The Villains Trilogy - Omega, Davros and Master | Doctor Who 40th Anniversary Releases

0:00 this is Jeffrey beavers and you will obey me you will listen to the Sirens of audio I think people will be very interested in when that comes out but um I'm not allowed to say but you can't tell us of course we've never heard that before have I'm one of those annoying people who says oh I can't possibly talk about that I'm doing this but I can't tell you you'll edit this bit out will you no staying in yes we just had a dog attack just make sure's okay a dog attack so one of your dogs attacked somebody dog no well one of our dogs tack the other dog and then I set the what' you turn your microphone off for oh you didn't want to hear that yes I

0:47 did would have made for great podcasting how was that again yeah no way he did not use that either don't you dare use that sorry see that little red button in the corner that St you watch what you say Omega the fact and the fiction isn't it the facts and the trivia what do I co say facts and the fiction oh yeah you're right let me start again justd just walk just that was phick this should be on the stage this should be a theatrical production and there is the thing which I'm not allowed to talk about um but thank you for bringing that up again yeah oh we got doing this mate it's a bit too

1:33 cringy I tolerate you hey it's okay to be [Music] cringy [Music] good day audio files this is the Sirens of audio the show that explores the universe of Doctor Who in the audio

2:20 medium I'm Dwayne and I'm Phillip good day dra good day audio files good day Phillip how are you I am excellent thank you to way how are you going yeah not too bad not too bad uh I'm very excited today because um we have the the great pleasure of the company of Mr Ian cubc how are you Ian hello fine thanks thank you both for um inviting me to come and have a chat today because I really really love what you guys do I think You' you've got a really unique podcast and you can see it on YouTube and the and you've done so many great interviews um with so many people that have appeared and worked on big finishes it's it is it's almost as better than the big

3:07 finish podcast I didn't say that well thank you yeah we're certainly we're certainly blessed with who we spoken to and I hope you've done a five star review philli did you just cut ear off I think he was keeping he was going to keep going keep going keep going oh no you're finished no we really appreciate I was get embarrassed with anymore that dway I had to cut him off now if if we're watching you on if we're watching you on YouTube uh we can see uh the spearhead signs behind you so you you're getting in that publicity so oh yeah absolutely tell us all about that so spearhead started during um lockdown um there were other other organizations across the world doing um sort of Zoom chats like

3:55 we're doing now but like with actors from Doctor Who and various other shows and I I noticed I said well I thought this is great and there were some people who were doing them for free as well and that was like that's great and lovely but I thought well actors want to be paid you know and there were some organizations I'm sure that had the reserves to pay people uh and some organizations were doing them purely for charity but I was said I thought well why why don't I do it where it's like a convention where you have your panels uh instead of a photo studio you have a a sort of smaller talk a more intim talk which I called Matrix moments um and then also offer autographs as well so people were sending me in um things and then I would pass it on to the uh to the actor and

4:41 then they would send it back to me so there was a lot of toing and throwing to post offices but I think the the biggest sort of um tick to my bow or or something words to that effect was um persuading Mr Tom Baker to do a zoom 40 years to the day that lopolis episode 4 went out so he ow so um because he didn't do anything else he hasn't done anything since and he's done a he's done a signing for me and for another we tried yeah yeah but I um we got close he came close yeah but I managed to to persuade Tom and it was a lovely chat um uh we had like 10 minutes before just um sort of um talking about

5:27 things and yeah it it was lovely and it was great to see all the fans they were able to ask him questions as well and he was able to interact so yeah um and then when sort of um lockdown was coming to an end I also um the last virtual spearhead uh managed to get Peter Davidson because he hadn't done any um Zoom events during the lockdown he was like that wasn't for him but because he was back out doing real world events his representative said yeah he'll he'll do one on Zoom so during the pandemic I had um Tom pet pet Collin Sylvester and Paul McAn all at separate times um and they were really popular and they there are there's an idea floating around to do something else again early next year

6:14 online so watch this space but then but then I started to do events in the real world um so spearhead live which takes place at wood Norton which was the location used for spearhead from space and robots in spearhead from space it was the hospital where the doctor gets taken to and you've got the famous shower scene and that shower is still there so all the fans like to go and get a photo in there um and um I've got an upcoming event in November at the school used for remembrance of the darx I'll tell you what you need for that shower you need uh as as merchandise you need to be selling those little uh uh snake tattoos that everyone can put on and jump in the shower as well as a blue shower cap yes yes shower

7:01 cap and tattoo you're in yeah there we go right write that down and and I believe we got Sophie and Sylvester coming into the remembrance event yeah yeah Sophie Sylvester Andrew cartell Andrew Morgan who will be this is an exclusive because I don't think it's been announced yet but Andrew Morgan will be launching his Memoirs uh in in written form a book will be launched there uh being published by Telos publishing um who are is going um Simon Williams um Terry Malloy uh John Leon has just confirmed this morning so I haven't announced that's huge um and there's there is scope um to

7:47 have one or two more guests if they're available if not maybe another event next year so brilliant and and the best thing is is that silv and Sophie will be in their original season season 25 screen news costumes for the photo shoot excellent everything still fits yes cuz they they um had them on well Sil had the brine jacket on for um a photo shoot at the first spearhead live which was the hottest day of the year uh back last year and it was horrendous but bless them both they were in costume outside and it was it was an amazing day we talk about hot for UK though aren't we not hot for the anywhere else in the world yeah yeah yeah hot hot it was very hot for the UK and it was so hot that

8:33 the the room that like a near the car park of of the um of the building that was used uh the the air conditioning failed so yeah it was just yeah I mean you you guys do the they do the cold quite well but you you really not set up to the heat are you no no no oh I prefer the cold absolutely give me snow any day yeah so where can we find find out all about your events is there a central place we can go yeah there's a website so ww.us alpha.org um the website will be up and running again by hopefully this weekend because my website provider bless them moved to another provider and when they cloned the web pages it didn't go across properly and it's ah it's not as easy to

9:20 edit yeah not as easy to edit as uh as it used to be so I got this weekend um well on Sunday cuz on Saturday I'm off to the BFI to watch the five doctors and I'm taking uh the Cybermen along who will be doing a Q&A and signing after the screening so it's David Banks and Mark Hardy so yeah so lots of things going and there's plans for future events as well in person and virtual fantastic absolutely fantastic I'm jealous I want to be in the UK philli I feel very isolated over here of the to be there go for a visit you reckon yeah I mean I mean yeah yeah we got Katy

10:06 Manning coming to an event they've got 15 people going to an event yeah yeah I guess travel costs are a bit a bit cheaper just just a bit there's no there's not many airplanes no internal air flights involved oh there you go that does make things a bit cheaper Al although last year I did take some guests out as sponsored guests to um time lash and Germany so you know that those costs add up yeah European travel yes huge yeah yeah but not not as not as much as going to Australia no it's okay we're beautiful out here um is it just worth quickly asking in terms of your fandom how did you become a doctor who fan oh good question so um I was about four or five it's my one of my earliest memories um a

10:54 my essentially my Godmother's son John John Franklin I know you're listening John so hello John it's all your fault um he was a doctor who fan he's a I think he's about five 10 years older than me maybe a bit more um he they lived across the road from us they had a house we we lived in a flat um across the road and they used to look after me and my sister a lot of the time and I can remember I must have been about five I remember he had the VHS release of ter of the zygon so when it came out in the mid 80s and I can remember seeing the zygon but then um and the loch nest

11:40 monster and then I remember seeing um a pair of hands grabbed this man out of a barrel and that was from the last two episodes of trial of the time lord and that one really sticks in my memory and then um we moved from our Flats to a house not that far away and um I remember it really well because I was at school uh and Terry wogan had just finished on the television and then this blue box was uh floating through space and being hit by these lasers and then it cut to a scene where this Monster's hand goes over a man and turns him over and his face is you can't see his face and then it turns into Sylvester McCoy and the rest is history

12:30 and I remember watching all of the McCoy era as a kid go out live and as a result of that um Doctor Who has been a huge part of my life I joined I joined a theater company in 2003 which um is it 2003 yeah 2003 uh where we um it was the offstage theater group and we tour conventions where we did comedy spoofs of uh Doctor Who um and I would play um Sylvester McCoy um sometimes Paul mcan's version of doctors so I would imitate them I'd do voices um adri that was always funny because I'd come on and people would just laugh um K9 uh we did uh Barney eatan Jones Bary Eon Jones uh wrote them more um but he I

13:18 think the cleverest spoof he ever did was on the Ruston Warrior robot from the five doctors calling it a Ruster Warrior robot so there I am in a this was out in La I'm in a silver uh one piece suit with a a rust aarian wig on my head and I've got no rhythm so we're trying to do a dance and I can't see so it was just absolutely hilarious uh to do that but but yeah um doing those plays uh LED on to um getting to know um Doctor Who actors that I met at previous events as well you know you just get to know them over time and um you know then they sort of like trust you to do things and you know I'm very grateful to people like um

14:03 Sylvester and Sophie especially Sophie aldred who has been very supportive and encouraging of my Endeavors over the last sort of five or six years yeah she's wonderful um you've even got uh some credits on big finish Productions you tell us briefly about those yeah so again that was sort of round about the time I was in doing the offstage theater group uh plays I think what had happened Gary Russell had put a call out on galifrey base asking for people to come and record some scenes and I'm like yes please Gary I'll come I'll come you know even though I'm the other side of the country I'll jump on a bus and he said yeah come on down and then um we were recording crowd scenes and folio and various other bits um I

14:50 remember doing some stuff for Faith Steeler um and Gary um stopping the recording and asking who was doing the strange impression of Kenneth Williams and I said I think that might have been me and he said please don't do that and I thought oh got him been told off you know um and then we did the recording again and then he uh said okay everybody go back out into the corridor and then he calls me back into the studio and I'm thinking oh my God I'm G to get absolutely told off here and um he he said right okay um I want you to read these lines off we go and I'm like I'm so sorry am I in trouble he went no no no it's fine come on let's just get this done and it was um a character for um a

15:37 Peter Davidson story called The Game um where I play it was only I think it's like three lines for a character called Mr galui um and they were lovely because they they even put my name in in the in the booklet and um um and there's a picture of me in faith Steeler and what I've done is every time I've gone to events where there's been somebody from them I've got got the cast to put to Ian my co-star on the on the on the um on the booklets and then um the other bits I did for uh big finish was um myself and a couple of the other guys from offstage theater group it was one of the last things car Russell was working on in his original stint at Big finish uh for the I Davos series we played the

16:22 Council of 12 and uh we we we died which was nice and screamed in a hotel room in Stockton and then even though even though we know you guys normally talk about um big finish but um John anworth had a company called noise noise monster noise moner yeah yeah he did space 1889 that's right yeah I I uh did some scenes in those and background stuff because he recorded them before Gary was doing his bits for the big finish so like it was it was all overlapping and stuff so yeah I did that as well and and audio other audio stuff um I've done some stuff for barnab Ethan Jones uh who has still has

17:10 uh the license to do robin of Sherwood the 1980s uh stuff on audio um so I've appeared in a couple of those and an upcoming project as well which I think people will be very interested in when that comes out but um I'm not allowed to say but you can't tell us of course we've never heard that before have I'm one of those annoying people who says oh I can't possibly talk about that I'm doing this but I can't tell you well I've done it and yeah I'm just not allowed to say but um I know I know all people who love audio and people who yeah people who love audio will really want to listen to it not because I'm in it because of the other cast and what it's all about oo sounds intriguing

17:58 we'll have to keep an ear to the ground for that one okay so as you know we are focusing for the next few weeks dare I say months uh on an anniversary theme so every episode of the podcast is going to have an anniversary style theme to it so it could be a past anniversary that um that we're going to look at such as today or it could be uh an anniversary of a big finish character or a big finish license of maybe even something else that came on that's uh got an anniversary theme to it but today we're going to be really desperate to find something some sort of Link somehow that's why I'm here I can find a link anywhere don't you worry about that can no I can't I know no joke uh so today

18:44 we're going to be looking at these stories that were released 20 years ago today so over the three months surrounding this date uh the stories were released they're called the villain Trilogy leading up to the big Finnish 40th anniversary story zus and there was three classic stories from Big Finnish Story number 47 48 49 they were Omega Davos and master so that's the villains Trilogy so we're going to talk about those in a moment uh and get some of your insights in it's going to be great to do that but before we do Phillip do you know what uh no what Dwayne we have to jump down the rabbit hole let's

19:33 [Applause] [Music] go right how's that experience for you Ian you're down the rabbit hole where's where where where's the sound effect where's the were you where were you I heard it what's wrong with you Ian I'll I'll imagine it it's fine okay since we're on an anniversary theme this is my question and I can't ask you I because I've got to throw uh Philip under the on no not under the bus on the spot uh first um I want to ask you since it's anniversary theme what to you makes the perfect anniversary story

20:19 for Doctor Who what elements do you need in there uh well I'm I just love the multi doctor stories so for aniv me and I mean I mean the first one that was huge in my life was the five doctors so and and that's one of the few few Doctor Who shows we actually got basically on time in fact I think we ra did we show it before England did the UK did I'm not sure but um certainly the 20th anniversary and I know I got the book a few day the book was published before the show came out or at least in austral was Australia I'm not sure about the UK CU I remember sitting at Sydney University at a doctor who event reading the five doctors before it had been on TV and I read through that whole book um sitting in the Sun City uni uh so I knew what was going to happen already because I'd read the whole book so to me

21:06 multiple doctors and also I mean by that stage too the three doctors was also one of my favorite stories so yeah those those multid doctor stories to me just it epitomizes what an anniversary is you got to bring all the doctors back bring it back as many companions as possible and have a lot of fun that's my view P um I think for me I've got such a soft spot for the five doctors uh like I said earlier I'm off to the BFI um this weekend to watch the the screening I mean how many different versions of of the five doctors have there been over the years not as many as Sharda I think there's probably more than Shard I don't know have to work it out but um I I love the five doctors I there's so much I love about I could speak for a day about it but

21:52 um I just yeah it's it's a wonderful story and I think you know it is a bit of you know I know some writers say or having you know multiple doctors back it's a poisonous chalice and things like that but I think you know this is what fans expect you know it's like let's have more than one doctor you know um and you know I know sometimes you can't get the the doctors for various reasons or you know they're sadly no longer with us but you know clever writers make it work I mean Terren dicks did an absolutely amazing script on the five doctors um and yeah it's brilliant um the Ruston Warrior robot is fantastic that whole sequence of those Cybermen being massacred um John pere's costume in the

22:38 five doctors is beautiful the way he just flows with Elegance throughout it um I love Elizabeth slayden's costume that just keeps taking off layer after layer every time layer it looks different but even spect more spectacular yeah um I uh you know Paul Jericho no not the mind probe um God so much and I really like Richard hle I think Richard hle does a really good job and um yeah he they're great and Pat Pat Triton you know in the three doctors which we all class as an anniversary story even though it went out you know months before um he in the three doctors Pat is not quite in character I think

23:24 personally he's he's he's struggling to find what he did only a couple of years ago but come the five doctors he's got it he's there him and Nick Courtney it's a great beautiful uh onscreen relationship going on there and they're just all having fun and it's it's great and yeah it's brilliant and the music I love the music the all the music from the five doctors so what about for you D what's an anniversary special for you well it's interesting cuz I I figured yours would be the five doctors that would be your first sort of um conscious anniversary but for me the the the first anniversary that I kind of experienced as it was happening was uh the 25th which wasn't a multi-d doctor story so

24:09 and and in Australia the way they did it because we got episodes about 12 months later when they screened season 24 in Australia they went straight to remembrance of the DX after Dragonfire so we got that a year early but that's not really that's not supposed to be the end iary story silver nesis is supposed to be the anniversary story oh sorry I spoke too fast didn't I I shut up sorry Dwayne I am I interrupting you too much I was about to say I was about to say I realized that remembrance wasn't the anniversary story because it was silver Nemesis but to me it both of those stories are anniversary stories as far as I'm concerned because You' and and you've got V elements in there like um well is silver Nemesis it's it's

24:59 I love the silver neses it's so silly but I love it well it should be four episodes I know that much it's it's it's too short they should have cut cut down greater show and expanded uh silver Nemesis I think that would have made it a lot better or better still just make them all four parters that would have been good that would have been better although at the time I could have taken one episode for the happiness Patrol um I've I've come to appreciate it now but I thought that was an embarrassment at the time but silver Nemesis and remembrance of the dialects uh they have all those little throwback elements like the hand of omig and going back to totter's Lane and all those familiar elements there and referring to the group Captain as Brigadier and all those little subtle

25:45 elements that are that are in the script so for me I don't think you necessarily have to have multi-d doctors although it is a lot of fun and when you're talking about the five doctors I think it would have been really interesting to see what Robert Holmes would have done because he was originally commissioned for that story wasn't he yeah it wasn't it going to be called the six doctors at one stage as well but I haven't heard that yeah like they were going to do a a version where there was like a an Android the Cyberman created an Android version of the first doctor that's why it didn't look quite right and then or something I don't know there's it it'll be on the extras of the of the upcoming Blu-ray box set there'll be a documentary about it I'm sure handle all the constant changes and just threw his hands up in the air and said no way too

26:31 hard M too hard yeah so you know if you've got all those little subtle Throwbacks I think that's that's important I am also a huge fan of experimental stories of any description and I think I'm a huge supporter of Zas as well I love Zas I love the ambition of it what it's trying to do I love how big it seems And yet when you actually think about about the story it's a very very small and contained story at the same time so and it's it has the ability to bring back all these G guest cast um in all these Cameo rols which was done well I don't think anything's been done like it since and in fact if you talk if

27:16 we've been talking a lot about the classic series but the new series has had a couple of anniversaries too because we've had not only Day of the Doctor we had night of the doctor which was great around that anniversary time um as a single doctor episode uh I'm still smarting all these years later that they haven't done more with Paul McAn over the years they I think they've had the opportunity but it's you know been been wasted terribly um but I I really love what they did in power of the doctor bringing those doctors back I thought that was a great way to do it um without having to you know uh deep fake them or whatever to make them look like they did on TV you could still make them look how they look now and it was a beautiful beautiful throwback uh

28:03 without having to have them running throughout the whole story they could come on quickly and do it but it still left a massive impact I think that those doctor scenes have more of an impact on me than the rest of the story no I agree I think the doctor SCS really great and the companions too so to me the power of the doctor the power of that was the Nostalgia and you know I could just watch those scenes with yeah are just wonderful and seeing those people back on the show and I'm hoping we might see some stuff like that maybe in the 60th about to come up I've got I really got no idea what we're going to see um I'm expecting Matt Smith to be in it I'm expecting well David 10 we know but aside from that really have no idea so I'm excited to see what's coming you you're excited about what's to come yeah I really am yeah I I love Russell T

28:48 Davis I love David Tenant and Katherine Tate uh yeah I'm very excited to see what's going to what's going to come what about you an are you excited about the anniversary shows I am but there's there's one thing which I'm a bit disappointed about is that there won't be or we're led to believe that there won't be not that I know anything uh but a another version of the fiveish doctors the fiveish doctors reboot for me that was the best thing about the anniversary 10 years ago that was absolutely hilarious the three of them are so wonderful together um and Colin I think Colin Baker tips Peter Davidson and Sylvester boy just ever so slightly at just shining through he's just so so brilliant and that wonderful scene with

29:35 him and his family all there where he's got the Vengeance on Vos and forcing them to watch it it's just lovely it's you know Peter Davon did an amazing thing with that with that and I would have loved and maybe there might be something like that I don't know but I would love to see something with the three of them like that um but you know what could be interesting is is they could do something like like maybe staged and do it via Zoom yeah there's no if there's no production they could they could do it that way and it it could be it could be really interesting that would be yeah on Zoom yeah and cheap cheap to do yes because you know that's what it all comes sign to the end of the day is is having the the the money and budget because you know you would if you're not

30:20 you're not doing a doctor who thing but you've got the three of them together you know but then you're sort like going down the the unlicensed spin-off Roots there aren't you really but um yeah I don't know who you're talking about there we've got a big finish we'll be fine yeah oh yeah I think what big finish are doing for the anniversary I mean uh at the moment is from what I've heard already I've yet to hear the David Tenant one because that just dropped earlier this week very very good very very good yeah it's ticking a lot of those boxes that we're that we've been talking about here in this little rabbit hole and on that note shall we crawl up out of it and uh get on to the stories that we're going to talk about we're going to start with the first in the villains Trilogy and that

31:06 is Omega written by Nev Fountain and I'll read the blur a strange telepathic message prompts the doctor to travel to the sector of Forgotten Souls a place where thousands of years ago omega's ship vanished whilst desent detonating a star he's not the only one journeying towards it Jolly kronol Pride itself on giving its tourists an experience of Galactic history that is far better than mere time travel its motto is we don't go into history we prefer to bring history to you when omega's ship suddenly materializes in front of their shuttle and one of their employees goes insane and tries to destroy his hands suddenly it's not just a motto anymore an omga and his Madness is closer than

31:54 they think Doctor Who Omega once upon a time there was a lonely time plumber called paleix who worked alongside the great Omega you may have heard of the great Omega I was never up in the more obscure figures in Time Lord history but how do you know this because I do I'm vanyon conscience of the universe who are you what are you what have you got to do with Omega Oma that's right oh my perhaps I prefer myself as a monster better to shape the universe than to be one of History's victims you should be on your knees screaming for the universe to forgive you for all my

32:41 reputation as a warlord of tyrant a megalomaniac I am a fragile flower compared to you anyone got anything they want to ask Omega anyone yes didn't you play the Randy priest in hearts and Orbit on Channel 30,8 you my metal friend are an electronic mugging machine would you like to considerated title no I think electronic mugging machine will quite suffice I am now as my brother time Lords knew me before doctor no monster no Tyrant just the first and greatest scientist of our people

33:30 [Music] Omega the fact and the trivia written by Nev Fountain starring Peter Davidson and Ian Collier number 47 in the main range recorded February 2003 and released August 2003 as part of the 40th anniversary celebrations of Doctor Who this is the first of a Trilogy of stories starring returning villains of Doctor Who and will be followed by zus as another villain much like every story in the 20th season the show did this was trying to do the same thing bringing back recuring villains and monsters directed by Gary Russell music by Russell Stone sound designed by Gareth Jenkins this is the first and only appearance of the actor Patrick Dugen Anita Elias Faith Kent and Caroline

34:16 Monroe at Big finish don't know why it might be worth asking Gary that this was the first big finished story to be written by Nev Fountain uh Nev is the real life partner of Nicola Bryant who played fifth and sixth doctor companions Perry this is a sequel to the doctor who show Ark of infinity and the doctor was sat in seat 6E the production code for that story pelix is the Annoying curious Time Lord who wants to know everything about everything AIX is an anagram of Pixley Andrew Pixley is the well-known Doctor Who historian who wrote for Doctor Who magazine the cast struggled with how to say Omega especially after one person started saying Omega Ian k first appeared on Doctor Who is a scientist Stuart hide in the time monster when he was 30 when he was 40

35:03 went on to play Omega in AR Infinity this is now when he's 60 and he return when he returned and he was to die very early only 5 years later at the age of 65 the story possibly owes some thanks to the film Fight Club that was released 4 years earlier and that's the facts and the trivia you think it was Fight Club well we can talk about it the track I'm sure that sounds that sounds fascinating cuz I love that movie now Ian what are your thoughts about this story we'll go to you first uh your memories of it and what your feelings are about it um I haven't listened to it for a very long time but I remember it very well I don't want to spoil things for anybody who hasn't listened to it but apologies I think I think I think we have to say

35:48 there will be spoilers to people so can I say if you haven't listened to these stories they're very cheap in fact they're probably even free on Spotify they are free on Spotify so they're free on Spotify or they're couple of bucks so couple bucks one or two pound um if you're in the UK and a couple of bucks for people in America and here and um alist is in Germany I don't know what you use Euros not very expensive to buy or free on Spotify so go listen turn off now and then come back because we are going to spoil well so the uh in terms of spoiling for people it's it's working out that who we believe is the doctor for all of the story is not the doctor that's all I'm going to say and I just thought that is absolutely amazing it was a very very clever thing um I really

36:37 like Hugo M who I remember from my youth as uh from a thing in England called nightmare which uh was a kids TV series where he played uh uh Trey guard who was the dungeon I think I think he was a dungeon master where it was four kids uh so three of them would be in in the studio and another kid would be elsewhere in the studio and they would send him on a quest and it was like you had to like get a it was the Quest for the cup or the Quest for the sword I remember Hugo from that very very well and he always used to start the shows with the new team coming in going enter stranger um and he he just has a wonderful Rich fruity voice he's he's brilliant um and Conrad Conrad wmus who

37:23 later becomes kis um he brilliant in it you know he's the one who uh chops off his hand or something in the story isn't he um Jim Jim s s but I know Jim I know I know him um yeah it's a great story and I think you know it's Nev's like you said Nev's first um stint at Big finish and it's it's really done really really well and I like the the the time Lords in it as well he make an appearance so yeah I I like it it's good St it's interesting cuz I always view this story as my least favorite of the trilogy but it is still absolutely fantastic I I love it uh it's got such a Nev Fountain style he's got this style that

38:09 comes out in every script do I wish he I wish he do more it's it's yeah it's it's very it's go no what I was going to say was he has it's like um like a layer of Comedy like a like a a layer like imagine it as a cake and there's a layer of com and that that runs throughout this uh story but it's not like tongue and cheek or in your face it's just very subtle very done very subtly but that's just because neev is a very clever writer yeah yeah the other writer the big Finnish used that did comedy and then Darkness was Rob Sheran so but it was a totally different kind of feel to Rob sheerman stuff yeah uh to this uh I find

38:54 myself laughing out loud a lot more at at neb fountain's work yeah I think Rob Robbie's Robbie's black all the time black humor that's all he uses more more black humor where there's characters in here which are hilarious and are just funny characters um never uses um dark situations so things that happen are dark um but he doesn't try and make that funny but there's but there's always this charact characters being funny and yeah there's two old time ladies they're hilarious yeah now you mentioned Gareth Jenkins as a sound designer is that Gareth Jenkins from the yes it is that's really I'm pretty sure I'm pretty positive that's the same G Jenkins yeah when he grew up he um went into

39:41 sound design your memories oh have you yeah yeah nice guy cool it's his claim to fame Philip what are your thoughts on uh Omega yeah I it was so good going back and listening to these three stories again it's been a while since I've listened to them all and in my head yeah I think I always thought Omega was Omega was the weakest but I think all three of them are just astounding but they classic for different reasons and so they're very different even though they've got three villains in it um the thing that struck me the reason why I said Fight Club is just the fact of you know one of the characters isn't really a character ah of course now I get it so

40:26 that's why I thought it it had similar to Fight Club so in terms of you have a whole character in this who's not actually there and so it's confusing and and it's interesting I knew what had happened this time because because I've listened to it several times it has been a while since I've listened to it but I've listen to it several times and every other time i' list i' forgotten the twist at the end of the the third episode but this time I'd remembered when it started I oh that's right and so I was deliberately listing to see how it played out and it it is done perfectly like it is every the conversations they had where they had all work and so it really is very deceptive I mean he's hiding everything in plain sight which is why n's such a clever writer I do think that um all the performances bar one I think are exceptional um I think

41:13 Ian Cy has the most amazing voices what one to having him come back he and Peter davson play off each other really well Peter davson plays a lovely Comic character and very lighthearted for the first couple of episodes so I think that light-hearted approach that it seems the doctor's having is just lovely and so sweet and the doctor having fun which is nice because sometimes pet DAV always seem to have as much fun um I will say Ian interesting that um I will just say Caroline Monro who has a huge career in particularly horror films I thought she was really weak so to me that was actually the weakest part I felt everything she gave was just one LEL one note yeah yeah just that one tone the whole way through there's no EXC you know I think maybe

42:00 that was because she was like she was a bit boted with Omega so that was it was almost like she was mesmerized by him so maybe that was what was behind that yeah what do you think no I think it's because she didn't have the trifle at the big finish lunch bad mood watching your figure so she didn't have the trle so yeah that to me was so that's the only performance that actually let me actually in the whole trilogy I think that's the only performance that I thought let me down and she's was quite a name and she was quite a good pull to get cuz she was um but to me that was that wonderful having Ian hu ker back I think he does a great job and yeah just a very very clever story I think particularly the writing in this is is good consider the next two pieces are going to be much more intimate in some ways actually each one

42:46 gets less more more intimate this has sort of the biggest scale of the three stories and the next one is is a slightly smaller scale and then the the the last one just a really a one room play so each one gets more intimate so because this is playing a bigger canvas I think in some ways it doesn't that's probably why it feels a bit weaker than the others because you you can't quite create the whole world in quite the same way but some some lovely touches some lovely flashbacks and sound design is great it's interesting what what you'll see as we go through that music and sound design has been done by someone different for all three of the plays which is an interesting thing that's happened yeah the the sound design in those early big finishes is totally different when you go back and listen to

43:32 it it's uh much more orchestral soundtracking now than it than it was then was a lot more minimal and there were elements in there that reminded me of he must have done spare parts too CU he was using the theerum through omega as well which was which was heavily used in spare parts so I think he must have done the same I didn't check but I'm only assuming um what were you about to say I I was say there's something about the first 5050 big finish releases for me personally I think maybe it's because they're the ones I've had the longest and you know are the ones that I've listened to more than say the latter ones but there's something about the first 50 big finishes that are very special um you know and and and you know when when we get to Zas you know it's

44:19 it's it's almost as if there's a new era after that those first 50 it's yeah for me this this was one of those amazing runs creature of beauty project Lazarus flipflop these three zarus that's just within six months I yeah it's it's hard to find a run of such amazing successful stories come out as the run that was happening this time you didn't mention necromantia that's much earlier wasn't it I it was in the 42 or something wasn't it 41 42 um you mentioned Ian colia before and yeah a pirat was this before that too yeah Ian Kia's voice is just incredibly grally uh if you listen to him in the in

45:05 the time monster you can tell that he's been drinking and smoking for 20 years uh or 30 years up to this and it gives an amazing quality to the voice all that alcohol and tobacco um you you you actually can't tell the same actor J in terms of vocally you can't the same actor well you can from Arc of infinity can yes but not time not time monster no the 10 years 40 made a big difference um do you think it was just because of the connection with the fifth doctor that they brought him back as opposed to Steven Thorne who was around at that time definitely yeah was that the right was that the right choice definitely yeah do you have a Philip do you have a do you have a preference of Omega yes St

45:52 Thorn that's what I thought that's what I thought yeah but because it's never explained why does Omigo go from being in that mask that beautiful mask and then suddenly he's this squidy blob thing and it's like well what is that is that a mask or is that his yeah so it's so you don't recognize well he's coming he's coming across into our physical Universe from his universe so whereas in the three doctors he needs a blob he needs a Blobby face for it yeah so I I do prefer Steven Thorn's performance but because this was Peter Davids and it's an anniversary story and it was following on from Arkham Infinity an anniversary story it was perfectly appropriate that they brought back Ian Kia so I do think it was the right choice yeah but yeah do I prefer s Thor yeah but that's okay for for this that

46:38 was the right choice yeah did you know this was originally supposed to be the celestial toy maker no isn't everything supposed to be the celestial toy maker at the moment I've got to bring it up because because he is in the anniversary special coming up isn't he or is he is he we don't know that that's what everyone thinks anyway I know me it's really not going to be him again I mean why would you bring him back I've got no idea why would you bring back someone from 55 years ago who wasn't particularly good to make him good yeah cuz the idea of him's good it just wasn't executed very well at the time well you had him in Enlightenment I bet en well that's the same sort of characters live forever oh the

47:24 etal they're bored they're try play things are you going to be disappointed Philip when it is the celestial toy I no because as long as it's well done I don't care although I don't think he'll be called Celestial I don't I don't think that's a politically correct term actually mean Stars though so I mean I don't understand why it's a problem but there you go yeah for me um the the original actor to play the celestial toy maker U Michael go is that right Michael go y it's just Alfred it's Alfred from the Batman films that's who it is that that's who I want to see in the upcoming anniversary it's it's anak's it's anak's husband anakah Wills anak's yeah former husband yeah anakah Wills

48:10 yeah well that was a bit of a tangent that's your but anyway Omega Omega was a fantastic story a great start to the trilogy so I think we should move on to the second before you move on I think the cover the cover great I'm just looking at it here I think the artwork is is really good on all three of them I I like I like what they've done good they that same Clayton hman and Clayton was doing amazing work back here with the big F covers didn't good with DVD covers at the same time but I don't think it was his fault I think it was the BBC because those DVD covers were plain ass but he was doing amazing stuff with big finish yeah and I always liked the full cover that they were doing in these early ones

48:55 when um when Nick came along for for well a good while they were doing those uh sidebar strips down the side which I think took it took away a little bit from the from the covers for me and um yeah that's just my preference is to have the full cover like that fantastic which they've gotone back to now which makes it look more stunning yes absolutely I also remember um Doctor Who magazine would do the review and they would have a an illustration at that time and I remember yeah like a little comic and I remember the the the comic for Omega and it was Omega in the Omega mask from the three doctors but yeah um I remember that very well just to make it more confusing

49:41 yeah I'm just going to jump in at this point because we have an extra feature for this episode and because of the fact that for our next episode we are speaking with Gary Russell about Zas we took the opportunity when speaking with him to give us a few bits and pieces of information that he can recall about the villain's Trilogy so we're going to insert that into the separate stories as we go so here is Gary's Recollections of Omega so the village Trilogy came about really we have to work backwards because I'd made the decision to do zus a long time ago I mean quite early on I think before even when we did Neverland I knew we were going to be doing zra so everything was sort of

50:28 heading towards that and it was only in discussing what we were going to do for the actual 40th that I thought I want to do something to lead up to that something else because of Zas wasn't about Doctor Who and certainly wasn't about Colin Peter or or Sylvester's doctors it was kind of more a former Gan thing so I wanted to give them a buy to the Cherry so that sort of LED going right let's do three stories that are about the doctors with no Companions and the villains so there's no companions in any of those stories and it was just about each individual doctor facing off against a classic villain

51:13 basically and originally it was always the mar Mara was definitely the first one that I came up with I said I want to do a story with the master and I knew it was going to be Jeffrey uh I think I think the decision to do Jeffrey with Sylvester was simply because Jeffrey hadn't done one I don't think oh no he had that's of course he done dust be so that's why it with Sylvester it's because I knew they had that Rapport that's right so that's why Sylvester was immediately taken care of there and then it was what do I put Colin with what do I put Peter with and originally it was Colin and the celestial toy maker because I thought of nightmare fair and we could do something not actually do notm fair that would have been a terrible idea but I thought

51:59 there was that missed opportunity so here was our chance to put Colin with that and then it was going to be Peter Davidson with Davos when the toy maker thing didn't happen I swapped it around and thought well actually Colin and Terry Malloy are a really good double act so that'll be nice for them then I thought right who do I put with Peter well I'd already been working with Ian Kia and thought ah hang on a minute we could get elen in to play Omega and then I thought well maybe I could get Steven thorn in to also play Omega and we could have two omegas and then in conversations I had with Nev about it um Nev wasn't down to do the toy maker story that was a different writer um in

52:45 fact I'm not sure we ever had a writer I think I went to see if I could do toy maker before I even bothered getting a writer once I knew I wasn't going to do toy maker I don't think I went to a writer but I went to Nev for Omega and he actually came up with that story completely and I realized I didn't need the second Omega and then I thought well actually we've got the actor who's playing Omega which eventually went to Hugo and I thought should I get um Step In to play that and then I thought that's a bit cheeky that's a bit like saying you were the original Omega but Ian's actually playing Omega so I want you to play a fake Omega and I thought that would be a bit rude and insulting to Steven thorn so I dropped that idea completely um and then I encountered Hugo um which was a suggestion of Ian

53:33 farington and he said to me there's this great actor Hugo me uh who used to be in Nightmare and I'd never heard of nightmare uh but I watched a bit and thought that voice is amazing and sounds significantly like Ian Kia's voice so I thought him playing the fake Omega against the real Omega would be a lot of fun um and then then of Nev went and came up with this absolutely brilliant trick of the fact that that the doctor isn't even in this story until episode four um because that's the joy of audio and everyone's looking at the doctor thinking they're seeing the doctor but of course we all think that because of the voice but it's actually Omega and I just thought yeah that is one of the cleverest scripts that we've ever done I remember when I was reading it and I got

54:19 to that reveal at the end of episode 3 I just literally I was punching the air just going this is what I want this is this is fantastic how did you decide to commission Nev fountain for his first story Nev had done what's it called Death comes to time for the BBC um and I'd met Nev at a convention with uh everyone else connected with death comes time and I would say I'm trying to put this politely this the the death gum to time people had done a panel on stage at this convention in which of their 45 minutes on stage I think 40 minutes were spent slagging off big finish and five minutes were spent telling everyone how

55:05 brilliant death comes time was uh and after that panel which I watched thinking wow you re all they talked about is how they wanted to put us out of business and they were the future of Dr AIO and and their their main thing was trying to get rid of big finish and I was thinking what have we ever do to you do we did we run over your puppies or something they just were anti us um and I was quite shocked at that and the ne was in the bar afterwards and he turned around to me and went I I just want you to know that was nothing to do with me I had no idea the panel was going to take that twist or that angle and I'm really sorry and I just liked him and we got on really well and so I asked him to do a script

55:54 um I'm trying to remember whether that script was this or whether that was King maker but I think it was this I think he did this before King maker God I can't remember these things um but that's how Nev got involved with big Finnish was because he basically apologized for the fact that everyone else he was working with was being a complete and utter [ __ ] to us at this convention um and so I I went to him for om which is odd because my immediate thought is knowing n's background in radio comedy um and and satire and things why did I go to Nev for something that I had no intention of making a comedy I don't know I think I think it was just a case of I knew he knew Doctor Who backwards and for those specials they had to be written by

56:39 someone who knew Doctor Who backwards and therefore Nev struck me as the right person to do Omega and he came up with this brilliant story which as I say even when he came up with the story line it changed so much that it wasn't until the script came in that I was really going oh my God this is going to be so much fun to do all right let's talk about DAV Ross and I will read the blur tii stock has shot up by over 15% on news that Galaxy famous scientist Davos controversial creator of the Del has been hired to work on unspecified technological projects DAV Ross has been given the chance to redeem himself Humanity stands on the verge of a new era but it needs the help of the Galaxy's greatest ever scientist but Davos is dead isn't he from the bunkers

57:27 and shelters of ancient Scaro to the gleaming domes of the future Earth Empire Davos has always been a man of Destiny now he's working for Mankind's benefit but how much do we really know about Davos has Davos really turned over a new Leaf the doctor certainly doesn't think so but is the doctor always right Doctor Who Davos when I press this switch I will die it will be painless they say but if I survive then something stronger will emerge a new race the supreme power in the

58:13 universe I will not press this switch I will not cow I will not die I will not die this is not the end this is [Music] only he's activated the detonation sequence we can't out run on nuclear blast doctor they're building an army of robots how long before the radiation Cloud reaches the Dome I want to WR the definitive biography of daffos if everyone had the equation then the whole system would collapse DAV Ross the fact and the trivia written

58:58 by Lance parin starring Colin Baker and Terry Malloy number 48 in the main range recorded January 2003 released September 2003 as part of the 40th anniversary celebrations of dror who this is the second of the trilogy of stories starring The Returning villains and this is the first time that Terry Malloy as Davos would appear with big finish he would continue to appear 20 years on and still is appearing directed by Gary Russell music by Jane elfon who only did this one did five scores in total finish and sound design by Jim Mortimer who only did six stories for big finish this is the first time Wendy Padre would work for big finish at this stage Gary Russell wouldn't use past companions as companions without their doctors so she

59:45 was cast in a very different role to Zoe heret who she had played on TV with Patrick Tron in 1969 this is the only appearance by actor Bernard Hall at Big finish burnard had appeared in several Doctor Who shows twice with Wendy padbury including galliver in the mind robber a Time Lord in the war games Taran in plant of the dcts and Chancellor goth in The Deadly Assassin Luis fogner who plays beev tarant in Benny and KL Hansen recorded their scenes on a totally different time while working on a Benny episode originally this was done as four episodes but the play overran and so to cut the time down they edited together into two long episodes but as this matched what the 22nd season did with col Baker anyway it wasn't seem to be too bad it was a few it was a few days

1:00:32 after the release of this episode the BBC announced the Doctor Who was coming back and Russell T Davis however fans started to panic that big finish would close down and another couple of days after that big finish would announced that they had a license to keep producing Doctor Who stories until 2007 and it's been renewed once or twice since then and that is the the facts and the [Music] trivia okay this would have to be my personal favorite of the trilogy really yes absolutely I thought it was Master so there you go well I I was thinking about this because and I'll I'll tell you why this Pips Master probably when we get to master but I always say that

1:01:18 if you want Sylvester McCoy's performance best performance that's where you go master and this the story is brilliant too but I love this one because this is fascinating to me I love things that haven't been done before and this is the first time we've had Davos without the dialects Ian does that work for you yes it does because you it's for me there's certain certain in history of Doctor Who there's certain relationships which I think work really well the third doctor and the master for example John per and Roger delgardo that you know that just that's just a beautiful relationship and there's something about Baker and Terry Malloy just sparring off each other which they didn't really get a lot to do in Revelation of the DXs but they have done so in Davos and then other subsequent

1:02:04 big finish stories but you know it works really really well and um yeah and you know the the doctor you know trying to you know not trust Davos but then you've got to trust Davos and you know Davos it's there are some themes from Revelation as well sort of like going into business and you know where he's like you know he what is it he can work out how the stock exchange is going to work he he works out a formula and I'm like thinking well he goes on to set himself up after this on necross doesn't he yeah so you know it's a prequel isn't it and it's like yeah oh can he give me a few pointers please um and uh Wendy pb's wonderful in it um uh you know she's you know again I think this is this is the

1:02:51 beauty of big finish isn't it it's given actors that we all know and admire and love a chance to flesh out characters or create new characters and that's something that they did really well with uh Wendy and also I need to do a big shout out to a good F well sort of good friend yeah you're all right David David Bier staff in it he's you know he's as um scientist ra you know he's he's great he's done a lot of audios over the last 10 15 20 years um great cast great music yeah um and again a chance for Davos to shine and not be you know with the dialects it was actually revelation of the dialects that sort of turned me into

1:03:37 a doctor who de I was I always loved it anyway but it was that story and probably just as much as Colin Baker's performance it was Terry M's performance in Revelation the dialects that that really stuck out to me and at that stage I had never seen Genesis of the dialects so I hadn't seen Michael Wisher so a lot of people stick with Michael Wisher because that was the first AOS they saw but I guess that's why I I like Terry Malloy he was the first DAV Russ I saw on screen snap snap and and uh I I just love the the energy that Terry Malloy throws throws into it and I mean he's a he's a radio actor isn't he so he knows what he's doing particularly on audio and you're absolutely right the the

1:04:24 sparring that these two had through particularly in the first half of the play was was spectacular uh there's some spine tingling moments I think it is the best cold open for a story that I've ever heard uh with that monologue right at the beginning that leads into the credits this is not the end this is only the beginning fantastic that yeah is is spine chill tingling as well um and Yeah Wendy padri and burnard horse F was great to hear hear those voices too um interesting that this Trilogy has got two two actors who who appeared in Doctor Who around the same time at different times so we've got Bernard Hall who was in Series 6 we've got Philip mad who was in Series 6 and then

1:05:10 we've got Bernard horsefall who was in uh series 14 and madic was in 13 wasn't he so yeah uh they were in Doctor Who on TV around the same time so sorry Philip I'm putting those little connections there together always find a connection somewhere um but yeah I've heard some people say that this is a little bit over long but I could just listen to this I could listen to these characters all day so uh for me this is this this is the standout uh of of the trilogy what about you philli well Lance Park in the writer started and broke his teeth on um new adventure novels and I think the story just War which was then later turned to one of the Benny stories in the first series is one of the best stories ever written with Benny and that the whole just war that if you

1:05:56 not listen to Just War listen to it it's amazing and then he wrot another amazing Benny the extension pardon just War just war that was finique yeah um I mean his story was actually adapted by Jack Raina which is because I think she's might be producing this one or at least the next one um he were they go on to write another Benny extensionally Advent which was great and did primeval before this which was his first doctor and primeval of course is that new Tren show with Nissa and Peter Davidson so he's got a lovely history of story writing in other forms and genres as well as this I think part of the power of this is is the flashbacks of D's early life absolutely which would become become of in the I Dev series if you not listened

1:06:42 to that the I Dev series is is taking D throughout his life from his youth to who he became Genesis di um and so this sort of sets the groundwork for that I DeVos series but to see the early life of DeVos to see what seems to be a blossoming romance but what it really is just shows how clever was the character because where you think it's going in terms of romance is not at all where it goes and so you actually start to realize that H DeVos was always bad um but that being said there's equally Bad characters throughout this it's hard to find a redeeming there's not there's not a redeeming character in the story so all the cast all the

1:07:27 characters have major faults have major issues in terms of they're just awful people and even even the um Wendy Patrick's character who you think is going to be okay you realize that she no she's just as manipulative and controlling and awful as well um I think the use of Economics Theory to destroy the world is fascinating and the fact that what D was wants to then set up once he to the he just explains the the the war footing and what could happen in such a simple but straightforward way you just see this could be possible and you can really see you know the cleverness of this is that that it could be so real and I find that really depressing uh in terms of how easy would it be to

1:08:13 actually destroy all societies and to put people under control and democracy is only you a couple months away and I think you already we' seeing in UK uh and America in particular are really seeing you know the the what could be happening with democracy in the short term um and you in devastating ways but yeah it doesn't take much before you can lose everything um yeah stunning sorry Terry moo and Colin Baker I think are giving the best performances of the whole trilogy I think you're right Colin Colin just pulls it out at the park I mean he's just astounding um and every time he yeah every time he speaks he's a great I mean there's a few things like there's the nuclear bombs down the mines and think not sure um but there's enough

1:08:59 humor with the E devices colins colonies anti Authority in a beautiful way yeah guys it's free go listen to it it's amazing yeah absolutely did you notice the contradiction in here uh from the new series by any chance did anyone pick up on that no get more clues I think going that more clues uh it isn't it to do with when we see Davos as a kid with Peter Capaldi isn't it something to do with that no because it doesn't really contradict that okay um I do kind of

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