodes that she wrote we really didn't have any picks or candidates from um but I don't know how much I glean aside from that the okay so next chunk of things is basically statistics about listeners and engagement on the forums so first thing wanted to thank the people who listeners who commented the most on the Forum the past year year since we started season 3 and so Ember Moto and R is my favorite tied with the most number four in post thank you clap clap clap clap clap um and also chimal pin and hior were following behind that and we also have

16:12 statistics on the Forum has like a like system and so the people who got the most likes Oto had the most likes and then behind them R is my favorite and a Jamon were tied in second place and also have statistics on people who gave the most likes most generous with their likes and Chim was first place in that so thank you for doing that and for engaging on the Forum okay so the next thing so so this is we asked people what their favorite segment of the podcast was and I'm also curious what all of us think about our favorite segment of the podcast doing it uh the first place winners were the episode Recaps and rdd of course how do how do people feel about that I think that you should not vote for episode Recaps wow well I think compared to our

16:58 other sections actually that makes sense um my favorite is the one in second place actually which is outes that's my favorite section can we just have a podcast that is just our outtakes you think it's a digimon podcast but actually it's just us up over and over again I would listen to that I would listen to that no one picked recommendation articulation not a single person yeah Jeffrey maybe you should think about that I mean this was like you only got to pick one favorite thing also there's only 12 votes so yeah it's very small sample size I posted basically like in the morning yesterday morning thinking we're going to record that day like come on quick a couple couple hours come on please reply to this wow yeah so

17:46 desperate I I was what so what is everyone what are our favorite segments I mean I already said my favorite is out right I I guess Recaps are my favorite but I don't know I like topics yeah that's true topics I think is like the meat of how I Envision the [Music] show so now it's the now we're going to reveal the winner of the fantasy draft for the past season um so if haven't listened to feedback episodes actually recently point out to me that if you

18:32 don't listen to the feedback episodes it hasn't really been mentioned in the main episodes I'm like oh crap I really how did I not notice that um which cuz like we try to make Fe feedback episodes so that you don't have to necessarily listen to them and can just get the main episode but then I feel like it's a shame that you miss out on the fantasy draft but anyway the fantasy draft was a thing where before each episode you could pick a team of a human and a teamer sorry you pick a team of a human and Digimon and that would be your fantasy team and then we would pick our favorite characters in the episode and if we picked any from your team you get points and we' also pick the most we would vote on our most ridiculous and most desired teams that people submitted and then give extra points to them so we didn't do that in the feedback episodes for the movie so we're going to announce the points for that now so for 313 our

19:19 favorite character picks were ponaman Gilman Labron and cuman and the notable team notable fantasy teams that people submitted I thought were um Kai's Grandpa and Gilman Seiko and miston and aull and kalaman which we awarded various points for um I forget what how the we all like offline not on the podcast recorded our votes and then for 314 our favorite characters were ra ra Henry and Riley and the notable teams people submitted were Ra's dad and Laman ra and teron and yamaki and Gilman um I thought it was interesting looking back at this that like for the first movie we only picked Digimon as a character characters and then for the second movie we only picked humans H like it's kind of a weird pattern I think there was so little there was so little story to the

20:05 first movie that first movie is bad and Digimon are the only thing that redeem it and the second movie is better and is a drama involving much more the humans than the Digimon psychological Thriller mystery I was on the seat in my pants a whole time I was like who's possessing Ria exactly when I watch a movie I talk ghost yeah so I also wanted to thank people who submitted a reward congratulate people who submitted fantas draft picks every not every week because it wasn't weekly every episode and there were two people so it was Oto and a Jamon and so the final tally final Point final Point uh distribution in first place who we are going to send a what is the prize a

20:51 DVD box set of Tamers dub and the TA Chi and aguman figure first place winner had 24 points and it was Amber Moto yay woo um yeah so congratulations and we also in second place was em was Homer neurotic and in third place arimon I it was kind of an interesting contrast because Ember Modo was doing it since the beginning and like very consistently like gradually gaining points over time homerotic started I think after like halfway through and just got like tons and tons of points for a couple different rounds and ended up not being surpass but it was like an interesting it was like the the turis and the hair and I guess the t t ttis ttis how do you say it tortoise ttis taurise ttis oh God

21:40 Turtle yeah I'm mixing up turtle and tortoise that's what I'm doing I don't know what you're doing to be honest okay it's it's the story of the tur I did it again the turtle it's it's the tail of the tortoise in the hair and I guess the tortoise won in the end so I guess that's how how the story is supposed to go yes I just called How The Story Goes I just called her listener a taurise that's mean um so Emoto just send us your contact information and we can send why is that why why do you why is that mean do you have something against tortoises I guess so I just called them tses so that's a little offensive I think something that doesn't even exist turis t ttis no you didn't need to go there actually you didn't need to go there

22:29 I think I did though [Music] yeah that's about as much as we can legally use probably welcome to Digimon Family Feud it's not really a family anymore cuz we swapped out Andrew for Ashley but I still don't know what's going on it's kind of f Feud you lived together for 3 years yeah yeah yeah yeah we've seen far more of each other than anyone really wants to U okay so we we ran these pagis listener how do I call them P listener favorite poll thingies on social media

23:15 for the past couple weeks and we're going to eventually discuss our favorites for those and mention listener results and stuff but before we go into that I thought it was a good opportunity to play a mini round of Family Feud Style game thingy it's Loosely based on that thing they do at the end of family food Ashley what did you say it was called Fast Money Fast Money apparently um the thing where they at the end uh try to pick as many of the top results from The Listener survey not listeners they don't call the top results from the survey and we're going to do that and instead of being cooperative like if Family Feud it's going to be competitive so Ashley and Ash are going to compete against each other to pick the most popular results and we also since it's going to be competitive we're not going to um you can both pick the same thing

24:01 so it's not Advantage it's not whoever goes first doesn't have a huge Advantage I have no idea what's happening right now A sure how are we friends how are we friends huh you know I don't watch TV what's wrong with you okay so here's how it's basically going to work I'm going to set a timer for 30 seconds and then in those 30 seconds I'm going to run through a list of questions the questions will be like favorite teer favorite Digimon Etc and what you need to respond with is what you think is the most popular result from our listener survey not surve from our audience and so it'll both be a time limit of like you try and get as many in the 30 seconds I think we're going to keep going past 30 seconds just to um cuz they're probably like a minute and just to like um but we'll try and T out the points within 30 seconds anyway I got it um yeah and then Andrew is going to

24:47 write down the responses so that we can look up points TR yes you better U let's do Ashley first so Ash Ash can you hear anything off no okay all right bye bye so and we're going to keep going past 30 seconds but like they won't be scored only the first 30 seconds will be scored so Ashley you ready give me sure okay so in 3 2 1 go favorite Tamer R favorite Digimon partner G favorite dig Evolution b m favorite adult man damn it SEO favorite diva 10

25:37 seconds thank you Lon uh favorite daper agent 3 seconds I on this searer I don't know I don't even know what they are what did you say something you say this is Searcher I said Searcher oh you said Searcher okay so isn't one of them called Searcher yeah it it is it is okay okay so Andrew you got that down okay so now now we're going to keep going um but these won't be scored okay um okay favorite ship um Cado and Jerry favorite Arc Digital World favorite episode some these are just like impossible to the one uh someon fight one I don't

26:22 know uh best surprise best good surprise biggest surprise best good surprise so open-ended I don't know you forfeit it yeah say you can say pass I skip that one pass okay okay um biggest disappointment Rio what would you change about Tamers if you could change one thing real revealing your hand there actually um yeah I guess I I forgot like the the skipping mechanic would have been really helpful for skipping the Davis and and Reaper agent oh yeah I should have passed on D Reaper agent for sure um do you think it's fair if if we if I had said there was passing would you have thought to pass for those like should I tell Ash the passing is an option yes or should tell him the pass

27:09 is an option mhm okay good okay cool if he wi so now take your headphones off okay yo Asher okay so Ashley uh got a perfect score on everything so you have to that so I'm already doomed uh I don't know I haven't looked up the scores so okay so I'm going to put 30 seconds on the clock are you ready all right sure cool okay 3 2 1 favorite Tamer ra favorite partner Digimon partner uh gilmon favorite dig Evolution uh gallantmon favorite adult by the way you can skip if you want oh I can uh favorite adult Riley favorite diva oh no no no SEO SE go SEO favorite diva who cares skip yeah favorite daper

27:58 agent favorite what daper agent those have names Jerry that is that is one of them one of them is Jerry type okay um cool so we're going to keep going without scoring okay okay favorite ship uh tato Jerry I don't know favorite Arc see I you said that and I heard like Arc as in the arc like you know that Noah Cho that Noah's shom's Arc the D Arc choose a real one come on for real uh need to beat Ashley I need to beat Ashley well I've already lost cuz I skipped one uh I

28:44 don't not don't be so sure about that oh uh uh real arcs um that our listeners liked the four options are Wild Ones Tokyo Davis digital world or D Reaper d-reaper um favorite episode orochimon okay uh biggest pleasant surprise uh what bigest pleasant surprise um the parents mhm biggest disappointment the show what would you change about the series if you one thing um what would the listeners change

29:31 about the show oh Rio that's what I would change about the show okay cool would write him out of existence I'm back welcome back so how do we do um did a give any more than I did no I heard you got a perfect score I me that what oh there's no perfect score you say that I would have actually put some effort in if I thought I could win wait perfect like a perfect SW would mean that every listener vote on the same thing and actually picked that one thing uh oh I guess I still don't understand the rules of Feud um I don't understand the rules of Google spreadsheets cuz I don't understand why this is not working okay so Ashley picked ra which is 29 which is

30:18 30 people but pretend in F field they have a survey size of 100 so I'm scaling up to 100 so pretend there were 30 people okay all right um okay so 30 for ra plus 26 for Gilman plus 21 for Beamon these numbers are going down plus 30 for Seiko and tilon is 55 whoa and Searcher I don't think search is going to have anything shut your face um no there is oh you actually did over Searcher okay both sorry I got confused search search you get eight points so total you had 170 170 okay which is in f f that would be like like the goal is to get

31:04 200 with two people right yes so 17 be a really good score for actual F Fe sure um okay so then Asher had ra for 30 points Gilman for 26 these are the same for yeah um gallmon for 13 G I forgot about anaon as a dig Evolution yeah it actually wasn't popular as dig Evolution um as popular as a daa but oh oh I forgot she was a Dava too U and so and then I forgot about it in ton I just forgot about Davis I forgot season three for the most part wow skip he skipped that and then Jerry Cherry is worth 25 points okay so

31:52 Asher you had 124 in the end I I didn't think I would beat Ashley yeah first of all Ashley actually talks to our listeners uh I don't I don't think that's actually useful in determining [Music] that okay now diving into our actual thoughts about season 3 as a whole I wanted to talk about General Impressions and I thought a good way to get us thinking about General Impressions were to our biggest surprise about the season we're watching it and our biggest disappointment biggest pleasant surprise the Assumption um so Ashley do you want to start off sure Pleasant how much I did actually

32:39 like ra disappointment how much the show really really doesn't like girls MH mhm yep uh also it's just generally not as well put together as I thought and I wrote down my one unanswered question which I guess it's like y yamaki why you know explore yamaki why why yamaki hate Digimon why why he suddenly why he suddenly good person make no sense yeah boo boo also Rio we all knew we weren't going to like Rio going in no matter how long ago we liked Rio them them was my thoughts yeah um Ash so

33:25 do you agree with those so surprises and disappointments I mean I agree that they I I agree with Ashley that those were a surprise well well I was not surprised that I liked ra mine um well my biggest disappointment was actually you guys were so excited about this series and I or this season I was like okay maybe it's better than I remember and no it really wasn't was no that was my biggest disappointment my biggest surprise you shouldn't have expectations yeah I know that's why I'm never listening to you guys ever again um cool yeah so um see I was right all along um and then my biggest surprise

34:13 was how much I appreciated the parents this time around cuz I don't remember having strong feelings about them one way or the other back when I watched it well you barely watched it yeah that also happened but they definitely their involvement made made uh more of an impression on me this time maybe because I'm older did you know we're as old as the parents are in the show that doesn't make any sense because these kids are at least 10 or 12 it's not true but I think we are closer we could we are closer to their age than we are to the kids ages I think we actually could they're probably close to the ages of like the hypnos crew they're probably in like their 30s but I mean like if didn't we get the impression that Ra's mom had her when she was 16ish did I make that up because of Gilmore Girls I may have made it up

34:58 because of Gilmore Girls 16ish is very young I think you made that up because of Gilmore Girls although she does look very young I also feel takato's parents also feel fairly young um but johu seems pretty old he like 23 not young 23 yeah sure yeah which means he had Henry when he was 12 but yeah if someone had a kid when they were 16 they would be our age now when the kids were 10 so yeah that's kind of a thought uhhuh anyway Andrew what what are your biggest surprise and disappointment I am surprised at how much I hate the structure of the digital world cuz it felt it was a giant plot device I thought it was supposed to be pleasant surprise yeah wait wait yeah

35:44 it's supposed to be a good surprise and a disappointment not not a surprise it is a disappointment I am surprised at how great most of the adults are oh high five when they're not deceiving each other and the children okay so never okay yes um my I guess my my biggest surprise is how kind of also like in addition to just watching but like our experience about talking about it and engaging with listeners and stuff how kind of very tight the core team of the three main teamers and Digimon are in terms of favorites you know it's not like there's a standout like we I'm used to a bigger um main team of seven or eight or whatever and there being a

36:31 couple really big favorites among that but having just like I I didn't really realize how because looking back I I was like oh ra is the best but I didn't realize that like for many people say ra is the best there's also like tons of people say takato is the best or let say Rio not Rio why I say Rio I say Rio Henry no um I guess Henry would be the one part of that those two triangles it is actually like but definitely like Gilman renamon and terryon is like very heated uh for who people like the best and so I kind of forgot about like it just feels like a much more tight season that makes any sense in that regard in terms of like the core people being like I don't know it's hard to really arate that thought and like but but mainly what I'm saying also saying is that a big dis a lot of my impressions are

37:16 colored by generally being disappointed by putting so much hype into the season and then being like yeah it wasn't that worth the hype which I say in terms of like I put a ton of hype into it I'm like yeah it was a pretty season but not like oh my God everything needs to be analyzed every corner needs to be overturned cuz there'll be so much depth be so much like oh my God like to like dig through kanaka's notes to understand with the real intent here the real meaning the real metaphors and it's like no it's like a pretty good Digimon season um but I mean also disappointments or the Dava so much so much disappointment in the deavas just like so much and also Rio and Kazu in general but also their General dude bro sexism very disappointing okay so let's talk about Tamers let's

38:03 first what were all of our favorite Tamers Ashley who's your favorite Tamer ra no surprise Asher ra Andrew you can say Riley I can say Riley if I damn want to for she has to deal with uh yamaki oh I like it I like it burns you're saying that she is is yaki's Tamer yeah I agree with that actually but if you want a real Tamer I'll say ra M yeah I would also say ra so oh Jeffrey I didn't trust you to actually say that what do you think I would say peer pressure Tado no tato I definitely we'll get to that but like I God tato I like the idea

38:49 of Kent but in practice it's like okay Jerry yeah ker actually seem like a something you would say no I mean I think there's much more contention in when we get to digon but yeah iess I guess doesn't surprise me we all went to ra I I think there are also of other Tamers that are things to like about them but ra ra stands above them literally she like steps on them probably I mean Alice Alice is a pretty hard oh yeah you should have picked Alice yeah totally it was she she was right there she I guess we don't actually know she's a she has a digimon with her but we don't know if she has like a Digivice or anything yeah I don't think she counts I mean she technically kind of does by I and Mak didn't get a Digivice and we considered

39:35 them Tamers forever cuz Mom was all like oh these people are my Tamers and it's like what they didn't have a Digivice until just now how did you what I don't understand I guess that's true so uh according to listeners Ra was number one not unsurprisingly then takado then Henry and Jerry too many votes for Rio yeah Rio had a total of three votes that's not allowed those there three people our TR people nobody can vote for real what three why is Steve on the list um so there was one person on Reddit who voted for Steve Bloom for both for favorite Tamer Digimon and adult and I'm like okay but they don't actually so for like for the adult and Digimon I replace that with the with kilan and Yaki but I'm like Steve doesn't Voice a Tamer so

40:21 I'll just leave this in I guess interesting odd yes I think I think they were trying to be odd um and this is some situation as last year where it's like the Facebook Twitter and Tumblr were posted to our like people who follow Pages which we assume are like maybe they don't listen to every episode but we assume they're you know know of the podcast are listeners the Reddit votes much less clearly listeners cuz that's posted on Reddit publicly probably a lot of comments most comments probably come for people haven't listened to podcast so if you want to think of it as just a listener survey then you can kind of like mentally remove that light blue color which is the furthest right in all these poles so you can kind of see like for most these it kind of retains the same shape if you think of if you remove the light blue Reddit color so okay so now let's talk about each Tamer takato takato like I

41:07 said I like the idea of him his concept his you know whole He represents a digimon fan instead of the hot-headed extroverted protagonist personalities we've seen before and we'll continue to see after this but I don't think there's that much more to him than that in the end anyone disagree no I I think there is more to him than that um he is very kind and brave in a way that Ty and uh Davis aren't what is that way I'm thinking about it it's Ty and Davis are very their courage is very Brash right like we've talked about this but tatoos

41:52 is more he's not afraid to be very open with his feelings like we don't really well I mean okay Davis is open about his feelings but his feelings are very shallow um and Ty often just like runs away from his feelings but like we see tato be a really good like be really good about trying to communicate with Jerry like he faces her pain in a way that we don't really see other um protagonists do I I guess my my my frustration with that is I've seen a lot of people say that tato has a really interesting Arc in that and how he comes to like help Jerry but also I'm just

42:38 like I don't really see that as much being much of an arc it feels like he I don't really think it's an arc I think that's just how he is he gradually opens more and I don't think that's an arc for him so much as an arc of the story revealing that side of him yeah does that make sense yeah I think I think there's a little bit of like him initially as soon as soon as Jerry starts to show warning signs he's not as open as he maybe could be or like he's not as effective at helping her and especially like in the okay but he's 10 right no no but but I'm saying like I guess you could say there's an arc in that like he then later on is better at that but like I still think that's a kind of flimsy it's not like his like character is defined by that or anything like that it's not like he you I don't know I think I think there is kind of this Arc to Jerry right like not being involved not being interested in Digimon

43:24 and like then kind of becoming interested in it and kind of I think because of takato to some degree and I feel like there could be more to explore about like his guilt in that regard that like she becomes so invested in this and then like ties it so closely to her identity and then loses herself and completely succumb to depression it's like partially his fault that's not really explored that like I don't know it seems like he's just there to help her because he's the nice person who's there to help people you know I disagree with that line of fault of fault in general yes I I'm not saying I'm not saying it's true I'm just saying like it seems like when people talk about like takato helping Jerry I feel like takato helps Jerry because Jerry needs help and tato is nearby and uh I don't agree I actually don't agree either because he

44:11 generally genuinely likes her no that's not what I'm not saying like oh he doesn't like her what I what I mean is like that it's not like he genuinely cares for her no I know I know I'm also not saying that like I didn't mean it like quite as literally as what I meant like I didn't mean it quite as literally as what I said like oh she's just nearby so he just care he just cares for her I I do agree that he genuinely cares about her and likes her and wants to her to be happy but it's not like I guess I'm just saying there's no Arc to it and that's that's what we've said several times at this point so it's fine honestly what what you're saying is it seems more like he would do this for any one of his friends which he does like he does technically does the same thing for RA in the movie uh he does it in uh that's

44:56 it that's pretty much it but I'm sure he would do it for everyone else which I guess yeah I guess I was saying as like a fault but that's part of his character and that's a legitimate thing and it's different than most other Digimon protagonists are represented that's an interesting side well definitely out of the one maybe out of the ones we've covered so far yeah cuz I mean when you kind of describe it like one-dimensionally like that taii would be very similar to tato that's true let's move on to ra ra why do we all love ra so much why do we all choose her as a favorite character cuz she's awesome she's the only one who stood out at all like if you think that Tak doesn't

45:42 have an arc it's like ra clearly they tried very very hard again lots of arcs yeah yeah like ra um is I mean she's actually cool cool like she's the coolest of all the characters in the entire show and also she's the most fun to watch like yeah which is something I think a lot of the other characters lack fun they have like interesting sides it's like oh that's kind of neat but yeah I mean we kind of disagree with where her Arc went though and kind of how it tried to especially the way it was sure the execution but at least it was there it tried the

46:28 hardest yeah it had the most potential that was squandered squandered on Rio I will always blame it on Rio so Henry I think has does he have an arc I don't know I guess there's not really much of an arc there there's like a mini Arc to his overprotecting of suie and then kind of I guess learn to become better with about that but his Arc is I don't want to fight yeah there's that too I forgot a monologue about why oh no no no actually there's not a monologue about why there's a reveal at the end of the season about why and then they like which in retrospect makes things a lot make a lot more sense and I guess there is a monologue early on but there's no like actual doesn't actually reveal the inciting incident yeah Ash Ash one thing

47:14 you said in our so I listen back to episode 300 to see other interesting things that we had mentioned that were worth bringing up now um but one thing you mentioned was that you were like looking forward to Henry and you thought that there might be more interesting stuff to him this time around and I agree cuz I was like oh yeah it seems like you're the way you like were kind of fascinated with Cody in 02 how do you feel about that now do you feel like he was interesting um I feel like there is more to him than uh than the surface presents but also just like he did not have the screen time uh the screen time revealing those inner layers that Cody did actually like he had a lot of screen time but like it never really revealed

48:01 who he was so like this this was a leading question I feel Jeff but um yes but not to the extent I got with Cody he is not as interesting as I wanted him to be I mean I think I find it really frustrating that that Arc with the with overprotecting of his sister and like is is a lot of that is like left completely un addressed by The Narrative how when the stuff is going down like his like kind of like Sheltering suie like he loses track of teron then ter sa by someone else and stuff and it's not like he's never like reprimanded for that in any way and then I feel like the episode where he then I guess becomes okay with Susie joining the action was like weird and like this doesn't feel right this doesn't like the

48:47 logic was off the charts kind of and so there a lot of like execution issues with it too which I mean there were plenty of execution issues with Cody too but it's weird to see how many parallel things that Henry and Cody have like a weird Sensei just like Cody's grandma grandpa or whatever just like spouting nonsense yeah about them they are very simal nonsense H I think a lot of viewers really didn't like Cody and way people don't I think most people are just bored by Henry whereas they disliked Cody actively yeah that's true I think that is true so maybe they made like a Tamer version of Cody when they were playing the season yeah maybe that's what's going on here I

49:34 don't know I don't know why that would be I mean Cody it was weird like Cody's uh age was I think one of the we made sense of it and it made sense why his being young like made him so more um strict about morals and stuff but like yeah I think it made it more annoying as a viewer kind of yeah that's true Cody can be I think people often don't like characters getting emotional and Cody had some pretty emotional moments in season 2 so maybe that's what it was and people don't like babies he's a baby and people don't like babies you are correct does anybody like Susie that's true but people like TK don't they it's weird that people like TK but I don't understand this hate of Cody now you're making me question everything yeah but

50:20 you you didn't like Cody going in did you I don't remember like actively hating him I don't think people like TK in season 1 really uh I mean Jeff and I at least have one friend who is like TK is the worst but she is also she is also a person who I would say often has contradictory opinions so don't know how much to like take stuck charella I didn't know she thought that way no yeah when we were home not like this last Christmas the Christmas before huh I was like TK is my favorite and she's like no TK sucks she's like huh yeah Susie like I don't have any strong feelings about Susie I want to like her but I also find her deeply deeply

51:06 obnoxious do you mean that in like her actions or in like the portrayal of being so childish both I can't even remember if it's dup thing or the both I have a feeling it's actually both because some of the things she does like on screen are just obnoxious yeah I think I think the like fantz is probably exaggerated in the dub is my guess yeah but it's still there right yeah yeah and like it's also kind of weird how like she eventually just finds a partner who accepts all of her um like is just the most tame it's a funny word but anyway the most tame Digimon who was just like yeah whatever I'll let you do whatever to me I still assert that she that lman like Susie as antan and is like PR me

51:52 alone as lman m but it's like oh no I this is my fate now I must accept it so I was initially going in terms of order of them becoming Tamers um but now we went to Susie had to skip back to our favorite character [Music] Rio Rio Rio rhymes with no Rio means Rio wait no no means Rio no I was think it's going be a good shirt like no me just stop means real stop you're taking it too far I had a very basic joke Rio does suck I mean there lots of different reasons he sucks um he's just

52:38 poorly written like I actually feel bad for yeah he's poorly written he's poorly handled from people from people who love Rio from the games they find him frustrating in Tamers people who don't care and frustrating for existing in Tamers like from all different sides it's in yep it's it's one of the weirdest things looking back as on looking back on as an adult because I think it's one of the biggest contrasts in Digimon between adulthood and child viewing mhm and I don't really know why that is I think there something there's something there something kid you just in as kids you just want to you want to be cool like you want to that image of cool it's like it's the same way kids like the White Ranger or the Gold Ranger and Power Rangers like they're usually the most boring crap character in a show

53:26 and are just there to be plot devices but ooh the shiny you know H yeah like R comes in he's like I'm the best he do nothing he looks cool like I think his design is cool his Digimon is cool like yeah and also he's a garbage character yeah like he has all the elements of cool that are just like what are you doing here though like who invited you I don't know I guess I'm just curious to find out like what it is that made Rio seem so cool as a kid and I'm kind of curious like why that isn't employed more like um cynically just like why don't marketers just like hone in on that and just focus on that when they're making children's properties but I wonder I wonder if and I just they do I

54:13 mean I feel like as a kid I'm also more willing to be like I don't care that he's not integrated in the story like I'm more willing to use my own imagination and crap to like fill in stuff whereas now I'm like this is just not a good story like like what I find that interesting coming from a fanfic writer but I don't write that like I wrote more fanfiction as a child which is I guess that's true it's like my argument is I would be more willing to write fan fiction then than I am now but I feel like as an adult we have like so many more choices of media that we have to be like Discerning you know like we have to be like is this story good enough to be worth my attention when there's like five other things that could be good enough to write fan section about instead you know what I mean so like where as a kid it's like well this is the coolest thing I've Seen On TV like you're not really getting all

54:59 these different options so you're like okay well I'll make this cooler in my own head and I'll devote time to write about it I certainly feel like the way that we consume media now being so different from how we consumed it then is also an element like if you missed an episode of Digimon like you're not just going to stop watching Digimon but there's also no Avenue for you to easily like go and catch up with that one episode so you just have to like accept that you would miss episodes of your favorite media if you didn't tape it and then just like keep watching and I guess also like those holes in the narrative you may have like blamed on missing an episode or two and you may have like had a more optimistic view because of that yeah yeah so so all this say we forgive Rio for sins and it's totally fine right uh no I'm kidding Rio yeah I so yeah I

55:48 guess that's a interesting point because I've always thought of it as like as a kid Rio is great as an adult Rio is not great but I think it might just be more like you know watching it in the media landscape we had as kids Rio was great watching in the media landscape we have now he's not great like I'm curious how kids watching Tamers now I'm pretty sure it's just Nostalgia at this point I think it's also just an element of adults are different than children brains I I think there's that that too but I am curious how children watching it now on Netflix if they're less forgiving of Rio than we were I don't think so I think they'll be about the same let's let's uh let's make let's make some babies and test it um well no do how long does it take it I could ask

56:34 my second graders guys how long does it take yeah does find us children so okay if we want them to be in sixth grade how long like a couple minutes does it take to make a sixth grader yeah yeah sure like six minutes right yeah six yeah yeah yeah yeah Okay one minute for each grade moving on to the next sexist du bro Kazu we have to I don't I don't think there's much to say about Kazu I mean he was frustratingly like I I I feel like saying sexist is like in a lot of circle some circles has like a lot more weight and people are like oh my God that's you're calling him sex that's a really sexist that's a really big character assassination kind of accusation but when I'm he sexist when when I call Kazu sexist what I mostly mean is like he's sexist in the way that like he's like a default dude bro making

57:20 dude bro jokes like he's not like misogynous he's not like harassing women on the street he's not like being super overtly sexist uh I mean yeah he's 10 he's 10 he's 10 okay but like what I mean is like's going to disagree what I mean is just like he's like doing the kind of playground sexism that is totally standard and it's so frustrating that that is standard yeah sure so I feel like some people push back and be like how can you blame him like this is just what's normal for this is just boys being boys and it's like no but boys being boys is so frustrating like yeah like that not how it has to be right it's not how it has to be and we can hold people to higher standards if we don't just accept it as like oh just boys which I think I think that's part of the like frustration we had with

58:06 criticism um when we were complain about sexism in early episodes of this podcast about Tamers and people be like well they're just representing society as it is and it's like but Society can be better if we have better role models yeah I mean I always disagree with like it's human nature and I'm like no there's no humans have evolved from like these things humans have the ability to keep evolving if you're just like well screw that I think even people have the ability to dig evolve yeah so that's yes they can dig evolve their differences exactly I think we solved it thank you we solved it but I just hate people who assert that you can't digivolve your differences because that's a lie yeah it reminds me a lot of the like full of lies reminds me a lot of the

58:51 like oh what is it the phrase um when people when when someone's complaining about some situation not being fair and they're like this isn't fair and then some I feel like it usually comes up in whatever there's someone who's like life isn't fair and they use that as an excuse to do something unfair and it's like no it's not like you're making it unfair it's like it's just it's always bothered me I mean it's the same argument with like trigger warnings it's like well you can't use trigger warnings because you never know when you'll be triggered in life like life sucks and it's like yes the point is that in situations where you could control for that isn't that nice that like you try hard to control for the things that you can control I don't understand yeah I think there's there's more depth of that argument possibly in

59:37 that like they might be arguing that if you're never exposed to it then it'll make it worse when you are and so being passively exposed all like there are I don't I don't buy them but like I think there are somewhat valid counterarguments about exposure therapy but usually those are just like exposure therapy is a thing and therefore trigger warnings are stupid it's like that's dumb no it's not just cuz exposure therapy is a thing that works for some people doesn't mean you should use it all the time for everything anyway you should definitely not force it upon people yeah like I'm going to I've heard exposure therapy is a thing therefore I'm going to make you do it yeah I guess we should also include Kenta in the dub bro sexist category I was kind of surprised I didn't look back on him like he seems much like kazu's design is already kind of like extroverted what kind of expect sexism from him kind of

1:00:23 Kenta seems like more w this guy looks sexist guess now you're getting now now you're broaching some weird okay maybe not just but like just their personality one is clearly extroverted more so than the other I thought like Kenta seems more like the archetypal nerd and I'm was surprised to see him at various times exhibit just as much dude sexism maybe that's your bias but like nerds are all about dude bro sexism all the time sometimes yeah sorry Jeff no I still I don't like I would classify myself as the Kenta in most situations with my friends as a younger person where it's like my friends were

1:01:09 really cool but also could be super douche taty and so because of group think and I wanted to be cool like I would be like yeah I'm going to just like copy that person but still obviously be a dweeb like yeah I can kind of like archetype do we have anything to say about aaku I more just wish that they had more time to see how they their relationship with Iman developed cuz that seems like such a would be weird it would be weird because when we do finally meet them they are seen as like perfect children that's offputting yeah they basically like they regret one thing they go from being terrible children to being perfect children it's like that's not how especially kids work yeah I mean it really plays into like

1:01:54 the kids are so innocent narrative and I'm kind of like no I mean if you think of like imman his kind of like messed up relationship with his Tamers initially and being kind of abandoned it more so reminds me of like abusive relationships where like the abuser is like I've totally changed I'm so much better look I'm so much better now and like then they fall back into so hard to read that narrative on top of them being like 5 years old though no I know I know I know I I think I think I'm stretching with that but like I do think there's something like I think the more practical assum like more likely is that they're acting all nice because they regret something and want his affection and that once they have his affection again they'll go back to being as they were before because they're five they're

1:02:39 not going to have as much like emotional depth to have learned from their mistakes I don't think I guess I mean it's so complicated because like iton also see I don't it's just like I mean it's easy to read the abuser narrative on top of it it's just really a puding with children like I feel like they tried to force that onto it it's just like it doesn't make sense like why something I try to force that on there I think maybe I forced it into the reading of the text but but it's just like we're not iton also seems to be like I wish I wanted their affections and stuff but I'm like but why you know more about humans having rampaged around and see the other Tamers like what why would you want those humans specifically yeah that is that's

1:03:25 specially was particularly left out of the narrative it's just kind of it's kind of like they set him up as like you are the the tame the Digimon to these Tamers without any actual formal relationship but it's like clearly those the ones he cares about and why we don't know like in that I don't know in that HEB space of Impmon it seems like it would make more sense to me if because he was jealous of how the main Tamers in their relationships that he would like try to get in with one of their friend groups like if he wanted Kazu or something to be his Tamer or that he would like seek out the strongest person or something yeah I don't know his motivations just don't make sense to me yeah I could see that there's a lot of stuff I love about inom but I could see that's totally like a that's just set up as like a thing you're probably not

1:04:10 supposed to think too much about cuz it's just a defining trait that's like dig into it no it doesn't really nothing really holding that thread together um also likewise Alice is kind of maybe possibly technically a Tamer there's not much to her aside from it sure is kind of weird and kind of creepy kanaka's fascination with both like this goth Lolly thing but also like the name Alice like that's just like why why is the name Alice mean so much to you like I guess it's from Alice and Wonderland but Kaka sure is a weird man I I forgot we mentioned on the podcast before but Alice shows up like as a name in many of his works and his like website domain includes Alice and the URL and probably other things yeah yeah H so last two the points on Tamers and

1:04:57 humans in general um favorite adults Ra's grandmother yeah is that even a question Andrew Riley oh yeah did you know did you think I don't I was like oh we're all we're obviously all going to say Seiko but I forgot about Riley yeah you're totally yeah that makes so much sense um one of the things I found listening back to episode 300 was Andrew being like we were choosing who we thought would be our favorite characters like who they were before we watched the season and Andrew was like this is going to come out of left field but my favorite characters are the hypnos girls and we were like what and he's he stayed consistent good consistency see looking at the results from the poll actually Seiko is tied with yamaki no but that's mostly from Reddit yaki's most of yaki's

1:05:43 points are from Reddit and I kind of like that kind of makes sense kind of seems like Yaki would be a Reddit person are you judging Reddit I'm always judging Reddit 100% I think I'm more judging Yaki also oh well I'm always judging Reddit I look down on you Reddit I don't care if you know it to be fair I think the Digimon subreddit is a lot more a lot better in a lot of regards than most of Reddit as a whole we could only hope that's not a high bar what about ships there's actually not that many ra X Jerry ra and Jerry's a good [Laughter] ship renamon xri m I the the only thing only thing I had in mind for that was Jerry and kado cuz

1:06:29 that's really I think the only thing that's there in the narrative the only like actual ship yeah you're forgetting the other Cannon ship but I'm not going to mention it if you wiped it from your mind somehow like good on you I'm not saying anything you know Yaki no oh yeah that's a good ship too that is the best ship okay Jeff Jeff knows are we talking about we we don't have to talk about it we're not talking every everyone calm down I'm just I'm just going to play some some calming [Music] music okay well Ash well who are your favorite characters um well terryon obviously no I remember I liked ra a lot

1:07:17 or rukie or whatever her name is um and I think I think I liked Rio because of

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