So schützt du dich vor Narzissten - und so NUTZT du sie

0:00 The currency of the narcissist is the ego. Anything that boosts the ego is great for the narcissist. You live in a zeitgeist today where narcissism is glorified. The word narcissism is on everyone’s lips. Whether it's Donald Trump, your ex-wife, or your boss, the label is assigned super quickly. But what is behind it? What is behind the word narcissism? And why the hell are men more affected than women? These are people who are extremely confident in themselves. They are the greats. They think they are great, they feel like great and so on and so forth, while at the same time showing very little empathy. He comes into a room and creates an incredible amount of unrest, and then he manages to position himself very well in this unrest as the person with expert status. I'm

0:46 the coolest, but the world out there hasn't figured it out yet. Yes, of course, Instagram is the language of narcissists. Yes, the grandiose narcissist is very difficult to treat. Yes, because he might think he's being stingy. And then also a self-knowledge. How much of a narcissist is in you or me? More on this in the podcast. [Music] Martin? Yes. Yes. Yes. Today it's about narcissists. Exactly. And are you one? Um, yes, let's get straight into the topic. He has already said yes. So I'll give you a little context on your question in a moment. I was just listening to a long talk about narcissism and we were talking about it during our lunch break

1:32 and you said let's do a podcast about it and that's why we're here now, yes, on this topic. Uh, to your question, do I consider myself a narcissist or am I a narcissist? Probably not. I probably have very little of this part of myself, for the following reasons. Narcissism is, first of all, for someone who, so to speak, perhaps, what is narcissism, to put it a little bit like that, what is it actually? Um, narcissism today is a personality disorder that originally comes from Greek mythology. There is the narcissist, and he should have a long life, in principle. Yes, he was born with incredible beauty . Um, and Echo, another

2:18 Greek mythological figure, yes, who basically repeats everything that someone else has said. That's why the echo, yes, that's where it comes from, fell in love with Narcissus Narcissus Narcissus and he rejected him, well, I'd say. Yes, and then Echo killed herself and the curse was to always repeat that. Hence the echo we hear. Then Narcissus was punished by the gods. He was shown a mirror and he fell in love with his own reflection and could no longer fall in love with other people. He was so in love with himself that - and there are different interpretations as to how it ended - he definitely committed suicide at some point and that is where the name narcissism comes from. Yes, by the way, that's exactly why it

3:04 dies and I think a flower has grown there. That is also the case with the daffodil . Yes, like that. To shed some light on the origins of this . What is narcissism? In psychology, they say that these are people who are extremely confident in themselves. They are the greats. They act like greats, they feel like greats and so on and so forth, while at the same time showing very little empathy. So, so to speak, they have great difficulty connecting with others. By the way, back to Greek mythology, Echo is very often, this figure Echo is very often the counterpart to someone who is in love with a narcissist . Yes, he invests, yes, he calls in, but it doesn't come back. Yes, and as I said, this also means that a great drama is about to unfold. Now I'm doing this, now I'm doing Pu, because

3:51 I still consider myself to be a very empathetic person and I've just jumped away from or escaped from narcissism, so to speak . Now you wanted to know if I 'm a narcissist, right? Yes, I wanted to know if you were a narcissist. I also wanted to know if I am one or maybe I even want to know if I am one, so narcissism first of all, they think they are the big guys. You can say that the currency of the narcissist is the ego. Anything that boosts the ego is hot for the narcissist. Yes, it's really this spiritual concept of ego that the narcissist lives by, status, money, sex, power, all of that turns the narcissist on. All of that is attractive to the um and all other things are

4:37 much less interesting. Um, and the narcissist, for example, classically, you wouldn't find him much in social professions, he's much less represented there. And now I come to your answer as to why I think I have developed this relatively little . My first career choice, and that was also the case because I completed an apprenticeship, was to be a nurse. This is not a classic narcissist thing at this point. Yes, to put it very generally , I am also someone, um, you might not believe it, but um, I don't really like being in the spotlight per se. Well, I do n't like it, I believe you, I like being in social situations and learning to be social because I really enjoy it. I'm very extroverted, no question, but I don't like to brag about myself or anything like that. That's not my thing. This

5:22 makes me feel rather uncomfortable. Ah, okay. That means, so to speak, to show, look here, I am the great, I am the wonderful Martin. I'll explain to you how it works. That's probably not your thing. I can confirm that too. But what I can also confirm is this : "Oh, there's a group, bam, here I am." Exactly, I'm happy to throw myself into it. I am very curious, I am very open, I have, so that is one of my strengths. Um, but for example, if you look at my Instagram account, yes, where I could get status, so to speak, I really don't like using it . I think a lot of things, well, for me it's really like there's no added value at all to putting that in there now. Why should I do this now? I do n't consider myself the greatest. And the narcissist thinks he is the greatest. Yes. Um, another small factor, I was at Tony Robbins' workshop last year and there are, as Tony Robbins knows, there are the

6:09 Six Human Needs, he calls them, the six basic needs of people. And during this exercise, I noticed that the point of significance, that is, considering yourself significant , everything that is brought out in social media, is incredibly weak for me. For me it was more of a point where I thought I needed to work on this more and in a business context , so to speak, in the work that we do, I needed to show myself much, much, much more, because that is much more important for the work that we do. And I noticed that I don't do that at all, we do podcasts, but otherwise I'm relatively little involved in other things. Yes, it's not just for you or that you're putting yourself in the spotlight, it's also like this: you have lovely things to give away and if you don't show what you have to give away or to

6:55 sell, then it's a shame, then people aren't enriched by it, so to speak . Exactly. And that's really not on my agenda. I often have the feeling, more like a classic emposer syndrome, that I think I'm not doing enough. Yes, what I have is not interesting enough. Um, that's not enough. So that's why, no, I do a lot of research, I read a lot, and so on and so forth. Yes, exactly. You will notice that too . So if you as a listener notice, which podcast has Martin prepared, so to speak ? It's always so thoroughly researched, packed with a lot of knowledge , while I'm always a bit lazy and fair about it. Exactly. I, so to speak, you would probably have more of a narcissistic streak because you would rather believe that that is enough . Yes. Yes I'm here. Yes, I did too. I am I am very very, right? I I I admit we talked about it briefly yesterday, I thought it was very, very nice. Um, how do you recognize a bit of the narcissist, so to speak,

7:41 and how do you recognize the other side of that, so to speak? Uh, the narcissist, the narcissist always says me, me, me, me, me. You notice it in the language when you talk to people, it's not always a personality disorder, but people who have a more narcissistic element like to talk more about themselves and then in the relationship there is always the opposite pole, the dependent person, who always likes to talk about others, who always has something to talk about. what is his girlfriend doing, what are his friends doing and so on and so forth. Talk about us, so the narcissist, who, so to speak, someone shares something and would then very quickly present a story about himself and again direct the focus, for example, onto himself, onto his greatness within. Um, very important when it comes to the topic of narcissism, we often think of the grandiose narcissist. This is the person who

8:28 pushes ahead, who considers himself to be stingy and who is in leadership positions, who is confident in himself and who also has a certain arrogance. Yes, like that. So, if you look at the Big personality model , he is extroverted and has relatively little agree, or agreeableness. Yes, he's not nice. Yes, that's exactly why he's capable of confrontation. This is the grandiose narcissist. The other, who is probably much more widely represented in society, is the vulnerable narcissist or, um, what do you call him? Um, wait, I need to take a quick look. The vulnerable narcissism, vulnerable, vulnerable, vulnerable. He's basically convinced I'm the coolest guy, but the world out there has n't figured it out yet. Everyone out there doesn't see that

9:14 . So, he talks a lot, he gives in to the victim mentality much more. If I'm back on the personality model , Big F is also extroverted. So he is outward-looking, self- confident, but has a much higher level of neuroticism, so to speak, anxious. Yes, out there, the world is completely against me. Um, they don't understand it yet, they don't see it yet, but actually I'm the coolest person here and the reason I'm not up there is only because of the others. That has nothing to do with me, that one. to draw attention to myself again. That sounds a lot like the old me, when I was sitting in my shared room and I thought, I understood the world , I understood that women were all stupid and that men

10:00 were all toxic [ __ ] and that's why, I got it, I don't go out because the world is bad. I've created a space for myself, so to speak, in which I can be the greatest, even if there was only me in this space, which was a bit lonely of course, but yes, that sounds like a system that I recognize in a lot of people, I do n't just think that, but I think it's something along the lines of Blackpill or something similar . Okay, I know how the world works. I, the one who writes YouTube comments, get it, but the world out there doesn't. OK. Hey viewers, over 500 hours of video are uploaded to YouTube every minute. That's 42

10:46 complete days of video footage. And let me tell you something? Most of it is never watched by anyone. And this is exactly where my request comes in. Please let us know in the comments what interests you, what you like, and what we should do better. We intend to produce podcasts that really help you and the men out there. And for that we need your feedback, we need your input. If you like our podcast, please give it a thumbs up, subscribe to our channel so you don't miss an episode and please, please, please give us feedback, write in the comments below what is important and valuable to you so that our minute is the minute that is uploaded, that really counts and that changes lives. Thank you very much for that and enjoy the rest of the podcast. You see, in my opinion, the vulnerable

11:31 narcissist is much more likely to be found in internet forums. This is the guy who's been left behind socially, who doesn't realize it, but says, "Hey, I do the coolest stuff ever. It's weird that you don't have any friends." Yes, but that's up to the others, they do n't get it yet. So to speak, the one who stands out because of it and in his world it's just that in his ivory tower it's the others' fault. Yes. And you do n't typically see him in any leadership positions, right? Because he brings too much negative energy with him. Um, but he's just he's anxious and he's somewhere in his own world. But through the social channels we have, he has found a good outlet with us as well. I think it's really important to briefly shed some light on this: it's not a one-size-fits-all situation. You're not simply a complete narcissist or a complete

12:17 non-narcissist. We have different shades of personality, and we only talk about a disorder or an illness when we're no longer socially acceptable. Exactly, when you're no longer able to cope , when it's just too extreme, you're doing yourself harm. So narcissists can also cause great harm to other people . Um, this is particularly important in the context of relationships . If your partner wants to separate, then he or she can do so very well. That is of course quite clear. Sure, but also before that, so to speak, if the person who thinks he's so grandiose that he's not compatible with other people, then that would also be reflected somewhere in the clinic. However, it is more likely that the vulnerable narcissist will end up in the clinic because at some point the pain

13:04 is so bad that he just has to go to the doctor. The grandiose narcissist is very difficult to treat because the thing is, he thinks he's hot and as a rule he's also perceived as more attractive. It is not that per se, but the grandiose narcissist spends more time in front of his mirror, he spends more time trying to make himself look better. There are studies, so there is enough research on this. is objectively not more beautiful, yes, but he spends more time. That means that he gets more out of his predisposition , for example. And within the first 30 seconds, when you bring people into a room and they are supposed to get to know you, the grandiose narcissist is more

13:50 attractive. He is simply perceived as likeable more quickly. It 's more exciting, it's more thrilling, it 's confident, it's more willing to take risks. That's why he's so attractive in the business world . Now where is the disadvantage? So yeah, it's actually pretty cool, right? Yes, I think so too. You're like, okay, I'm perceived as attractive, I give myself power, I'm busy with myself. So, that's a lot of things, you can of course put everything under the word narcissism and then feel bad about it, but so far it sounds pretty cool, honestly. That sounds great at first , until you bring in the community aspect. And that is what the narcissist is not particularly good at. As I said, it's all about boosting his ego. He cares about power, sex,

14:38 status, money. These are the things that drive him. And he interpreted everything in his behavior to mean that he radiates that. So just the terrific guy. But when it comes to creating a form of entrepreneurial corporate culture, then the narcissist is someone who says, I'll take pride in all my successes. But when something goes wrong, it's always someone else's fault. The grandiose narcissist, as can be seen very clearly in politics at the moment, is also very good at getting into a system and causing unrest. Just drop different statements so that the whole system starts to get restless. Yes, Greenland should actually belong to America. The Panama Canal, just a few daily updates, and then you get a yes or an invitation from Selensky and then it

15:24 becomes absolutely dramatic. Yes. To bring in a bit of current politics, that's what the narcissist does. He comes into a room and creates an incredible amount of unrest, and then he manages to position himself very well in this unrest as the person with expert status . However, as I said, this is just to boost his ego. But when it comes to establishing good cooperation in the long term , he's very, very bad at it. For example, in every company there are things that are not included in the employment contract, but you still have to do them. Something like organizing birthday presents. He does n't see any benefit in it, he just doesn't do it. For example, another thing is, um, I've already said it, he doesn't admit his mistakes. It was always different. So the bottom line is, there are

16:10 many of these factors. So anything that has to do with the ability to cooperate is really bad. The bottom line is that it is very good for a company to have a narcissist at the beginning because they are more willing to take risks and are more confident in themselves. That's a good thing, but as a rule, many companies want to get rid of the person relatively quickly because they exploit the system too much for their own benefit and others suffer as a result. M There was, for example, a small one, it's not exactly comparable, there was an experiment like that where they had, it wasn't from people, but from chickens. You had a whole bunch of chickens and you looked, okay, which chickens performed best? Yes, so which ones produce the most eggs? Then we put the chickens together because we thought, that 's really cool, now we have the best of the best together, so to speak . And the result was

16:55 that they laid incredibly poor eggs afterwards . If you looked closely, how were they able to lay eggs so well before? Were these the narcissist chickens? Exactly. They took the most food, so to speak, they chased others away, they took the best from others, so to speak, and others were simply more reserved, agreeable, nicer, more reserved, etc. And that's why it worked very well . If you put a whole bunch of them together , then everyone tried it and that's why nothing worked anymore. Yes. Um, and that's the problem, so to speak, when you have too many narcissists in a company , they only create unrest, because it's all about, I want my status here, I want my ego here, I want to have everything, and there's no ability to cooperate whatsoever, and that's usually the beginning of the end.

17:42 That, that is, mind you, that is just like the grandiose narcissist. The vulnerable narcissist, in particular, has a difficult time with his ability to have relationships, the vulnerable one even more so, because he has, as I would say in a more classic way, he sees himself as a victim, always sees himself as a victim. It can be like this when you first meet someone, that you get the impression, hey, he's really cool, very smart and hmm and the more you spend time with him, the more you get into it, it's your fault, you did it. So much more this finger and because his entire basic feeling is, so to speak, anxiety, he projects an incredible amount. I believe that when you first get to know such people, they don't so much blame you, but rather blame society, women, men, companies, capitalism. So it becomes the

18:29 focus, which is surprising because the narcissist's focus is actually on himself, but so to speak this "ha" is his fault and that's why I can't. Yes, well, interesting. This is the explanatory model. The really big difference is the grandiose narcissist, he is simply less agreeable, less nice, yes, he is confident in himself and I do n't make any compromises. Me first, yes, so to speak and the vulnerable is like that, I am also confident in myself, but those out there, well somehow a bit somehow the world is strange and that is the problem. The others are weird. So, if I have this, what was the first part called again? The first narcissist. Uh, the grandiose narcissist. I always imagine women, right? Exactly. No, that's the grandiose narcissist. Well, no, I hope that's exactly how it

19:15 came across. It's meant to be funny, because that seems like a guy. Narcissism is generally a male issue. It is much more of a men's issue. Um, especially the grandiose narcissist, in any case, because those are the classic male attributes, if so, those are the ones that are played on . Success, power, status, sex, right? A woman who has slept with 100 men , so what? Doesn't have much significance. Yes, it can be relatively easy for a woman to have. Uh, but a man who has slept with 100 women is such a cool guy. Absolutely, right? He checked something too, right? Yes, okay. Good. It's the same with men, I'm just thinking, no, a woman who has built up a company, drives a Porsche and so on, is of course also crazy, but it's also crazy with men. Exactly. Exactly. And these are

20:01 the classic values that are more likely to be taught to men. It's just driven by success status and accordingly it's a grandiose narcissist who is already being encouraged more and more by the culture. This is more attractive for you . That's why you tend to see more men in there. Um, the vulnerable narcissist, as I said, that's a rather dark topic. Yes, that's the thing, and many women who identify more as victims would probably find themselves in that situation. Yes, my ex-partners are all to blame, uh, the juvenile court is to blame. So, where then a lot of things then go outwards, I'm so great etc. So you would find that there too. Classically, yes, narcissism is more of a male thing. You can see it that way. Yes. And so, how do I differentiate whether

20:46 I'm just a guy who wants to build a cool company or someone who just wants to say, "Hey, I just think money is cool, or power is cool, or sex is cool, because it's my purpose in life." How do I differentiate between whether it's just , hey, this is just my fun in life, or this is my disorder in life? How can I differentiate between the two? Especially from the outside, this narcissism label is quickly attached. So, almost every relationship that fails, one partner always tells the other, "You 're the bad narcissist." I hear that all the time in coaching sessions and everywhere. It's always like that. Narcissism has become the new buzzword for the bad ex-partner. But in my opinion, there can't be that many narcissists yet . And on the other hand,

21:32 well, if you put a question mark on it, how do I recognize it? How do I recognize if I'm a narcissist? Am I or not? Because narcissists in particular have such a difficult insight into their illness, right? Yes, absolutely. So those on the one hand, no, it has become a buzzword. It's just a simple label and let's be honest, every advice book basically says that you, as a man, should take the lead in the relationship. Yes, and anyone who takes that to heart, and that is also a wish of many partners, that the man just comes along and says, let's do this, let's do this. But then, when there is a crisis, it can very quickly become a yes, he was over my head the whole time , he just wanted to do his own thing. Yes, it's also a very simple explanatory model. Um, that's a bit about it. Um, what you can tell most is how

22:18 the person reacts under stress? Do they remain empathetic? Can they accept criticism? Uh, is they open to criticism in this context or does they always blame others? Um, are they prone to violence, to Aggression, to anger? The narcissist, when cornered, yes, he beats up his partner. Yes, it's quite simple. Yes, you want to break up. Yes, we want to see that again. Something like that . Yes, he's integrative. Um, that's what, well, if it's just about, so to speak, normal behavior, like I'm just driven, then it's like, okay, you 're driven, you're up for it, but at the same time you're also very social, empathetic, you can care for others, others can understand you, so you take a bit of time for that and say: "Yes, but that's our mission. How cool is that?" So, we're

23:06 standing here together, we're doing something, we're achieving something together, not me achieving something and you following along, so to speak. That 's the big difference with a narcissist. I know where I'm going and healthy self-esteem would be I believe that I can do it and together we can do it. We'll do it together. I'm interested in your opinion. Please criticize me so I can improve things. Yes, I want that, so to speak, and you'll only really notice it in a crisis. So. Ah, that's the do, because my next question would have been something like this: "Hey, how do I recognize narcissistic characters, for example, on a date? So how do I recognize early on what kind of personality disorder I am getting myself into ? Very difficult. The

23:51 thing is narcissism. There are three categories in psychology. There are also three WS, there is weird, wild and worried. These are the three things that psychology uses to categorize illnesses. There are such large clusters where things are just weird, it 's schizophrenia. I hear what others don't hear, I see something, but he's in a strange mood. That's weird. Warried is the fearful one, he is simply afraid of the world, he is paranoid, etc. Wild is classic, so the narcissist falls into this category, among others. It's exciting, it's interesting, it 's a bit over the top, it's kind of lively. So, as I said, this great guy , he's so exciting, he's fascinating. And accordingly, on

24:37 the date he is often just incredibly interesting. He's sexy. He is usually sexier in job interviews because he is more confident in himself. It's quite difficult to recognize this at first. Very difficult. Yes, very difficult. I always thought it was like this, I have such a nice image, because this topic between narcissistic personality traits, I'll call it that , because we are not all narcissists, and also codependent personality traits, you find that very often in relationships and you actually find it on dates too, because you can imagine it like this : when a codependent personality goes on a date , they are the person who always says "you, you, you", so to speak, who is very focused on the other person, who is always, constantly, and who is

25:23 not that good at talking about themselves . So, focusing on yourself is very, very difficult for this person . And then when there's a person like that on the date and they basically keep saying, "Hey, ah, what a great thing you're doing and how are you and where do you want to go and where are you and where is your past and so on." Then, of course, it never sounds good when there's another person who's on first name terms the whole time, right? When two codependents try to date each other , it's a constant ping-pong game and they find each other uninteresting. Just like when two narcissists date each other, because they each say, "Yes, look, I'm me," and the other says, "No, but look, I'm me here," and the whole thing just clicks into place for a date the moment a " you" person and an "I" person meet. Then the

26:08 I can say, "Look, I'm doing this," and the other person: "Yes, right, you're doing that." And then the fireworks, so to speak, occur, which is why these two personality traits are so attracted to each other, because the narcissist gets his validation, because it's all about him, and the choir addict does n't get his validation, but his purpose is to focus on someone else, not on himself. And then these character traits emerge. Strong self-confidence, deep friendships, a contribution to society, and success with women. All of these are aspects of a successful man. There's nothing wrong with missing some of these things in your life. The thing is, with every day that you wait, If you don't change anything, it will become increasingly difficult to

26:56 turn your brother around. It will become more difficult to adjust your life's course . In other words, you're wasting precious time because you're not living up to your potential. We want to help you look in the mirror in the morning with the certainty that you're on the right path , on the path to living out your potential, transforming your life into strength, clarity, and happiness. If you want to know what this plan could look like for you, then sign up for a free initial consultation with us. You'll find this in the info box. There, we'll find out what your next steps are to become a more holistic man. Exactly. So yes, what the narcissist sometimes does,

27:41 he can also generate status through his partner, for example, it's called a trophy spouse, like, he's someone who says, you've gotten really fat, do more exercise, for example, bigger boobs. For example, I'll get the money. You get the bigger one or the one for whom beauty is overly important. So, how good your partner looks is more important than how well you can connect with her. For example, something like, " It's important how you look in my passenger seat." The other men should be drooling over you. Then I know you're my trophy. Woman, she should match my Porsche. Exactly. It sounds a bit sexy, but also a bit sick. Yes. Um, the same here, my child, it's not just my child, but it

28:27 's my child who is the best in her year with this and that. Yes, it's always emphasized, you have to achieve this and that, and this and that is special. And if you don't achieve that, then there's a withdrawal of love, then there's a withdrawal of closeness, so that's where all the problems come in that then simply arise in partnerships or in parent-child relationships, because that's an extension of the trophy. My child, for example, is my status symbol. If you don't fulfill the status, then you have no meaning for me. But how do I differentiate here again, because it sounds like this: if, for example, I have my son, he'll be starting school at some point, and I naturally have a need for him to get good grades, because I know that with better grades he'll probably get along better in the world . So is it my narcissistic personality disorder that's affecting my child, or is it simply my goodwill that he has a good

29:13 life? That's quite simple. If you meet another family and you say, here, this is my child, by the way, he's the best in the class. Then it would be very clear where your preference lies. If you were to introduce your child like this, yes, or if you were to introduce your partner, so to speak, like this—this is my academic partner, by the way, she got an A in physics or something like that. Yes, then she might like that, oh, that 's nice. M yes, I Oh, that's really great. But if you did that 100 times, at some point everyone would ask themselves, wait a minute, is this still about me as a person, or is this just the label I have here, the one you're showing off? So, it's about the showing off at the end. That's the big difference. Is the cause of narcissism genetic, or is

29:59 it psychological? So can I, can it be, is it, so to speak, written down: "Hey, narcissism, tough luck, are you just trying to deal with it now, or is this something I can, in quotation marks, treat and change?" Ah, there's research, so it's basically like that every decade, the opinion changes on this, and right now the opinion is 40 to 50% genetics, 10 to 20% parents, 20 to 30% is environment. But if it manifests itself genetically, then it must have a benefit. have. Yes. For society, it has. On the one hand, you're just faster, you'll be more successful on the dating market. It needs leaders, yes, they simulate leadership qualities very well.

30:45 They're not necessarily the best leaders, but they're risk-averse, they're convinced of their ideas, right? That also has a social benefit, and the thing is, it's probably the case that within a society, 3 to 5% are narcissists. So there's the dark triad type. Narcissism is one of them, and they make up 3 to 5% of society. And if, if a narcissist, so to speak, actually in a tribe, yes, in such a primitive people, if someone only thinks about themselves the whole time, they'll eventually be killed, then at some point, if they're, so to speak, the trade will be a bit excluded. It doesn't always have to be murder or manslaughter, right? Yes, I mean, it's the same with chimpanzees . So, if you cause too many problems , Then you're gone. Quite simple. Yes, well, that's just how it was kept under control. We live in a different time these days.

31:30 We live in a very narcissistic zeitgeist. Let narcissists hunt. We live in a zeitgeist where narcissism is very glorified, and as a result, this proportion is increasing overall. Yes, of course. So Instagram is the mouthpiece of narcissists. Yes. Yes. And that's quite clear, right, if the genetic preference is very clear, then parent-child is very likely, and there are enough studies with twins who were separated at birth and so on, and it's becoming increasingly clear that genetics is becoming more and more prevalent, right? Of course, you still have parental influence, quite clearly, and you have environmental influence. So, what kind of children did your child play with? That's quite clear. Did

32:16 you have many or few resources? Was there a school, wasn't there one, was there a crisis at the time, an economic crisis, all of that. plays a role, of course, but currently it's more like genetics is a there is n't one G, there isn't one way to go, you have that too, you kind of look for it, it does n't exist. Yes, the narcissistic going doesn't exist, just like the momentum going and so on. Exactly. Yes, but it is, it's just too obvious. But when I look at small children, my small child, your small child, they are extreme, they are pure narcissists, they are me, I, I feed myself, I don't give a damn how you're doing. Give, give me something to eat, right? Thirsty, you do it, you, you. They have to , they can't manage the world on their own , but um, that means that's normal, that's not, yeah, um, narcissism also tends to be something, especially at a young age, it's not a bad thing. So, if you're confident in yourself at the beginning

33:01 and want to go your own way , that's a good thing. And as a rule, narcissism is associated with Less with age, because the thing is, um, if you say, if you still want to be the hottest guy in the room at 70, that 's difficult. So maybe that correlates with testosterone levels somehow, I don't know. But it's like this: when people are young, they are generally narcissistic, and the older they get, this part decreases. They just become weak. They simply no longer know what is good and they no longer have the skills to be so great. Exactly. It gets more and more difficult to maintain this facade with age, and that's why people tend to become softer with age, let 's put it that way. Yes. And it might have something to do with hormonal changes

33:47 or simply with life experience , that at some point they realize, I know a few people who at some point realize, okay, that my Porsche and my XYZ are somehow nice, but just the admiration doesn't make me happy anymore, right? Something, but like I'm coming out now, so let's assume that I don't think anyone listening here, or maybe a few, maybe you're this 100% narcissist. But we all have narcissism in us, more or less, or at least a part of us more. So, like, when I go on a date, for example, to use that lovely word "I" again, then I've noticed in the past that I like to talk about myself and I correlate well with women

34:34 or have a good time with them, who also tend to be more focused on me . That means I do have a bit of narcissistic personality traits, which is an advantage. So should I just treat them perfectly? I shouldn't even bother with therapy. Yes, so that's for those people, for those people, so to speak, who always put themselves too high up in the spotlight, they have to learn to be a bit narcissistic . That's true, of course, there are so many, if you Say, nurses and all the other healthcare professionals here, they 're always the ones who always talk to you, "you, yes, you, patient" or "you, boss" and everything else, and they withdraw so much that at some point they fall flat on their faces because they're not noticed, if they always say, "No, I'm not important, I'm not important, I'm not important." Absolutely, absolutely. And it's

35:21 very valuable for them to learn to make themselves more significant, so to speak. That has great advantages for them. Yes. Um, the narcissist then has to learn to... when it 's too much, no, not when it 's halfway within a healthy average. That means they have to learn not to take themselves so seriously and to withdraw and focus on others . Exactly. There's, it's called the CPR model, it's three letters. Yes, exactly. CPR, and it's number one about compassion, that's the C, that stands for real compassion, team spirit, humanity. So, this, how do you feel right now? Yes, something like that, for example. I know, um, that's when you

36:08 're in therapy and the grandiose narcissist is very difficult to treat, yes, because he might think he's the one being mean and if he feels like you don't think I'm the coolest anymore, okay, he 's [ __ ], bye. Yes, but tell me, there's a relationship of trust, um, then just giving him homework like, every evening, take 10 minutes and remember a conversation you had today with someone else and then ask yourself, how did he feel? These are completely new worlds. So, this aha, feeling into it, developing compassion. For example, um, passion, that's the second thing, so C Compassion. Passion is enthusiasm for something, not to boost your ego, not to gain status with it, but because you say, it's really a great thing. So This monthly bonus,

36:54 if I'm in sales, is n't about me earning the bonus, but rather we all benefit as a team. Yes, for example, there are companies that say: "Okay, if you make this much sales , this is your bonus." And if you make a certain amount of profit , a certain amount of sales, then the whole team benefits. Yes, and that's a classic: the narcissist says: "Okay, I'll give it my all until it gets to the point where it benefits me, and after that I'll be a bit like Leo the Lion. I 'm fed up now, I don't care about anything anymore. It's okay, it doesn't benefit me anymore." Yes, and passion is about saying , "Hey, look, you're really so excited about the bigger mission, not because it's good for your ego, but because it's really good for everyone." Yes, to direct your gaze there, so to speak,

37:40 and you can also practice that, just like that. Yes, what is the greater meaning of your life independent of you? And the third thing is responsibility, which means taking honest responsibility for yourself and for others. Yes, so if there are mistakes, then you really have to say: "Hey, yes, I made that mistake." And these are tasks like reflecting every day or in coaching or wherever: what could you have done wrong ? Now, honestly, what could you have done wrong ? Yes, I have nothing wrong. Be honest about what happened, where you didn't communicate well, where, and so on and so forth. And to learn that, yes, those are, so to speak, these three things. Um, so compassion, enthusiasm for a cause

38:25 and a sense of responsibility. That's what narcissists are working on, because in the end, as I said, it's about moving away from status and more towards, how do you say, the ability to relate to others. I am now a little bit calmer and thoughtful, because all of that, the compassion that you mentioned, and also the passion, I have all of that, and also the ability to admit mistakes. I'm very, very quick when I realize, okay, I really made a mistake here, to say, "Hey, my mistake, I'm sorry." And that's the way it is, I take responsibility for it. Oh good. So, that's how it is, I find it so exciting when you tell it like that , on the one hand I notice , h okay, I definitely have a bit of a narcissistic personality trait, but on the other

39:11 hand I have also integrated everything, so to speak, how do I get out of this very well from my own perspective. A really well- known example, I'm taking this from the German-speaking world, where you can recognize the narcissist quite well , is the character Stromberg. Yes, Stromberg thinks he is the greatest and acts like it. Well, if you know the show, no, that's the sh*t. The embarrassment factor is extremely high, but it's always like it's someone else's fault, the others aren't doing it right. Yes, and then he actually brings a lot of chaos into the mix, because he also aligns himself a lot with the opinions of those above in order to get to the top, but he always treats those below him like dirt. That's a very classic narcissist, yes, in terms of behavior , which you can see in the series

39:58 or Dr. Strange, if you come from the Marvel Universe, yes, he identifies himself with his abilities. He's a surgeon. Surgeons are classic narcissists. Yes, there is a very high proportion of narcissists. So not every surgeon is a narcissist. Very important, very important, but the frequency is simply higher there, just like with surgical leaders in general and so on. Exactly. The frequency is just increasing, right? And he says something like this: "My entire value is determined by my surgical skills. And especially in this film about Dr. Strange, he gets injured at some point, his hands stop working, and then he goes down the drain, so to speak, because everything his ego was based on is no longer there. But he 's so out of touch that everyone else is more or less trash to him . Cockroaches don't have much meaning. If I walk through the world with this image that you're describing and all these ideas, and

40:44 start to analyze the personalities that surround me psychologically, how can I say with any degree of certainty, hey, okay, all right, that's a bit, that's a bit more than that, he's definitely more of a narcissist, and how can I make sure that I'm not just using that as a word to belittle others, to say, yeah, typical, right? Yes, absolutely. My boss is such a pure narcissist, this [ __ ] and my partner, my ex-partner anyway. So, how can I do that? Do I have a somewhat objective measurement method to determine whether my boss, partner, friends are simply narcissists or whether they are just normal people who perhaps have a slightly narcissistic personality trait. As I said, it doesn't happen

41:30 quickly. It's easy; you just have to observe the person a bit, and, um, I'm a big fan of, oh, what's her name? She's a forensic scientist, she has a very distinctive haircut, a German woman, she did a whole series of videos at Gedankentanken. Um, I know, her name is Susan, I think . And, um, she once said, among other things, I thought that was really good advice. If you want to find out whether the new guy you've met, whether he or she is kosher, bring them with you to your friends. Yes, but someone with any kind of personality trait, they won't, under any circumstances, be able to get excited. Other people simply notice that. If you have good friends , they'll tell you, what's wrong with that person? And that's a marker, for example, where I, no, with friends, narcissists, for example, it's often the same: if they

42:17 see someone and they have no value for them, they treat them as worthless. For example, to give another example, in this case, I would say a more vulnerable narcissist would be the character Draco Melfoy from Harry Potter. Yes, he's very self-confident, very snobby, very rich, yes, but he can't really do anything about it. He just got into the family, and everyone else is to blame for the fact that he's not seen much more . That he, so to speak, um, the evil Griffindors and Harry Potter, he only has his fame, he uses it to boast, he has his little crowd around him, but he always has them down. He has Crabby and Go, but if there are any, so to speak, where he sees a stepping stone to the top, then he's really just an ass-kisser

43:03 . Yes, and as I said, you could classify him as a bit, definitely narcissistic and more, I think, a vulnerable narcissist, like, ah, evil Harry, that's his arch enemy, he has it so easy, yes, it's his fault, yes, he 's oversensitive. So, now coming back to your actual question, how can I find out? Observation, other people, getting feedback from other people , see how he reacts under stress. I think that's very important. So, does the other person blame him, can he admit his own mistakes ? Is he very manipulative, is he scheming? Especially in companies, does the other person get disgusted when people suddenly no longer act according to his principles? So, so to speak,

43:49 how does he react when his status is being questioned? That's the best way to gauge how he ticks. You can see it on his Instagram profile, you can see that when I imagine, hey, there's someone who's really good at that, putting themselves in the spotlight. Is that a sign of it? Then it does have a kind of catalytic effect when I look at these modern social media, you talked about it briefly earlier, that they tend to push narcissists to the forefront? Absolutely. I think Keie Cample, I watched this lecture series on narcissism, he 's the pope in the field of narcissism, Keie Cample. And I think he

44:34 told it so wittily. He said he had to learn how to take selfies because when a man takes a selfie, it was like, he was always asked in his class, like, hey, when I look at profiles of men When I look at them , strangely enough, they always have a fish in their hand, yes, from fishing. And it was like: "Yeah, why do they always have a fish in their hand?" Yes, because that's the only situation where a guy thinks, take a picture of me. Look at what a great bass I caught here. Yeah, any normal guy wouldn't think, just take a picture of me like that, because it's like that, doesn't it? Who cares? What I look like? Those are the women, the bigger narcissists, so to speak. So, in that area, yes. So, when it comes to external status, so to speak, it tends to be more. Um, but this driven nature in the business world, it's more the men. So,

45:21 women are even more important to them; feedback from others is also important. So they would also more often portray themselves as victims and simply get so much positive feedback about their beauty, and women are also a bit more anxious about their neuroticism. Yes, so from the Big F model. Uh, that means presenting yourself differently, so to speak, and then getting positive feedback works too. And very importantly, probably the big Instagram followers of women will also have a pronounced element of narcissism within them. Absolutely clear, I suspect, right? It seems a bit as if it's simply a theory that narcissism is actually distributed equally between men and women, it's just that men have it easier, and women have to do it secretly, through the

46:08 back door, or I don't know exactly if you can agree with that. So, Instagram-only fans, right? The Kadeshians, the Kadeshians family, that's essentially pure narcissism, and yes, while in the past you basically had to have an entire camera crew and so on to stage yourself, today it's become incredibly easy, self-staging. That means you see more of the narcissists in the foreground in the virtual world , the ones who simply present themselves. stage themselves. Women have the advantage of generating many more clicks through their feminine charms . That's why it's a lot easier, so to speak. In clinical terms, as I said, men tend to have the edge in that regard. But it's an interesting theory, so to speak , if you're

46:55 dealing with a guy who uploads a new Instagram post almost every day, and they all look pretty good, and who also puts out several pairs of shorts a day, you can be pretty sure that he definitely has a pronounced narcissistic element. So what's the benefit? The only benefit, so to speak, if you realize, okay, he has a company and he's using it to market his product, then it could well be that he just says, hey, I'm not really up for it , but it has to be done. I know it works. Um, but honestly, if I do n't have my phone in my hand for a day, I think it's great. I have I don't feel like it at all. Something like that, you'd notice, okay, he's just capitalizing on it. He's figured it out, it's important these days for marketing, but actually, it's a good friend

47:42 of mine, for example, who's in the fitness industry, and I've known him for a really long time, and he's super ambitious. He just really wants to do sports, but at the same time, he knows, okay, he can earn a bit of money, and that's why he keeps posting videos of himself doing really crazy stuff like muscleups and handstands on parallel bars and so on. He's from the whole calisthenics area, and I asked him, "Hey, you're pretty steep," and he said, "Yeah, man, you just have to do it these days." He does n't really feel like it, but it's necessary to put yourself in the spotlight a bit . It's like dating. You have to learn to polish up your stories a bit, to put yourself in the spotlight a bit. pack. Because that 's simply an important marker for interest. Is there any way,

48:27 if I suspect I 'm a narcissist? Well, I've now determined for myself, no, or at least a very social narcissist. Are there any kind of tests you can do to really find out, hey, narcissist, yes, no? Are there any kind of standardized tests? Well, there are a whole range of different standardized tests. The nice thing is, in principle, a narcissist is relatively easy to diagnose. Is it with the question, are you a narcissist? In parentheses, narcissist means all that to you? So with a brief explanation, and then you're probably a narcissist. Yes, definitely, I'm proud of that. Exactly, it's relatively, so it's really pretty basic and simple. So the hit rate is very high, and with women, it's like: "Hey, are you a narcissist?"

49:12 So then it will be harder, right? Because if you follow my thesis that women simply have to find another way to live out their narcissism, then it will be harder to recognize. But okay, well, more men listen to us than women. I think, as I said, the women we have in mind right now, I think they would also say yes. Mm. Well, no, without knowing them, without now, no, this is completely out of the question here. Shirin David is a relatively well-known artist in Germany. Um, the one where I think, if you asked her if she was a narcissist , I would probably say yes, because she's proud of it, like, hey, I am my brand, I am what I have, I really do something for you, I 'm a cool woman, I'm also a role model for many other women. I'm going to show the men how it's done here properly. I may be

49:58 completely wrong here. I'm just talking about a few interviews that I've seen and simply of a certain self-confidence that she brings out in various formats . Um, and I think, no, we think, just because we see a lot of women online on Instagram who have an insane number of followers, that's not the reality out there. That's always very important. It's only a very, very small proportion of women who like to put themselves in the spotlight. They only work incredibly well on these media because they have a different appeal. So you as a guy, in order to get a nice one for your butt, so to speak, you first have to imitate with some other status symbols . Yes, so what do you bring to the table that millions of—now

50:44 I'm going to be really nasty— undersexed women say gold click. I follow that, right? On the other hand, yes, when you, as a woman, play up your feminine charms , there are just an insane number of men who just find it hot and then click on it. But it can also be a reason. It gives this beautiful picture, right? So men start at the bottom of the mountain and women start at the summit. Mountains. And for men, it depends on how well they manage to climb to the top . And for women, it depends on how well they manage not to fall down over time. Yes, and of course, it's also clear that perhaps men are more affected by narcissism, because that's the better survival strategy or the better biological strategy to say: "Hey, look here, I'm so strong, I can do that." So,

51:30 overall, for women, it's very advantageous financially these days . You can simply make a lot of money. For men, it's so to speak, a narcissistic personality is successful on many levels . So, money, status, etc., right? Also simply the availability of sex, from women. Yes, as I said, for most women, that's not the marker for somehow getting a guy into bed, but rather the marker for finding someone for a relationship. Yes, but that's the man-woman dynamic, it's relatively clear. Yes, it is, it is Exciting. Um, yes, and there are a lot of things changing in society, I think, so to speak. If you look, if a woman is reasonably relaxed about playing with her sexuality, even

52:15 online, then she can earn a good, normal income relatively quickly. I recently heard from Ben, ah, even much more. Yes. Yes, exactly. I recently heard from Ben's unscripted , there was someone who did Only Fans, and I listened to it and noticed, um, so either she played it well and is actually a very, very smart personality, or she was just, she was just out and about. She was like, "Hey, I am just the way I am and I do Only Fans, and above all, she doesn't really do this, this, this naked part, but she does a lot of relationship stories." But what came across to me during the conversation was that she does n't have a big plan. She just goes along with it and can play with her charms, and that way she gets the attention she needs. To probably earn something between

53:03 €4,000 and €8,000 with it. Yes, easily, if it works out even a lot more. Yes, with her it was really okay, you could extrapolate it, sort of. I don't know, but I don't think that's unfair. Yes, that's absolutely unfair. Well, it works with monkeys too, if you, so to speak, monkeys, chimpanzees. I think that was the experiment because there are experiments. How many bananas would they exchange for photos of female monkeys, female chimpanzees? That's impressive. Women, female chimpanzees don't give up a lot of bananas, but males are happy to give up some of their share, and the same is true for us, right? Well, it's just like these days and Only Fans is based, it 's not like you have a €1,000 membership or something, that's only a few euros a month. It 's only a few euros a month. Yes, exactly. And that's just great. Then

53:48 I can XY Z see or I have the feeling that I'm somehow part of their circle of friends and so on and so forth. And we men are simply much more dependent on it in that regard . But again, the narcissist wouldn't be the guy in front of the camera per se, so he won't necessarily take his clothes off in front of the camera and so on, but he would be the pimp behind it. Yes, he's the managing director behind it, because that's where the money is to be made . When I watched the podcast, I was like, hey baby, if I were your pimp, I could really double, triple, quadruple the money, but well, luckily, I've built myself another company, which fulfills me a lot more, so to speak, as a man. Building status with your body is tricky. Yes, it's possible, that's clear.

54:34 But as I said, if you have big muscles, you get the most applause from guys, because that's exactly the topic. The big muscles, the only impress other men, women a little bit. Yes, it's a little different with men, with women, it's a little different with men. What do I do now when I want to? That's a whole other topic. I think that's so interesting on the one hand, and on the other hand, because it's so easy for women, at least for a certain amount of time, to be on Uni Fans or Instagram or whatever, and because we men naturally get involved. Without us men, it would n't exist, right? That's the nice example with the bananas. But I think that's a whole other topic, where we can go into more depth when the time comes. Um, so, I'd like to come back to narcissism, so if I

55:19 notice while listening, maybe , yeah, okay, well, I might have a little more than just slight tendencies, but like, yeah, man, dude, if nobody can give me anything, if nobody can give me anything back, then I need the Not in my life either, and it's important to me to have money and I need it, and that's really driven when I, when there's a danger that I might not have the money or might not have the power, and so on and so forth. So when I notice that as a listener, what do I do then? What, how, or that when I notice not only, okay, I'm noticing something about myself, because a narcissist says, okay, it's great to be a narcissist, but when I also notice that the dark sides of it are simply appearing in my life. So relationships are becoming difficult for me, I notice, okay, the meaning,

56:05 a kind of meaningfulness or belonging to a community or something like that, are the dark sides of narcissism. When I notice something like that, okay, that I have tendencies , how do I deal with it? How do I approach it? That's a tough cookie, man. That's a pretty tough one, I'll tell you honestly. Um, so the grandiose Narcissists, as I said, often fail to even get it. It's more like, they think they're the coolest. Yes, the vulnerable ones usually notice it because the pain keeps getting worse. Yes, and there are actually, I'll come back to your question in a minute , but the vulnerable ones, right? There are also more and more of these people who are into LSD therapy, magic mushrooms, ketamine, and all that stuff.

56:52 So it shows with the vulnerable ones, that can actually bring something. Well, because you can give them medication so that this inner pain, this insecurity, so to speak, becomes less. But the grandiose narcissist, that doesn't help much with him. So he is basically lost. The grandiose narcissists are so are not completely lost. But you really have a tough road ahead of you. Um, just to give an example, right? An LSD trip or a magic mushroom trip, where you meet God, so to speak. For many people it's like, wow, I have a humbleness towards creation out there. And with the grandiose narcissist, this might be more likely. You, I have seen God within myself. Yes, I have seen God. Have you seen God yet? Yes, I have done Easka before. Yes, I have Easka five times. I have spoken to God five times already. If you put in a little effort,

57:38 maybe you can do it too. Yes, so to speak. That's a bit of the dynamic behind it and it 's really hard work in terms of taking myself back, questioning myself, following compassion, this CP model, so to speak. And from what I've heard, with narcissists who are really so very grandiose, they really have to make a very hard cut. Well, that 's really pretty crazy. They're mostly about a complete withdrawal from life, only to deal with themselves not in its grandiose form, but rather with a certain humility . A bit like the path of the Sidata, if you like, of Buddha, yes, into the desert, tralala, giving up everything, etc. And then it can happen that he comes out again and

58:24 says: "Wow, yes, I live for the community." So, he has such deep humility within him. But as I said, to really treat such grandiose narcissists. I want to, I hope you don't get prosecuted now, but imagine Trump sitting on your therapy coach. Good luck my friend. Good luck my, I would say, I would like to take a look at such an interesting personality, but therapy, oh my God, no, absolutely interesting. By the way, with Trump too, that's a bit of a thing, you said, you also asked, how can I recognize that? So, if you ask the right and left camps, Trump is an extrovert. Then everyone says, "Yes, yes, he's definitely an extrovert." But if you ask the two camps, how agreeable is it? So how pleasant is it? Then the left, the Democratic Party, say, they're

59:11 not at all, you can't negotiate with him. He does n't give in, he's just really stubborn and the Republicans say , no, he's actually still very willing to compromise, he's holding back, he's, he's also very open to it. And that's exactly the thing, yes, you narcissists, right, if they appeal to you, then maybe you do n't even notice these negative trades because they're okay for you too. Yes, that would be perfectly fine . Could well be. Keie Campel, for example, also had Neutron Jack in the management area, or something like that. He was a really famous guy in the management ranks because anyone who did n't perform was thrown out. He actually got a nickname and it was like,

59:56 "Hey, he's really cool, he's really great for companies until he kicked you out." It was like, damn, or then later on there were, I think, some cases where the company just drove itself into the wall and it was like, hey, how could that happen? It's been a long time since I've seen him, but friends said his job was to go into supermarkets for years to see what the problem is, who's performing and who's not performing, and his job was to go in there and see what's going on and throw out the people who are n't performing well. He was right about that and you really need a great, great ability to deal with conflict. Absolutely. I think there is one more thing that is important. Um, because on the one hand, I know some men who have more than one shade of narcissistic personality. But I also know more than a few men who have the

1:00:41 opposite, they are these you do you people who always get involved with narcissists . That means that if you listen as a listener, and I think that's an important point that you should address, if you listen as a listener and think, yes, it's totally my ex-partner or that I always get the narcissistic bosses and so on and so forth, then there's a bit of a tendency to say, yes, okay, the bad narcissists are to blame for the fact that I'm feeling bad. But if you look at the people who like to get involved with narcissists, then they bring a whole lot of their own stuff into the equation, namely that they don't take themselves seriously, that they do n't even know what their values are, that they don't even know what their goals are and so on and so forth. So, if you recognize yourself in how you attract narcissists into your

1:01:28 life, then it's a good task for you to take yourself more seriously. And that is just as difficult a task. Just as the narcissist has to sit down and train empathy, the dependent person has to sit down and train empathy within themselves and look, okay, what do I want and where am I prepared to assert this in the ability to deal with conflict, even with other people. the, so you're saying, yes, I think that's a good example, a good consideration, what if I find out that I'm in the relationship and I'm with the narcissist?

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