Love and War - 25 Years of Professor Bernice Summerfield at Big Finish

0:00 hello this is Lisa bman and you're listening to the Sirens of [Music] audio [Music] get day audio files this is the Sens of audio the show that explores the

0:46 universe of Doctor Who and the audio medium I'm Dwayne and I'm Philip good day Dwayne good day audio files good day Philip I was going to see how you reflected that back at me it was a little reflection but not too much no no just you're quite restrained you always got too much enthusiasm today for me Dwayne oh I've just spent the day at the beautiful beaches here at um esperence in West Australia that's where I'm sitting right now uh beautiful part of the world I can highly recommend anyone to get over here you should come over and do some camping philli oh Are there festar hotels there um well I've got a good tent you can have that you can have that if you want the only sort of camping I do is in hotels there going to be at least four stars yeah I figured that all right today's

1:32 episode is another one of our 60th anniversary season shows and I thought we couldn't go past having a look at the character of Benny Summerfield who has recently celebrated 25 years only in the last couple of months at Big finish so of course the character has been around for a lot longer but 25 years at Big finish it's a good run for a single character it's a pretty amazing run and it's probably well would be the most successful series big finish has been running alonger than Doctor Who but with more breaks and less episodes in terms of You Know series that's one of the best and to do that we're going to have a look at the story Love and War which is a novel adaptation of the first appearance of Benny Summerfield written

2:18 by Paul Cornell and adapted by Jack Rainer uh because we had to think for a minute about which story we'd focus on for this because um I'm not a huge fan of oh no it isn't which is the very first one you you would probably love it U being a a theater person I do love that one I think it's a brilliant story bit better this one yeah well I'm kind of been cled to agree but we'll talk more about that um shortly before we do that do you know what know what DNE what I think you do come and jump down the rabbit hole with me let's [Applause] go [Music]

3:05 all right Philip we're down the rabbit hole and I was going to let one of our YouTube viewers and listeners um lead us on the rabbit hole topic today um he took the time to send us a or or post a huge comment on our YouTube channel um so I'm going to read it it's quite long so make yourself a cup of tea philli and get a get a bigi and uh relax actually itch my foot so I'll just itch my foot while you're doing it because my foot's really itchy okay excellent well that's a good way to pass the time but I'll keep listening okay so here we go this is from uh YouTube user jy9 no yeah 1 1992 and he says it's been a while since

3:52 I've come here to the podcast but I noticed you were taking feedback from YouTube comments if my comment is read out it depends how you'd like to address me if it's a real name it's Aaron if it's an online name it's jie as in a bit like the U in June the sound of a k or C is a sound of a can uh a heads up and I can't stress this enough this comment is going to be a long read with this out of the way I'm a totally blind person so for me audio is very important I wanted to come here because of the universe launch when they said that every episode had accessibility well they were not kidding on the I player in the UK every single episode now has audio description the

4:39 first of a the first of hember as I'm now calling this month for this anniversary got me so excited me and Dad sat down to watch BBC 4 with their documentary talking Doctor Who the new ident played and it was the first time I'd experienced it I genuinely cried to the point where Dad asked me what's up I checked I player a little bit before and was a little Gob smacked at just how much was on there so exciting but then it all hit when the ident actually happened on TV they're taking this seriously and describing what they can as well for the blind my conclusion I think it all just overwhelmed at once in the best possible way and what a way to

5:24 start documentary followed by a Universe trailer followed by the th Anniversary Concert followed by another hooniverse trailer left me so excited that night I then went back to my computer and began right away watching tales of the TARDIS this also had audio description by the end of the First new scene I was balling my eyes out quietly it was the fifth doctor and Teegan and their new dialogue was just so so moving I've also finished up the current line of once and future and I loved it the current last in the line the union was released the Wednesday before which was a stroke of Genius although they would have been

6:10 very epic if they had just waited one more week and released it at the same time as the universe what a treat that would have been but amazingly the BBC announced the hoverers date first then big Finnish on their podcast announced the release date for the union and I was absolutely gobsmacked it was a br Brant precursor to the universe launch and now I can't wait to see and hear what's in store next even big Finnish now has Tales from the universe as a sale I know I've spent a long time rambling on about this and I haven't explained my doctor who story so in brief started in 2005 with my dad I got the first series DVD box set that Christmas which had talking menus and

6:55 for the first time ever for Doctor Who audio description and I've never looked back throughout the years I picked up the soundtracks and that's how I learned the composer's name who is of course muray gold safe to say I love the music he's done for the show I love the new themes for 15 and the life of Sunday as well fast forward to today and I have a big finish account and have absolutely continue to be a fan and I feel like it's a new beginning for Doctor Who Please keep up the awesome work I have a feeling there's a lot of the podcast I still need to listen to thank you all so much for all of your unique takes love the short story about how you got a theme specifically or specially composed

7:43 as well and I love how you've gotten some ID Dan from people involved with our favorite Tales of a mad man in a box I hope you've enjoyed reading this comment and if it's read out I really hope there's enough runtime for it but if I eat into it I truly truly apologize and if you need to cut some bits out of the comment that's fine by me thanks in advance Aaron or jie a blind person from the UK PS I almost forgot currently my favorite doctor is David Tenant but I also love poor Manan but that's because I still need to enter the classic Universe properly and experience the rest of them there you go what' you think of that Phillip what a sensational message

8:28 um just answer how old he is I miss that any idea how old Aaron is no but he he says he started watching in 2005 with his dad so I I couldn't say Aaron let us know what your age is what how old were you when you started because I I find that fascinating and it's really nice that it's all that audio description is there I'm just wondering if the audio description is there for all of the classic series because that would be Sensational if that was there um I I know the audio descriptions are usually done when DVDs have been released over the years so it's all there available to put on the I player but um yeah Classic series if that's done too wow yeah because it is so great that accessibility is becoming part of the norm and for years no one thought about

9:16 anyone else you know the you normal person which I don't think really exists was all you know cat for really well but anyone with any particular needs and there's more needs just know being of course um it's good that we're starting to move into a society where we can actually find different ways of you know making accessibility possible and and recognizing that there are you know vulnerable vulnerable people out there people who need accessibility who will enjoy and love the show just as much um as we do um with just a bit extra help so I'm really glad the money is being spent to make that possible I I don't know whether it's available out here we haven't got really the universe out here I'm hoping we might see the universe come in some sort of form may maybe to

10:02 Disney but um I'm really excited about what's going on um does that mean I actually don't know the tales the test I don't know what order they were shown in so I I sort of assumed they would have gone from first Doctor onwards it sounds like the fifth doctor story earthshock would have been the first one so um yeah once again if people know what the order there were are they in an order or you can just click on them in any order on I guess it's there wasn't I don't know I I don't have I player so I'm not sure yeah I guess you could just choose anyone in any order it doesn't matter I I don't know i' been trying to work out if there's an order there you go yeah lots of we still know about you know us people us out here in Australia we've always been missing some things but we've had other advantages as well but I think it's wonderful that the Universe on I player seems to be opening

10:50 up the universe of Doctor Who to fans who came in in 2005 now so fans who were there from that series that we were so excited about that was a return that was the beginning for them and now they've got this whole expanded universe which is absolutely fantastic and Aaron if you haven't yet delved too deeply into big finish um make sure you listen to all the ones that are available on on Spotify for free as well um that'll give you a good taste of the classic doctors if you haven't got into the classic doctors too much yet but of course there's a lot of pagan there too and the first couple of seasons of P again are available for free on Spotify with the amazing India Fishers Charlie yeah there's so much there to

11:36 discover so wow how exciting still you know having stuff to discover I'm still I'm just still trying to close off Collections and things um yeah I don't think anyone could possibly have every single thing that's out there now there was a time when we might we may have been able to but I don't think anymore yeah I I thought I was doing pretty well with a lot of stuff but yeah there stuff that I'm entire areas I don't even try to to get into now so I I know at our events people are a bit dismayed at the fact that Doctor Who had left the ABC now and it was only available on Disney plus which is a paid subscription service but one thought that came across to me with with the hooniverse and I player is keep in mind

12:21 that everyone who accesses that directly um pays the license fee so which is probably more I think it's I think it might be £ 150 or something is it7 it's more it's more than we're paying for more than we pay for disy plus Disney plus and in fact most of my streaming services combined would be about the same as yeah I think so yeah I mean the streaming service are pretty good and do and we do have Dr Who and other streaming services all the news series is on I think it's on Prime isn't it Prime Amazon yeah so the only the only shame was that it uh the classic series got removed from Brit box for some reason I don't know why that why that would be but CU because the Assumption was when

13:07 it came off brickbox that it would appear on Disney but so far no classic episodes on Disney as yet yeah I'm I'm certainly glad I'm still I'm still buying everything in hard form because things just disappeared too fast so Blake seven was on Brit box that's all gone um Blake s's gone too now it's off bit box as well yeah oh wow so so Ian they might put it back again on L later but nothing stays on streaming services for that long they sort of come on for a while they go off and so I'm really glad actually they still have all the physical material for the the best stuff because you just don't know when you need it I guess they have a look at how many people are actually watching things like Blake seven and maybe because I'm sure they would have to pay a regular license fee

13:53 or some kind of fee um to have it sitting there and if no one's watching it there's no no real point in having it there is there or if the numbers aren't just sort of justifying it I was going to watch it it was gone because I didn't want to because I'm too lazy to walk upstairs and get my DVDs out yeah well fortunately we have or or like me sat sat with all your favorite series and ripped them onto your hard drive so I've always got them plugged into my television I did that to seven as well as Doctor Who okay well yes I need to start doing that I think keep myself good all right thank you very much Aaron we really appreciate your comment it's been fun to listen to and and thank you so much for for your kind words about the podcast too you have got a lot to catch up with uh if

14:40 you if you haven't heard all our our great interviews uh I hope I hope you've us a five star review and a good comment on our Apple podcast too so this gets discovered by more people so and all those people all those people listening out there hundreds hundreds of you please review us we'd love love more reviews and four five stars um just so that more people can see this fantastic all right let's crawl up up out of the rabbit hole we're going to talk about Love and War which is a virgin new adventures adaptation written by Paul Cornell adapted by Jack Raina and uh I will read the blur on a planet called Heaven all hell is breaking loose Heaven is a cemetery for both humans and draconians

15:25 a final place of rest for those lost during war time the doctor arrives on a trivial mission to find a book or so he says an ace wandering around joy town becomes involved with a charismatic traveler called Jan but the doctor is strenuously opposed to the romance what is he trying to prevent is he planning some more deadly game connected with the coffins revered by the mysterious Church of the vacuum and the unusual Arch that marks the location of a secret building below ground archaeologists beneath Summerfield thinks so her Destiny is inextricably linked with that of the doctor but even she may not be able to save Ace from the time Lord's plans this time has the doctor gone too

16:11 far you know it's funny I've had a lot of Adventures over the years been to a lot of places done a lot of things some you probably know about others you probably don't but I don't think I've ever explained how it all started I used to be an archaeologist back in the day fake my qualifications not that I really talk about that much but when the rest of the world was battling darx I was unearthing ancient crumbling artifacts digging up pots and coins and oh I loved it then one day something changed I was working with a team of mine Excavating this great old Arch on a planet called Heaven what really we're on the edge of Empire between human and Draconian Space

16:58 Heaven is host to Farmers the library archaeologists archaeologist that's what I was doing there digging up an ancient Arch and that's where I met the doctor or rather where he met me I'm the doctor I'm the professor and I'm very busy so if you don't mind I will yes you need a sonic screwdriver ah well you know how to take all the fun out of archaeology don't you he said he traveled the universe in a police box that was bigger on the inside than the outside the Tardis he called it he had a friend of his with him too hi I'm Ace she seemed nice from what I could see she came from the 20th century filled me in on a few crucial details not someone you'd want to mess with then

17:44 things started to change she met a boy the lad from the marketplace they fell in love maybe I can come with you you should take me away in your ship and teach me about alros and service stations and L plates and then the dead rose up the fields of Heaven are thick with meat Time Lord meat we can use people died I mean lots of people everybody made sacrifices peace leave me alone I can't I won't let go of me there was never going to be a happy ending the doctor was always going to lose the best friend he could ever have hoped to have [Music]

18:29 but then he found a new one someone different someone he wouldn't manipulate not ever that's me by the way this is the story of that very first Adventure the story of how I met the doctor a story of life and death choices regrets A Tale Of Love and War love and War the facts and trivia story from the new adventure novel by Paul Cornell adapted by Jaclyn Rainer part of the novel adaption series by big Finnish recorded on the 28th and 29th of January 2012 and released in October 2012 starring Sylvester McCoy Sophie

19:16 alred and Lisa Balman directed by Gary Russell script editor and producers Gary Russell and Scott Hancock sound design and music by Steve Foxon cover art by Andy Lambert this was the first of 11 of the new adventure novels and past doctor novels to be adapted by big finish people had been asking for years for big finish to adapt the best of the novels however when they did they didn't sell that well and the range was expanded after 4 years two previous new invention novels had been adapted for big Finnish but in both cases the doctor had been removed as big Finnish did not have the rights to use the doctor in their first years and they only had Benny those two stories were birth right and just War this was the first vir new adventure novel since dragon's Roth in

20:02 2000 this is the first time the doctor Ace and Benny have been together since 2003's Dark Flame by big finish in a Facebook po run by big finish in 2012 this was wrote as the best big finish story of the year though we all know the Facebook polls aren't necessarily that accurate the story is set on the planet Heaven which is set between Earth and tooni in space Bernard Holly who plays brother fat had appeared in Doctor Who and both his roles in Doctor Who he' reprised for being finished he was Peter Hayden in t the San the guy who got blasted at the end of the first episode and axos in the claw of axos Charlie Hayes who plays the death was the daughter of w pedre second pedy second doct companion Zoe and those are

20:50 the facts and the trivia thank you very much for that Phillip now when I went and relistened to this I was reminded of how I was feeling when it was first released I was very excited about this because I was never really into the Virgin new adventures I read the first one time worm Genesis I read Nightshade as well at the time and I think they might be the only two virgin new adventures that I read during the '90s so it's a it's the similar story for you you didn't read the novels too much either did no that's was probably the period when I was starting to take a bit of a break from fandom so sort of yeah when Sylvester

21:36 McCoy's era came on it was starting to be shown as tourance television at sort of a 4:30 slot in the afternoon show so I did watch all the Sylvester mcores but then when the show ended I didn't really move particularly i s had a couple of years off off big fandom for a while and so when all these started coming out I wasn't buying them wasn't reading them and yeah it didn't really take any interest that I did have actually read love I actually own a copy of love and W I did buy it I want to buy it I probably bought it just before this came out because I wanted to read it before the the adaption came so I I bought a copy just secondhand before this was released and have read and I've read it since one time as well for well half read it another time is actually an excellent novel I really did enjoy it um but yeah

22:23 I never really got into the novels even though I I do have a a whole heap of them which is not particularly them okay so my feelings at the time which are similar to my feelings now were that this story was so jam-packed full of stuff that I needed knowledge of from the novel and surrounding novels because there are elements here that are used in other stories too that there were things that I just that just went over my head um the other thing I really noticed because we're trying to focus on this as being the 25th anniversary of uh Benny Summerfield at Big Finnish was that it's not an overly heavy even though it's her introductory story she's not in it much um it's more of an ace leaving story than a than an

23:09 introductory story for Benny even though it is um so in that respect I was a little bit disappointed that Benny wasn't in it so much but there were some interesting facts that I learned about Benny that I had never really paid attention to before or forgotten uh about about her actually being a professor or and about her parents that kind of thing so I found that those kind of facts interesting but as a person who's read the novel how do you think it's stood up the audio adaptation how do you think it's stood up to to the novel itself I think all the audio japanes have suffered the same way the novels are so dense with information with detail that the audios just haven't got a

23:56 chance and so a lot of stuff had to be left out a lot of scenes had to be left out and a lot of the scenes were really rushed to get enough in so I think trying to do two CDs and it's two parts um but like four four four 25 it's just two hour long paths there's just too much I mean the novel's 10 hours to read and so trying to reduce 10 hours to two I think you're really really pushing it so this really great scene but it is rushed so much so the whole love you the whole love thing with Ace and Chan it just comes out of nowhere and I know and in the book this it's all done sort of through um you know what's going on in

24:43 their minds love at first side it's all in their heads but you can't do a lot of stuff in audio so a lot of the stuff that the Noel has um is just lost because of just the this audio kind F convey what a book and conve Val and so a lot of the relations get lost that way a lot of description gets lost um I I do enjoy it but it's it's probably not I I would listen to the Benny series well before I listen to this because their rich is audio stories and you know particularly the first six seven eight seasons of Benny those they're spectacular like so good um and just yeah we're definitely going to in 24 next year we're definitely going to do into a few more bennies I was

25:29 thinking about this before and thinking we should really do something more semi-regular with that series because it's not something we've touched on I don't think ever before on the podcast and it's something that's so important yeah yeah no you're right we we really haven't and and I love them and I mean I love the novels and I love the big finished novels I I I I mean I know her father well because of death of the dialects and they bring him back in the books and and in the series um I think the characters on the Brax collection I mean I love the whole Brax collection and the life there and the leaving there all that stuff is just spectacular and as much as I enjoyed this and and I think it's a it's a good celebration for an anniversary but it it doesn't stack up with as good as Benny

26:14 is elsewhere and it's interesting I mean you know River song is so similar to Benny that it's you know you sort of think yeah you easily could replace Benny for With a Song in the entire TV series because it's you know archaeologist and you know the the sarcasm and the wit and the yeah it's the similarity between those two are pretty astounding and both played by amazing actresses and even though writers for either one sort of uh put sort of what's the word I'm looking for like they kindly say no no no they're totally different characters they the similarities between them are incredible so it's uh it's almost like Steven Moffett was drawing dra on some of poor Cornell's work there yeah did of a r for

27:04 Benny I how many how many new adventures did he write did he wrote I don't think he wrote any oh did he I don't think so so I don't that show how well I know the new adventures I had the I thought I had some Stu no not that I not that I recall I think it was I think it was Russell was the only one that did uh damage Goods that was the only one wasn't it that he wrote yeah quite possibly yeah I like the setting uh set in that sort of Frontier in space type era so you've got the Draconian human war with d threat as a everpresent threat and I guess that's why the dicts come into the Benny stories uh through through that area era which I I can't

27:52 wait to delve into it in a bit more depth as I relisten to everything I haven't even heard all the Benny stories I've heard the first few seasons but yeah it might be good to delve into the books as well I might have to listen to the audio books eh yeah I must have I've been I've been planning and I just haven't got to it I want to actually listen to everything in chronological order and maybe we should do it as a project philli yeah well we do this yeah well maybe we just do you know a chunk in every you know three months we just do you know season one yeah and every three months so we spit out over a couple of years it's too much to do but I would like to I would I did read the books at the time because I you know because once again you kind of needed to read the books because suddenly you know Benny turns up with a baby at once say how the hadn't read the Glass Prison and

28:38 I forget the one before that where she gets for pregnant well not she's not at her body which he for long story um so there's novels are really key in terms of fitting in with the AO stories which why I really do want to and now they come up with Benny yeah with Benny Lisa reading them I'd love to listen to them R and then slot them in so yeah let's start doing that next year let's take take a chunk of you know one novel and four the four stories that go with it and at least you know do some chunks along the way because I really love the Benny stories it's been a long time since I've listened to them yeah for sure um some of the ideas within the story I had to look up on tardus Wiki because it was just sort of going over my head a bit uh pter space that was a

29:25 concept that was used across several books um it was a a matrix type scenario uh where they could go in and it was like a whole different Universe they could go in and meet people and interact with people and although was a fascinating idea but do you think that worked on audio it seem what just listening to the gala Fray War Room the second one they've got they're using a very similar technique as that where different characters well they've got the Matrix GFR has always had the mat Matrix hasn't it they have but they they're using the same idea where they people are coming in from all different parts of the universe and and able to meet and and it actually doesn't even matter what time zone they're in they man they managed to meet out at the same time so so there um I love to see you know leelo and narvin um and he's two

30:13 weeks in her future but yeah he's just comeing she's there already and they meet at the time give the information and then separate again um so that's the ID has been used before it's a really good of Storytelling it's actually quite terrifying fing and of course one of the main characters dies in pter space but he's man manages to pull his all his brain and thinking into pter space with him so there's a sense of which he's still alive and he manes animate bodies there's just so much there's so much happening there's so much plot um I mean compared to the S Beast where there's not much plot at all and I mean one I led about the starb was the fact that you know it was just a little comic strip and they actually removed

30:59 half the plot from the comic strip to make the TV show it's interesting isn't it how yeah it's all about being fun and and so I think it's funny that star Beast has removed a lot of the plot um and you know just I mean also talk about the DARS and the fact they produced it down that 70 minute version whereas you know if if um you know Disney were making the DARS they'd make it 10 episodes when nothing happened for the first four because it's a show is that forget how you pronounce the name but yeah shows like that and turning episode six of the dials into two onh hour episodes rope coming over well no I mean they do more more character stuff that every time the Rope

31:44 fell you'd have a a flashback to a past life and why they couldn't why they didn't know how to throw a rope properly they they paded out um yeah so this this is so hacked though with information which is fascinating how or Cornell manages to get such a hacked story inspired by one single line from the brain brain of morbius isn't it where is it the is the no what's what's the the um I think it's Marin in the brain of orus says even the silent gas uh whatever their right those gas things even the silent blah

32:30 Blas of the hotai can be felt in our bones or something like that so that was the inspiration for the hutai which is the villain in Love and War which a fascinating alien too the way really and even their complex the way they work and the way they infect people and yes I mean you brain over you've got zombies you've got you know bare feet being absorbed you've got all kinds of things happening um you've got a very complicated Love Story between Ace and Chan which I believe in the book actually the book how SE gets in the book um I think it's I was thinking my memory is is actually quite sexual in the book um but it's also an open relationship so Jan's in an open

33:16 relationship with someone else and then Ace is in on it that's right yeah it's all kind of it's It's touched on very very briefly in the audio but um yeah I think it'd be much more in the book obviously there more space to do that yeah see see Doctor Who is always pushing batteries you pe people concerned about star beast and yeah I mean I hate the term woke I think it's just it's it's it's a throw line for people can't come up with arguments but you know people people criticizing starbeast for a lot of it its content Doctor Who's always pushed the envelope in every form um you know early on even DX was doing and green death and you know doctors always push push the forms you know Margaret

34:01 Thatcher offended people in in um happiness Patrol people can always find things to look at Doctor Who and says pushing the envelope and certainly yeah this is another story which you know at the time you know we we are so and maybe we shouldn't be so Blas but we are so accepting of you know open relationships and things that we we yeah we accept the fact that they happen though at the time it would have been quite shocking I'm sure there would be quite a few parents who wouldn't have been happy if they' seen their kids reading these novels um well they would have thought Doctor Who it's kids stuff it's it certainly was not kid stuff no it it moved a long way as I said I'm no expert on the novels at all I know there's some you much much better people than I one of the other things I think makes it a bit hard as a story for going is just how huge the

34:47 cast are so so many different voices they've actually cast voices very well and the voices are very distinct and different um amazing how many cast members and this only appearing this is this is the only big finish story so when Gary Russell was casting um I should mention mean Gary Russell great director he had been around for a number of years by this stage um because you I noticed that this is this is 2012 and he's back directing yeah Gary's back so I mean Gary's always kept his finger in with galif fray and with Benny because Benny was very much you know his pet Pro we start off and then galifa and once again he's working with Scott which is sort of his Pro a big finish so there is lots of connections there I mean Gary does a wonderful directing job he's he's pulled lots and lots of people who uh

35:33 this is their only story for big finish because I think you know once again that the directors often do the casting and because Gary's been away for a bit I think he's PED in different people he knows from other places um and so he has actually made a very distinct cast of voices and it's it's actually quite a diverse cast in some ways too which which is helpful but it is just a very big cast to get your head around who's who um and you who's alive who's dead I mean the pace at which you go through some characters is hard press you know the the good old big F story where you've got five or six characters at the most I can handle that maybe maybe I was younger again well I was younger 10 years ago um but just listen to it now it it was a very

36:19 complex story with lots of characters how was the Church of vacuum one of the most depressing uh uh fatalistic churches I've ever heard of in my life um there's no point in the life in the universe so let's all go kill ourselves that was uh a very very dark dark concept I thought I was thinking um it's very goth so we don't have much I don't think we have goth anymore do is there such a thing as goth but certainly when this came out oh it's there it's there it's around right ppec when this was being written goth was very popular um you know everyone in black the black ey Shadow and dying their hair black and just you know

37:05 roping about how awful life is you can see Paul Cornell was actually I think picked up on the whole goth feeling in the 90s and put his novel let contined on but yeah it is a yeah a total hopeless uh situation to be in terms of church ches yes so overall I would suggest yes if you're interested in the first Benny introduction or a novel adaptation for that matter it's definitely worth a listen it was the first one they did and they went on to do several more maybe another six or seven after this novels 11 all together oh it was 11 was it okay yes wow that was more than I thought yeah 11 there's quite a selection quite a SE actually that's

37:50 that's quite a lot so yeah definitely definitely check this out um it's probably not my favorite adaptation of of the novels so yeah check out the other novel adaptations um I I would I could definitely recommend those they're all available on the big finish website of course um but was there any any final thoughts on Love and War it's got some deep themes Big Ideas it's a great introduction to Benny I mean had i' forgot the reason why middle never was surprise was because she was to her mother um is not very nice being told you surprised but having put your name is even worse um but yeah no it's it's a it's a nice introduction for Benny it's a sad leaving for Ace um but such a life

38:38 emal very emotional and um but Ace will be back soon she comes back soon she comes back more grown up a few novels later so don't don't despair she's not done with yet but yeah worth a listen but as I said Let's do let's do the Bing SE proper cuz I think think those St even better absolutely all right let's move on to our recommendations just before we finish up the episode and what I'd like to recommend is oh I can't you I've got a list here it says it's your turn philli are you sure I don't mind if you want to go first I know you don't but I can't uh I can't go against my list okay um I have been listening to some radio 2 celebrations for from the universe so

39:25 radio who did a number of um releases and you they're pretty easily available on the web um those of you in the UK which is most of you I think you can get them pretty easily as well um so Doctor Who at 60 there's that's in two parts there's a part that has um it's a sort of a examination of Doctor Who from doctors one to doctors 7 and the cancellation of the series and then from Pagan to to to Modern days they're an hour those are an hour each each section but it's got interviews it's got Snippets of of um previous interviews with people there's some interesting stuff with um William Harner being interviewed and some of that um they're really interesting as well and Toby hok also does a alphabet an a to zed of Doctor Who and he does interesting

40:12 things like um what I think um you get to D You're Expecting D to be dialect but it's not it's I think do not enter um and then you get to e and that's exterminated surprise that's the D one so it's t Toby H style so yeah so if you want to have listen to those and if you search them up you'll find a series of radio programs or coming out to celebrate Doctor Who's 60th and so while we're in that whole anniversary celebration mood I I'd highly recommend them they a good short little listen what about you Dwayne what are you going to recommend I am going to recommend The Once and Future series all seven episodes that are out thus far we still got the the coda to come out next year but the the bulk of the story is out um

40:58 listen to those because in two weeks time you and I philli are going to do a retrospective on those just to give our thoughts on each of the individual episodes so we've got to listen to all of them again so I think everyone else should too well I just finished today I listened to the union for the second time you only just heard it I just no no no I listened to it before but I've listened to all seven in a row in the last week and a half so I've been listening to One at a month mind you I realized as I went through I hadn't listened to the Sylvester McCoy devil one I'm listening to I haven't heard so I downloaded it never listened to it and so that that was a nice that was a nice surprise G one I had listen to but I I really I'm I don't know what is one a

41:43 month at the moment I I forget what's happened the month before and so I wanted to listen to all seven in quick succession and so over the last week and a half I've listened to all seven of them again I've taken notes along the way in terms of oh what what they well because I couldn't remember what they were adding to the story so you know I sort of got to the end of end of the SE run last time and so I thought oh hang on what were the connections and I missed them all so this time I was making sure I was taking notes to actually oh that's how this is connected to that connected to that um but yeah I I certainly have a lot to say about the seven of them um and I'm looking forward to you having what you have to say And discussing them with you well I've got about a week and a half to to them before we record so hopefully I can get

42:28 through them all yeah well with all your holidaying and passing I don't know how you're going to find the time I know believe it or not I'm busy hard I'm busy relaxing all the time it's it's hard to get the time to do it okay so that's in two week's time but next week Phillip we've got a very very special episode coming up and I would like you to introduce that to our listeners oh we're going to let people know yeah let's let them know what they got to look forward to for next week well next week we get to discuss and talk with one of my favorite big fish caign of all time India Fisher so India played Charlie polard with the eighth doctor and is's continued to play and in fact it's been announced today you would have seen maybe if you've been paying

43:13 attention that there's a new eighth doctor story with Conrad westmass as KES and India Fisher as Charlie and as we've already spelled for you at the end of audacity Charlie also comes back so there's a lot more Charlie about to start has been recorded and we had a had a lovely opportunity of for a couple of hours we won't be we won't be playing it all um to sit down with India and chat about life of the Universe and everything so next week India Fisher fantastic looking forward to that one yeah and there will also be a special announcement being made very soon about something happening for people in Australia which they may be able to sort of work out that there's something going to happen early next year but we'll announce this either next

43:59 week or maybe that sounds exciting yeah it is wonder that could be I'm excited I'm very excited I bet you are uh it's been great to have your company today Phillip you know I love your company oh and I love your company too Dwayne thank you so much even with a three-hour time difference now it's weird being in three hours apart isn't it it is anyhow it's almost midnight for you there you go I know my evenings only just beun I know you're looking alive and with it I'm looking like I need to go to bed very good all right until next week with India Fisher we will catch you all next time bye everyone this has been the Sens of audio episode 181 Love and War celebrating 25 years of Professor

44:47 Bernie Summerfield at Big Finnish with your host Philip Edney and Dwayne bunny original theme music composed by Joe Kramer more about us from s of aio.com comment below to let us know what you thought of the episode or contact us via email at Sirens of audio gmail.com or via any one of our socials @ audios Sirens thanks for listening audio files we'll hear you next [Music] time