Perspective: The Controller General of Defence Accounts | 05 July, 2025

0:02 [Music] Namaskar viewers. Hello and welcome to Sunset TV. I'm Tina Ja. You're watching Perspective. At a time when India's defense and security landscape is constantly evolving and with missions like Operation Synindhur highlighting the unmatched precision, speed and coordination our armed forces are capable of, there's a critical but often unseen engine driving it all. The finances that fuel and power every move. With India's defense budget now exceeding 6.81 8 1 lakh cr rupees the amount which was allocated to the ministry of defense in the union budget 2025-26

0:48 managing this vast and complex financial ecosystem has become more vital than ever behind the scenes the defense accounts department ensures that everything from salaries to strategic procurements all of this flows seamlessly one of India's oldest institutions the defense accounts department is now undergoing a digital and strategic transformation information. So today we speak to the man leading this change, Dr. Mayang Sharma, the controller general of defense accounts. Dr. Sharma, it's an absolute pleasure to have you with us on Sensor TV. Welcome to the program. Thank you. Thank you very much. Let's begin our conversation by understanding from you about the functioning of your department first because uh it's one of the oldest institutions under the government of India. It's lived through two and a half centuries. But uh for the

1:36 benefit of us and our viewers give us an overview of the structure and the mandate of the defense accounts department. So like you very rightly said we are one of the oldest departments in the government of India. We trace our history to 1747 278 years old department and originally we started as pay masters but over a period of time our job became more complex and more varied and today we perform four very important functions in the ministry of defense relating to finance. So we do audit internal audit we do accounting and payment and financial advice function. Now we are one of the unique and one of the probably I can say only departments which does all these functions together. So when I talk about

2:22 the first function of financial advice it's not like we are giving a normal financial advice relating to defense procurement or anything. In case of ministry of defense financial advice function is totally integrated with the decision-m process end to end. Mhm. So from stage one of procurement till the time we make payment until the time we place orders the department is totally integrated into the system. So the decision-m process relating to procurement the financial advisers are there as integrated financial adviserss and after the order is placed and payment is made and audit is done then our department comes forward as a controller of defense accounts and these two organs are integrated in a very seamless manner. So that's a very unique uh situation in the case of ministry of defense. When we talk about accounts, accounts doesn't mean just keeping of account. It is accountability. So very

3:09 important part when we are talking about a huge budget of 6.8 lakh cr very accurate timely accounting of all the defense expenditure in a manner which could aid and assist decision-m process. That is what accounting we are talking about in this case. Similarly when we uh talk about payments now in our case payments are of three different types. One is when we do procurement, vendor payment, foreign payment, all those huge payments are involved. That is one kind of uh payment that we make. It's a very technical thing. It's not like a simple payment. You issue a check. There's a lot of audit checks involved. There are lots of checks and balances involved. And then we also make uh payment of pay and losses of all the uh army javans officers soldiers in air force navy uh border roads organ all the organizations

3:56 including our own department did Indian coast guard so we make the payments of salaries and uh except uh in uh case of air force and navy there's a parallel system also uh so where we do audit but uh one part is payment of salaries pay and allows The second part is payment of pension. Now that is a very very huge task because we are making payment of pension to about 32 lakh pensioners all over the country. Now 32 lakh is a very big number. You must understand that the total number of central government pensioners they are about 64 lakhs. 50% of those pensioners belong to us. So that is the kind of payment we make through a highly automated system which is called as spur. And defense pension

4:41 is very complex compared to normal civilian pension because of so many allowances also in defense uh the officers and soldiers they don't retire at the age of 60 they retire before that and therefore you know calculation of pension there are gallantry awards and there are various kinds of allowances so this pension payment itself is a very complex process that we do and uh in this uh whole uh system of making payment we have got specialized organizations which are making these payments. Internal audit is a very important function because government uh the fundamental principle of making any kind of expenditure from government is it has to be followed by an internal audit check. It is compliance audit as well as assurance audit. So two functions audit one is to make sure that whatever payment is made whatever

5:26 expenditure is incurred is as per the policy rules regulations of the government of India so that we do not deviate from the laid down principles. That is number one. Number two very important for audit is also to suggest what kind of improvements we can bring about in the processes in the systems so that those systemic changes can ensure that the process flows seamlessly. So this this these are in very uh briefly uh the four important functions that we perform. Right. I'd like to know in greater detail about some of the initiatives that you've undertaken in recent years in order to perhaps uh make the service delivery more uh efficient and uh transparent for the various stakeholders. But before that just curious to know about your role the role of the department particularly in budget planning and execution. That's an annual

6:13 exercise something that every department looks forward to. So what role does the defense accounts department play particularly in budget planning and then the execution of the annual budget? So the most important role that the defense accounts department because budget planning is done at the level of ministry of defense and ministry of defense finance. So we have a financial adviser who's closely associated with the budget planning and process in the ministry of defense but all the inputs that are required for that including the appropriation accounts which become a part of the budget they are prepared by us. So the defense accounts department does all the compilation real time, accurate, timely and that compilation is converted into appropriation accounts which are an important part of the budget planning and during the year when you're making expenditure it has to align itself totally with the allocation of budget. So controlling of expenditure

6:59 visa v budget allocation is also a very important part that the department plays. So budget in itself is a planning process. We are an integral part of that. Ministry of Defense Finance and Ministry of Defense they do the main allocations but after that the whole process including controlling the expenditure against budget is done by us and appropriation accounts are prepared by us. We've seen that in recent years the defense budget has seen a steady rise. It's grown from uh 2.53 lakh cr rupes back in 20134 to 6.81 lakh cr rupes in 2025 uh26. How does uh the defense accounts department ensure transparency and you mentioned accountability as well and not just maintaining accounts in the defense expenditure if you could explain that to us. So I think that's a very important aspect of this department because we being defense accounts department being

7:45 an external department. Two three functions we perform very carefully. Transparency is the most important thing in order to make the whole system transparent. We have a very highly evolved compilation system, audit system, payment system. But we are taking several new initiatives. They are very big projects that we are going to launch shortly and some of them have already been approved. These systems once implemented will bring about such a massive level of transparency, accountability and they are very futuristic in the sense that till now we are doing an analysis of the budget after expenditure is made. But we are thinking in terms of predictive uh and futuristic analytical tools in order to make sure that the decisions that are made for utilization of resources are more scientifically and management oriented done. So that is what we're

8:32 planning to do. Since you spoke about initiatives that are futuristic in nature, let me have some questions on technology. Uh with India's push towards digital governance, we've just celebrated a decade of uh the digital India initiative. How is your department integrating cutting edge technologies like artificial intelligence, data analytics, automation in the operations, the day-to-day operations of the department? So that for me is a very important question because we are passing through a phase of digital transformation. We have already prepared a road map for digital digital transformation of the department. You must know that our department again is one of the oldest department which started computerization in government. We are one of the oldest. We started long back with Hollith machines and over a period of time we have developed so

9:19 many applications because huge defense expenditure you cannot manage unless you have an automated system but as the demands increase and more and more futuristic requirements are there we are getting into launching some very big projects for end to-end automation and we are going to use artificial intelligence machine learning and data analytics in a very big way so the projects that we have in mind one I have already told you sparse which has already been launched. It's a very very important because through spur we are making payment of pensions. So it's not only payment complete processing from sanction of payment till it is paid. It is all done through spur. It has brought about a lot of transparency. Earlier pensioners they were not aware of their entitlement unless they went to the bank and checked their documents. Today sitting at their

10:05 home they can check everything. We have made the whole system very transparent. The processing time earlier it used to take about 6 months after a person retires to get the whole process completed. Now it hardly takes about a week. Similarly once a pension is sanctioned it used to take about 1 to 3 months in a bank for a pensioner to get his first pension. Now it takes one to two days. Talk to us more about you've me mentioned it a couple of times. So how how is it transforming the life of defense pensioners or who currently are quite significant in number across the country. So two ways uh spur is transforming life. One is the pension budget is 1.6 lakh cr. That is one thing. So you know the quantum of two through spur system we are not only we have not only made the system very transparent, open and accessible to the pensioners sitting at the home but in

10:52 order to make sure that we ensure last mile delivery. We are also doing a lot of contact programs. We are perhaps again one of the very few departments who go to the doorsteps of the pensioners in order to make sure that there are no grievances or problem in case they have any problem we address them on the spot. So what we do is we have already organized more than 206 about 206 uh pension outreach programs. The recent program was done only a few days back in Thrasapali and in these programs we go to different uh states, districts, all the corners of the country and we meet the pensioners, we resolve their problems on the spot and we try to see that you know any kind of problem that they're facing are not repeated. That is one way of looking at it and second is that uh in this whole process we have also established a large

11:39 number of pension centers in the country. So we have our own spur centers about 200 where pensioner can come and the grievances can be resolved. We have community service centers more than four lakh Indian postal banks and then also we've gotus with about 16 banks. So that's the kind of network that we are creating all over the country to make sure that the defense pensioners they don't face any problem. Another very good thing about spur is that you must have heard about or one rank one pension. Now this is a very complex exercise. Unless you had a totally automated system, you couldn't have done it in a record time. Today whenever Orop is announced within a few days, we do complete calculation and make payment in the bank of an pensioner. So that is very satisfying. I think that's one of the very satisfying things for me to see smile on the face of a pensioner. In

12:25 fact, it's satisfying to hear that a lot is happening behind the scenes and we are glad to hear uh how things have transformed in recent years. Let me also uh talk about the armed forces and the vendors who also are significant stakeholders. So uh what steps have been taken in recent years to improve this kind of service delivery as well which includes the other stakeholders that I just mentioned the service to the armed forces and at the same time the various vendors who are part a crucial part of the defense ecosystem. So we do it in two ways. One is a normal management process through we continue to monitor that the payments are made in time nobody has any problem. We continue to monitor the deadlines, the timelines throughout the country. So payments are made basically by 31 controller offices spread all over the country. They make payment under these controller offices.

13:11 There are sub offices. So there's a large network of offices which are making these payments. All the foreign payments they are made from Delhi. There is an office in Delhi which is called as principal control of defense accounts New Delhi. Then we have certain specialized offices also. That is how we do this. But in order to make sure that the system is further streamlined recently a very very ambitious project has been approved by honorable Rakshamantri G. This is called as sampuna. Now sampuna is a totally automated end-to-end procurement and payment processes. So three again through this process also we are making the whole system very open and transparent to all the stakeholders. We prefer to call them partners including the vendors. So we are trying we once the project is implemented the vendors will also be to totally onboarded into the system. They can track complete

13:57 transaction once they raise an invoice till the time payment is made. They can realtime basis they can track where the things are moving. So there is no opacity at all. And again as I said this is one major project that we are going to launch shortly in some time which will be using artificial intelligence, machine learning and data analytics for futuristic and predictive decision-m process. So from controllers we are trying to move towards collaborators with all these stakeholders including defense services, vendors and us. So from being uh an organization which was inward looking we are trying to go outward looking and become a part of the strategic management process. So we want to become strategic enablers. That is the kind of direction in which we are

14:42 moving. Something uh interesting that I found during the course of my research was also uh the role that uh the dad plays in managing the financial aspects of the UN peacekeeping missions. So India has been a major contributor of course to the UN uh peacekeeping forces. Talk to us about the specific role that the defense accounts uh department has been playing over the years in managing the financial aspects of these missions that India is particularly very very proud of. Yes. Yes. Yes. uh I think you're quite aware that we are one of the largest contributors in the UN peacekeeping missions and the major role is played by by the defense services but we provide a very very important support service in terms of financial management so an ID officer is posted in these UN miss our officers they are also going

15:28 with the defense services on UN missions and they are ensuring accountability and payment in a very accurate and timely fashion not only to the soldiers who are posted there the officers who are posted there. But also there's another important aspect because when you deal with UN there has to be very high degree of professionalism, high degree of transparency, accuracy, timeliness ensuring that and also making sure that the reimbursement that we have to get from the UN they are done in time. So we have to maintain those high standards of UN uh which they require from any financial manager or accountant uh in order to make payment to us. In fact, I did think about the challenges that your department must be facing in reimbursement and accounting challenges that arise in the UN missions. So, how do you tackle these challenges? So, one

16:15 is that the officers who are posted there, they're highly trained. They're highly trained, motivated and they're connected, their umbilical cord is connected to us in Delhi all the time. So, any kind of challenges, they are challenges of course. So, those kind of challenges are have to be addressed on real-time basis and that we always do. So I think we I take pride in being head of a department where we handle all these problems in a very very highly professional and scientific manner in a very timely manner. So those challenges for us are actually opportunities and we look forward to having more such opport opportunities always. Another big opportunity coming your way is the controllers conference 2025. It's being uh hailed as a landmark event for the department per se. So uh could you share with us how this conference over the years has evolved now as a platform for

17:01 strategic dialogue and innovation within the defense ecosystem in the country? Controllers conference is a very very important event. It's a banial event which you do and all the field controllers and our principal integrated financial advisers, financial advisers, they all assemble in Delhi and uh over a period of two or three days we do a complete thorough analysis of what we've done in the last one year, what more needs to be done, what are the challenges, what kind of management problem we have to deal with and how to reorient our department in order to meet the expectations of the government. So that is the normal thing we do. But this year's controllers conference is going to be very very historic. Why? Because as I said we are a 278 year old department. Last year uh on our

17:47 foundation day which is 1st of October honorable Raka Mantri GI gave us a mandate. He said that from defense finance now you have to prepare a road map to make your department a center of excellence for defense finance and economics. Now what does it mean by that? It's a very very profound statement. When we talk about defense finance, it is defense finance, accounts, payment and we do our work which I've already explained. When we talk about defense finance and economics, this is a very very new idea. Why? Because we are now going to do an economic impact analysis of defense expenditure. It's a very important thing. Why? When we spending a an amount of 6.8 8 lakh cr that amount has a lot of multiplier effect on the economy of the country in terms of employment generation taxation collection in terms

18:34 of support to MSMES startups regional development statewise distribution now this is a new kind of study so we are a department which are trained and which are we are expert in this matter but we had never thought about doing economic function so 7th of July we'll have this controllers conference that day uh a vision document of the department would be released and complete realignment of department from defense finance to defense finance of economics is going to take place which for us is a very very historic moment. Does that broader uh shift in the scope and operation of the department also explain the theme this year which is transforming financial advice payment audit and accounting through defense finance and economics. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. That's the idea because economic imple impact

19:21 analysis the multiplier effect of defense expenditure on there's a very very modern concept and not a modern concept actually it's happening uh in some countries but the way we want to do about it in a very institutionalized manner. So four different things we'll be doing and in a government department when I when I'm going to make this statement even to me it sounds very profound. We are going to bring bring about a massive structural change in the department. Institutional change in the department, technological change in the department, process orientation is going to change. And in order to make all these changes possible, the biggest thing that we have to do is to bring about a cultural change. And in order to make that cultural change, we have to totally reorient our capacity building program, our HR policies. So we we have already prepared the blueprint for all

20:07 this including training capacity building in order to make sure that we move in a very integrated fashion in this direction. We'll start taking the baby steps and I hope that in next few years we'll emerge as one of the pioneers of defense finance of economics and government. So in that context uh you know since you speak about transformation at various levels uh there is this revised defense accounts code which talks about major modernization of financial procedures within the department. So how do you envision uh it reshaping and defi redefining financial governance especially in terms of uh three three aspects compliance governance and operational efficiency. Defense accounts code is a departmental code there. It's a very basically what does it mean? It means codification of all the accounting

20:53 principles and processes that we follow. Now I have I have already explained to you the defense accounting is not a simple accounting process. Payments are happening all over the country. Smallest of locations farthest you know people from north to east to south to west we have got our offices location they located there to bring them together and in order to make sure that all these more than 1,400 offices they work in unison on the basis of same principle. We've got a defense account code. Over a period of time, lots of changes have happened and those changes used to be issued in the forms of amendment. What we've done now is we have completely codified it again on modern lines, modern lines of accounting in order to make sure that all the principles are totally designed towards futuristic requirements of the department and they

21:40 meet the requirement of management also the meet of requirement of realtime decision-m. the controllers conference you will have significant deliberations and discussions how do you see them impacting the long-term uh financial strategy at the same time the operational readiness of India's defense sector so as I said this year's controllers conference is going to be very different from the way we normally used to conduct it earlier this year's controllers conference is totally conceptual totally strategic all the sessions we've got eight sessions we have invited thought leaders on different topics and subjects from outside the department also. So the concept paper the vision document has been prepared by us by forming committees our own officers. So all these officers they they have done a lot of work to study the environment and to

22:27 see which are the latest requirements which should be met and this vision document is ready but the deliberations when they happen we are going to talk about what we are going to do but we are also going to hear from the experts from external sector. So we are going to hear from industry as you said partnership with industry we are going to hear from academia we are going to hear from thought leaders in various areas and they are going to talk about the concepts uh what that we are going to discuss and after that we'll prepare a final paper in order to decide what strategic direction we are going to move and that is finance and economics I've already told you you know since you've explained uh to us how the changes have happened and what's the need of the hour it certainly does underline that we are at an inflection point uh in terms of defense and public finance. Uh what are

23:14 your top priorities in the next two to three years both for the department and uh for the wider defense ecosystem? I would say one word which will define everything. Complete transformation from the way we used to do things earlier to the way we want to do things now. Total transformation. It is our functional transformation. It is our structural transformation. It is our process transformation. It is our digital transformation. Everywhere we are going to talk about total transformation one, two, total reorientation. The whole service is and the department will be reoriented towards defense, finance and economics. And when we say defense, finance and economics, it's more of a professional approach rather than a bureaucratic approach. You would see that uh uh the

24:01 way we have designed the whole concept of this department moving uh in the future direction we are going to change into a totally dynamic department a living organism an organization which means with the changing times we have to continuously adapt and change ourselves in a manner that we are able to meet the requirements and the challenges of the times. So are these the reforms that you're also championing as CGDA to make uh the defense accounts department a future ready organization? Absolutely. That is something which must happen. Time has come. It has to happen and I'm sure it'll happen. Okay. Uh so as India's defense landscape grows more dynamic and uh all the need of the R is to uh create a more agile environment. Uh I think the transformation of defense finance is not something that we can

24:47 expect to happen in future. It's the need of the R. It's already happening. There's a Phillip that's needed and perhaps uh uh the CGDA has spoken to us about how several initiatives that have been undertaken and that that will be announced in the days to come will perhaps take care of those changes which are required. Thank you uh Dr. Sharma for joining us with those details. So to a common uh person like me, it may appear that uh defense accounts is backend work but it's not actually. there's so much happening behind the scenes and so seamlessly that one doesn't even notice but thank you for the commendable work that your department is uh doing and wish you the very best in bringing about the change that uh you want to see and that you've just spoken to us about. So with that it's a wrap on this conversation. Thank you once again for joining us on the

25:33 program. To you viewers, thank you very much for your time as well. Thank you. [Music] To watch more programs of Sunset TV, subscribe to our YouTube channel and don't forget to like and share them.