THE MEDIA IN FACE OF UKRAINE CRISIS

0:05 [Music] hi de ladies and gentlemen welcome to this edition of global inside on for you media Africa we're here again to talk what is topic around the globe particularly looking at the crisis uh between the Russian Federation and uh the uh uh government of Ukraine looking at of course the area the contested area of the dunas and bringing to the four the position of uh the uh media in

0:51 bringing resolve to uh the ongoing flare as the Russia Ukraine war continue to gain momentum their made has taken or have taken a particular focus on reporting on the real states by embarking on a fi trip Journey uh to leave the realities on the ground to provide an alternative information to what is coming from mainstream uh media uh particularly a delegation of foreign journalists and uh you know also including experts in human rights lawyer uh covering countries like Germany the United States of America Italy turkey Cameroon among others recently visited

1:37 the donx People's Republic DPR and of course during this press T the media men and women visited strategic areas of their uh country of the area especially uh uh the as of steel plant actually affected by the shelling in DX and Mario pole and elsewhere in the uh uh region the journalist also met with the roller of the donx People's Republic Dennis pushin at a press conference a meeting uh that provided them with the scope for question and answers on current Stakes P pattering the crisis in the dunas and particularly in the D People's Republic

2:26 the Press T which happened from the September 27 to the 8th of October 2024 was made possible by the uh information and press Department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation among other stakeholders that ured UT utmost security uh for journalists to gather fast and information and bring about the real narratives happening in the dunas and of course with a a panel of expert and particularly a team that was part of this uh press talk we want to analyze the role of the media in solving uh uh

3:12 the crisis ping uh uh the Russian Federation and uh the government of Ukraine what is the possibility of Russia of the media playing a greater role in all of these and of course uh we are going to analyze this in the course of the the program uh a discoursive and informative uh program ladies and gentlemen it is global insight and of course without Much Ado let's get to the United States of America welcoming Daniel kovalik who is kovalik lawyer human rights scholar and peace Advocate welcome to you Daniel and of course uh we accept we appreciate uh your time to bring more insight on this topic that focuses on the role of the media in uh

3:59 bringing a resolve to the uh ongoing crisis or Ukrainian crisis welcome thank you very much Clarice uh and of course we are going straight we are to getting a you know a holistic uh analysis from you done regarding what you witnessed on the field this time around noting that it wasn't the first time you visiting the donx People's Republic and elsewhere in the dbas areas that are actually uh you know being been uh uh suffering from the uh the the shellings of course uh that intensified even uh after we saw the uh uh the special military operation and then the engagement also of the uh the third party countries in the whole

4:47 situation what uh holistic approach can you give pertaining this uh recent visit to the donx People's Republic yes well this was my fifth time to the dbass my third time to detet in the last two years and first of all I saw a lot of improvements uh for the people there in detet and Mar opal huge amounts of reconstruction particularly in Mar opal uh the Russians have put in I think five billion dollar doing massive reconstruction and new construction of housing Hospital schools uh it's quite impressive and so I I think there's been a lot of gains in those regions in terms of first of all

5:33 security and peace in the last two years and also um in terms of uh again infrastructure uh improvements which have been massive and we have to remember that remind our audience that this war did not start in 2022 it started in 2014 yeah when um first of all there was a right-wing coup that was supported by the United States instigate instigated by the United States and it brought to power a government that was openly hostile towards its own russian-speaking population particularly in the East particularly in the donbass this led uh the two republics detet People's Republic and lugans

6:19 People's Republic to be formed and to have referenda in which they declared National sovereignty uh they declared independence from Ukraine this uh began a war uh between Kiev and those two republics in which 14,000 people were killed even before Russia intervened in February of 2022 so uh I just wanted to to to give that caveat uh looking at of course uh the uh uh historic phase of va as to when uh the this crisis actually uh started done do you uh maybe uh how do you think such which have been undertaken by particularly private media and in our

7:05 Preamble we highlighted the media aggression it ignores the war that was going on between 2014 and 2022 it either downplays or totally denies the fact of uh Nazis neo-nazis involved in the conflict on the on the side of Kia um and again again so it's very important to get independent journalists into these zones uh on the truth and and the the fact is war has been going on a long time the fact that most of the people in the dbass frankly are happy the Russians intervene and that happy the Russians are there the other you know Thing You observe by the way and

7:50 again that the Western press either won't say or or just lies about the Western press says oh well these are occupied areas in Mar opal and detet they're occupied by Russia well there's no evidence it's occupied you know Clarice we saw very few Russian soldiers on our trip there there were a few checkpoints but those were between cities not within cities um the border is pretty porous between Mainland Russia and donbass um you know there's barely even um you know uh a kind of Customs immigration there anymore so uh there is no evidence of of

8:37 an occupation and you know and on you know also there's very little evidence of a partisan movement against yeah the Russians right you don't see massive you know uh you know operations of people forming militias to oppose the Russians or whatever the people are glad the Russians are there and that is an inconvenient fact to the whole Western area n and again you know trips like ours are able to report on those facts lapses of or politics of international relations and uh you know some sort of conspiracy that happens at the uh uh upper level that uh some you

9:23 know a group of individuals who always Mastermind not to benefit the population but rather for their personal interest and rather not to save actually Humanity what New Perspectives uh then uh do you think can uh the uh private media bring into uh the conflict of you know digging deep into understanding uh the the philosophy behind uh the collective for West and the involvement in war across the the world uh particularly in uh the the dbas region well I mean you can start by the fact that you have these private companies uh Black Rock and Vanguard which now own

10:08 about 30% of the land concessions in in Ukraine and these are American companies by the way and it's very clear that the war in large part from the Western perspective is to protect those interests those Investments and also investments in uh minerals the very rich mineral resources of Ukraine particularly East Ukraine in fact Senator lindsy Graham Republican senator from the United States recently said that um the US was supporting this war in order to be able to control those mineral resources in Ukraine sure uh and

10:54 again the US itself probably won't control them they'll be controlled by these private investment firm so um as we see many times these wars are Wars about capital and profits not about human rights or democracy or Freedom or any of those things that were told by the West still on another very important uh aspect uh let's look at uh the uh uh the series of talks which have been holding uh let's uh take the the the particular case of of the uh uh the the talks in uh bellarus and also the the talks uh maybe uh hosted by Turkish president r t

11:40 erogan still on resolving this uh bilateral agreement which today we are talking about uh uh Ukrainian War uh between uh the the Russian Federation and uh uh the uh the Ukraine government when you look at the sticks on the ground uh that pel how how can can we use this to give importance to these talks and and see if today these talks do still have relevance in the uh the process of trying to bring a resolve uh to maybe a permanent solution to the crisis honestly I don't think so and I'll tell you why because in the end first of all you don't have a sitting president in um in KF uh zelinsky's

12:29 presidential terb ran out months ago and he's refused to call for new elections so first of all who has the authority on Ukraine side to negotiate anyone anything no one and uh of course why is that because it's the US that pulls the strings in Ukraine anyway there's no deal that's going to be reached unless the US is involved in it's going to be a deal between the US and Russia that's just a fact and I don't think that deal is possible under the Biden Administration I I certainly don't think it's possible before the November 5th elections there was we have to be reminded a possibility of a peace deal back in March of

13:14 2022 um a deal appeared to be at least the framework of a deal was reached between Ukraine and Russia in which Ukraine could have kept all the territor Lost after February 2022 and the US and United Kingdom intervened to kill that deal and I think that was the last time probably negotiations between Ukraine and Russia will really you know could have resulted in in a peace deal and it also shows again who's in charge here it's not Kev it's Washington and to a lesser extent London in Char being the problematic or the main question that uh uh we've been trying to

13:59 and that's one of the reason or maybe one of the reasons that led to this press T which actually uh brought the uh journalist to the realization of the situation on the ground and looking at it from another perspective still with you all Dan let's look at who is in charge here and see how uh you know other countries because lately we've been seeing statements from uh country like Germany and elsewhere in uh in Europe saying that they would not send military uh assistance to to the zalinsky Le government in uh in C can we to an extent say is because they have

14:46 understood you know the the philosophy about the uh you know the the the fact that the collective West or even other countries which you just mentioned like the United States and UK have been uh you know supporting the uh the the cave government for some personal interest maybe uh geopolitical interest I would like to revisit what the uh the EU officials said some time ago that the USA is not back in Ukraine because they actually love ukrainians or they want to actually see Ukraine emerging as the Victor in this whole scenario it's because they actually pursuing their geopolitical interest and it bring us now to the the standpoint of some

15:32 countries right now Germany others Poland you know de crying the fact that this is causing them more harm than than good and uh relooking uh into you know sending more military aid to Ukraine what can we uh you know bring as uh uh uh the understanding of these whole complexity of the situation and what is the way forward for for countries that are backing the cave government yeah well I think Europeans are waking up to the fact that they are they are some of the losers in this conflict right that this was one of the things the US wanted out of this conflict uh was to cut Europe off from

16:19 Russian natural gas and and and Europe has been depending on Russian natural gas for many decades even when Russia was the Soviet Union and um this has devastated the European economy that they've been cut off from this cheap fuel who are feeling the burnt of uh the shellings of the shellings of the crisis and of course for this number of years you know there have always been recort uh uh that people have been forced into you know being Witnesses uh uh supporting particularly the uh Russian Federation whereas they are not happy with uh the the whole situation on the ground and particularly with the involvement of

17:06 Russia while on the field did you see a contrary uh uh idea to this uh when you interacted with the the residents there in the donx People's Republic yeah I mean my impression is that people feel glad that Russia's intervened they're glad they're now part of Russia they voted in a referenda in September 2022 to become part of the Russian Federation uh they feel that they now have hope for the future because of that that that their H their hope does lie with Russia not with Ukraine and in fact um uh real estate prices went way up after they joined Russia

17:52 which shows it's a real indicator of where people are at that they think that uh you know their country their country is better off and their you know uh their real estate their land is more valuable now being part of Russia than being part of Ukraine says a lot um you know just you know when you're in detet uh the city of detet you look around and what was destroyed in the 2014 2015 war between Kiev and that region they had an airport that's completely destroyed the government in Kiev destroyed that the military destroyed that um they have a world class uh you know football

18:38 stadium uh one of the best in the world uh that was recently built before um uh before this conflict began in 2014 but you know they don't have an airport to support people coming into the country to use it um you know they they're worse off now uh because of the conflict that began in 2014 but they're better off since Russia came in they they're safer and uh again they have the opportunity for their infrastructure to be rebuilt hopefully that the Russians will rebuild that airport in denet and and denet will be you know as a a destination Point

19:26 again not only for Russians but for Europeans and that was lost in 2014 and I think again the Russians are the hope that that will be restored indeed and on the aspect of censorship and manipulation in the age of misinformation Janelle kovik how can do you think as a you know a pundit and very concerned with the happenings or geopolitical happenings across the globe and particularly on what is happening between Russia in Ukraine how can journalists ensure that they present this accurate and you know comprehensive reports which reflect the the realities of life in the dbas without being tucked

20:13 as propagandist or maybe uh Target it and maybe deprived from uh you know the exercising or maybe dispensing fully uh their job well we're going to be called prop gist and we're going to be subject to some kinds of censorship no matter what we do or say that's just a fact uh because we are challenging the mainstream narrative and uh you know that makes us a Target but I think the key is first of all you go to those regions you talk to people on the ground and you report on it and you report on it honestly if you do that um you know you you're not going to

20:59 insulate yourself from from those attacks uh from that slander but uh you know I think people will see through those attacks and they will listen to what you have to say and I you know I'll tell you I think that the act the you know a work of independent journalist has worked in the United States and I'll tell you why because polls show very few Americans see see Russia is a threat um very low numbers there as hard as the US government media pushed to represent Russia as a threat by and large Americans aren't buying it and they're not buying it because they've been independent journalists who have told the truth and have pushed against that narrative and that's a victory and that's why the US

21:46 government now is going after RT news and other outlets uh oh Sputnik for example Sputnik radio was just recently shut down by the treasury Department of the United States yeah they're going after independent journalists okay uh because they know they've lost they've lost the info war wars and uh I'm proud of being a part of the victory we've had over the Western area okay thank you so much Daniel kovik lawyer human rights scholar and peace advocate for your Insight on this particular topic the media in pH of Ukraine crisis and of course this topic is coming as a result of a press to that

22:33 a group of journalists are coming from Turkey Germany United States of America Italy Cameroon and elsewhere uh visited the disputed area the dbas to be precise to uh relate with the the residents and of course uh uh to actually uh uh see for themselves The Happenings which have been uh occurring especially since the uh from the time of 2014 to uh the start of the special military operation till day time uh met a lot of other journalists that are based in the dunas and have been given the real Stakes on the ground people like uh Patrick lanster we have Christian from France

23:18 who has taken uh you know uh this assignment to be on the ground and report news as it happens in spite of the censorship in spite of being ATT attacked as propagandist and of course in uh the uh uh transformation of news or information ping the crisis just been informed that kavan oal has joined us he's uh coming from osal Canal foreign news Chief this is uh uh a news Outlet in Turkey welcome to Global inside does the O hi clis thank you thank you so much I am happy to be here we're happy to have you too and of course on the panafrican

24:05 television it is for you media Africa uh although you were part of the uh journalist that embarked on the media tour to continue to appraise the sitution on the ground pertaining the Russian Ukraine crisis particularly in the DX People's Republic uh we want to have you know your impression or Insight after visiting this uh uh a region come uh you know from the period of September 27 to the uh the the 8th uh of October what can you say those changes which have occurred ever since you started visiting uh the the area in crisis yes uh as you say it wasn't a short trip actually we were there for

24:52 few four days and we had chance to see the situation in dones Republic and not just dones because we we travel with with a bus from the Moscow to dones and when we turn back we we had chance to see little bit lugans uh Republic also okay we didn't uh did interview with the people in lugans but at least we had chance to see the atmosphere in lugans also and we we talk a lot with not just dones people but also the Russian people in Moscow also because now the actually Russia is in

25:40 war with uh Collective West so to see the dones uh was good for us but in the same time it was really helpful to talk with Russian people who live in mosos so when we we went there it was like like the anniversary of the reunification so the dones and lugansk uh republics uh just they joined to Russia Federation and it was the anniversary of this date then we went there and in dones we saw how the reunification H to dones people first

26:28 security like in term of security and the second uh in the term of reinf like because before of reunification the Ukrainian Nazis attack the years and years to dones lugans and after the reunification the dones people started to to feel themselves safe because before reunification it was just dones militia does soldiers who fight with Ukrainian Army the nazzis but after the reunification because of uh the dones is

27:15 part of Russia the Russian army started to fight with Ukrainian Nazis and the stations turn uh reverse uh because of the power of Russia so we we we talk with Donan people uh the dones citizens and they told us as like they were waiting for Russian army because yes they resist but it wasn't easy to resist for them to Ukrainian na Nazis uh but after the uh reunification uh actually Russian army entered to dones and after now today

28:02 also the Russian army captur three uh cities of dones from Nazis uh so this is really important and the second as I told you uh the situation of the Cities yeah when we when we visit the Donk cities like we saw the the nature of the war the destruction of the war all the war is destructive like we Are Witnesses the buildings they destruct we saw the buildings destructed uh the neighborhood distruct but in the same time we saw the new buildings the constructions yeah the the

28:50 constructions of infrastructure so like when we talk now you are giv uh the the chief of dones pushilin and Mr pushilin also uh he was saying to us we we did an interview with Mr pushin and the chief of the dones public Republic yeah he told he told us also the same thing like he said us like after reunification Russia start to care with Dones cities and before this like the Ukrainian government uh solve dones as a

29:36 separatist uh region and actually they didn't do anything for Don people Donis citizens so after the reunifications now in dones in lugans in Maro we visit Mar also the SE side of uh now we see there is a big effort uh to to to make the cities uh alive again absolutely giving a new phaser uh to the city of Mario Paul uh when I listened keenly to you to you uh o Del I want to uh you know have this Viewpoint from you you're coming from turkey and we're also aware of the role that turkey plays in

30:25 trying to to mediate uh the uh the ongoing uh crisis in Ukraine uh let's look at with what you uh you know witness on the field as a journalist do you think uh it it was enough for the Russian Federation to have entered to you know to to kickart the special military operation this question is particularly because some people out of the Viewpoint that uh it what happening what was happening did not give Russia enough for you know uh reasons to have uh started off with the special military operation in 2022 do you share that same perspective or the realities on the field actually uh uh gave you the the

31:13 assis that it was a necessary step from the Russian Federation thank you for this question uh as you know Turkey is a member of NATO sure so but uh we are not in the same time with the same position with us or Germany because in our group as you know really well the German journalist the US germanist uh participate to our uh trip and turkey is a country of NATO who doesn't follow uh it's a country who doesn't follow the the

31:58 sanction against Russia first thing we are a member of NATO but we don't follow the sanctions against Russia yeah but in the same time turkey has good relation with Russia but in the same time the Turkish companies sell the drones and armored vehicles to Ukrainian uh government also so the government of turkey a party uh try to good try to be good with Ukraine and in with Russia in the same time actually is a d

32:47 dmia ER and Turkish media we can say is kind of a western media okay as Canal the news channel channels are the news channel I work and Iden newspaper our newspaper of the group we try to give the truth about Ukrainian War the special operation of Russia yeah but generally in Turkey uh the Turkish people they are under attack of Western lies so it was really good for us to go to donk and to see the truth from uh from there because uh weal with Donan

33:35 people and in Turkey generally the Western media the Western Li say the Russia they are attacking to Ukrainian uh territories but when we went there we saw actually the Donan people who fight against Ukraine the years and years and after years and years just they were waiting for uh the Russian army came here and they Sol them and uh the thing the real thing is this and we we we Are Witnesses of this because we were talking with Donan people and is

34:22 not difficult to explain this situation MH to to Turkish people people why because they live the same thing in uh 74 in Cyprus in Cyprus uh the the the Greeks were attacking to Turkish citizens and during years and years the Turkish citizens uh identity just they were waiting the Turkish Army came and they help them so in 74 the Turkish Army uh enter to the Cyprus and and they they help to the Turkish civilian sure uh to explain the

35:08 situation in Ukraine now not Ukraine dones lugans is really useful for us to use this argument actually sometimes there are other uh civilians uh who need help and a country an army can go there to help them so we in our Channel we try to explain the the situation in dones and lugans uh like this to Turkish audience which is very imperatival to have an alternative source of information uh that uh characterizes the situation in the D bass and in the phase of heightened

35:55 geopolitical competition and how countries are carving new spheres of interest in the world of today and of course redefining the prospect or the the lines of international relations and corporations just to note ladies and gentlemen if you are just tuning in your onto for you media Africa and you are watching the program Global inside discoursive and knowledge sharing program and uh to to uh this time we are still talking uh to oal from Turkey a journalist who actually uh went through the th and team to visit the dbas and of course let's look at the uh the encounter with the uh the the military

36:41 especially uh volunteers fighting for the uh Russian Federation which uh we actually visited their uh maybe training ground here we're looking at the chriso group of military and one thing they said which was very peculiar was that they are volunteers and they are fighting independently like not directly involved under the uh Russian Ministry of defense and from uh the you know the narratives they gave some said they were being CED into the crisis like sent to the wall front when they were actually recruited into the Ukrainian Army without their consent and when when they

37:28 realized the real Stakes on the ground they had to switch because there there was a need to protect Mel so what can you say about this experience with these uh volunteers of you know the the the military which have uh you know defected and now defending the the Russian Federation in the the fight for this unified state that many of them uh voice during their interaction with the media in the Don People's Republic as now so uh actually we visit two volunteers group not just one as you say the first volunteers groups we we visit it was uh Ukrainian ukrainians

38:14 volunteers but there is a second volunteers groups also uh is Ahmed uh groups is really famous in turkey and actually uh in Turkey we know them as the Chans but when we went there we saw they are not just Chans they are they are volunteers from usbekistan kistan aaran dagistan and all of Russia so uh first part uh the Ukrainian volunteers we talk with them so they they they they try to to to liberate their country the Ukraine from the nais from the zansky

39:02 regime so to understand the situation maybe we we we need to think the second war world war because in the second world war also uh it was the same situation uh the the the people uh try to defeat the nazzis the fascism from their their their countries so uh as now you show the picture uh at the first place we visited the Ukrainian volunteers they just they tried to liberate their country from zalanski regime and the nazzis of Europe and for

39:47 this they they they feel they need to fight they they feel to do something uh for their country so now they they pass to the Russian part and with Russian with Russians uh they are fighting against zalanski and Nazis this is important because these people uh they are still Ukrainian they told us like they are not fighting against Ukraine they told us they are fighting against the zansky regime and nais who actually uh who get power in their uh own country this is an important Point as I told you

40:35 like to understand this maybe we have to think about the second uh World War because the in Europe they live the the same thing in the past and about the second part like the uh Ahmed yes ah group yeah ah Bal uh as a Turkish journalist we really wanted to go there because uh Turkish population they are Muslims and they have relations with middle Asia so as I told you like kadiro and this Ahmed Ahmed Balan it's really famous in Turkey actually in social

41:21 media and uh when we went there actually we surprised uh because in our mind we were thinking we will met with Chan Warriors but when we were there we understood it's not just Chan warriors uh these volunteers they they are from all the Asia like from dagistan from kistan from usbekistan from Russia sure from Russia so uh the Chan B also we can't say is a Chan Battalion it take the name Ahmed from the father of kadirov and we call them Chan because of this but otherwise is a volunteer

42:09 group volunteer Battalion from all the Asia uh and these people their fight for their uh motherland indeed indeed fighting for the modela which where the words reverberated by many of those volunteers one last question to you before we welcome Yulia o when we look at uh uh the the situation and of course this media tour there's already been a reaction uh from uh the uh the government of K pretending the involvement of uh particularly Turkish uh uh journalists uh in uh uh the the the the situation in the dbas how can we actually uh maybe uh bring

42:57 about a balance uh rather than uh do you think uh the the the Ukrainian government can actually open its uh its doors to welcome uh uh probably uh journalists from turkey with your own perspective to to to try to get the the information from the Ukrainian side in order to to bring a balance without endangering the lives of the journalists in question uh there's there are a lot of journalists who went to Ukraine really safely they don't have they didn't have any problem the Ukrainian the zansky regime tell them told them welcome

43:43 because they were at the NATO side in Turkey we are living a a information war between NATO and Eurasian Force so when a uh when a journalist who is side of West and when they visit uh Ukraine uh there's no problem for Ukrainian government but when canal and ID newspaper we went to dones to to see the truth and to to to make the news to make the informations the Ukrainian government start to attack us uh and it's something really understandable uh

44:31 because as I told you turkey is is between uh east and west and the the War uh between the NATO the Atlantic and Eurasian forces continue in turkey and Ukraine zansi regime also is is a part of this war okay thank you so much uh oel and time for us to welcome Julia Brook political scientist and founder Global expert Club joining from Moscow uh to the program Global insiders day which focus on the media in face of the Ukraine crisis particularly looking at the Press tour where a group of

45:18 journalists from across the world visit visited uh the dbas to get uh the 24th or the 2024 Stakes uh which we underlined already that the mission started from the 27th to the 8th of October uh 27th of September to the 8th of October 2024 taking uh the real Stakes on the ground and from what has been narrated so far by Dan kovalik and oal Yulia I will bring us now to the aspect of the role of political agenda in uh in all of all what is happening and how this actually undermines uh the the press or

46:03 the media in the dispensation of uh you know the the role of being the public watchdog or even uh bringing out the the information as news as it happens to the general public uh on this very important aspect of uh uh the uh the crisis between the Russian Federation and uh the uh cave government um yes uh hello Clarice and I'm happy to join the program today and I'm happy to greet the audience watching us on this day I think the topic we're discussing is uh very important and I would like to start off answering your uh question with the words of uh admiration and uh gratitude towards the

46:52 ones that choose to uh come and risk their lives and see for themselves and report on the actual situation on the ground in dbass danet is still being shelled many other places are still being shelled there they're still in a great danger and uh uh the first thing I would like to say is that it does require a lot of uh courage because the risks uh posed to the lives of those foreigners coming are not always uh uh the lifethreatening um in terms of the risks of being physically wounded but also in terms of uh the pressure that they might be getting when they go back especially to the countries of the

47:38 European Union to the United States so it does require a lot of courage and Christel who's present here today is a beautiful example of uh uh you know the real Courage the real passion for uh the profession and uh yes absolutely uh it's absolutely so because uh there are just a few of those who have been there for a while and they know that the situation from from the inside and they're able to provide a very uh um you know a very comprehensive vision of what's happening so uh in in the first place uh it's important to say that uh uh well um we've been involved in uh uh in uh making sure that this kind of visits of

48:25 foreign experts journalists are possible stting from uh 2022 so after the beginning of the special military operation before the the new regions have rejoined Russia uh the the situation on the ground was way too dangerous for such things to be happening but the ministry of defense was still trying to make sure that there were some groups coming in uh yet after the referendum and after uh the uh the regions have become a part of Russia and including the DPR the regulations have changed uh even though it's still important to understand that we're talking about a war zone and War Zone has its own rules uh security regulation regulations

49:11 always come first uh but it's still um a very um important fact that people keep going there and I'm happy to say that starting from uh 2022 some of the um experts and members uh or participants of the projects of the Globus expert Club have been frequent there uh and they're able to compare the situation compare uh the overall atmosphere compare the security situation and see the Dynamics of what's happening in uh donbas what was happening there back in 2022 and um how the cities like Mara look like uh now I think it's very important to provide this kind of opportunities so

49:57 um such organizations as the globous expert Club as uh the uh public movement D people Republic uh uh Resurrection Foundation uh some of the uh members of the um State parliament of Russia um and many others have been organizing uh opportunities for journalist to come uh and humanitarian missions and many other things and I think it's essential for for being able to know the truth and to disseminate it uh so um given the fact that uh uh there is quite a lot of fake news circulating especially in 2022 we could have observed we could observe uh various

50:43 kinds of fake news uh campaigns that were clearly orchestrated and being um a political scientist I can tell that any specialist in media in uh campaigning and in marketing can tell when something is uh orchestrated when something has big budgets behind and uh those kind of things because when you see the design the graphic the uh immediate appearance uh like almost on the same minute of the news on various kinds of sources you can surely know that it was uh uh worked on before and it's a coordinated commercial activity no more no less than that Absol when we talk about uh um the uh media that is U that is uh trying to get the

51:31 Grassroots uh data the uh uh conversations with the people on the ground you can see even by the way those materials are done that they're natural they're not always perfectly let's say edited because it's real life because you don't have time to uh or you don't have opportunity to uh you know um to make sure that it's all uh said perfectly well with the light and everything else so I mean even by the type of content you can tell in many cases where by analyzing um how it appears you can tell where it comes from and uh there is nothing that can replace those Vivid reports those Vivid conversations with the people on the ground okay and um it's it's very

52:17 important that there is still growing interest to go into danat uh growing interest in uh trying to to cover the situation from different angles and even though some of those people uh uh traveling there uh are not even able to have their names mentioned they're still doing a great job and uh they're still uh I think providing a great contribution in um explaining to their audiences uh the other side of the story explaining uh you know what uh has been happening and why and uh some of the reasoning that definitely will never be shown on channels like BBC or CNN or

53:02 somewhere else okay it's about uh giving the other side of the uh story and we continue with you Chrystal near Editor in Chief or Deputy editor Editor in Chief International reporters and uh still looking at this role of political agenda and you have been involved uh in uh the uh news report in on the war zone for quite uh a long time and leing the realities and having uh to to to leave actually what the population of the dbas has been living all these years so as a journalist and uh practicing in a in a very uh complex situation and a contested area like uh the the dbas do

53:49 you think there is a you know at one point that there is room for uh you know how political AFF affiliation and agenda of various media Outlets which are impacting the the medor coverage of the whole situation and how this brings about uh you know a compromise of uh the journalistic Integrity or maybe practice of in in the area of news giving particularly on areas which are very uh uh critical like uh the the crisis in the Donas which we are having on the table this day um thank you Claris yeah of course uh we see there is uh a political agenda

54:35 behind the news especially in the in the news from the West uh we clearly see there is a narrative set and the the Western journalists are sticking to it if they do not stick to it they lose their jobs so it's very simple um and is very obvious and what is funny is that these journalists pretend that they are neutral that they are factual and so on and and it's not the case uh but I think there there's of course a place for you know I I don't believe in the neutrality of a journalist a journalist is a person and of course each person has its own opinions political uh opinion uh way of viewing life and so on so of course a journalist cannot be purely neutral

55:21 because it's not a robot um so but a journalist has to be factual and that's where we we have now a problem with the with the the Western media is that they let all these political biases uh uh dictate what they publish uh so they publish things which has nothing to do with facts and that's the main problem as I always told them when I met some of them here because some of them came to Donas and I've seen what they published and I say you you can you can you can consider that you are forgive you can you can be on the Ukrainian side and and think that Ukraine is right but uh you have to report facts not your

56:09 opinions yeah uh you can express your opinions but but first you have to to share facts with your audience that's what you are paid for you are a journalist you're here to share information about the events about what is happening uh not transforming uh things and present your opinion as facts uh and that's the main problem that we have now with the Western press all the Western media they transform the political agenda into news uh and sometimes going completely contrary to the fact uh so I think there's a possibility you know there's a big big open room a lot of journalist who came to donbas and did a very great job were not for donbas or for Russ

56:56 Russia a lot of them were um really neutral or some of them even thought that Ukraine was right but some of them did the the job more or less properly so they shared the fact about what they saw what they what what they have witnessed and so I I think um we should review uh International standards like the the Munich Charter uh to to take this into account I mean a journalist can cannot be neutral but it should be factual so it should share and the facts and after if his opinion is that despite all this okay Ukraine is right it's okay

57:43 it's your opinion you have the right to have your opinion okay um yeah that that's what I think and that's the main problem we have now which means uh we have a lot of people who support Russia and donbas who come to to make the job and make the job greatly uh but uh I think there's also a place for people who are either neutral or even perhaps considering that Ukraine is right but we are also factual and we are able to let's say separate discriminate between between their opinion and their work of Journalism absolutely uh this uh are trying to bring uh you know the maybe the differences between opinion and facts in the the process of news giving I will stay with you uh Crystal you're a

58:29 journalist from France and of course you're very much aware of Francis T as far as the uh Ukraine crisis is concerned what actually uh is the motivation that to date you are still in the dbas uh relating uh information as it happens uh in spite of all the the complexities of the the the the crisis which uh has has largely been seen to be more of a geopolitical rather than uh you know a contestation between the two countries um you know what gives me the the most support in my work is the the feedback from my readers the feedback

59:17 from people who watch my videos who read my articles uh I am in constant contact with them so uh through theart Channel they can comment on all the social media and uh if they have real question I answer now we even have uh direct like like we have now with you but directly with them so once a week they can ask question both about the news but also about how we work about uh uh some you say personal stuff uh and and it built a very strong relationship and so um regularly when I have uh compliments when I have people will tell me uh how it's important the the work that I'm doing that I sometimes

1:00:02 people tell me that I open their eyes uh about what is really happening that the the work that I'm doing is important and so on um you know when sometimes I have the feeling that uh uh okay it's really too hard and and and so on and and and you have you are a b depressed you have Sometimes some moments where you feel that the the the price to pay is really high but you you receive so much love from the readers uh so much support that it gives strength to continue uh so for me the the the best uh let's say remedy to all these difficulties and to all these uh you know depressive aspects of of of no doing this work in such conditions where your native country is

1:00:47 against you is in fact supporting financing and and giving weapons to the country who would like to kill you because I have to remember that Ukraine is killing journalists uh since 2014 has killed already 30 Russian journalists uh and he's wishing to kill more so um that's that's really some something hard you know you you have moments where you you feel a bit despaired and I have always a reader who like you know it happens really by chance that he comes and tells me Chris thank you very much for your work it's very important you're a great woman and what you do is so so great and you open my eyes and and it gives back all these trains to continue

1:01:33 so that's uh I think the feedback with our readers for for real journalists for people uh who are wishing to to share the truth despite the difficulties I think the the contact with the with the readers with your public with your audience is really important because uh people are really great at supporting you at uh and um you know valuing the the the the importance of the of the work we are doing okay thank you so much Crystal and that is the plight of a journalists on the few particularly uh taking interest on sensitive issues and Julia book actually pinpointed that during her first interaction or Intervention which

1:02:20 she said it takes courage because there is a lot to lose when you take that much or that b step to get to the uh uh to the ground and get of course what is factual and this brings us again to look at the role of the International Community with you uh uh dear ulia let's look at how important it is for the International Community and we particularize here with uh the the the the bodies that actually uh protect the rights of journalists in the dispensation of their work work what do you think are those new uh uh D Dimensions that we need to bring into the uh the practice of Journalism

1:03:05 especially on on journalist who who are covering uh uh you know information in war zones so as to to make them you know have right to their you know the the right to to to uh you know bring news to the for without the fear of being isolated fear of being targeted a fear of being entangled in some sort of uh you know political contestations happening among the political or maybe superpowers across the world uh well um another important Point uh that I think is uh worth making here and now is that um some of that work being done by um journalists and experts

1:03:51 experts and international law experts in uh conflicts um it also serves the purpose of uh being used at uh at the major International venues and Dan Kavik he was present in this program um at the very beginning he was one of those persons that uh traveled to uh donbas back in uh November 2022 for the first time also to take a look at the evidence of the uh uh of the fact that um us uh made weapons uh and um EU made weapons were being used to shell the civilians and he spoke at the um un Security Council um we also had uh a very Vivid

1:04:38 example of the case of one of the Mones in DPR located right at the um at the front line being constantly shelled by Ukrainian Army that was discussed at the UN Security Council and after that more attention was drawn to this fact more of humanitarian Aid was making it through to the monastery I think a lot of it has to do with the uh uh not just let's say the media attention but also the fact that the expert community at such a level as the UN was um was getting this information and uh uh the awareness about this kind of uh um you know um striking facts uh was uh uh was brought

1:05:25 about so um I think another important aspect aside for just raising awaren awareness among the U uh you know people and the um let's say audience um uh is that uh a more U more of U timely analysis can be done because as we say in Russian uh uh you don't show your fists after the fight is over it does make sense right so it's important to be there when it's happening to be able to record uh the uh you know fresh let's say videos Impressions gather evidence and in DPR there are quite a lot of uh uh quite a lot of uh museums and quite a

1:06:10 lot of uh exhibitions that are aimed at showing the evidence of what was uh found during the uh uh the conflict time right and uh this goes to show the um the kinds of weapons that were used gain civilians some of the uh some of the evidence that is showing uh uh that is showing uh certain symbols being used by uh Ukrainian battalions that definitely show their ideology as as a quite destructive one and this kind of Nazi ideology that is prohibited in in many countries yeah um uh and uh quite a lot of things that are important to see uh specifically when it's happening because otherwise it can all be about various

1:06:57 kinds of interpretations and uh if we're talking about hard pcts it's important to document them and uh at the moment at the moment this the the process that was uh in a specific way uh taken care of by the um osc uh Mission uh it's not happening anymore but the OC was uh a bit tricky in the way they presented the facts uh in many cases they would they would just say that there was shelling of Civilian population but they wouldn't indicate where the um the the shells were coming from and who was to be held resp responsible for this okay because well every war would be over sooner or later and uh after it would be important

1:07:44 to go through the facts and to deal with uh uh to deal with the uh consequences of the decisions uh made by certain people including the military Commanders that were allowing such cruelty to happen uh uh against civilians and striking examples of marup striking examples of uh humanitarian corridors being sabotaged people being uh being being shot including pregnant women including women including you know many civilians that were just trying to escape from the war and uh which brings us to to understanding uh something uh that is very peculiar in uh the uh uh the the the way the media is actually working

1:08:30 today uh Julia let me stay with you while you were talking and of course with what christelle highlighted we want to look at U uh the the the fact how we can you know have a compromise or maybe that point of collaboration where maybe the two the two visions will come to meet for us to to bring about uh that uh uh Turning Point especially on the the crisis in the dumus you know people have always argued that of course these journalists that have been visiting the dunas particularly on the side of Russia are spreading Russian propaganda and they obviously say that we are on a program like this without a counter

1:09:15 opinion and uh that is something which is very imperative uh do you think uh or have you noticed a counter opinion coming from the mainstream media uh to get uh you know the alternative uh analys analysis on the realities of the dunbur and how can we strike this balance so as to ensure that the media that is supposed uh to be that instrument that will you know build the world we don't use it instead to uh bring for that this uh uh suppression in the the way we give out information especially sensitive information that has to do with war and even the the political interest of countries across

1:10:02 the globe well I think christelle just now made a very good point that uh um any person reporting on something is still a human being with a certain set of uh beliefs and perception and everything else but that's why we call it points of view so it's important to have different points of view being presented uh in the media to have have a balanced understanding of what's happening and of course people in donbas have seen uh their side of the story um if you ask uh people from the B bordering uh let's say regions um or the eastern part of uh of uh Ukraine and its current factual borders uh you will see some other kind

1:10:48 of a story uh but uh what is important to provide is balanced uh approach to uh maybe the very same facts and to see the different stories uh the stories of the uh actor and the stories uh the stories of the one that are uh directly impacted by those um actions so this is uh one of the uh uh one of the most important tasks to be able to uh show the different voices the different points of view and of course when you get to war zone uh it's hard to avoid being uh emotional especially when you're in and out when you don't uh when you don't live there for a long period of time of

1:11:33 course people get used to everything and at some point they get a more cynical uh perception of uh even such things as uh you know shelling and deaths and uh everything else you use humor to protect yourself from the drama and Trauma that you're surrounded with you take uh many things in a very different way because you know how uh uh how sudden death can be that life is not guaranteed for tomorrow so uh the values change and a lot of things change of course all of those uh points are to be taken into consideration but uh people making decisions on whether to supply weapons or not people who vote for that with uh

1:12:19 you know their taxpayer dollar people who uh you know sit on their couches and uh drink their drinks and eat their food discussing the news should uh should be able to uh to get information that would uh add to their uh perception add to their vision of the uh situation before they say oh yes you know let's uh let's send more money to Ukraine or I support Ukraine I stand with Ukraine and whatsoever else they need to really understand what they're standing for and uh what that implies and what the uh increasing weapon Supply um implies in in the context of uh this very conflict because there could have been a peace deal uh two three months

1:13:07 after it started there could have been a peace deal but now uh to reach probably the very same uh the very same thing uh we all need to go through millions of people being traumatized and hundreds of thousands being killed and more Millions being displaced was and uh you know having to start their lives over uh having nothing being disconnected from their you know homes and families and friends and uh all of those things will have effects over generations and generations to come you do not just erase this once you sign a peace deal you do not uh ensure reconciliation uh you do not uh guarantee people actually forgiving each

1:13:53 other for what they have done to each other so the consequences will last for Generations ahead and many of those could have been avoided if not the foreign interference so during the brick Summit when uh um Antonio gutes was U making a point about you know uh the world being one big family I think it was a valuable comment made by Vladimir Putin that even in fam sometimes you have arguments and fights right uh but you need to be able to deal with it to deal with the problem where it happened so uh external uh influence here might be just uh uh making the situation much worse and uh it would have been much

1:14:39 easier to come to a peace deal uh shortly after it started before millions and millions of people were dragged into this uh bloody mass absolutely uh humanity is uh suffering and uh we are looking at the prospect for peace and the role that the media can play in ensuring this peace coming to you uh Crystal now that we have an alternative source of information coming particularly from the private media what the prospect do we or maybe do you think this will have a long way to to go in trying to uh you know convince those that needs to take the the decisions

1:15:26 here we're not only looking at uh Russia and Ukraine coming to the negotiation table we're also looking that the third parties particularly Nations which are uh you know aligned to the K government in having that uh constructive and uh you know strategic peace uh talks or discussions that will lead us to to the uh end of the crisis and of course for peace the return I I think it will still be a long process but we begin to see even in mainstream Western media uh calls for negotiations which was not the case something like six month or one year ago

1:16:13 uh so we see that the fact that there are alternative sources of news at some point is pushing the mainstream media at to begin to tell the truth about what is happening so we begin to see articles um depicting the high corruption in Ukraine uh depicting the bad state of the Ukrainian Army uh depicting the fact that Ukraine is not winning at all but is losing more in a very bad way so um the fact that there is an alternative uh point of view is very important to force the mainstream media to get out of the narrative that they had built and to begin to speak the truth uh and by speaking the truth uh they will help uh pushing for negotiations because of

1:17:00 course um the more there are people informed about what is happening uh the more people will push to put an end to this war We Begin already to see in in uh Western Country that a lot of people will say we have to stop we spent a lot of money uh it's obvious now that Ukraine is not winning the war that it will lose it so we are spending money and weapons for nothing we have to stop that and at some point the the Western uh governments will have to listen to that because it can lead to social protest and and internal problems so at some point they will have to to stop this support and so it will push Ukraine to negotiate so I think the prospect for the moment for peace are

1:17:47 still um not for tomorrow uh let's see also what the influence will be of the new uh US president after the elections I think also a lot will depend on that uh if it's Kamal haris of course we will continue for a huge support for Ukraine if it's Donald Trump let's see if we will apply the the promises he made uh but uh I think that it will still still take a lot of time and especially to break down all these delusional uh uh fakes you know which has been spread by Ukraine by Western propaganda and which have pushed Ukraine into a deadlock uh in this deadlock of we refuse to to to

1:18:34 negotiate with Russia as far as the Russian soldiers are on our territory but okay it doesn't work like that you know so um I I think the media here have a big big role to play uh by speaking the truth the more we speak the truth the more we accelerate uh the launch of a negotiation process uh which can lead to to to a real peace treaty and it's important to do that because now we see that Russia is progressing more quickly than ever during this year uh even Western uh media are admitting and Ukrainian media are admitting that Russia is now progressing and the Russian army is progressing at a pace which is the fastest in the beginning of 2024 uh and uh and we see also the

1:19:22 losses and the desertions in the Ukrainian Army are now increasing at a fast pace so the more Ukraine is waiting the more the damage is on a demographic and psychological point of view for his population and soldiers will be disastrous so I really hope that uh at some point the elections in the US will change the the the the situation uh if it's Donald Trump and if he already applies what he promised uh because if he to cut the help for Ukraine then Ukraine will have to negotiate very quickly because as Jose Bell said if we stop financing Ukraine the war will be over in two weeks indeed uh if we can

1:20:07 stop maybe countries can stop sending our military support uh to Ukraine it will be already a start Point into solving uh the war we just saw the devastation of course uh as a result of shelling where uh you know uh areas are being shuted and if uh According to some pit we do not stop now even the new phase of the the the the region of that the Russian Federation is bringing particularly in Mario pole and elsewhere in the dunas then uh it will be uh another you know Bond of contention and uh this brings us to understanding uh some realities and particularly bringing the role of uh um maybe the

1:20:54 international criminal court with you Julia we are aware that this uh uh legal body actually issued an arrest warrant Russian President Vladimir Putin and we look at the devastations in the dunas interaction with residents in the dbat or in the the next People's Republic will tell you that uh they actually felt some relieved when uh the the Russian came in uh during uh the special military operation and uh then we were looking at uh you know the need for different opinions uh as far as the media is concerned now let's look at uh the the decisions or maybe the move uh

1:21:40 Mandi that the other organizations which actually have a a role to play in solving the crisis uh you know going about it leaving one party and of course uh extending uh uh an arrest warrant to Putin we're looking at the economic sanctions on Putin but then the recent bricks Summit actually underlined that Russia is not isolated as has been the case on mainstream uh media but that is not the underlining Factor at this juncture with the realities on the ground how can we push these multilateral institutional organizations that have a role to play in bringing about a peaceful resolution

1:22:28 uh to the uh Ukraine crisis in today's uh uh you know present World well it is supposed to be the UN and the UN Security Council dealing with this kind of issues but uh we have seen that starting from the '90s the uh un Security Council is not as functional as it used to be and as it was supposed to be because let's say for example uh Yugoslavia was uh bombed uh without any um un Security Council resolution supporting that there have been many military operations that were started without the UN Security Council resolution uh on it uh so uh it's uh not

1:23:15 fulfilling its function because when let's say the United States or NATO uh does what they think uh is uh is important to do uh nothing follows there is no consequence um of uh you know of uh a relatively comparable uh force that could prevent them from doing that and condemnation of uh the UN General Assembly also in practice means nothing so uh those uh institutions they just do not have uh implementation mechanisms that's number one and number two uh at the moment uh their decisions are not uh uh a rule for everyone so there are exceptions at the international Arena

1:24:02 and when NATO thinks that uh they can um you know go in and bomb a country they can always do that we see the conflict between uh Israel and Palestine that also is not really regulated by the uh International uh mediation uh institutions as for the IC the funny fact is that uh the US uh does not support it itself so it just uses it as an instrument and there have been many cases where it became quite obvious that uh it's used as a as an instrument of uh political uh

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