He Cracked the Secret Money Code

0:00 I started working in e-commerce and about two three years in had an opportunity started my own company with my partner grew it really quick within a year and a half we were doing really well really successful but for the first time in my life I was like pressed with this identity of like being in a better situation than I would say most of the people that I was friends with and I wasn't like that ever in my life I grew up not in like a higher income bracket family so for the first time I was like faced with this identity and I I didn't even know how it made me feel just made me feel different. For some reason, also I think that the natural move I personally did this and I see it in a lot of my friends is just to like totally brush this under the rug for as long as possible like never open your bank account apps, never open your credit card and just hope that

0:45 everything works. And it felt good to finally like get past that. I felt in control for the first time. >> Sometimes success comes too soon. You get everything you thought you wanted, the money, the business, the freedom, and yet something inside you starts to eat at you. My guest today is just 24 years old. He built a thriving company and has made more money than he ever imagined he would at this age. But he found out the hard way that wealth without intention quickly leads to a life that may be rich in things, but it's poor in meaning. So, I want to commend Dave Katz for saying yes to joining us on Kosher Money. He came to the studio at a moment's notice, and what you're about to hear is raw. It's honest, and I think you're going to find

1:31 it valuable. Both you and your children are going to gain a lot from his reflections and his lessons. I know I have. Enjoy. Dave, you're 24 years old. We had a conversation a few minutes ago. I said, "Hop into the studio, get on a mic and let's have a conversation." What are you seeing as a 24 year old? Walk us through your story. >> Yeah, my story is I grew up in Far Froakway and I was always like very entrepreneurial, like loved working, loved making money, grew up in the from community. Who doesn't? I started working in e-commerce and about 2 three years in had an opportunity uh started my own company with my partner. We grew it really quick. within a year and a half we were you know doing really well really successful. It happened like what feels like or felt like very quickly.

2:18 And for the first time in my life, I mean I was making a salary before and it was a pretty good salary, but for the first time in my life, I was like pressed with this identity of being in a better situation than I would say most of my friend group, most of the people that I was friends with. And I wasn't like that ever in my life. Like I grew up not in like a higher income bracket family. Um, so for the first time I was like faced with this identity and I didn't know I I didn't even know how it made me feel. It just made me feel different, I guess. And that's when I kind of like did a lot of identity work. Um, I don't even know what that means, but did a lot of identity work and also realized that as I made more money, there was never like thought that went into it. It was just coming and going. And as I made more money, started

3:04 spending more, but there was never like I I was kind of like faced with, okay, what does this mean? How how am I going to build something? Am I saving money? You know, you hear all this talk about saving money and retirement accounts and it's and at some point they're just like I'm making money, my expenses are rising, I'm having a good time, but like what what am I doing? What's the point? You know, all that. and in speaking to people and in and through the process, I guess I kind of realized the importance of creating a budget um creating a plan, creating structure, being intentional about money and how important it is to to be intentional. I think as you said before, for some reason, money is a topic that doesn't get talked about or

3:50 at least spending money is a topic that doesn't get talked about um spec I think in the world, but specifically for sure in the firm community. Um, there's a lot of talk about making money and I think we're we're pretty good at that as as a community. Um, as Jews, there's a lot of opportunities. I think especially people, my friends, we're making a lot more money than people our age have ever made. There's just a lot of opportunity where we grow up in a culture where it's somewhat easy to or easier than nothing's easy, but easier than I would say other people have it. But when it comes to spending money, there's no discussions, there's no talk, there's no planning. It's just a lot of like quick spontaneous decisions. And I think it's important for for people to have that conversation more than they're having. Someone shared with me that back in the

4:36 day if you wanted to make money, you created a railroad company, right? Took years, sometimes decades before you turned a profit. And nowadays, you can have a company by the time you go to sleep. You wake up, open an LLC. >> Yeah. >> Start generating revenue by lunch and you're turning a profit by dinner. And that can send a shock to the system. I imagine guys, your friends are making money so quickly. And there's this shock factor of, >> yeah, okay, I was in school and now all of a sudden I'm in work, but the speed in which I'm making it is throwing me for a loop, right? I'm not prepared. I'm

5:23 not budgeting. I'm not being intentional. I'm not even thinking about that I don't have a budget, right? Everything, you know, it's just cyclical. um you know I wake up, go to work, I eat, go to sleep, I learn chabas, you know, and now all of a sudden you're 24 years old and you're finding that yes, I have the money, but when you what you call identity searching, it's almost like soularching. What what am I even doing? Right. Right. >> So what did you do to start becoming more intentional? Well, I I guess where I came from also, and kind of probably said this before, but I definitely started working earlier than most people. I was I started working when I was 19. Um, when I started my own company, I was only 23. And I kind of started seeing with my friends when they started working, they

6:08 were going through like the same loop as I was where it's like, all right, we got our first salary, we're making money, you're never making money, and all of a sudden like you're getting right now like starting salary can easily be 60 $70,000 for someone coming out of yeshiva, which if you're single living at home, that's and you have no bills, like you can do a lot with that. Um, and I kind of started seeing this trend, I guess, where everyone, and I went through it also, where, you know, you make that money, you kind of start living this lifestyle, and then it's like you realize that it's actually not that much money. You can spend that pretty quickly. And it's like, okay, well, pull back. And also, like a lot of my friends, I'm single, but a lot of my friends are getting married, and it's happening in their marriages where it's like they start making money, they're getting support. Maybe at some point 6

6:55 months later, it's like, well, okay, maybe we don't have as much money as we have. It's just not a lot of like thought and and consideration goes into like sitting down and like, okay, how much are we making? How much do these things cost? It's just very quick. And in terms of like I I don't know what initially sparked it. Um I do remember I was a early early podcast listener of Kosher Money. Um, and I do remember one of the episodes, one of the early episodes was uh someone by the name of Simmyi who good very close to right now. Um, and she was one of the first people I had a a conversation with. She's a Jewish money therapist I guess is what what people call her. But I think mo most important is I just started talking about it like people like you when I started the kdish and and I think not

7:43 being afraid to ask people to talk to people even my friends. I'm very comfortable going to my friends and like just having these these conversations about them. I think it's not natural for some reason. I'm not sure why I actually asked you. I I wonder um like something about talking about specifically spending money or even money or finances doesn't feel good, doesn't feel natural, but I think it's important. I think it's I I don't have the answers. I don't know. Um and I'm not perfect. Still have a lot of bad spending habits and anxieties about money. But I do think that talking about it and not being afraid about it and recognizing that everyone's going through the same process and no matter where they came from, it might be a little different, but everyone, you know, money is one of those things. I forgot the book, but I I

8:28 heard on I was listening to an audio book and I heard like just money is one of those things that everyone has to deal with. There was three things. It's like health, money, and there was one other thing which I can't remember. It's just unavoidable. no matter what your background is, no matter how much of it you have and how little of it you have, it's life. Um, so I think it's it's and for some reason people are scared to talk about it. So I think really getting past that and having those conversations um is important. >> A quick break from the episode. I want to tell you something wild. Did you know you can save money on Kosha groceries without clipping coupons, searching for codes, or remembering which store had that sale this week? Honey, get the circular. Well, there's a new app. It's called Bonus. Pretty simple, right? Bonus. And it's literally made for the

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10:45 it, but that's the URL. It's bonus time.com and start saving the kosher way. And hey, if you want or someone you know sells products to kosher grocery stores. Again, I'm going to remind you, reach out to Bonus, get your brand involved, and get your products sold. Before we continue the episode, I want to tell you a story. About five years ago, my wife and I met with someone to take care of a will, right? That's an important document that all grown-ups should have, but we often forget to prioritize it. Everything was fine. We did what we needed to do, but later I found out it wasn't done according to. It wasn't done according to Jewish law. And that's a problem. The person I did it with was great, but she wasn't Jewish. So, I did not have Jewish law baked into my will and my other

11:31 important documents, which I'll talk about. So, I called up the fine folks at a recommended law firm. The name Newberger Quinn Gilen Ruben and Gibber. I can't say that three times fast. Don't worry, I don't have to. But it was an actually great experience. Do you remember we actually had the great Alan Gibber on the podcast? We spoke about estate planning. It was one of our earlier episodes. Super super important topic. So, why did I call them? Because I realized they get it. They're not just another big law firm, even though they've been at this for over 50 years. And they happen to be, who's counting, an internationally recognized full-ervice law firm that handles estates, trusts, real estate, business law, all the good stuff. But what really stood out to me was their halic estate planning expertise. Let me say that again. Halik estate planning expertise.

12:17 They understand the Jewish side of things, how to make sure your will and your finances are structured properly, both legally and halically. Alan Gibber leads that department. He was the man who created this field essentially. He's written the book, the literal book, and working alongside him are great people, including Schlommo Caner. He's helping families just like yours create clear, halic, and practical plans for the future. What you'll like about them is they're calm, professional, and they listen to you. That's important, right? They're going to help you get organized so your loved ones aren't left, god forbid, with confusion, stress, or worse, after 120. So, if you've been putting off creating or updating your will, especially if you want it done right, reach out to the team there that is the law firm I mentioned earlier, but

13:04 you're not going to get me to repeat the name because there's so many names. They have so many people. It's important. Please, please, please, you should never actually need it until 120. But get your family put together to the point where you can sleep at night so that your hard-earned money does not get lost in the unnecessary court battles that so many families get stuck with. The money literally drains. Okay? So trusts, estate planning, medical directives, right? God forbid if something was to happen to someone in the family, you shouldn't have that. But you should always be prepared and have things in a row because not everything is as easy as, "Oh, but this is what I always wanted, so why is it?" No, it doesn't work like that. You need a team. Visit nqgr.com.

13:49 I put the link in the show notes. You can scan the QR code. That's nqgr.com. Ask for Schlommoer. They're a team that, like I said, is reputable, dependable, reliable. They've been at this for decades. But when you call Schlommo, I want you to do this. I want you to tell him Ellie from Kosher Money sent you. Thank me later. Now, back to the episode. What's cool is that you're 24 years old and you have learned things that people in their 60s are only learning now. that so much of money is our emotional relationship with money in the sense that you can have a spreadsheet, look at it, and then come back to it 6 months later and think to yourself, hey, I didn't do anything I was supposed to on that spreadsheet.

14:34 Yeah. Because you didn't address the underlying reason slash relationships. >> You have, you know, maybe something from a childhood trauma or a lack of education or impulsivity. Um, which is why that Simmy Manglebomb episode resonated with so many in that I think she's a certified financial therapist. Not many of them exist in the United States. >> Definitely not from ones. >> Right. Exactly. Um, I think maybe at the time she was the only one. And it's cool to see, by the way, just for me, for someone to walk over to me after a daving, after a Sabbath prayer, and say, "Hey, by the way, something you did four years ago completely changed my life." And it's it's heartwarming/rewarding

15:20 to hear because that's our mission to help people, but we don't always hear from most of our listeners. So, that's kind of cool. What were some of the conversations or the initial conversations you had with Simei that opened your eyes? First, props to you for reaching out, not just realizing sometimes people get frozen in where they are. And like you said, it's super difficult to initiate action around that. >> Yeah. >> And and you told me you said you said I didn't even know what I was doing, but I felt that I needed to seek something out and reach out and and try to get an understanding. It was It was the best spontaneous purchase I've ever had. I'm probably the most one of the most expensive, but probably uh one of the best. Yeah. And it didn't come easy. Like it took me from when the podcast aired until I maybe I reached out

16:08 earlier, but until I actually started working with Simmyi was probably six months, maybe maybe even longer, maybe a year. Like it it takes time. To me it was really eyeopening about how people can be in the exact same financial situation, have the same amount of money, be earning the same salary uh and feel very differently um and approach it very differently and do things very differently which once you start realizing that it's just it's clearly not I guess a money issue as much as a psychology I don't know about issue. It's not a money thing as much as a psychology thing or money is a psychology thing which is I think really cool and was really eye opening. >> My favorite book, the psychology of money. >> Yeah. Fast and fantastic. >> So what were those conversations like

16:56 with Simmyi in the sense and people are going to be like, "Oh, is this an ad for Simmy?" No, this is an ad for having Yeah. Help yourself. Help yourself, >> right? Doesn't have to be Simmy. could be anyone out there that, you know, I know Living Smarter Jewish has free coaching and and all that, but having that first conversation, was that eye opening for you to to be validated in that you weren't alone in having these emotions? >> Yeah. Um, it felt good. It definitely felt good. For some reason also, I think that the natural the natural move I I personally did this and I see it in a lot of my friends is just to like totally brush this under the rug for as long as possible. Like never open your

17:41 bank account apps, never open your credit card and just hope that everything works. And it felt good to finally like get past that and and feel like if I felt in control for the first time. uh meaning there was a problem but it felt like okay at least I know what the problem is and I know how to fix it and you know doesn't always happen the first time but at least there was like a feeling of control which for the first time I had um which was really cool and that felt that felt really good. Our guests often talk about lifestyle creep, which you reference in that people start making more money and then they start spending more and they could because they have the money, but what's going to happen is that they're going to end up at the end of the month at $0 and wonder, hey, where did all

18:28 that money go? Yeah. >> Right. And it happens if you're not intentional or realizing budgeting, >> then you're not you're just going to be a hamster on a wheel. Were you finding that? for sure. Uh I think the coolest thing though is is that when you're intentional about it, it gives it gives you the environment and the place to healthfully have lifestyle creep. Like it's good it's a good thing. If you're making more money, you should be spending more money. It's it's I think it's a net positive. Like you continue making more. >> You also want to save more, right? >> I think and again I don't know anything but to me it seems like that the the key is just intentionality. You shouldn't you shouldn't feel bad about spending the money if you have it. For sure. I think the problems come when there's no

19:13 thought process as to why I'm spending it. Just getting a good deal on a car because you saw the ad three minutes ago, not because you thought about this and like, do I want a new car? Do I need a new car? Maybe I should get it. Maybe I shouldn't get it. Again, just just really thinking about it. >> Love that. You saw Morgan Hel's new book on the art of spending money. >> No, that sounds awesome. Yeah. See, so you you can see you're light years ahead of of someone your age. But yes, spending money, intentionality, knowing why. He speaks about this that there's no guidance on >> how to spend money, right? It's it's it's making money, um, storing money, things like that. So, >> I'll tell you the book that did it for me. Well, I I used to be very cheap. Like still initially like like my

19:59 instinct is to be very very cheap. But for me, it was very hard to learn how to make a big purchase and feel good about it and not feel like I would I would do it anyway, but I would just feel disgusting, >> guilty. >> Yeah. Shame, guilty, all that. >> And for me, it was more about well, not making bad decisions in terms of making big purchases. Um, but also feeling good about them when I do make them because I saved for it. I thought about it and I wanted it and I earned it and I got it. And that was that was like the big step for me. I read it. The book that really changed it for me in this topic was money for couples by remitt >> Sethi >> Sethi. He has like a Netflix show also which is really cool. And he just talks about like again the underlying theme is intentionality. Um but he just talks

20:46 about how there's different personalities when it comes to money. There's the saver, there's the spender, there's the overanalyzer. First of all recognizing who you are just so you know your biases. Um, but also as as the uh the saver and the frugal person, feeling good about when you do spend money is it's important. I think it's it's could be more important than spending too much money. >> What was your impetus to pick up a book that's named money for couples being that you're not married? >> Oh, I wish I knew. >> Which is power to you in the sense that you're preparing for a healthy financial marriage, right? You want to make sure you're equipped and not starting to read that book in month six after you're married. So, >> power to you.

21:31 >> Um, I I wish I had a good answer. It probably just popped up in my like YouTube feed or something like that. He must have been He was on I'll tell you he was on Diary of a CEO podcast. That's right. First term at the time. I was an avid Diary of a CEO. >> Yeah, that's our competition. Yeah, for sure. [laughter] >> They're great. Yeah, they're great. So tell me a little bit more about the practical things you did when you started being more intentional. Were you investing for retirement before you were having those conversations and are you investing for retirement now? >> Was I in to some extent I was before? Now I'm much more I I know like what an IRA account is now and and like all the opportunities. So yeah, the practical thing I think is number one just spending significantly less money,

22:18 especially if you're single and have limited bills. I think it's really cool to to be and again, not that I am, I'm trying to get there, but to to be able to live a lifestyle that's significantly below your means, I think is is really cool. Wish I can do that. Trying to get there. So I think that's number one. The most practical thing, though, is just budgeting. Again, it's I very very few of my friends, if any, have a budget. And I think most people about like I'm I'm starting to see like my friends two to three years into their marriage >> is when they start to make a budget. And it's just it's just always especially if you have a job and you have income, you should have a budget. >> Do you think it's because those first couple of years of marriage they're getting money from their parents. So this idea of money is not something that

23:05 they need to be taken seriously. >> Yeah. I think they've never been in a situation where they've had any income. Majority of my friends went to yes or go to yeshiva go to Israel going to Israel is the first time they have any income and are tasked with actually managing their money and don't have their their you know every expense paid for and it usually takes about a year or two for that to kind of catch up and like okay well what's going on here just understanding what's going on here and it's really cool also to see that it's something that's applicable to everybody I have friends who are earning a lot of money you know two $300,000 annually and they're running into the same problems as my friends who are in coell you know getting some sort of support from their parents if you have any sort of income and any sort of expenses there just needs to be a plan I think and I don't

23:52 think most people come in with with that mindset marriage >> artificial intelligence is everywhere powering mind-blowing tools smart systems and yes plenty of hype but here's the real question how can AI actually help your business how are your competitors already using it to Build smarter apps and streamline operations. That's where Bitbeam steps in. They take your big ideas and bring them to life using the latest AI advancements to make custom software more powerful and more affordable. So whether you need an app, a robust back-end system, or a fullscale digital solution, Bitbane can design it, build it, and help it grow. So visit bitbean.com to start the conversation and tell them Ellie from Kosher Money sent you. You'll get premium software

24:39 without the premium price tag. The links in the show notes, QR code on the screen. You know what to do. Did you know that because of Kabad, over 47,000 families in Israel have reliable access to nutritious food? Yes, it's true. That's hundreds of thousands of people being helped because of people like you. Parents shouldn't have to skip meals so their children can maybe eat. And Kabad is on the front lines. They've been around since 1788. It's crazy, right? The percentage of every dollar donated that actually goes to help the poor and sick is very high. Why? Because Kabad keeps administrative costs to a minimum. They try to avoid high rents and have an army of volunteers, great people across the world, actually. But they can't do this alone. So give what you can to our

25:24 brothers and sisters in need. Go to kolkabad.org/coseroney and give what you can. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Links in the show notes. And now back to the episode. As someone who was brought up in in a family, like you said, that didn't have a silver spoon in their mouth and and they weren't the wealthiest family, what do you think your parents and family did for you to instill a mature way of looking at things that, hey, when I run into a challenge, I should seek guidance. When I'm presented with unfamiliar territory, look for a lifeline. Because I would say many parents listening are thinking to themselves, hey, I can't give my kids all the answers, but I want to give them the

26:11 tools they need to be able to maturely tackle a situation that is foreign to them. >> I don't know. You probably have to ask them. Um, but I think they're they're My parents in a lot of ways were were realist. I don't know how to say that. Well, >> you said it. They're they're >> Yeah. They're practical. Yeah, >> they're practical. I don't think they they beat around the bush a lot. Like they just it is what it is and it's it's how it is and they're confident in that. Honest. Like I guess it's the same same kind of thing, but you would have to you would have to ask them. I don't know. >> What else are you doing as it relates to being more intentional? I know you mentioned budgeting, saving for

26:56 retirement, and that is huge. Someone who's 24 years old. If there was one thing I can tell people your age that are listening to this, if they would look at some of my messages from the people who are 43 years old that message me and say, "Where were you 20 years ago?" Not that it's too late. They start. But if I would have known about you 20 years ago, if this would have been available, if this information would have been on my desk, I would have many hundreds of thousands of dollars saved by just putting a small amount away. someone at 24 years old is able to put a couple hundred dollars a month, right? And and for some that might be a lot. So, don't be discouraged if it's $5, $10 a month, but just getting that habit, the amount

27:43 of money they'll have when they're ready to retire or um make a wedding is enormous. >> Yeah. >> What comes to mind when I say something like that? >> I think it's it's hard until you start doing it. It's >> Do you automate? >> Yeah. What platform do you use? Fidelity. He doesn't even know which I which I love in the sense >> use a platform. It's like a investor like the this the guy does I don't reman something. I don't know. >> Amazing in the sense that you have gone to a professional that is trusted and you're saying hey I am cognizant that I am not equipped to know what I need to do so please handle this for me. >> Yeah that's true. Um no but I think to your point automation is key. I think

28:28 that's also it's a just about budgeting and about saving and I think all these things um especially if you're someone like me who it's really uncomfortable which I think is most people it's very important to set things up in a way where you don't have to consistently be mindful of it. I check in once a month. I have my budget. Set my budget for the next month. See where I'm spending too much where I have some more room. Adjust that accordingly. That's it. like I try not to naturally it's something that that it's always on my mind um always have anxiety about it always always there so it was it's important to me and I think this is something simressed it's important that this is set up in a way where you can not think about it regarding intentionality where I think this is coming up in in other areas of

29:14 money which I think is really cool um for the first time I think in my life I'm trying to be really intentional about making money >> what does that Everyone wants to make money and everyone goes to work. What does that mean? You're being intentional to other people >> in how you're making money. No, it it could apply to other people. I just love to know what that means when you're being intentional. >> I think naturally I was always someone who just pursued opportunities very quickly. Kind of jumped into the newest thing, the latest thing. And for the first time and thinking about what do I want to do? What are my goals? What's my 5year goal? What's my 10 year goal? What do I want to accomplish with my career? What do I want to build? What do I want to create? um what do I want my day to look like in 5 years, 10 years, 30 years? And I think this all came from this, from the work I put into here, just intentionality.

30:00 That's been a really cool process. >> That's awesome. The most successful people are the ones who say no to 99% of the opportunities. >> You I mean, you got to earn that. You gota you got to be able to to say no. >> Yeah. But opportunities don't just mean the ones presented to you, but the ones you see on the internet, the ones you see in group chats, the ones that you're looking at and say, "Yeah, I could distract myself from my 9 to5 and just jump in on something flashy." But is that where you should be putting your limited energy? Time is a finite resource. Yeah. >> You don't have the ability, Dave doesn't have the ability to do seven different things at one time. And if you are, you're probably not giving your best to each of them. >> Yeah. It's, you know, it's definitely

30:46 true. And I think where I've seen my personal most success is when I'm just hyperfocused on one thing and not spread thin doing doing seven different things. I think that's that's also important. >> God just sent us this paper that your hand touched and you saw it. I'd love to read it. Uh, four people uh two people. >> What's that? >> Who's this one? >> Both awesome. >> Both both awesome. And we'll get to this one also. But you talk about this hyperfocus right? >> This idea that if you're splintering your focus on too many things, you're not going to be as successful as you you could. And I don't think God intends people to immerse themselves in seven different day jobs, right? I I'm not

31:32 going to get into the whole side hustle thing, you know? I I think there's a time and place, but this idea that if you hyperfocus on one thing that you feel is right for you sounds like that is a recipe for success. >> Yeah, it's very pertaining to me right now because right now I'm actually focused on too many things. But yeah, the most successful times in my life, specifically when it comes to to work, have definitely been when I felt when it's just like one thing, head down, locked in. uh like I think most people would agree with that. >> So what happens when you hit a roadblock? There's an amazing book. It's called The Dip where it sort of educates you on when to give up on something and

32:17 when to try to persevere. And I think it's important we're brought up in a way that says never give up. Always continue down the path you initially set. And that's not always the right thing. Now it's a nuanced decision about what to do and when. He discusses that in that don't invest more time just because you've put a good deal of a time into something already. So we talk about uh hyperfocus. Here's the paper that caught our eyes this morning. Press on. Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not. Nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not. Unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education alone will not. The world is full of

33:04 educated derelcts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent in this idea that when you are hyperfocused and you don't get discouraged when doors close on you. I think there are many people in that boat in that maybe they're not making as much money as your friend group is is making, but they're ready to give up on something that they feel could be a success, you know, buckle down and and and hyperfocus. >> Yeah. I think especially if you're young, like the younger you are, like I still feel like I have tons of time to make mistakes and and um it's a great time to take risks. And I think as a community, we do a pretty good job at that. Like, but I think even more like

33:50 do crazy things that you want to do, not just don't get stuck at the the nineto-ive job. >> I love that because people when they want to start a business at the age of 40 with five kids and a mortgage, >> it's almost impossible. >> Yeah. And had they had your mindset in their 20s where I think it's not about starting a job and just running with it for the next 30 years. And for some people that that does that does work and if it's your personality, great. But your your 20s I look at as a career playground. Find what resonates with you. >> Yeah. But it's not about I think to your point, it's not about starting a company. It's not about working or or or owning a company or anything like that. I guess it's two sides of the coin, but it's not so true what I'm about to say, but using a bit more intentionality of

34:37 like don't pursue the largest paycheck when you're 21 and finding your first job. Put a little thought into it. Where where do I want to go? What do I want to do? And take like it's a time when you could take the biggest risk of your life. I think if there's one thing that I did a good job on, it was that. On the flip side, you know, I always say pursue your opportunities, not your dreams. I don't know how true that is. I don't know. It's it's a controversial idea. I think a lot of people like go a little bit too much into their dreams. I guess there's two sides of every coin and every situation is different. But I definitely feel that when you're a certain age, just do things that you won't be able to do at four. You can always go back to certain things. >> 100%. This is one of those episodes where every time I talk, I say, "Be quiet, Ellie. Just let the guest talk." >> In the sense that you No, no. you in the

35:22 sense that what you're sharing is is extremely valuable not only to the listeners but to me to hear things that I've seen from other guests um that you're bringing up that are extremely wise. Your 20s are a time in which if you capitalize on it, you can really set yourself up. And I love what you said. It's not about taking the biggest paycheck. Imagine going to a job where you take a mediocre paycheck, but the amount of information and skills you're going to attain is through the roof. >> Take on responsibility. That's the key >> in in the job. >> Yeah. >> Go to your boss and say, "Give it to me." Right. What What can I do? >> Yeah. >> And it's scary, right? People are

36:10 nervous to take on more. >> I don't even think that's true. I think most maybe it's just my friend group, but I I see my friend group. I think people m like in their 20s like we we all have d like we want to do stuff. Everyone wants to do especially from people like we we love doing. We love building. We we love creating. There's I think something we're born with and grow up with. >> I I think people just are afraid to like do it. Like I don't know actually like just get it done. >> Yeah. >> That's why I like this. This one is my winner. >> What does it say? Go for it. Don't complicate. Missing somebody, call. Want to meet up? Invite. Want to be understood? Explain. Have questions? Ask. Don't like something? Say it. Like something? State it. Want something? Ask

36:55 for it. Love someone? Tell them. Keep your life simple. That's pretty sick. >> You like that? >> Yeah. Just this. Don't over complicate it. >> Right. Do it. Right. My friend Dove Percell told me that he sees in this next generation, your generation and and younger, kids aren't what they used to be. They're, and I'm going to botch his words, in some way much more sophisticated minds. They're they're they're beyond their years as it relates to previous generations and the depth and and the thoughts they have and the conversations he's had. He he's a camp director/owner and the conversations he's having with

37:41 kids he says is light years ahead of uh previous generations. Rebecca Kish um I never went to but I had a limited experience with Rebecca Kish. And one of the things that he said that stood out with me which I think was crazy. He said 40 years ago when people were dating and they would come home and say, "Okay, this girl's not for me. I just didn't feel it." You would be like, "What does that mean?" Like you don't feel it. Go out on another date. And today he said it's not. It's not the case. You have to respect that. There's something deeper about today's generation. The relationships are are different. We're looking for something more in in a marriage, in our friend group, and and we're speaking about things that were never spoken about. >> That is that is special. >> Love Rebecca Kish. I did spend a few months there.

38:26 >> Me jealous. >> It's not too late. You can go. >> So, you're in the e-commerce space. What does your day-to-day currently look like in in the working world? >> I work in the city, so I travel to the city. Um, right now I'm hyperfocused on my fitness. I spent a few hours in the gym every day. >> That's good for your mental health, by the way. >> Yeah, it's definitely something that's also uh under under I don't want to say talked about, but underdone I guess in the from community. >> We have Charlton Kougall at Kdish and >> helpful. >> Yeah. But but just forget the physical components. I always talk about the mental, you know, the days that you

39:12 don't go to the gym are probably not the same mental days. >> For sure. There's also something about working out where it's just you against your brain. That's really cool. And when you set a goal and you accomplish it, it feels really good. >> Casey Neistat released a video yesterday of a fellow named Logan who has cerebral palsy. And it's a 10-minute video. It's extremely encouraging to watch because he ran the New York City Marathon 26.2 miles. >> Wow. >> And if he could do it, what does it say about us who are healthy and can legitimately set goals and have an easier time accomplishing it? What's our excuse? >> Yeah. Nothing drives me crazier than

39:58 when people say I don't like running or running is not for me. Um because they should know what they can accomplish. It's really cool. It's I think it's also really cool to see people that later in life have like started working out. I think that's really cool. >> Respect. >> Yeah. >> I recently started playing ice hockey. >> Wow. >> And for whatever reason, running is not good for my set of hips that I've been blessed with. But swimming is. Ice hockey is a form of cardio. I enjoy it a lot, but I don't even realize I'm exercising. I think a trick into getting yourself to exercise >> something you like. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> You know, if you like playing basketball, um there are there is a friend group you

40:44 can find that is playing basketball. >> Let me ask uh let me ask you a question. You just mentioned that you started ice hockey, right? One of the biggest fears I have is being older. >> I guess you're not that old, but >> you're older than me. >> Okay. It's backtracking. [laughter] >> Yeah. um and and getting too comfortable and not starting new things. >> Yeah. >> How do you uh how do you fight that? Because I think it's a it's a natural tendency. >> So, the reason I started is because my friend group is is a group of guys that are willing to do things that are more unconventional as it relates to taking on things, businesses, um sports. So,

41:30 if you can have two to three guys that you're surrounding yourself with that, at least for me, that this is how I I got into it. They said, "Hey, you guys want us to play ice hockey?" I I promise you, if you would have video from our first game, it wasn't even a game when we got on the ice to where we are now. It's such a difference, a vast difference. Everyone has ice skated for the most part, but once you put on pads and you do all that, it's an entirely different experience. the pads weigh more. It's tiring. But when my friends were doing it, they created a system. They said, "Okay, go to this store. You can buy used gear, so it's going to be relatively cheap." And then out of 18 out of 20 guys never played before. >> Wow. >> So, everyone kept going to the store.

42:16 They said, "Oh, you're with that group. Okay, come this way." So they, you know, we all set up a system for each other to buy the gear and then someone arranged to get the rink. If I would have had to do that by myself, it never would have happened, right? I think if if for some reason if if working out solo or running by yourself is not ideal, but you enjoy running and find some guys that you can do with. >> It's particularly fitness. I think in general I I personally have a fear of being older and too comfortable in my >> Oh, that question. Yeah. >> Yeah. Um, it it it it's a trap, you know, getting old is a trap in the sense that >> I was just thinking about it yesterday. I was looking at an older person maybe in their 70s and they were so

43:06 hooked on a certain mentality and was telling myself I said, "God, please, when I get older, God willing, let me be older, but let me have the ability to change my mind." >> Yeah. >> After a certain age. >> Really cool story. I'm good friends with uh you know Usher Weinberger. He's Weinberger's son. >> Yeah. started. >> Yeah, sure. >> Entrepreneur. Good guy. >> Really good guy. >> I do want him to ask his father if we can get him on the pod, but I'll come to a if you want me to. Okay, but go ahead. >> So, he told me a really cool story about his parents probably about a year ago. So, I don't know how old we don't want to misqued age. >> Probably in his 60s if I had to guess. >> He told me a story that stayed with me from he said

43:52 we were we were going out on like a Sunday. He said, "My parents just sent an email or a text to all my siblings." He said they were at a Shabaton for for parenting. And I don't know what it was, if they heard some sort of speech or whatever, but they sent a whole apology note to all their kids for I think like all the things they did wrong or like we made mistakes in this area and we should have done this, which I thought was like whoa, they're 70. the older kids are way older >> and they're still first of all going to like and whatever and still he's so not set in his ways that he's able to rethink everything recognize that he made a mistake at that age I think is >> I could barely do that right now and >> I think it's really cool

44:37 >> no that's special such a great family >> we were talking about fitness exercise asks, "If someone can get into the habit of being mindful about taking care of their body, going for an annual physical, I push that all the time. Just go find out who your friends are using for a doctor and just go for an annual physical. Get into the habit of doing it at 24. Oh, why should I? Because on the slim chance that there's something brewing, you'll you'll get out ahead of it." 39 turning 40 in January. So, I'm excited that I am playing ice hockey. I I don't enjoy lifting weights or or anything like

45:24 that, running, you know, and and to your point, >> you know, maybe maybe that's on me. Do it anyway. But, but I I find that I can do it anyway and enjoy it. You just got to find something. I I wonder how that applies to business careers. This idea of not getting overly connected to a specific way of doing things, right? Think about someone running a business. If they were opening a marketing business right now, it would be very AIdriven. I have a marketing business and we're looking at AI and we're spending time in it. But if we had to start again, the business today would look very different than it would when we started it 10 years ago. And how

46:09 much of our habits and our processes are baked into 2016 versus 2026. So I think like you said, a lot of what we're talking about has application to other areas of life. I hope many people in their 20s are are listening to this because I think you you do bring a lot of wisdom to the table. What else? >> Said with caution. I don't know. Listening to my wisdom. >> See, he's humble, too, which is I I think an important piece recognize that some of the things we're so passionate about in our minds could be false. >> Yeah, I think that's that's important. Let me ask you a question. Um, and kind of why I initially reached out. I told you something about this topic excites

46:56 me. I don't know why. I haven't figured it out yet. Um, but it feels really good. which topic specifically >> intentionality around money. >> Um and creating awareness about that I guess. >> Okay. >> Something like that. >> You want to help people. >> Yeah. What do you think is the missing? What do you think is the >> I think if we gave your email address out right now, you would literally have between five and 17 schools reach out to you to bring you down to their high school, to their college, to their base madish, wherever, and have you give a 38 minute speech about your story, as crazy as that sounds. I don't know if that's where you want to be. >> I don't know what my story is that's so special, but okay. You know, we can

47:41 create a framework based on the things you've shared that many of the schools don't know where to start and imagine it coming from a >> starting what just like >> they don't know how to educate >> financial literacy and intention to their students in a practical way that will stay with them. I think I don't know that if there's one solution, but I think if a certain person is equipped with knowledge and that can potentially resonate with a group of people in a room, start there. >> Okay. >> We're not looking for perfect solutions. >> And what I asked you before, I was interested in um what do you what do you think is the problem? Meaning I think the I think the problem is there's just no intentionality slash no conversation, which I think goes hand in hand.

48:27 >> Yeah. Um, do you first of all, do you agree that that's the problem? And and why? Like where does that come from? What's the reason? >> When you say a problem, do you mean that as people get into their >> not the problem, a problem? >> A problem that as people get into their adult lives, they're not equipped to in the world of money. Is that >> I don't even think it's equipped. I think it's they don't know that they have to be equipped. >> Right. Right. So if if they don't realize they have to be equipped, then we need to start having conversations earlier. And I don't know if it's the schools, I don't know if it's parents, families, I think it's everyone in the sense that we need to be discussing it without

49:12 overly emphasizing it, having healthy conversations about it. Whether that means having a class on finances, finding times intentionally during the month to have a conversation with your child, give a book about it, having a conversation, but but not overdoing it, right? You don't want them to be thinking about um the finances of your home. >> Mhm. But who's to say that when they get some sort of allowance, you're teaching them about what Meicer is and giving to the poor and what is a retirement account and why that matters. So, I think the parents have to be intentional and the schools have to be intentional because otherwise they're going to produce more 20-year-olds that

49:58 are getting into their adult lives without realizing that finances is a core piece of that. >> Does that make sense? >> I think so. >> But but there's no one solution. I I think you know every community >> what's I'm trying to break down to like what's the simplest problem and what's the simplest solution. I the the most I have right now >> Yeah. >> is kind of like what I keep saying which is there's just no intentionality. And the simplest solution is everyone that's earning a dollar, whether that's from their parents, whether that's from a job and has some level of expenses, which is pretty much anyone who's earning a dollar, um should have some sort of budget. They should have some sort of basic spreadsheet, some sort of app.

50:43 >> Yeah. But but before that, I think there needs to be more in conversation, >> right? >> You can't tell people about something they have to be intentional about if they don't even know that world exists. >> So people, a lot of people learn the hard way, right? You learned the hard way. People in your friend groups that are married two, three years that are learning the hard way. >> Yeah. >> Not the impossible way. It's just not ideal to be exposed to the idea of, hey, you may have challenges in finances, whatever that is. Maybe have too much of it, too little of it, have to deal with it, but they're only discovering that world exists when they're 23. >> Yeah. It's interesting. So if we if we try to patch together some sort of framework of increasing the conversation then being

51:30 more intentional about it, it will set the Daves up in the future to not be blindsided by it. They'll be ahead of the game. The same way anyone who's listening right now that invests a small amount will be ahead of the game when they're 60. Knowledge compounds also. >> Yeah. And if you can create good habits when you're younger and there's no there's no I don't think that there you know every family needs to give an allowance to them and make sure they're doing chores to each their own. But to your point be intentional about how you educate and introduce the topics related to finance uh to people cuz this is the world that God set up. If God didn't want us to be here, then we wouldn't have to work in order to provide for our families. But

52:17 now that this does exist, we need to be Yeah, let's talk about it. Rabbi Khani says that if someone doesn't budget, >> it's an aa. >> Wow. >> Why? Because you will be led to a world of jealousy. You will always want what your neighbor has because you think that you deserve or you have the money for it and then you're in a whole big mess and you're ruining lives as a result. I'm paraphrasing but >> yeah, one of probably what excites me a lot is about doing something in this space. I'm jealous of you that you're you're able to current living here and be able to do it's so cool. I I think you should give thought to what you want to >> That's why I'm here,

53:03 >> right? >> You know, the world is your oyster. If I can help be a conduit to whatever it is you want to do as it relates to helping people. That was just one thought I had about speaking to high school students and beyond. >> Yeah. >> Which could be very helpful to groups of people at a time. No different than there's this fellow uh Mendy Feffreorn who's going to different communities and educating them on what pieces a 20 30 40 50-year-old 60-year-old has to do to set themselves up well for retirement. >> I spoke to um what's the RSK guy's name? >> Rabbi Matis Gilbert. >> So I spoke to Matis. He said something so cool which is he he just raised a bunch of money he told me and he said few million dollars or something for his organization. They help the middle

53:49 class, the lower middle class. >> Yeah. Which I think this is the this is that's the problem. Lower middle and upper is the problem. Once you get too low, the problem is you just have to make more money. >> Mhm. >> Like >> and there are many resources for somebody >> who's earning too little >> who's earning too low. >> I think the problem is specific. What's really cool is I think the problem gets bigger as you make more money. The people earning >> I don't know what middle class is considered because I don't have a family, but let's say 500 $600,000 upper middle class I think are the like they are the problem. Like they they they're the ones suffering. I think >> I I would say it's the lower middle class in the sense that if someone is making that number you described, they're able to live. >> It's easier to Oh yeah, definitely. >> The challenge is when someone is in a

54:37 place where they're making a tremendously awesome salary, right? Well, let's say it's $200,000. That's that's >> astronomical in the US. That's phenomenal >> if you don't have a tuition. Yeah. >> Right. But then when you layer certain things into it, people feel like, hey, where am I going wrong? And those people have to be told like, no, you're crushing it. You're crushing it. There are things that are more difficult because of the environment in which we live in. But that doesn't make it that you can't have a beautiful life. It doesn't mean that we can't lessen the challenges that you do have, especially when we work together with organizations like RSK.

55:24 So, what did he say? Oh, so his point was just really cool in a sense that part of I guess why he raised the money or or how he was able to raise the money. He says all this money that we invest now in people my age 25 30 years old it's the best return on seducka that you'll ever get. I think 20 people that are 20 25 30 I personally think the number is a little higher than what you're saying but let's say earning $300,000 in five 10 years. Um I think a lot of my friends will be capable of that. I think more than ever for sure like like we were talking about before I think people my friend we're not to pat my back but we're all smart we're all >> it's just inflation money don't don't listen to him [laughter] yeah >> um but I think we're going to be earning more money than any previous generation

56:10 >> I mean it looks that way at least if this is not talked about and dealt with there will be problems like it just the money won't show in terms of from a community standpoint like what we're able to accomplish as a community and to the contrary I think for every dollar that's invested in this there's in 10 years there's instead of debt and seducka that needs to be funded to pay that there there's going to be a surplus and more money going towards Sedaka and going towards other causes which I think is really cool. I'm I'm misphrasing how Mata said it. He said it in one sentence and really articulate and really clear but it was just a cool concept. >> Good people doing good things. Yeah, there's a lot of that. And

56:55 >> the amount of good that the younger generation is doing is also not to be believed there. There are people that reach out to me that have these pocketed organizations and different communities and the ability to not just make money is as great as it's ever been. And I was told by Rabbi Lawrence Hajio that that's a messianic >> love that man. >> Yeah, he's awesome. Right. This is a messianic road map in that people are not going to have to work at a certain point and money and resources will be provided without it. And you can see how with AI that that's working, which means that people will have more time to create

57:43 organizations to do more to do more good. >> Um, and just to finish off on that note, >> I found in my personal life, the more I help people, the more God takes care of me. Not just in in dollars in charity, but spending time helping somebody using my skill set to help somebody who may have a void in a particular space without expecting anything in return. You know, we God sees everything. So I think what's cool to see is the younger generation also, you know, if they're able to connect people that would be a good shak or start something even small in their own community. Power to them. Okay, we could probably be talking for

58:29 >> um quite a while. What didn't I ask you? What what closing remarks? And before we get to closing remarks, what's the best email address if someone did want to share a thought or comment or idea with you? I guess [email protected] >> dkatz902 >> 902gmail.com. Okay. >> Any closing thoughts? >> Probably a whole bunch. I I guess what comes to mind is what we what we came out with here, which is I think like like something I need to hear also, which is just like talk about this. Like something I think what's really cool, like what I said before, which is money is not specific to everyone. Obviously, it's it shows up differently for everyone. Um, the problems are different, but something that everyone has to deal with. Don't be afraid to talk about it.

59:16 Intentionality like the the key thing. >> Love it. Dave, this conversation came about >> very quickly. >> Messaged me, called him, he started talking for a few minutes. I said, "Dave, are you in the five towns?" "Yes." "Can you be by the studio?" He said, "Yes. Give me 10 minutes." Boom. Record. Are you okay with us releasing this conversation? >> Can I watch it before? >> Yes, you could. >> Yeah. >> What's your what what do you think your decision is going to end up being? >> 50/50. Um I'm curious, I guess, like why it's helpful. It's not clear to me like why this like I know it's helpful to me. It feels good. >> Oh, you want you were the guy who said we got to be talking about this, >> right? >> So this is us talking about it. You have

1:00:03 to be comfortable being uncomfortable, >> right, >> with people hearing you talk about it. >> Like I said, I >> starts with you. >> Yeah. >> So, I'll let you watch it before, but >> are you going to let us release it? >> Let me watch it. But I I Yeah, I just want to double check, I guess, that I didn't say anything. >> Okay. That that will give him We do that to all our guests. We never push it on him. Um people um and yes, we will give him the ability to say no. You're not. But I wanted to put him on the spot as well. Okay, Dave, thank you so much. This was really, really important. >> This is cool. >> Cool. Thanks. >> Awesome. That was good. No, >> I think so. >> Was it therapeutic for you? >> Yeah. [laughter] >> What an inspiring episode. Intentionality. It's a word that came up again and again and again today. Whether

1:00:50 it's [music] how we spend our money, our time, our energy, the lesson is the same. Don't let life just happen to you. Design it. Be deliberate. talk about the things that make you uncomfortable because that's usually where the growth begins. And Dave, it wasn't easy for him to come on, but he did it. Let's learn from his story. He reminded us that money isn't just about numbers. Think think more intentionally about what money and everything in your life means to you. [music] And if this conversation sparked something in you, I don't just want it to be inspirational. I want it to be a [music] step in the right direction. If it inspired you to open a budgeting app, call Simmy Mandelbound. Again, not an ad. Sign up with [music] living smarterjwe.org for budgeting. Get help with your debt from kosherdhelp.com. Actually, by the way, I went to kosherdehelp.org. They go to the same

1:01:35 place. [music] Have that financial talk. Start being intentional. And that's where your change is going to begin. My thanks to our episode sponsors, the bonus app. If you want to start saving on your kosher grocery shopping, download the bonus app today. Thanks to my friends [music] at the estate planning law firm. Highly recommended you reach out to them so you can ensure your family is set up for success. It's literal peace of mind. Thanks to my friends at Bitbeam. They're your custom software solution. So, if you own a business or are working in a business and you need custom software because a lot of your work is very laborious on the computer and you're doing the same things over and over and your [music] spreadsheets are a mess, speak to Alex at Bitbean. Have a conversation and you never know, your company might just save

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