0:00 this is the most consequential conversation on planet Earth nice to meet you welcome I'm glad you made it how you doing nice to see you welcome Hey I'm Brian I'm glad you guys said yes tonight we're going to talk about what don't die is we'll take you through a journey that I'm not going to tell you about but by the end of the night you'll understand like why we do this and you'll understand the importance of the roles you're want to play in this conversation at the end of the day there is no point in leaving if your quality of life is not there I can't fathom what it will be like to be living a couple hundred years from now will still be here yeah yeah right don't die feels a little negative instead what about let's live feels a little more uplifting there
0:46 is no political drama or economic situation or social or moral ethical nothing is more important in this conversation okay you guys the way this conversation is going to work it's a ser series of five thought experiments okay so I'm going to pose a question to you and then you guys are going to answer the thought experiments only two rules here one is that everybody talks and then number two is that uh try to keep your comments pretty short you know like 20 seconds 30 seconds you will hear each other's thoughts and you'll be able to then modify your own perspectives here is the first thought experiment for you if you had access to an algorithm that could give give you the best physical
1:31 and mental and spiritual health of your life but exchange for the access you did what the algorithm said you wented bed when it said you ate what it said and you exercised in the way that it prescribed would you say yes or no to this and again there's no correct answer this is entirely your choice would you say yes or no I would say yes I'd go all in cuz I do that I've been doing that for different things that I've tried with health I think yes is good just knowing that if you're in a constant experimental phase that it either works or it doesn't and then you take the best from that and kind of move on yeah so yes and yes so you yes because you think you're already doing this is like what you're trying to do already Yes Anthony this is aligns with your idea of the
2:17 world that natural self-improvement uh so it makes sense like yeah and it's an experimental like evolution of it so yeah I'd be worried if it wasn't an experiment because then it seems like it's dogmatic instead of like it's just being placed and I just do it blindly you know I think if there is that level of curiosity and experimentation within it I think I'd be more willing to to do it but to allow data to drive my decisions yeah yeah so you're convinced based upon Anthony's argument for let me clarify you don't know what the algorithm does MHM so you don't know what's going to happen in your life and you also don't know a lot of the details of like uh will you have access to the data all you know is you have to follow yeah you say this is the best physical mental and spiritual
3:02 health in my life but outside of that you don't know any of the details on what actually happens in your life quick question are you allowed to try this algorithm and then stop it no it's yeah either in or out oh okay well that might change things yeah see based on that I would say no okay you say no all right and the reason why is because I think my passion in life it's like surfing mountain biking stei being seen being with Friends Community and if that was the sacrifice of I couldn't engage in a lot of those things because I had to follow this protocol I'm willing to sacrifice a little bit of lifespan because there's a certain way that I'm dedicated to living my life and I want to live it that way while trying to be the healthiest I can be but not
3:48 the sacrifice of not having the life that I desire to have yeah okay so you you have a model of the world of how you want to live and the trade-offs you want to make and this algorithm creates a potential compromise or threatens your ability to do that it creates unknowns for you by Freedom yeah your freedom okay right I would say no cuz I don't want to be watched over by Machines of Loving Grace I kind of believe in the mysticism of my own life and the mathematical mysticism that who I meet at when is who I'm supposed to meet at those times and I feel like the algorithm wouldn't have that like esic knowledge so you're worried that the algorithm is not comprehensive enough to include the variables of reality that you understand the world and that would create a deficit in your lived experience yeah when I first said yes I
4:35 was like okay well that's good cuz I'm going to have an experiment but then I can opt out when I want to right if it's not working for me right but it's not we have to opt in forever yeah they're opting in Forever what we siging for this is a forever thing they're opting in forever it feels so fine final it's too late ladies you but but but if there spir if I'm going to be the spirit I'm going to be the most spiritually happy maybe I find out that surfing isn't what brings my heart pure joy but it leads me into something else that I never knew about this is this is why I want to be able to start and stop it yeah so with that new knowledge Miranda you're thinking is not a clean yes it's maybe more complicated it's a little more complicated because I'd love to be able
5:22 to have a little fun every now and then leave some room for some spontaneity and just that balance that you touched on it and bread as well is just that kind of balancing the health span and lifespan yes like live kind of a perfect life forever but also enjoying that along the way too is finding that that moderation and that balance so because maybe there's more moments of joy that come from like things that might not be part of the program I had this immediate visceral reaction which was no and I think it's um I have a issue with authority that has uh served me well and not well over the course of my life so just the thought of something telling me what to do I just I don't think I could ever opt into that and I think um yeah when I kind of double clicked into to that I
6:08 think there's part like I think the high highs and the low lows are a part of the human existence and maybe my algorithm would do that for me already but there's this sense of like I don't know just like Free Will and just choice of like I want to make my own bad decisions that I think ties to my happiness uh that it would just be it would be hard for me to let go of and enjoying that range of you know having those lows like you said of you know let's say that on the life is on a scale of 1 to 10 and you experience these ones and twos also you know when you experience these eights and nines those eights and nines are that much better and you also feel those ones and twos that much more but if you only live range Bound in a let's say a 4 to six then it's it might not be as enjoyable or meaningful or purposeful so there's
6:55 also a lot of learning in the mistakes that I've made and I've a lot of my growth personal growth but also even in the art film that I'm involved in happen in mistakes I don't know if I want to live a perfect life I want to be super healthy though by the way I just don't know if I want to live a perfect life yeah I'm like a big rule follower so I love to have like the rules and then I'm like okay but then maybe I'll have a night off tonight just but like maybe knowing who I am I would really enjoy it and be like oh then I'm really super happy doing that following those rules the thing you know from this is you say yes to the algorithm if you say yes you say you guys this is the best I have ever felt
7:43 mentally and spiritually and physically never felt better and emotionally yes yes yeah that's the only thing you know outside of that you don't know are you surfing are you doing Serendipity you don't know anything about what you will or won't do mhm you don't know if you'll be separated from your family you don't know see I can't do that yeah yeah for that all to happen I'd have to be separated from my in-laws for sure yeah true peace there's a formula the distance away from maybe I would say yes for the possibility based upon these
8:31 observations what do you say are you a yes or are you a no I'm a no I'm a no yeah I would still hold at a at a no yeah Randa wants the yes I know I really I know and for the sake of being oppositional I say yes like yeah I want to be the happiest person on planet Earth with spiritual enlightenment with an algorithm that figures it out for me sure I think I also have this confidence that I'll just be able to do it better than the algorithm which I know is against the rules but I think that ties back to my issue with authority so I'm just I'm sensing my own um yeah yeah so it's hard to accept that given that conflict how do you resolve it in your mind to make a yes or no conclusion I think I still I choose myself over the
9:19 unknown and so I still I'm still a no yeah even though you're telling me it should be a yes no there or even though the that that that's ultimately what we're all trying to to do so that's I think the and Achieve like that is I think the Crux of so much of human existence and so yeah is there no middle ground here uh Anthony did you say where you're live I'm still a yes yes we have we have two yeses and uh talas did you say yes or no I'd say yes I like to think of a parallel like we have Google Maps and so most of us if we want to get to a destination we wouldn't pull out a map
10:05 and figure it out we would just put in the coordinates and we would let the map do it so in a way our lives are already run by algorithms I love using Google Maps yeah exactly like we we could we wouldn't imagine using a physical map even when I know where I'm going I still put it in even though you know where you're going yes also you know there might be an accident that you're unaware of like when we coming back from Malibu there's a big accident after Surf and you're like oh I should have probably even though I knew how to get home I probably should have typed it into Google algorithms are amazing amazing data is amazing yeah and so I think that I would I know that algorithms are better than me and so I know I'd rather give if I'm promised the best physical mental and spiritual health of my life then I would
10:51 unquestionably say yes because I know the algorithms can do it better than me especially if the algorithm is is based upon all your metrics yeah so so if it's like pulling your your AA scores if it's pulling your inside tracker and your blood and there's no way a human could triangulate all those data points and make their own it's like you can but it would take you years with a lot of experts whereas the algorithm could do this for you in a second and I think that's what's interesting yep I'm 90% there I'm coming around now I just see as a bad mie though I see as some all saying yes and then we see what happens with algorithms yeah so three s's uh we have four four nose and
11:40 one 90% 90% can I just you want to round up well what if my family says yes too if my if my family says yes then I'll say yes yeah yeah yeah then we'll all be doing it together that'll be fun right okay that's my choice okay okay I'm in if there three yeses four Nos and one depends yeah okay okay all right thought experiment number two is imagine that whatever form of intelligence that exists in the 25th Century just watched a video of this conversation okay that's a few hundred years into the
12:25 future and they're listening to your opinions and they're assessing your characteristics of intelligence and your morals and your ethics and your values how you understand the world how you frame reality What observations do they make what do they say about you and your responses she's a family orientated lady who loves Health that's what I get and it's a technology it's not like a conscious being that's observing yeah just uh so just make your best guess like if we say um if we just imagine Society is progressing right now at a pretty fast pace of change uh at a
13:12 change at a pace of change that is mostly unfathomable to our current mind it's like looking back at the 1600s to now and how much Chang has happened then even though it's a lot it's probably on the order of like substantially more and so it's beyond our ability to comprehend who they are what they're like like but just imagine they have some kind of distant vantage point where there's they yeah just like where we would observe a caveman and we would make observations about their way of being and how they you when they didn't have modern technology or even language so what do you think they would just say J like what are the observations they say like how what are we as a species right now in this moment I think it's pretty scary if you think about the rate of advancement in uh 20 in the 25th Century
13:57 and how like for example where where AI will be yeah it's I think it would look back and it would really think us we' it'd be really cute like our how naive we are right now because everything will be so optimized that the the fact that we're even predicting the uncertainty I think it would be it would be interesting in a world a couple hundred years from now with how much more advanced it would be yeah that's my immediate reaction as well is I can't fathom what it will be like to be living a couple hundred years from now I just think and then I my second reaction was I will still be here yeah yeah but I think um yeah I think we'll look back on this conversation with like
14:44 some parallel to looking back on like a pre- internet time or like it's not possible to Fathom what it what we as a species an augmented species are capable of um but I think I think that's I don't know I reflected that maybe that's a limitation of my own mind to not be able to fully accept that right now um but but yeah hard hard to comprehend is um where my head went I think I have to agree with you in terms of the limiting factor like I feel like us as a species in general we limit ourselves in what we think is possible and then say it can't be but we are own limiting factors you know and I feel like we're going to look back and be like how do we think that this
15:29 that we couldn't achieve this it's because we said we couldn't you know and yeah I think they're going to giggle at how limiting we are that we didn't trust an algorithm to give us our you know our ability to do whatever we need to do like Google Maps why didn't they realize they could do it with their with their own bodies right but no we said we want our autonomy and our freedom but we can have freedom and autonomy within that too yeah yeah they might be envy of envious of us uh just because everything is you know they might be like wow they live such a simple life and at we live in such a fascinating time of like we're pioneering in an inventive time right now that we can are discovering so many new things at once that in 400 years everything might be so precise and efficient that there's kind of not much
16:16 room left to discover new things and so I I feel like we do live in a very incredible time right now that we can we're always kind of playing with different things like you said like how can we live forever like the the fact that that's not even a thing yet in 400 years everyone's like yeah of course like we all live forever it's not a big deal but um you know it's yeah it's it's interesting for sure yeah well I mean just you know makes me think of something I'm working on right now is more like simplifying more than I think there's just so much data coming at us and I'm kind of we at human beings supposed to be inputting this much and just kind of and make maybe if just sometimes I think in a day it's just three good decisions in a day can really help drive a lot of uh interesting things instead of trying to do 500
17:03 things so I sometimes feel it's like gosh there's now there's going to be such evolvement coming up but at the same point I know I'm really working on also trying to really simplify and kind of like slow it down and not look at too much maybe very specific but you know my interest but not getting too clouded with too much data I find it almost impossible to make any predictions it seems like humans are are historically bad at making predictions we're typically blinded by our modern day cultural and social norms so trying to extrapolate even a couple decades from now seems very difficult so 500 years seems like something that no one is ented enough to
17:50 say okay so that's that concludes uh thought experiment number two and so if we retrace our steps and where we've been the first question is is meant to be provocative and it's meant to create uncertainty so you're given a binary Choice do you say yes or do you say no and you have highly imperfect information right you don't know and so it creates a space of Unknowing right so you you immediately imagine can I still feel happy or sad or depressed can I still make my art can I still surf can I still do highs and lows do I still have the autonomy to this and that and if you notice in most of your thought patterns in that Unown KN space you filled the Gap with assumptions so the information was not present in the question right but you
18:36 filled it in to say I wouldn't because of the following reasons and what you also did is you went into your mind and so you had to deal with this complicated question you went to your mind you're like hey mind how do I understand reality some of you said well autonomy like autonomy is my is my model of reality like that's how I understand my existence and if I don't have autonomy I'm not quite sure why I exist but autonomy is just simply a social cultural construct right there's many different ways to understand reality some of you went to I want to have an optimized life or I want to create art but the point is you as a human you've developed an understand of models of reality and you just chose one you could have chose many you chose one and said here's my model of reality and here's how I'm going to solve this complicated question and you gave you rationale for it question number two sits in STK
19:23 contrast to that because it it reminds us that we look back at previous generations and we're often times pretty harsh in our judgment we think they're pretty primitive with their decision- making we think that they're pretty Antiquated we can't understand why they didn't understand certain things and if you go back further in time it gets even more and more right where uh and so by going to the 20th century it's such a big jump in time that it almost makes us look like cavemen right if you look at just make a reasonable estimation of how things will progress we're so far away from that uh that they would look at us all all our practices and probably just say like oh that's that's kind of cute Homo sapiens are doing that now it could be different but it gives enough of a contrast where we become more humble in our opinions of ourselves and we see like uh maybe I'm not as confident as I
20:11 was in my in my uh opinion so the first two thought experiments are meant to contrast our knowing and our not knowing and how we as humans our superpower is a knowing we learn things and we make decisive actions but sometimes that knowing walk us into a situation where no not not knowing is actually the more correct answer but we're blinded to not knowing okay that's number two that's the first phase all right next phase so when I look out when I zoom out on planet Earth and I try to quiet everything going on I just all the daily rustle and bustle of drama and politics and like family and personal stuff zoom out on planet Earth and say like what is
20:57 really happening on on this planet in this part of the Galaxy I think there's really only one thing happening and it's the we're giving birth to Super intelligence nothing is going to be more consequential than the development of this new form of intelligence that will eventually you know possibly exceed Us in all things now in this situation it is a complicated uh matter because when you give birth to Super intelligence of course every human and every group of humans wants to use it for their objectives some people want to use it for war some people want to use it for gaining social media followers some people want to use it for making money some want to use it for ideological movements but everybody has different objectives on what they want to do and it creates some degree of
21:42 risk you know there's concern that AI may go off the rails and be bad uh there's concern that c certain countries would get it and do bad things there's concerns people may even get it and then get access to you know more dangerous weapons like there's all kinds of concerns like what happens when you have this really new powerful thing in the world and right now we're trying to sort out like how do countries behave with each other do we regulate it at a state level do you open source it do you build a close Source how do you do you limit users abilities like we have all these questions emerging what do you do as a species when you're giving birth to Super intelligence so let me pose this question to you imagine we are together as a group we are mapping out a practical plan on what we do as a species okay as you birth of superintelligence now this is is not
22:28 ought statements like we ought to our statements need to be we're going to do right so that means we're going to call our friends we're going to call friends of friends we're going to put together a plan what do we do to make sure that I guess to increase our probability that we survive this moment and Thrive like what what do we do as like as a group I just want to make sure or or as a planet are you talking like big picture are you talking about us in this room yeah as a species like so yeah so we're going to formulate a plan of what we go out in the world and do together so there been no plans made yet just to be clear like is that what you're saying yeah so I mean currently this my plan yeah like it's kind of this emergent thing in the world where it's happening real time and it's happening Under the
23:14 Umbrella of democracy in the US is happening a different way in China it's happening a different way in Israel uh right there's open source models and there's close Source models there's like so it's this like a mergent system that people are just doing throughout the world through the various economic Poli social moral ethical systems of our time and place M so what do we do what do we do what do we do with all these emergent Tech AI Technologies I think you have to set like a rule book A playbook of what AI is allowed to do and if it doesn't adhere to that it has to be thwarted keeping making sure it's not destructive yeah so if it becomes violent like I mean everyone talks about it but but if the basic answer is AI is
24:00 like how do you become the richest man in the world you can't kill everybody else then it's like you're you have to have a Playbook of saying AI can't like cause humans death or harm right and I think also it can't be weaponized in any way by any individual or or country to dominate resources uh or come up with technologies that can then also enslave other people or dominate other people so I think there has to be a rule book and there has to be an actual way to turn off this super intelligence it could be an EMP pulse around the whole planet whatever it is but there has to be like a like a like a backup I think but other than that it's going to happen no matter what so there
24:45 is no stopping it so it's just about creating not just etiquette but awareness and then yeah Playbook yeah yeah I know that's what I think okay thank you it feels like um I mean the the ideal thing to do would be to regulate I know China was being able to like Watermark images to say that this was created with with AI but I mean at this point it's already the I think the cat's out of the bag it's already out there it's already evolved we have to hope that we have the right people in the right places to help help navigate what's going to happen because it's certainly going to what we're not expecting is what's going to happen I just talked to an AI guy recently who's like works for nativia is that the Nidia Nidia and what he was telling me is like
25:32 how AI works is just it's it it learns just like us right like it the way that a child learns is the way that AI learns and it just learns faster because you can process things faster and it's just like it is if you look at Evolution it seems to appear to be like the next species right and like we so desperately want to control things as Humanity right especially so that it doesn't harm us but at the same time Evolution has to go through its process and harm is sometimes the way that things happen so I mean it's not that I'm I'm voting for harm but I also voting for like allowing it to learn also because I feel like if we give it its ability and its freedom that we all want ourselves to learn then it hopefully will bring the best results
26:19 it feels dangerous to have hope as a strategy though you have hope as a strategy and you have hope as a strategy that feels kind of tenuous not to criticize your yeah you can criticize it I mean I'm just just throwing out thoughts right now but like I mean what else is there I mean cuz if we put a Playbook that's going to be destroyed in two seconds anyway it is its own being and thing and it's almost like we kind of have to like I mean and I love AI I think AI is one of the most exciting things and also it's scary as [ __ ] you know all at the same time but it still needs like electricity it needs chips it needs like Silicon you know it needs it needs Hardware that for it to run it's not an actual organic being right so we're still in control of its to a certainity
27:05 yeah its existence you know but well I think it kind of you know to me I just really hope that ex there will be dramatic changes around the world so you know Although our United States systems flawed I do think we still at the underlying have the kind of the best Democratic Society in the world so I think it's that much more important for us to become a leader in you know in this and kind of for there's obviously other regimes and things out there don't really with North Korea we want with their value systems to kind of be have a lot more control over the world order or things that effect and that's just kind of want to make sure the right leadership and that we stay at the Forefront to just really you know protect ourselves and I think broadly you know could could help protect a lot of other societies things as well as well if it kind of gets to that but I
27:51 think we got to you know we got to keep a strong leadership position as this progresses I just feel like it's a little too late isn't it to put any parameters around it cuz it's already infiltrated our lives so it's hard to have that conversation because it's ready yeah we passed that point yeah to a certain extent like you were saying obviously we could pull the power but we're all using power every day we too yeah it's just impossible to imagine where we'll be in the future and so therefore it's hard to come up with a
28:38 strategy now I think personally I've tried to take a very optimistic stance and I think that that helps me in my little um continue on a a day-to-day basis but yeah I I think anytime you talk about regulation I think doing that on a global level is just uh very challenging and if it's in one and it has really unintended consequences too I think in terms of innovation or having too much power to a particular model so I think every I think every argument that we are capable of making has its its downsides that again like looking back on this conversation I think it it would um yeah we just we
29:24 have no idea how to to Fathom it yeah I still go back to what you said Mike is just you you put a playbook in in hand to at least set some some guidelines and some some bumpers um but I think that'll it is kind of we're too far along to try to guide in a certain way or completely shut it down or you know I think I would say open source is is how it's going to play out and there is going to be some harm uh along the way but overall uh I think that humanity is uh net good um but yeah some you know some people may get you know harmed along the way but um overall yeah you could you know put some protocols in place and some regulation um that you
30:11 know not to cause harm to humans but I think we're already uh it's AI is inevitable so we're no longer in charge and if we're all wiped out we don't have to worry about it anyways we're all going to be gone that's true that's true that's true no we're not except except for Brian of course under the sea he's got a bunker New Zealand very honest great thing is is that there's so much efficiency if you do use it for good AI can be super efficient and a fun creative tool too I find that spending time thinking about this while I I'm trying to be optimistic but it actually is quite scary to think
30:57 about the like exactly where we are today and I know many people spend their careers and lives and and current day-to-day thinking about just this I think I'm focused on a different set of of problems that AI is actually amazing for on a day-to-day basis and I think deeply thinking about this question from a species and evolution perspective is um yeah uh hard yeah okay so if we pattern match this to where we were in the first two questions in the thought experiments we did this question pattern matched number one right it's a question that has a lot of uncertainty it's unbounded in its uncertainties and so you each did the
31:43 same thing you did before which is you searched your mind and you said how do I understand reality and then you identified one of those models and you applied it to the question you know whether it was democracy or whether it was like Humanity general you know humanity is good or whether it's like we think leaders are important or we think you basically chose a model if you notice that nobody here said we don't know so this is again where the that hides in plain sight where these questions come up and we're up against the limitations of our own knowledge so the question is do we know what to do and uh revisiting that assumption and so if you if we look at a few moments in time let's imagine in the 1870s and
32:29 there's a new idea proposed that it's actually microscopic objects called bacteria that are the source of infection that's a wild idea like things beyond the resolution of the eye are the source of infection now even if you're early to say I think this is actually a good idea I think it's actually a legitimate idea I think these bacteria are real I think they do cause infection and it does make sense that you know if a doctor is washing their hands in between uh surgeries then increases patient outcomes of survival now in that moment if you say okay what is the best protocol for Hygiene for the world what if the if if the bacteria exists now what like what does that mean now of course that's an entire science that's developed right that pertains not just to hygiene but to all other aspects of
33:15 society now the same concept is true now as in that moment you wouldn't have known and over time systems built as knowledge builds we learn like this and that we improve the system here and there but it's a process where now we have a pretty good idea and like where these things how they work so if we're giving birth to Ai and we just now understand it's n abilities they can do this and that and we try to model out the ability the first thing that would be important to acknowledge is we are up against a wall of uncertainty we don't know how it's going to evolve we don't know what it's going to do we don't know what it's going to do on certain time frames we don't know if we can turn it off we don't know if it's going to uh like we have no idea what's going to happen so we're up against a wall of fog now in this moment this pressure tests our ability to know and not know and
34:00 when you go in knowing it blinds you that you may not know and so I want to propose something that in this moment in this most important moment in the history of the human race we actually don't know what to do and that no existing form of human thought actually solves a problem that no for example take democracy as a form of governance can we say democracy solve this I don't think it solved it you know not all the world is democratic there's other forms of of uh political systems if we say Okay capitalism you certainly going to solve this probably unlikely we say Okay um Christianity step in and help us out Islam pull up you know like take any
34:48 social moral ideological religious construct and apply it like does it actually solve the question I don't think anything does so it could be the case as a species we we are giving birth to a new form of intelligence that is foreign and alien and that no existing form of human thought is its equal in giving birth so we have an opening of what could that be so like I'd like to propose to you that that opening is don't die that don't die is the philosophical economic political moral ethical and social framework that actually is equal to this moment and it's really simple it basically says don't die is the most played game
35:37 by every human on this planet every second of every day it is our zeroth order priority every few seconds we're taking in air right the majority a substantial portion of our bi body is ensuring we don't die whether it's killing cancer cells or whether it's getting enough air whether we're trying to navigate obstacles but we're trying to not die constantly now once you're not dead dead you can do amazing things like create art and go surfing and right create new skincare products like you can do amazing things in the world but you have to not be dead to do those things and with that is the only thing the singular thing the human race agrees upon there's nothing that this human race agrees to agrees with each other on except for that single concept which is we don't want to die right now now if
36:24 you say do you want to die in 5 years we fracture right into many different ways like some people want to be alive in five years some people don't some people will spin up their certain philosophies but very like there's a very small number of people who actually want to die right now so if you build upon that concept say great we've got a starting point there's actually something we do agree upon that that spans all political systems all economic systems all social morals ethical Frameworks and then if you say okay what would this look like roughly as a as a draft it's don't die individually don't kill each other which what you were saying uh don't kill the planet and align AI with the objective function of don't die that when you're giving birth to a
37:10 form of intelligence that mirrors the abilities of Godlike entities which we've imagined throughout the history of the human race that has you know these this expansive abilities existence becomes the highest virtue not making money not achieving status not achieving power existence that's what it would want just to remain alive and so that's a starting point for as a species if we are sober enough to recognize In This Moment how consequential this moment is and we're practical enough to say we kind of need to put some thought into this we can either say all right world like youve got you have your systems of democracy and capitalism socialism and like you'll
37:56 sort it out your religion or we can say I don't know about that path there may be another path so I'll stop there what you guys think about this as an initial hypothesis I mean don't die as a way of saying how we're going to approach AI specifically in like that context it feels like we should be putting a lot of our energy into figuring how to make AI help us not die and have ai be instrumental in medicine and you know like if it can do all your panels and look at all your markers and be able to diagnose something with a lot of accuracy where a doctor might have a bias or whatever that feels like a very good use of AI is just you know I think
38:43 I don't know I don't know how to else to answer other than that you know just we put our energy into that yeah I mean not only to just don't die is to how to live optimally MH because what's you know living if you're just you know in a little bubble or whatever it is um so if by chance you know us as humans if you have an experience and you end up you know dying at least you know that you put these certain systems in place to live the most optimally with that time that you have to spend it more with your family or with close friends or have interesting conversations like we're having now so I would just yeah add on that from just that little you
39:29 know perspective the the one challenge with that is there's perhaps been more murder committed over how to live optimally than any other question in existence H how yeah you mean like through religious wars and stuff or you mean I mean what are people dis what are people disagreeing upon fundamentally resources ideas right Vengeance it it's basically it's humans disagreeing on what existence is about and what their goal should be and so don't die is so this is the question that when you're in a luxurious state of I have uh I have life I have health you can choose to spend your time any way you want and people all over the world do that every day you can be
40:16 religious you can be political you can be economic you can you can do all your decisions but you basically have billions of competing decisions on what to do now when humans have conflict of what to do we typically resort to violence and try to sort that and so don't die as a contemplation to say we're actually in this incredible state of urgency as a species it's not quite clear that things are okay right now in the world like we have several potential existential threats you may say not a big deal like we've survived nuclear weapons for 60 years we got this you could also take the other side be like kind of scary that we have our fingers on these nuke buttons and many you know the the climate's changing so you might say honestly fine I don't know it could
41:02 be a little dicey so we have our hands full with some potential risks that we may not we may underestimated and so if you remember in March of 2020 when Co hit do you remember how ferocious the world's response was M everybody's plans got cancelled everyone's business meetings everyone's personal Endeavors you couldn't get surgery for a cancer like everything you couldn't leave the country you couldn't leave country you couldn't even leave your home your home yeah and so that's how bad humans don't want to die right so in context but we forget about this we forget how badly we don't want to die and so the question for this is as a species is the move for us to say what's the best life for all of us or is the move to say This Moment's kind of
41:49 serious potentially the most serious in our entire history and kind of determining the future of intelligent existence in this part of the Galaxy do we we need some kind of original thought in this moment that we're coming back down to say all right we legit have one thing in our our to-do list which is don't die now once you secure don't die right you can do all the wonderful things with existence you want to do but this is the contemplation is where we at and right now we are very much in the state of of Affairs of choose your best life that's what status quo is so it presses on that question don't die feels a little negative instead what about let's live feels a little more uplifting yeah without like you without causing
42:35 harm to to someone else without the fear like let's not let's live because we are enjoying the moment and people that we're with instead of don't die cuz it feel a little restrictive yeah the challenge with let's live let's live is you can't measure it with yeah it's more subjective like how to live optimally as compared to Binary either you're alive or you're not and and don't die exactly so exactly either your heart's beating and your brain is active and you have conscious thought or you don't now you take this all the way down to physics right you're now in the second law of Thermodynamics of looking at entropy so don't die is not just a cute narrative about how humans string words together for something fun it is dealing with
43:22 fundamental physics and the mathematics of life but don't all systems tend to fall to entropy at some point exactly it's like so you're saying use AI to figure out how to thwart entr entropy exactly I'm saying like when when you basically when you're giving birth to God Godlike abilities MH that Godlike ability would like look at the universe and say the I'm calculating the total energy in the universe that could give rise to life like that I could use for my objectives to be life and then you simply just want what what you want there is to avoid existence from ending but you want to assess like what resources do you have to work with and yes like uh over a certain duration of time the universe runs out of energy and it's all just dark and quiet but we have
44:08 a long time before that happens so until then so it makes sense that as a species where when death is inevitable when you're going to die it's like you YOLO your way to your decision making you're going to say well if I'm going to die anyways I might as well live my best life or have the right this or you know F these kind of emotions uh but when you're at this critical stage of evolution it's an invitation that all of our existing ideas about reality are no longer true all of our preferences all of our Norms all of our imaginations all the social cultural things we've learned about existence they're no they're Antiquated they would be laughable from the 21th century perspective they'd say like they were so fixated on that moment they couldn't see this this new emergent thing and that's the imitation and so
44:54 the the reason why I taken it to physics and math is important is because it's a language that AI can speak right AI is fundamentally math it's it's fundamentally majri multiplication it's fundamentally a language that it can exist in so you're Bridging the world of human narrative with mathematics and physics and it kind of brings all things together in some kind of comprehensive um framework that intelligence can cooperate upon so do you define not dying as this physical form this heart these lungs blah blah blah BL blah or is don't die and this is where it can get tricky also AI figuring out how to upload your Consciousness into a system where you don't actually need a body but then it still views you as alive because
45:40 your Consciousness is still computating there's still thought processes within an environment that's just not your body so it's like are you saying don't die as in your exact form right now you know yeah or is it esoteric and it's in this conscious form that's in silicone or Crystal or you know what I mean yeah no one knows so it'd be like in germ Theory it be like okay so if this is the basic principle what do we do with it would we ever swallow it or we want do we want to kill all of it or good or bad get something yeah like but what if you feel that your Soul's Eternal so it doesn't necessarily matter if I die today or tomorrow however while I'm here I want to live the most fulfilled yeah time in the healthiest
46:28 form yeah that I'm in so the beauty about don't die is that most ideologies in the world are no but right they say we are correct and you are wrong and you need to adhere to my lifestyle or my my system my political system or my economic system or my religious framework don't die says great like if you believe your Soul's Eternal and you believe there's an afterlife wonderful still you don't want to die right now right so that's how the world has the world you want to be I want to be as healthy as I can't until the moment that I die yeah so every uh like very few religious people who believe in an afterlife actually want to die right now you know like Humanity has solved this idea that it's like um even though we don't have evidence for an afterlife we don't know if it exists or not but
47:14 humans have constructed many stories of like there's this kind of heaven and that kind of thing and so humans believe that it's great and you can believe that excuse me that and don't die at the same time they're not in Conflict this is why it's so productive is that don't die is minimizing risk of violence and War you're trying to you trying to get a system that says like let's devise the a way where the fewest vectors for death and violence can happen now this is still like even if you say yes to don't die immediately you have all kinds of ethical like you have complications if you have $1 for don't die who get a $1 so you immediately have problems like right after the bat so it's not that it's just like this Utopia problem solving but it's directionally it's
47:59 correct but if we're continually giving birth then how are we going to the human population support everyone not dying yeah and resources don't die doesn't solve all outstanding questions it just simply says just a good question to yeah in this moment as it like so the first thought experiment was basically to say like we as a species we know a lot of things and sometimes we take our knowing a bit too far second thought experiment says not knowing is actually an incredibly powerful form of intelligence in fact wisdom right now in the 2024 may be those who realize that not knowing is the highest degree of intelligence that a human can occupy it's no longer knowing yeah because knowing uh
48:44 basically people liit you right they who apply their models now given that we can't model the world out people who robustly know and predict are actually demonstrating their ignorance or think they know they think they know might not know but they think they know and then they're limiting their their thoughts so this is the biggest shift of human intelligence is uh we've always imagined the highest intellect is knowing that's who we respect and we we defer to this is one of a unique time where not knowing quickly moves into the more powerful position where by acknowledging that you open your mind up to say there may be different ways to model reality than what I'm accustomed to and so don't die is basically that to say the intelligence is to know that literally I want one thing right now is to not die
49:29 MH do you think algorithms will have the potential to understand loving as opposed to just don't die being like a you know an equation like how do I just not you know but is there an actual like place for for the heart yeah for the concept of Love within this algorithmic and not like a mimicked version of love but like a feeling you know the data I like on this is that every time a human has made a prediction AI can't do something M it's AI does that thing like just consistently and so I look at that and I think it's reasonable to imagine it will do all things yeah so Brian just to like sum up what you're saying is if we had our our our
50:17 whole like one question or one Quest that we're all looking at is do not die we would unite as humanity and as AI is kind of what you're hying exactly so like practically what this means and why we did the bioage testing tonight is so over the past four years when so um I ask that question like is the craziest question in existence right now are we the first generation to not die and then if you say what does that look like I've tried to become the most don't die person in human history what does that look like so if you say on a daily basis every one of us dies a little bit right we age and then there are things that accelerate the aging process if I breathe breathe polluted air I die a little faster if I eat junk food I die a
51:02 little faster if I eat fried food I die a if I sleep poorly I die a little faster so we try to isolate and say what are all the things that increase the rate of death and the progression of disease and we tried to stop all those things or minimize those things and then we said what are all the ways I've already died being a 43y old person and how do you reverse the aging damage now in doing this we've achieved the best health markers of anybody on planet Earth in four years time to show that you can go through a systematic process of measuring Dy and so when you came in you saw the air quality we have water quality we did bio tests you had your Foods tested Foods so you're seeing this at play and so it makes sense that when people look
51:48 at me right now they say that guy's really weird like he really should spend more time doing blank and blank what they're doing are applying their current 2024 model of reality and I'm different than that reality but they don't realize that what I'm trying to demonstrate is a new model of existence that doesn't exist yet M where you would do anything just to secure existence because the the play Space like if we can get past this moment of not destroying ourselves if we can get past this moment to stabilize AI to some degree whatever that means the play space for for us may be a million times bigger than what it is right now if you like zoom out and you say okay there's two basic ideas on why is there not intelligent existence in this part
52:33 of the why can't we detect intelligent existence um so the Dark Forest Theory says that when a when a civilization becomes sufficiently intelligent it immediately hides itself it doesn't want to be threatened by other civilizations are intelligent the other argument is the great filter argument which is when civilizations reach a certain point of technological Advance they kill themselves they can't punch through and so whether those are like two general approximations I how to think about it whether they whether there are civilizations that have punched through and now they just hide themselves or whether all civil whether there's been other civilizations like us yeah they get to a certain point and we know this like from our experiences our willingness to destroy ourselves and each other and the planet right like it's like we right like we have these
53:21 Tendencies yeah and so we can see a scenario where we oh just have a french fry exactly we blow it going to hurt we blow it I'm going to live in the moment so could we like on a galactic scale uh is it possible that we are potentially one of the first intelligent civilizations ever that has the opportunity to punch through and when others Reach This stage they don't identify that their existing systems which were built when they were much more primitive didn't map to when they became on the verge of giving birth to Super intelligence of whatever form that is and that could this could be the defining moment for us as the species we actually get this right and punch through and make this transition do you think all species let's say hypothetically from any other planet will always follow this Destiny path of
54:09 creating super intelligence do you think it's like in The evolutionary Playbook that that's the it's like a butterfly thing like we're creating you know what I mean or do you think we're unique in that yes there's um there's many really interesting theories on whether all these systems are identical there's really great arguments so I I don't know but there's interesting arguments that these systems are Universal they play throughout the Galaxy that were made of the same matter I don't know but it's it's um it's a great it's a really fun thought experiment yeah it's interesting yeah I think it's interesting it's a super interesting thought process and I think I've always found it super interesting to look at the startup ecosystem and realize the very limited number of people of entrepreneurs that
54:55 choose to spend their time on death uh it's just it's a very small subset of people that want to wake up every day and think about human existence and so as you were talking um I I think this movement around longevity and it being something positive is is such a different Spin and we on look of extending existence is a really interesting way of looking at things but actually doing the work around that having uh a handful of highly motivated individuals to be to combine with this uh kind of you know super superhuman ability I I think it it places society as at a really interesting position both from I mean from the intersection of so many things but also just from I think a big part of human existence is not
55:41 wanting to Grapple with this question on a a day-to-day basis so it's it's interesting yeah Brian I would love to get your perspective on this so let's say um really it's like at what point is a human a human mhm um if a woman was carrying a child and I mean I don't want to get too controversial here but I may want if a woman was carrying a child and and her life was in Jeopardy right um and she could either you know let's say she sa want to sacrifice her life in order for her child to live or if her life was in
56:26 Jeopardy and that would mean that that would be the end of the child's life I mean I don't want anybody to feel like they have to answer that question but that's a just in terms of life and death in terms of sacrificing your life for another or taking the life of another in order for you to to live on um as a mother I would definitely want to my children to live I would be like that's F I'll be like take me because our biological like it is not to die but are also biological purpose why we're on planet Earth is to reproduce to Next Generation to live on yes like there's no question and being a mom yeah do anything to make sure that your offspring does not die yeah yeah yeah I'm like take me don't take them
57:14 yeah yeah so one way you can think about this is like um when the US was 13 colonies and they said we you know the Monarch the British monarch is doing an okay job we think we can do a better job we think by voting in our own representatives and having our own tax code and making decisions we're going to be better than the monarch and so they adopted a new framework of governance democracy now in that moment they didn't have all the questions answered they didn't know how they're going to solve Federal rights and state rights how they're going to solve who gets to vote and when you know they had slavery to solve like there was all these complicated questions to solve and it wasn't that they just said we know what to do they just said we're going to directionally point there if we're going to become a system of this Democratic
58:01 Rule and so it's now taking us over 200 plus years we're still fighting like what is a Democratic Society and so the same is true with don't die right there's relevant don't die ethics and this is one like you know if if a if a mother is if her life is in danger right many people going to express the opinion that Miranda said which is great like that's that's a new ethical framework working within don't die so it's not necessarily critical that we solve those because those are basically unsolvable problems as it relates to a person's decision- making but it's trying to point in a direction to say yes we have a lot of complexity in our hands totally agree also like what we're doing now may not be adequate and we do want to point ourselves with this new system of being and we get working on that so just as a
58:46 species it's like practically like you could imagine don't I very easily implemented into society so like this conversation you can see it took us about an hour to arrive here where where you're just barely open to this new idea but you're still swirling with all your thoughts right it's very complicated and you're mapping old old ideas onto new ideas and creates all this internal tension so let me give you some practical ways where it could just easily flow into society so I based upon what I've been doing don't die uh we measuring all my biomarkers we're quantifying that now you can bridge that to something tangible like smoking a cigarette cost someone 11 minutes of Life on average there's variance according to person genetics like some people can smoke all their life and not die it's like there's variant but generally speaking 11 minutes of life to
59:31 smoke a cigarette now let's take that same principle and say let's score a school lunch of a child in America okay so let's say they and you're you're a school teacher so they're eating pizza and chocolate milk and a plastic line container Dr process exactly yeah so we can assign we can do some approximations on what is a die score so the child eats that we are feeding our kids die MH now you can change that's why in the system of the schools this is where this should start exactly so that is so practical we understand it's one thing where if you say um hey so and so like smoking is not good for you they'll say [ __ ] off I like to smoke and I'm living my best life I'm going to live how I want to if you say
1:00:17 we're feeding our kids die nobody it's very hard to you know really encourage that so that's something that's very practical right you can also say can a politician can try to earn uh office by saying my district has the best health markers because the changes we've made to air quality and water quality and Community Health Services and our our availability of clean foods and tested Foods so they can campaign on the idea of life so it doesn't have to be don't die and the only reason why I go back to don't die is it just needs to be mathematically correct it needs to be based upon physics yeah otherwise it's too fragile of an idea yes so but otherwise you know as the world the world doesn't need to understand the
1:01:03 philosophy they don't need to go through the thought experiment of knowing and not knowing they don't need to assess whether systems are good or bad they just want to look and feel and be their best they can adhere to the don't die Philosophy by doing what they do today and so this is really an attempt to say changing societal systems this is not asking individuals to be superhuman in their discipline this is to say as a species we lock into to build that and so you could basically take what I've done with my body so we measure the biological age of all my organs we apply the scientific evidence we look at data you do the same thing with planet Earth so now you measure Earth with a billion data points you say okay what is actually a biosphere that supports humans on the planet it's an emergent science right what is an appropriate
1:01:49 coral reef environment what is the appropriate marine environment what kind of toxins are okay in our food supply chain how much pollution should be in the air you can quantify some things and as you get out further and further there's you know less certainty but you can basically approach Earth as a scientific experiment where we say we are going to make earth a sustainable safe place for us because the problem right now is that we treat planet Earth the same way we treat our bodies that relationship is identical so do you think we start with food and then get people caring about their own bodies first and then it starts to go big picture into the planet like what do you think is the easiest maybe easy is the wrong word but just like most appropriate like yeah thing to to to go
1:02:35 at children are what really are the future obviously right like they're the ones that are Paving the way so starting with children learning that way because they're not educated that's why they're not doing better if they're not educated like I talk to my kids all the time so then you're saying thing we should like yeah education I would say cuz when you're educated and you know better then you do better but if you're uneducated you're just living blindly and you don't even realize the damage you're doing you're like oh this cupcake tastes delicious and just to go on everything that you're saying is like if we learn how to get kids to use data to drive their own decisions they get to make those decisions for themselves but we also have to have systems in place for that
1:03:22 data to evenu yeah like when like when when Miranda is buying food for her family MH she's not going to be able to see the third party lab results right of every single thing so Miranda needs to have confidence that she's going to buy food from a system right that is producing uh the fewest number of contaminants possible so ironically I've actually tested a lot of the food that we have so you you've seen the same thing I have which is just like it's like a lot of lead cadmium um there's Mercury yes like in food that you think is healthy and organic and that people are buying in these health food stores exactly right they're not right what they say they are that is so accurate
1:04:07 and a lot of the time even these companies don't realize I mean I just came back from India and India is better off solving its air quality than it is curing all cancer mhm they would extend lives more and the the interesting thing was nobody wears a mask nobody has air purifiers people uh go out and run and exercise they they they are they have no Cho complet but they've completely normalized and so we when we were going
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