0:00 Good week everyone and welcome to another episode of the Boundaries of Logic podcast. Today we have Barry Katz with us, who is not only a communications expert, he is the man who teaches people and organizations how to talk themselves into success. For over 20 years, he has been working with large companies, businesses, and individuals, teaching how to convey a message accurately, authentically, and effectively, whether in front of an audience, in a relationship, or in the conference room. In this episode we're going to talk about what we all do all the time, communicating. How do we do it better in a world that never stops changing? What is it, Barry? Hey, what's up? Did you like the opening? I liked it very much. It's a revelation that Pithi's chat wrote this and I told you to leave it alone, don't touch it. It's just that he does a good job. Does a good job. beauty. How fun to have you here. I was waiting a long time for this episode. Me too. We had
0:48 delays and you are a very busy person and you flew to the world and I was in the world and I'm glad it's finally happening . I've heard a lot of good things about you and I have to say this, to give you some really positive feedback. You communicate, which is really good, as if that's what you do, and people see it and feel it in your messages on the phones without knowing you face-to- face. I felt it in the way you write down the messages. How pleasant it is, how flattering it is, how flattering you are to me, while I don't know. I felt like I was only connecting with you through WhatsApp messages. Thank you. You understand what I'm talking about, right? I understand. Yes, but I think it's mandatory. If you are a good communicator, then you can't say I am a good communicator at work or I am a good communicator in relationships. This is something that requires you in every interface, every touch. I
1:37 even bought something in the United States and two salespeople simply raved about her service, attention, and taste. And then suddenly her eyes filled with tears and she said to me, "Do you know you're the first person who's been nice to me today?" Wow. And that excited her. Now I couldn't tell, but you meet strangers and if you pay attention to them you see them. So for her at that moment it was very significant. Maybe something went wrong with her this morning, but it's just being aware of the media. So admit that you say that, but they say that those who are sensitive feel, so even to recognize it says no less about you than about me.
2:27 Thank you very much. Thank you, I also mean I also received feedback from other people who recommended that I evaluate you, whether it's Doron Litian and whether it's Reut Lester who does the podcast, and if it's not, do you know Keren Aluf? Yes, that's you. Then we talked about my lecture and that's how I was communicating with her. And then she told me if there was one person I could recommend. There aren't many good ones in the country. But if you want to refine your lecture, talk to Brick. Wow, what an honor. It's really flattering. It's exciting to hear. I'm also telling you this so that you understand what kind of echo you're making, because many times we don't. You know, as someone who makes podcasts, I just talked about it in the previous episode. I influence tens of thousands of people. We've reached over a million views. You don't feel it. You don't experience it on a daily basis. I'm not. It's all digital. But when someone comes and tells me how much influence I've had or how much change I've made, I understand why I
3:13 do what I do. It gives us a sense of meaning and value. How are you? How do you respond to being complimented? Wow, that's a good question. I say, I say, I'm very like that, you know. I'm a little embarrassed I say thank you a and this is very much appreciated yes yes because some women are embarrassed to hear good things about themselves there is the thing of enough keep going so on the one hand it doesn't please me on the one hand I want to hear more yes so I think really no not to wave and not to minimize and not to cancel learn to accept Nachman to say thank you very much this is the reason I do what I do what you told me now is very significant to hear or I worked on it a lot or the team
4:02 and I worked on it a lot so thank you for noticing this yes these are really things that knowing how how to also receive compliments in a good way reminds me of my mother-in-law My mother-in-law cooks for Friday dinners and she cooks amazing and every time I give her a compliment on the food no no no lack of salt or no I didn't succeed I tell her it tastes good to me no but lack of cream it's not good no didn't succeed not the painter. I tell her, you know what? Leave it alone, I'll keep eating. A. Okay, Barry, I want to know. If you had to combine everything you do in life into one mission, how would you describe it? I call it Born to do, literally Born to do. And that is discovering your gift.
4:47 And we summed it up in three words. People communicate results. And I will explain. I really like people, people are very interesting to me. From a very, very young age. I'm curious about how people interact, why there are people we meet and there's an immediate connection and attraction, and there are those who you immediately say, "She or he doesn't get along with me," and it happens in a second. So people, if people, then communication. I'm not objective. I think communication is the greatest gift that we can all use. By the way, we can all improve our communication, and if we create better communication, we will create
5:32 better relationships, and relationships produce results. So those who want to focus on results should focus on people, and those who want to focus on people should focus on beautiful communication. Wow, that's amazing. Do you think that communication is something that is ingrained or that there is also an innate element to it? Think that it is both and, like many things, it is both and, you see children very much. How many of your children are six and four? Six and four. What do you admire about them in terms of their communication skills? Wow, my eldest daughter is very intelligent, very good at expressing herself, very good at standing up for a question, very good at convincing me. Wow, she's a champion at this. She knows exactly how to make people talk. The power of persuasion is a champion at this.
6:22 My son, on the other hand, is more emotional. He knows how to touch my emotions better. She knows how to convince me, he knows how to tell me the thing that will make me say, well, well, okay, okay, like this. So she appeals to your logic more and he appeals to your emotion more. yes. And it's probably innate, it's something that's in their DNA. It could be some kind of ability, even if it's them in front of their friends, how they behave. There are always the children who are the most prominent, the people who produce leaders, and there are people who rally around them. So I think it's also an innate ability and it's certainly something that can be developed. I've personally spoken with people who had a real fear of crowds, and
7:08 there are biological, psychological, physiological phenomena that can be there, and they learned to overcome it. You know, I always talk about the tortoise and the hare competition, where in the end the tortoise beat the hare. why? Because you know this children's story? Tell me. First of all, it's Tzo's courage to announce that he's competing with the rabbit, because it's clear that the rabbit is much faster than him. So first of all, the Kendo thing, why shouldn't I compete? What happened was that the hare also knew that he was much faster, so he was very clever and he was very quick, he even took him in a race. So what really happened was that they started running and the hare caught up with him after a few kilometers,
7:55 and then he got a little tired and said, "I have such a big advantage, I'll rest a little." Then the tortoise slowly moved forward. The hare was sleeping under a tree. He saw the tortoise passing him. He opened one eye. He said, " I can easily catch up with him." And in the end, he woke up too late and the tortoise won the race. Not because he was faster. So there are people who, even if they weren't born with it, some people are born leaders. So there are born leaders, but there are people who, due to circumstances, become leaders, or I even call it born-in-the-moment leaders. It wasn't their dream, it wasn't something they intended, but a context was created and suddenly they found themselves. As someone who leads a process or leads an idea, then of course
8:45 anyone listening who thinks I don't have it, then I'll tell you, think again. There is no person who doesn't ask themselves several times in their life who I am and what I was meant to do. To help you find answers, I created a free questionnaire that works on artificial intelligence, takes all your answers, analyzes them, and sends you a summary that will help you understand today who you were meant to be and practical actions to start making it a reality. A gift from me to you. This is a simple tool to help you understand what to focus on. It takes a few minutes and it could be the most meaningful gift you give yourself. So why not try? It's free. Fill in your details, answer the questions, and receive the summary directly to your email. You
9:32 can find the link below in the bio or story. Good luck to you. If you had to choose one moment in your career when you realized the true power of communication, what would it be? I don't think there was one moment that stood out to me, there are many little moments where you see people's faces fall , where you suddenly look at something you've always looked at and suddenly you see it differently. I'll give you an example, I also do personal training. My most successful workouts are the workouts where I talk less, and there was one workout where I just kept quiet and listened, but that's active listening, and active listening is more tiring than talking,
10:19 and while I was talking, she said, and then I did this and he answered me this and then I told him this, but maybe I didn't understand him correctly, maybe what he told me was what I should have done. Thank you very much, you helped me, and I really didn't say anything. So the power is really in listening to another person, the ability to make them fight in opposing positions where at first there is no common ground, there is conflict, there is validation, and to find some way that both sides come out satisfied. So there's a lot of satisfaction in seeing people discover themselves, discover their abilities, see things they haven't seen before. And then there's the haha, this moment, like
11:08 you see it in movies, like a tin can, like a light bulb goes on in your head. I really, really love these moments. It reminds me of a part of me right now, signing a rental contract, and from a young age I was taught to get the best price to bargain. My father always did that and you always have to come out on top, and it was ingrained in me, and in this contract he offered me a price. I told him what can I pay? And he gave me an offer in kind of the middle, maybe a little more. And my automatic was not enough, I need more. And then there was another voice, another voice that was built over the years, from what you're talking about, to find the
11:54 equal ground, to find this thing. All he said to me is, listen, this is going to be your landlord. You'll argue with him now about a little more. You want to start on the wrong foot right now. So pay this extra. And maybe later you'll ask for a discount. I mean, get the other side involved in the conversation, not just ourselves. It's critical. You know, it's so important. Your father's voice is like that. And he also thinks it's something very Israeli. Not on the sucker's side. Yes, don't go out. Sucker. They lowered the floor price for him. I don't want to work with someone who loses. I don't want to, because let's say a contractor, right? So you lower the price to a lower level than he wanted, where he will use inferior materials, he will prioritize work that pays him more, he will start to pile up and disappear. I'm definitely in favor of both sides leaving with
12:43 a feeling that they're winning. I have an interest in you, if you are working with me, if you are my partner in some way, my interest is that you profit. yes. How big a gap do you think there is between how we think we communicate and the message that is actually conveyed? Anyone who knows me knows that I love to ask one-word questions that are always true and it depends. What size is the bull hanging? A lot of times what you think you're saying is not what people think they're hearing. So how many times do you think you explained it perfectly? I think I understood it perfectly and there is no connection between what you said and what I
13:29 heard. So I think first of all, nursing is about the one who conveys the message. If you didn't understand me, I didn't communicate it well enough. I think the sentence "You misunderstood me" is fundamentally wrong. If you are, it's like in basketball where nursing is about morality. So if you didn't understand me, it's because I didn't understand who you are. I didn't understand your ability or desire to listen to me, and I didn't communicate it in a way that would be easy for you to understand. So I encourage people to take responsibility for their communication. I ask them to make a receiving hand. Don't assume that just because no one asked you, it means there are no questions. So sometimes there's a huge gap because when you
14:16 speak you have a feature in your head that I call autople. You complete things in your head that you don't say because you know them, but I'm listening to you. Wait a minute. How did you get from here to there? So take nurses to your communications. Don't assume that people interpret it as you intended. And to what extent? I think the genius of communications is to convey a message that is so clear, simple, and focused that it is not open to different interpretations. There is no other way to understand it, except the way you intended. And that takes effort, it takes awareness, it takes work. It's even choosing the right words that has so much power
15:02 in words. People are not always aware of their choice of words. Talking about messages. I think the message here is very, very strong and clear and I want to repeat it to all the listeners because this is we are not talking here just about a business or about standing on a stage we are talking here about relationships we are talking here about children we are talking here about companies communication communication is even people on the street or on the road how significant it is and how many times we accuse the other side of not understanding us I think about myself you know I am very mindful about this thing about what you are saying I have an online business that has 40 employees for nine years we have been running them over the years I understood the importance of this and I have worked on it and I still notice places where I fall because they do n't understand me I think they don't understand me but actually I don't say okay how can I
15:49 explain myself better so that everyone understands what happens to this baby pro or idiot pro who as if every person listening to this now can understand what I meant yes exactly exactly it is not easy I even though I have so much experience I still fall into it I still sometimes communicate in a way that is not clear enough. How do you bridge this gap? First of all, it is awareness that there is such a gap. Don't say, "Oh, I meet, I present excellently, I communicate excellently." Are you really sure? A. So A. Be aware that there is awareness of violence and domestication related to the other side. So if I see that you are a hero, let's say I have an email for you and you don't respond, or maybe something in
16:35 the way I wrote it was interpreted in a way that created the success of the response, so let's be attentive to this thing, and you know even when you contact someone who provides a service, how do you request a service? You demand it or you request it, so pay attention to the way you address it, how you request it, and receive feedback from people around you, how I am, what did you hear, and what did you actually hear me say? Then I might understand that what you heard is not, not at all, because maybe we can give it an example that people can connect to, let's say, a certain way that I can convey a message that is not good at spreading or is unclear, compared to a way that is very clear and good and will be pleasant to the other side as well. If
17:23 I say, I wanted to let you know, or I thought you would like to know now, if I wanted to let you know, I am the important one, and I want to let you know, but if I say, Idan, I thought you would like to know that this is happening or that you would be interested in knowing, then you are in the focus, not me. If we use people's names, then if I, if we are in a meeting, and I say, he said, but he is sitting in the room, there is If there was an era he said or when an era I agree with the era of using people's names there, you have to help me, you can help me, so come to the question, come from a place that respects the
18:09 other side, I think if you give me a specific context, I can give you examples, is there something specific that you're thinking about? Yes, I'm trying to think. You know, you're reminding me of the book How to Win Friends and Influence People, by Dale Carnegie. Yes, what a great book. Yes, that's exactly what he's talking about. You know, it was written something like 80 years ago and they still teach it today because it's relevant. This was a book when I studied coaching eight years ago. It was part of the syllabus. I read this book and did some summarizing. I remember how significant it was because I realized how much power my words have and how I say my words and what impact I can have on people and the world just by the way I convey the message. It's interesting. There are also books like Habits of Highly Effective People.
18:54 These are books that were written many, many years ago and I was paid about communication. It's still relevant. So I think there's something like tradition and innovation. There are things that are kind of a legacy that are always right. I mean, the ability to listen. What was right 100 years ago will be right in 100 years because listening is critical. Emotional intelligence, empathy, the ability to be authentic. I think these are things that don't change over time. These are the kinds of values that you don't know how they come to be. So it is, for example, authenticity. So if a few years ago I met you and I knew that this is you today
19:40 and in the future, I don't know if it's you or if it's a fake, if it's an app or a bot or a real person, then Authenticity is still maintained in its importance, but how will it be expressed? I think it changes technologically, but you wanted to give an example. You started talking about an example. Yes, I'm trying to think of an example that the listeners connected to. Something from today. Come on, you know what? Let's even take the apartment. Let's close a lease. I now want to take an apartment and the owner of the apartment just wants, for example, 10,000 and I want 8,000. Yes, how would I present it to him in a way that would touch him and make him maybe come towards me? Okay, so I would say, listen, I really appreciate you and the apartment and the property you have.
20:26 I also have my own budgetary considerations. So we may not reach an agreement. There is such a possibility, but my goal is to really reach a deal that will pay off for you and that will be possible for me as well. So on the level of narrowing down my intentions and also on the level that I'm not going to this apartment because I'm checking out other things. I would be happy if it were with you, but if not, I'll be upset. If it's not, we won't be able to reach anything. So if you come to a place that is not mine, you come to a place that sees it, that's one thing. And then I'll ask him, really, I'll even say, what's the best price you can give me? What price would you feel comfortable with? Or a price you can live with peacefully that is closer to
21:15 my budget and possibilities. So, try to understand what is important to him. I mean, you're not some single guy who's going to have parties and celebrate, and we're a family. We really take care of things. If you're starting to understand, if I ask you, what's important to a homeowner, or if you know him, what's important to him, yes, it's clear that they'll take care of his house, that he's quiet with the neighbors, that the payments will arrive on time. You want to be such an exemplary tourist, so how can you sell yourself, portray yourself as someone who's attractive to him? And part of that is saying, I see you, I notice how much you've invested here, I see the quality of the
22:02 materials, I really like the design, which is exactly you. All sorts of things you can say that make him feel like you're not just focused on yourself and that you also see him and understand his needs. And that you will be the ultimate tenant who deserves you. In short, listen, first of all, you already gave me a good feeling because that's pretty much what I did. excellent. So I guess I have a little bit of experience conveying messages and stuff, but not from a place of knowing how to sell him something wrong, but really from a place of seeing him. I really tried to see it and understand it and apparently it worked for me right now. A I think that this is also the secret of sales in general and of negotiation to see the other side and
22:48 understand their needs, right? I think that first of all what you said just now is that you said that it gave you a good feeling, not because I taught you something new, but because I reinforced something that you already do, and I think that many times it is our job as coaches to also reinforce what is already there, not to feel that if I don't teach you something new, then I have no value, that's not right. So I'll tell you, listen, what you did is exactly what needs to be done and it's a fact that it has the right results. Yes, what you asked me at the end was something you asked. A I didn't talk about it being the secret of sales, a dedicated salesperson. So yes, I wanted to say that the best salespeople don't look like salespeople.
23:36 I have a feeling that there's one of those sitting across from me because you don't look like a salesperson, but somehow you succeed. We all sell all the time. Yes, but the way you manage to convince me and sell me everything here, we all sell all the time. Okay, so we talked about how to gain friends and influence. Um, how do I get out now? Let's step outside the apartment and the contract for a moment, and in general, to every person who listens to us and experiences it on a daily basis, whether it's with the children, the family, at work, the boss, etc. How do we really create a connection, empathy, and influence through our communication? Oh, there's a saying that I really like in Judaism: Enoch to the river according to his own path. Great sentence. You've already talked about the difference between your daughter and son, that one is more emotional, one is
24:22 more logical. So I think the best way is not just what I want to say and what I want to achieve. The first question is who am I facing? Who am I facing? Who am I talking to? What is important to them? What are their priorities? Where does it hurt them, where are their values? If I want to convince you and there's something about persuasion and influence that are two different words, how do you differentiate between persuasion and influence? Persuasion feels like force to me, and influence feels like something more flowing and natural. Okay? So your podcast influences a lot of people you don't even know. You will never know who they are. yes.
25:07 You will also never know how what you say and what you do changes their lives but you know it happens. So sometimes we also do what we do in TED talks or in lectures that go online on Instagram or TikTok. We address a very, very wide audience that we don't know. We do know what interests them, what hurts them, what their needs are, and the moment you bring value to other people, it makes all the difference. So, the emphasis here is not what I can get from you, but what I can give
25:52 you. And then there's some kind of law of reciprocity, meaning if I listen to you, you'll be more willing to listen to me. If I want to receive a gift from you for my child, then I have to give you a gift for your child first. So, it's giving first. And by the way, the best time to ask for something is after you give something. I see in workshops we hand out sheets of paper and then I tell them now that I have given you something I want to ask you for something so one participant immediately takes the journal and the paper don't ask me for anything but what I ask for should be proportional to what I gave so when I say I have
26:40 given you the paper and my request is that you use it and write down things that are important for you to remember I cannot give you something that is small and ask for something big in return. So there needs to be a balance between giving and asking. So basically what you're telling me is that in order for me to communicate better and connect with people and also influence people, I need to first and foremost see the person and understand who is standing in front of me. yes. It's not easy, it's not easy, it's not easy to do it all the time. I mean, if I have an important meeting right now , you know, a deal, then I can stop for a moment, think, plan. I won't start making plans now. I meet my kids right after kindergarten or I'm with my wife or I met a
27:27 friend or I met this person and suddenly something comes to mind, I'm like I need to, I think about it, I need to learn to turn this into a skill that comes naturally to me. So it starts first with a conscious choice that it's important to me, that it's something I want to do, and then it's starting to look for signs, even starting small. You know that the root of selling is selling, it's about knowing, but it's also about knowing. So in order to sell, you have to get to know how I can sell if I don't first know. So even when you meet a person, take a moment to look at him, maybe we'll call him The Sandal, maybe he's
28:12 just a. I understand. Take a moment to look at a person and see him. Be in observation with people who are terribly busy with themselves. It's all about me, me, me, me, so they do n't see the person in front of them. And if you don't see the person in front of you, how can you connect with him? The heart node. I gave that woman in the store a night. It wasn't because I was preparing. It wasn't because I planned. It was simply an interaction with a person that I'll never see again. But I was present and I was in observation and I was aware. I actually have to practice it too so that it becomes automatic. You've been practicing this for many years. A You do it too. I know I
28:58 you know I'm talking about when I say I I'm also talking about the listeners. I'm talking about everyone, everyone who is listening now and wants to start implementing this thing in life because they understand that this is the way. Whether it's because they want to achieve something or whether it's simply because they want to be a better person . You know, I think the issue of presence is being present in the moment. The Power of the Moment If you've read the book, yes, most people are present absent. What is present absent? I'm physically in the room with you, but I'm on the phone. I'm in my thoughts. I'm distracted. I'm thinking about what's in my next meeting. And if we're not fully present, we miss out on a lot of opportunities to connect with people, understand people, get to know people. And it's also legitimate to say that I don't feel like it.
29:47 yes. But then it comes from a conscious choice that I am currently choosing not to be present. There is something else that interests me more. But not to be both. That means not saying I'm here but actually I'm not here. Wow, that reminds me. You know, at the end of the day, my wife and I are sitting in the living room and suddenly something important comes to mind. I tell her and she's on the phone and it's driving me crazy. It drives me crazy that a person is on the phone and talking to me. I tell her, "Mom, I'm like this and that, and I'm like that, yes, yes." I tell her to put the phone down. I am sharing with you. No no I'm listening I'm listening I say you're not listening to me put down the phone so a I understand what you're saying and the importance of it but Phil you would ask a letter this is a good time now exactly great so so what am I doing today I don't blame her for that I
30:32 understand right now she's doing something she needs to do to prepare for it I have something important to tell them talking about proper communication about this I have something important to tell you I want you to listen to me leave it for a moment everything it's important for me to share with you and hear your opinion something like that or even tell her when you're done with the phone I have something interesting to tell you. It's nice to sell it to her. Yes, beautiful. She leaves the phone at that moment. Once and for all, how do you give a person feedback correctly that won't hurt them and will still help them implement? First of all, ask them if they even want to hear the feedback? Just because I have something to tell you does n't mean you want to hear it and the word feedback is also why who are you to
31:18 give me feedback. Let's say at work you're not my manager, but if I come to you and say, "Idan, I can talk to you about what happened in yesterday's meeting" or "Idan, I noticed something in our last meetings, in our last conversations that bothers me, I can share it with you." So I would n't even be the one talking about "I want to give you feedback," but saying "I want to share something I feel or something I noticed." Is this a good time? Do you want to hear? It is important to accept this position. Don't automatically explode because I have something, I have feedback for you. Okay? So that's the first thing. The second thing I would separate people into behavior. I wouldn't say you're not listening to me. A. It annoys me that you're on your phone all the time or I feel like you're ignoring me
32:04 . But if you were to come and tell her, you know, when I talk to you and you tell me, I'm listening to you, but at the same time you're also on the phone, I feel like you're not really listening to me, or you're half listening to me and it makes me feel unimportant, it makes me feel like I'm not interesting to you or that my stories don't interest you. So if I can ask if it's really not a good time then tell me it's not a good time and if it is if I don't need 100% of your heart node then I'll tell you that so if I'm this for a real model one is to ask permission two is to describe the
32:51 situation in the meeting that was yesterday in our conversations when I talk to you and you're on the phone all the time I feel like I can't say you're not listening to me, I feel like you're not listening to me. No, you are not a professional. When you don't do that, my experience is that you are being disrespectful, that people are not always aware of their consequences. I mean, so when you don't answer my email on time, it delays the whole project. Or until you get back to me, the client doesn't get a response. Now you don't understand, so I did n't answer you that day, nothing happened. Yes, but until you answer me, the consequences of this are that it delays the entire project or the client doesn't get an
33:36 answer. So here's the behavior, here's the impact of the behavior because people aren't always aware of how their behavior is interpreted and what it affects. And the last part is to come up with a proposal. So so that this does n't happen or so that we can prevent this now, we either need to be distracted, what can we do so that we don't end up in the same place every time, or come up with a proposal. So maybe don't send me an email, pick up the phone and explain to me that the power is waiting. Maybe it's not a good time now, maybe you can ask someone else, but try to reach some kind of agreement because I think feedback is a gift, it's really a gift, and feedback just
34:23 needs to be something that improves future behavior. If I give you feedback that you have nothing to do with, then I'm not helping you. And feedback is not criticism. It's always about whether what I'm going to say to Idan can help Idan. And the feedback can also say, maybe you didn't notice, but the way you spoke was excellent, that slide was excellent. You make lovely eye contact, your smile really touches my heart. So it can say the positive things that people may not be aware they are doing. They do it intuitively. So I guess it's the compliments and then there are the recommendations. So conservation is an improvement. This is what you do well and this is what makes you better. It's not positive or negative. It's not
35:11 good or bad. No bad feedback. No negative feedback. All feedback is good because it is intended to improve. It is designed to create awareness. Designed to give people a chance. There is feedback at work and there are many managers who think it is unnecessary or a headache because there is the ongoing feedback every day, but occasionally we stop and once or twice a year we zoom in, look at the big picture and ask what is the best way forward, and this can be mutual feedback. Not only a manager to a subordinate, the subordinate can also give feedback to his manager who can help him. Yes, and if you need something, ask for it. That means sometimes in a
35:56 relationship. If we've been living together for a long time, I can say, but you already know me. You already know that it's important to me or why I have to ask you to do it every time. And I think the expectation that people will understand us without us explaining ourselves is a bit naive. So if you need spice, ask for spice. If you want support, ask for support. And also what kind of support is this? In English, there are three AJs. Someone tells me about a problem or pain. This is something I learned. Do you want to be heard? Do you want to be hugged? Or do you want to be helped? Because sometimes I just need you to hear me. This is it. I do n't need anything. Sometimes I want the
36:43 hug that supports the empathy. I understand. It's hard, it sucks, and sometimes it's help. Come on, how do we solve this? What, how can I help? Now people don't always want me to tell you a problem, sometimes I just want to share it with you. It's not like I'm inviting you to solve it for me now, is it? So that's it, and we as Israelis automatically want to solve problems as Israelis and as men. Men really like to solve things. yes. And sometimes people just want a hug. They just want whether it's a physical hug or a virtual hug. They just want someone to hear them because they're not, they're not looking now. Let's give them a way to solve it. So that's part of the feedback. It's part of saying, this is what I am. It's also feedback. Like we said, we all sell all
37:28 the time. I think all the time, the issue of feedback. And if you hear the words, feedback is something that's very nourishing. There's also feed forward, not just feed back. The ED. How does it promote people? So don't think about why I'm giving feedback. So if you see someone doing something good, tell them. If you have an idea that could be better, suggest it to them. But I think feedback also builds trust. It's very important in any personal or business relationship. And it also reinforces the good things because people aren't always aware of it. A lot of times I get feedback. People tell me, "Well, you
38:13 helped me a lot." Really beautiful. how? And then they remind me of something that I don't even remember saying . I said, I said it. Sounds very smart to me, but I don't remember saying that. And through the feedback, it makes me think, "Oh, this is something I can continue to do." Or sometimes I made a mistake too and people say, "Listen, we didn't expect you to make such a mistake." And then first of all I say it's really important that you told me because I understand that it wasn't easy to tell me something like that and I wasn't aware of it and you're right and next time I'll fix it really important to me thank you that this is you need to know how to receive feedback yes yes yes very important Barry we all have important conversations in which we want to convey a certain message if it's at work with
38:59 our boss let's say we want to move on or maybe turn it into a conversation with the employees how they need to improve or at home with your spouse because things need to change and even with our children. Most people don't know how to construct a clear message. How do you recommend preparing to convey a message clearly? Is there a formula for this? I think today more than ever it's about being concise and clear. So the preparation again, who am I talking to? How do I tailor the message to the person I'm speaking to? It's even the communication channel, for example, I'm not in emails. You want to call me, send me WhatsApp. Some people, if it's not in their email box,
39:44 they won't remember it. So it's contacting the right channel. It's contacting even at the right time. I mean, I'm really awake at 11 at night. You want to call Ed. I'm available. I'm awake. I'm connected to Ed. There are women on my team who, after nine, run out of battery. There's nothing to talk to them about. So it's on this channel at this time, in this way. Some people, if they are hungry, can't listen. So I first have to accommodate you if I want to talk to you. So it's really, really important to understand who it is and come up with a message that is short and clear, and the shorter the message, the more preparation it requires. I think a lot of people enter conversations without defining for themselves what they want to come away with. What is
40:31 my goal anyway? Why am I even giving you this information, what do I want you to do with it, how does this information create value? There is a set of questions people can ask. I'll give you the three precious ones. One is who I'm talking to and what they're interested in hearing, where I create value. I call it what's in it for me. So every time you listen to me you say, okay, and what do I get out of this? Why is it important for me to know this? Or if I do it for you, if I take you on as a dealer in a low-rent apartment or rental, what comes out, what do I gain? How are you begging me for a few euros less? So that's one. Two is what my request is,
41:17 what I ask for and how I give you a reason. So a word in Hebrew that is important is because I ask for it because I give a reason and if so if you do this or if we do this then we will save or then we will get a cause and effect cause and effect if you want to succeed then you have to come prepared so a and I think if it's in a business environment then find a story people remember stories, people connect to stories, how do I create an emotional connection with you first of all the selectivity because you know the sudden you person
42:02 in the morning and feel feels like he's with and then he starts walking it's not that he got up in the morning and thinks he's with so what activates us is emotion so if I want to convince you if I want to influence you if I want to harness you if I want to ask you for something I first have to create an emotional connection with you that you even feel like you want to listen to me or that you're interested in listening to me and after that come with the request it puts you in order or did I confuse it a little too much it puts me in order great you know it reminds me of a series I saw called Billions Billions yes you saw it yes yes I saw a great series yes and I even saw it a few times and there's this judge I I don't remember his name, a
42:49 guy who's a bit of a bloke, he's the supporting actor, maybe yes, yes, yes, he's in the lawsuit, he's drowning, the main plaintiff, there's some kind of and he's constantly talking in stories in the series, he's constantly talking to people, he says "let me tell you a story" or "let me tell you something" and he's giving stories and it always amazed me, how powerful it is, how I love people who tell stories, because how touching it is, how penetrating it is, and how much it stays with you. I talk about it to this day, thinking about this series. I think about him. Why? Maybe I don't remember the story, but I remember the impact he makes with the story, that he conveys the message he wants through the story. You see, a lot of commercials today are stories. For
43:35 example, I just got back from the United States, so there's a pharmaceutical company there, so they don't talk about the medicine. Let's say there's a grandfather who has trouble lifting his children and can't play with them, and then suddenly he comes and lifts the children up high. I don't have to be there because of the medicine, but if you want this story of being there for the grandchildren and maybe playing with the grandchildren, it appeals to emotion. So if you remember, in Israel, there used to be a cell phone when the words ran out, then a That all the adult children return to the kindergarten teacher when she retires, or a father who enters for the first time, what's his soccer field, or all sorts of events like that that trigger a blue-and-white emotion, the most at home in the world. It always
44:23 appeals to some emotion that moves us. And the right marketing is through a story that people can identify with, connect with, and through the story and emotion, it motivates me to take action. When you speak to an audience or even talk to people one-on-one, do you use stories a lot ? I try, I'm a lot like my grandmother because I learned a lot from her, so I say, my grandmother used to say, and once I heard that she sounded really smart. She really told you all these things. I said most of them, most of the rest she would have told me if she knew them. But in the way I'm formatting it, these are things that my grandmother would have told me. She really
45:08 was a special figure in my life. Yeah, so I think that's right. Let's talk about managers. You don't want to be a platonic figure, you want to be a human figure that you can connect with . So as soon as you tell something about hobbies, you give analogies and metaphors from your childhood, these are things that really create a connection between people. So I think part of the preparation is thinking about what stories I can share. But the story must contain some kind of message for people. If you tell me a story, I say, then what? Or why did you tell me that? The story is not good. The story should lead to some conclusion. What kind of stories do you read to your children? Either you read them endlessly, I have a library, or
45:56 I'm making things up from scratch. Do you make up stories? This is the most fun. Now if you take a story, let's say everyone has some kind of message. A Pinocchio, a story about a red balloon, a Lulu bear, there's all of them. There's even a story for children who have a hard time weaning themselves from diapers. So there's the story of the poop that goes out for a walk and you can let it go. And yes, I think we impart values through stories. We give tools through stories, and that's a very, very good way. At the university, there are case studies. In the army, there's a battle legacy. We're constantly in the Torah. There are lots of stories, so it's a
46:45 very, very good way to convey a message when I wrap it in a story. So if I now want to go, say, to my boss, I don't have my own boss, my wife, but I don't really have a boss, but let's say whoever is listening to us, as if I have a boss, they said, " Go to my boss to ask for a raise." Do you recommend that I really put some kind of story in there because I'm saying now someone is listening, saying someone is listening to us and saying, wow, I want this way or I want this way if it's the boss or if it's somewhere else, with me incorporating a story into it, will it help me achieve what I want or convey the message? So again, I'm here for you. It depends on what the story is, it depends on how I tell this story. Sometimes it's a combination of the facts. Here, I got a deal at this price or everyone got a deal. If I can come up with
47:30 a combination of logic, here, I need to help them say yes to me. What can I tell you that will help you say yes to me and make it harder for you to say no to me? So how do I show that this request is a reasonable request? How do I show that it is consistent with what will be taught to me? How do I and if I think about how you can use a story in this thing then I can tell you my manager I can say Idan you remember how I succeeded and I take some kind of story where I invested above and beyond I who reinforce yes you remember so how I worked all weekend and you told me there are no such things so how can I find a
48:18 story where actually through this story I show my professionalism I show the added value that I bring to this role. yes. Wow, did you strengthen me now? Because I'm going back to the apartment again. I'm slow. You give me, you give me a checklist so that I know I did it correctly. I go back to the apartment again, and I remember telling him that it came naturally to me, that I have a friend who told me that when we close a deal, it's important to me that both parties are satisfied. As if I told him, you know, when I was little, I was raised to spend, just like I shared with you, but I really believe that it's important that both sides are satisfied because it's important to me that you be both you, that both sides know what they gain and what they lose, so here you used it yourself, and even what you gave for an apartment instead of saying, "I'm very important to
49:04 me." My friends tell me that, "Whoever knows me knows that, when I was little, my father raised me to get the best price, and now I understand that it's not exactly like that." So if you come up with this story, it makes you a much more human, accessible person. It inspires trust, but it's important to tell the right story at the right time, in the right way. If you take people who are technical, they don't like to hear marketing and sales stories. And if you go to people who are more in business and come and talk to them about technology, you will lose them. So let's say for little kids, they want to hear stories about kids who are their age or they can identify with the hero. I say
49:49 someone I like or someone like me. Someone I like or someone like me. If I don't identify with the hero of the story at all or the hero of the story doesn't interest me, then that story has less value. It won't work. yes. I tell my kids a lot about the Smurfs. They love stories about the Smurfs, which are very reminiscent of children. And when I tell my daughter, I'm talking about Smurfette, yes, you know, I really connect it to her. I told you that we want to move to a relocation now, so I just make up a story for her from my head. Smurfette is doing a relocation, but that's how it is. She tells me, "Dad, Dad, stop, but that's my story." As if you're talking about me, I say, " No, no, that's not Smurfette at all. She does it. She does it somewhere else. But as if the way to connect is to first understand who I'm talking to and how I connect
50:36 them to the story. It will touch their emotions, of course. Then the message will be conveyed much better. Especially you make her the heroine of the story of the dulcet tone. So in high-tech there are stories about a father who traveled abroad a lot . yes. There are stories today about single- parent and same-sex families. Because once upon a time there was a father, a mother, a child. There is also a mother and a mother or there is only a mother or two fathers. And once the kids can see that there are stories that they are, that this is someone like me living my life and experiencing what I am experiencing. So it produces a much greater impact. beautiful. So I think we did a TED Talk with someone who said that it always upsets her that in all the stories the prince saves the princess. The prince
51:22 kills the dragon in the end. So she wrote a story where the princess rides the horse, kills the dragon with her sword, and saves the prince who falls in love with her and proposes marriage. And she tells him not to be extreme yes but this is something that comes to women to say that you can be a hero you don't always need to be saved you don't have to get married so I think she has a load that sits that she has a load but this load also has an audience I mean it is also something that I think that the narrative shapes consciousness I mean so if all I hear are stories of girls that the prince saves then I am
52:08 lacking in the feeling that I need the prince to save me yes artificial intelligence is already talking writing and analyzing emotions we talked about it before the episode what does this say about the role of our media in a world like this and how our media is going to change a I don't know because no one knows exactly how it is going to be a I can tell you that I work with Microsoft which is rebranding itself as an AI company so here is also a company that was a software company it is adapting itself and a deviation from Microsoft CEO says we Microsoft is an AI company and one of the exponents there said they always ask me if AI will replace people and says my answer is
52:54 that AI will not replace people but AI will replace people That AI users will replace people who don't use AI and I think that the ability to use AI and balance technology and humanity, like between tradition and innovation, is really finding the balances. So yes, it's important to use technology. Yes, it's important to help. But yes, it's also important to give it the human touch. You know, but I'm like, I'm looking. I get a lot of messages, whether it's on Instagram and stuff, you know, from listeners who follow me. And I can't always answer. I don't always get to it. I'm busy. I
53:40 have a lot of things. I have other businesses. There was once when I took someone's message. I wrote in a chat. "Answer for me." You know, he wrote a better answer than I ever would have. I was. In order for me to answer like that, I had to sit down and think. Connect with the emotion and answer. And he did it for me in three seconds. So, I say, maybe my need for communication will decrease. And maybe the quality of my communication will decrease because I practice it less. Yes, I think that's one of the dangers. Also, today, if you see a lot of young people, most of their communication is through technology, on Instagram, TikTok, in channels like this, and that creates this. If that's the whole way of communication, then it's a
54:27 drag. From their social connections in a face-to- face meeting, and so I think it's important to maintain balance, it's important to enjoy the technological benefits, but also to maintain our humanity. All of these actions can save you time. So let's say in the answers, let's say on LinkedIn or Instagram, and if the AI can answer you, then great, use it. But if there's a person there that you want to develop a relationship with, then use AI, but add to that, when I prepare courses, I use AI a lot. I write something and I ask for feedback. Give me feedback on it. First of all, I ask for feedback. How does it sound? Or can I say how does it sound to an American manager? How does it sound to a technical person who works on and doesn't know you? And then I
55:13 get feedback. And then I can tell him where you'll keep the human style, which is, where can you see and suggest improvements? So there are some words that are jarring to me from AI, which is "after foster" or "to equip." So if AI wrote it directly, how can I sometimes replace it with words that are more human, more spoken? Even if it's a grammatically accurate word and it's correct, it's perceived as less human. So where is it and where isn't it? And I think that in the test of results, if the person who received a response from you, even if it was written in "I," took no more than three seconds, it's better if he's satisfied. The test of results, yes, Idan answered me yes. But the question is, if this doesn't
55:59 bring us to a situation where we no longer practice our communication enough, you yourself say that the dating world, this world, people are already less into human interaction. I get to be here a lot into human interaction, which for me is a huge privilege, and a lot of people don't, and it's becoming less and less. You don't worry about it. I generally worry less. I'm not a fool who worries about the future. I think a lot of the things that model us never happen in reality. Wow, that's true. People go to movies about what? It's as if they develop all kinds of conspiracies for themselves and miss out on life itself, on what's happening now, out of anxiety about the future. So I'm generally less anxious and less
56:46 worried. I think you also know that you saw some kind of movie, Thank You Digital Man, how we are becoming more and more digital, and the story of the Matrix, which is a bit of a cocoon about a creator. Ultimately, the AI will make decisions, the AI will direct us, it will control us, as if it were really, oh, and he will get up on the phone and interrupt a gardener in a scene like this, yes, like the Matrix, yes, in the Matrix, that's what happened. I think ultimately the human spirit, I'll give you a simple example, okay? A can be empathetic. Let's say if you say, "I had a hard day," you can identify an emotion and say, "It sounds like you had a really hard day and it
57:33 sucks." But what AI doesn't have is life experience. I have a crappy day. He doesn't know what a bad day is. So he can say the empathetic statement. But as a person who has also had days like this, I have the experience of living it, it adds the human layer that makes it so. So I think, let's not be afraid of technology, let's use technology, let's balance the technological and the technological and preserve the humanity and the touch that we have. But I'm not, I'm not afraid of it. You know, the topic of robotics today, which can do a lot of
58:19 new professions that we can't even imagine now, that will open up opportunities for things that are difficult today. Some things are emerging today that just a few years ago we couldn't do. It sounds like science fiction to us. If you could leave our listeners with one simple message that could change the way they communicate from today, what would it be? What does it mean to change the way we communicate today? Improve it. Okay. So I should have phrased the question a little differently perhaps. yes. Because the resource that has the constant improvement of learning never stops. So it doesn't matter what stage your listeners are at, whether
59:05 they're at the beginning of their journey, whether they're in the middle, whether they're already approaching retirement. I think we never stop learning. never. And I think that constant gradient is the pillar of excellence. I think that in order to improve, the first thing I think is needed is awareness. Self-awareness. A lot of people are not aware of themselves. Some people think they are bad communicators and they are actually great. Some people think they are great and no one else thinks that way, so I think we need to create awareness. I suggest people discover their strengths and
59:52 not necessarily their weaknesses. Because once someone came to me for training and I complimented him on what he was doing well and he looked a little upset. I saw it in his body language. I said, "What are you saying? You only tell me good things." He said, "Wow." He said, "No, that's why I came to you." I said, "What did you come to me for?" And then he kind of banged on the table. He said, "Slap me. Tell me where I'm not good. That's why I want to." I said, "What do you do well?" You know, he said, " It's not important. I already do it well." And I think that a lot of times, it's actually about leveraging your strengths. When people want to improve communication, they're constantly looking for where I'm not good and where I could do better. And I say, "Turn around and go to the places you're already good at and leverage from there." So, strengthen your strengths. And if you don't know where
1:00:40 your strengths are, ask people who know you well. We've already talked about it. Ask the coach who will tell you what's good about conversations, but I think that identifying The embrace and invest there, and I will also say that every interaction is an opportunity. You don't have to wait for a meeting with the boss or the client or the strategic presentation. In every daily interaction, there is an opportunity to be more attentive, to be more empathetic, to pay attention to who I am in front of and ask how I bring value, how I can use everything I have, everything I am, to help the people around me. Even if they are people I will never
1:01:26 see again, it is simply a matter of choice, awareness, and daily practice. Okay, we're coming to the end of the episode and I have a concept here that I'm connecting with the guests who come here. Each guest answers a question from the previous guest and passes the question on to the next guest. Okay, I liked it. My previous mentor was Michal Malgrom Moore. Do you know her? not. Yes, yes, I know Michal. And her question is this, what is the worst thing that will happen to you on the day you are where you want to be? I'll give context to this. We talked about this in the episode about actually understanding what's stopping us from being where we want to be today in life we want things and to identify what's stopping us we're basically asking the question what's the worst thing
1:02:12 that could happen the day I'm in the place I want to be first of all where do you want to be where is the place you want to be and what's the worst thing that could happen so it's a little weird because the place I want to be here is where I am today I mean I'm at an age where I'm not in one place and I want to be somewhere else so I don't have this wow when I grow up I want to be in or achieve I'm really focused on here and now there are a few goals in both my personal life and my professional life that I want to reach I think the worst thing that could happen to me if I get there is to find out that this is
1:03:00 not what this is not where I wanted to be. I mean, you wait for something that works, works, works, and then you get to it and you say, this is not what I thought, this is not what I thought, this is not what it doesn't give me what I hoped it would give me, and there is a feeling of disappointment from the place I always wanted to be, I got there and it still isn't, and there is still something missing. Yes, I can ask you what this place is, what do you want to achieve? But in my personal life, it's personal. In my professional life, I'll see. We are now also. That's exactly what we talked about. We do a lot of courses and a lot of the direct personal meeting
1:03:47 is on Zoom. FaceTime. We are thinking of doing something digital about it. It's like you wrote that you wrote a book and you can't turn it into something digital. You can't meet with everyone who wants to meet you. And then you turned it into something digital. Right? You have a. So I think my ambition is to try to create some kind of digital solution that, on the one hand, will preserve the value and the impact that this is a subject, on the other hand, will not replace the interpersonal communication. So it's on a professional level, first of all, good luck, thank you, and I really liked it. I also connected to the issue of the goals that we
1:04:34 think we will feel something specific. When we get to them and in the end it explodes in our faces or rather explodes, but we simply get there and realize that it's not what I thought. I really connect with this personally. I would like to ask you now what question you would like to convey to our next guest, what do you want? What do you mean, what do you really want? What do you really want? Well , in English it sounds a little better. I think that people, this is such a profound question that it's hard to actually say what the true desire is because there's a difference between the declared desire and the true desire. So people light cigarettes. I really want to quit smoking, but
1:05:22 I just lit a cigarette. So the real desire is to enjoy smoking. Or what? And the stated desire is to be fitter, to earn more money, to quit smoking, to lose weight, but that is the product of desire. What is your true desire? What do you really want?
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